I realize crimp sleeves are listed for ground connections,
but I'm replacing some outlets in my '70s era house
and found that uninsulated crimp sleeves, with tape, were
used for creating pigtails at the outlets boxes.

the person removed insulation to expose copper 6" down
one wire, and crimped the other cable/wire in the box
to that.. So there are two wires in the crimp, with
one wire continuing for the pigtail.

From what I understand, uninsulated crimp sleeves
on hot/neutral (even with tape) like this isn't
an approved method. Funny looking at it, because there
are just two wires in the crimp, you can see how the wires
don't touch in some...so that the crimp sleeve would carry
the current, which is bad.

Made me think about the same issue with crimp sleeves
on ground connections. wire to wire contact isn't guaranteed
(especially with plier crimps). I would think an approved
crimp connection must need wire to wire contact (like
you get with a wire nut.


Anyone know if using crimp sleeves and tape on hot/nuetral
was common in the '70s? I'm guessing this was just the behavior
of some local electrician.

It's weird though. You would think that the ground connection
needs to be as robust as any hot/nuetral connection (for instance
it's sized to carry same currents nowadays)...so NEC must
think it's a robust connector (crimp sleeve). so theoretically
the only issue would be the taping as insulation.

-lev

"Levitation29" wrote in message
...
I realize crimp sleeves are listed for ground connections,
but I'm replacing some outlets in my '70s era house
and found that uninsulated crimp sleeves, with tape, were
used for creating pigtails at the outlets boxes.

the person removed insulation to expose copper 6" down
one wire, and crimped the other cable/wire in the box
to that.. So there are two wires in the crimp, with
one wire continuing for the pigtail.

From what I understand, uninsulated crimp sleeves
on hot/neutral (even with tape) like this isn't
an approved method. Funny looking at it, because there
are just two wires in the crimp, you can see how the wires
don't touch in some...so that the crimp sleeve would carry
the current, which is bad.

Made me think about the same issue with crimp sleeves
on ground connections. wire to wire contact isn't guaranteed
(especially with plier crimps). I would think an approved
crimp connection must need wire to wire contact (like
you get with a wire nut.


Anyone know if using crimp sleeves and tape on hot/nuetral
was common in the '70s? I'm guessing this was just the behavior
of some local electrician.

It's weird though. You would think that the ground connection
needs to be as robust as any hot/nuetral connection (for instance
it's sized to carry same currents nowadays)...so NEC must
think it's a robust connector (crimp sleeve). so theoretically
the only issue would be the taping as insulation.

-lev
Taped crimp sleeves were quite common in some areas at one time. They should
not be a problem if properly crimped and insulated but I imagine some were
installed without the proper crimper. We always securely twisted the wires
before crimping and used a special three prong crimper that crimped equally
around the sleeve.

Don Young

On May 9, 1:32 pm, Levitation29 wrote:
I realize crimp sleeves are listed for ground connections,
but I'm replacing some outlets in my '70s era house
and found that uninsulated crimp sleeves, with tape, were
used for creating pigtails at the outlets boxes.

the person removed insulation to expose copper 6" down
one wire, and crimped the other cable/wire in the box
to that.. So there are two wires in the crimp, with
one wire continuing for the pigtail.

From what I understand, uninsulated crimp sleeves
on hot/neutral (even with tape) like this isn't
an approved method. Funny looking at it, because there
are just two wires in the crimp, you can see how the wires
don't touch in some...so that the crimp sleeve would carry
the current, which is bad.

Made me think about the same issue with crimp sleeves
on ground connections. wire to wire contact isn't guaranteed
(especially with plier crimps). I would think an approved
crimp connection must need wire to wire contact (like
you get with a wire nut.

Anyone know if using crimp sleeves and tape on hot/nuetral
was common in the '70s? I'm guessing this was just the behavior
of some local electrician.

It's weird though. You would think that the ground connection
needs to be as robust as any hot/nuetral connection (for instance
it's sized to carry same currents nowadays)...so NEC must
think it's a robust connector (crimp sleeve). so theoretically
the only issue would be the taping as insulation.

-lev

common practice it is, just make sure the wires are twisted then
crimped perferably if not at least put a twist on the wires. in the
area of bare wire. ive seen these connections without a twist burn up
the wires makes a really big mess. the connections on your hot and
nuetral wires are far far more important than the ground. if they are
loose (bad) they can start a fire. a loose or bad ground might under
certain conditions might cause a shock hazard

thanks for the responses, Don and sym.
I managed to find some more info on the web.

Yeah it does sound like this was more common back in early
70's.

Evidently they're commonly known as Buchanan crimps, I guess
name of first manufacturer.

Ideal still makes them, and they are UL listed for 600v,
so since they are UL listed, NEC 110.14b would seem to
allow them even on hot/neutral even today. (with appropriate
insulation...i.e. better than the wires)

But the key is using the right crimp tool (the Ideal c-24
crimper, for instance, although it's a $50-$75 tool)

The crimps I have are only 2-points ..looks like done
with a pliers crimp tool. Evidently 4-point crimps
is what you need nowadays for a UL listed connection.

The plated steel sleeves are evidently
okay, and they have copper sleeves available also.

Ideal also makes insulating caps that fit over them so
you don't have to tape. That would make meeting the insulation rule
easy/consistent.

I think the tape issue is the one thing with the old stuff:
mechanical and electrical soundness.

So it seems like I could leave them as is, if I replace the
tape maybe. I already got rid of some, switching to using
feedthru connections on the outlets instead of pigtails.

But the original crimps there are pretty poor. Two-point crimps,
with no wire to wire contact on some. Although the connection
seems pretty solid (steel sleeve).

I'm not sure they really save space compared to compact wire
nuts...once you have appropriate insulation on them. I was thinking
I could replace them. because if I cut them off, I'm left with pretty
sure wires...they might be compact for creating new pigtails that
have better crimps.

-lev

On May 10, 12:52 am, Levitation29 wrote:
thanks for the responses, Don and sym.
I managed to find some more info on the web.

Yeah it does sound like this was more common back in early
70's.

Evidently they're commonly known as Buchanan crimps, I guess
name of first manufacturer.

Ideal still makes them, and they are UL listed for 600v,
so since they are UL listed, NEC 110.14b would seem to
allow them even on hot/neutral even today. (with appropriate
insulation...i.e. better than the wires)

But the key is using the right crimp tool (the Ideal c-24
crimper, for instance, although it's a $50-$75 tool)

The crimps I have are only 2-points ..looks like done
with a pliers crimp tool. Evidently 4-point crimps
is what you need nowadays for a UL listed connection.

The plated steel sleeves are evidently
okay, and they have copper sleeves available also.

Ideal also makes insulating caps that fit over them so
you don't have to tape. That would make meeting the insulation rule
easy/consistent.

I think the tape issue is the one thing with the old stuff:
mechanical and electrical soundness.

So it seems like I could leave them as is, if I replace the
tape maybe. I already got rid of some, switching to using
feedthru connections on the outlets instead of pigtails.

But the original crimps there are pretty poor. Two-point crimps,
with no wire to wire contact on some. Although the connection
seems pretty solid (steel sleeve).

I'm not sure they really save space compared to compact wire
nuts...once you have appropriate insulation on them. I was thinking
I could replace them. because if I cut them off, I'm left with pretty
sure wires...they might be compact for creating new pigtails that
have better crimps.

-lev

the crimp barrel itself is important buchanon crimps are soft i dont
and wont use them i will use a wirenut before a buchanon. ideal crimps
are a better way to go.