Hello:

This relates to a question i posted a while back, but was hoping someone
might have any new thoughts on this, or perhaps someone new might.

I had installed a model 0910 Kidde smoke alarm.

This is supposedly the latest and greatest ionization model, and also has
the
sealed, 10 year Li-Ion battery.

The unit is on the ceiling in an upstairs hallway, and from everything I can
tell, this is a dry, and most
normal location. No undue dust, temp., odors, etc.

Anyway, the unit would give 3 to 4 chirps every day or two, at totally
random times.
No correlation with time of day, meal cooking, etc.
Truly random.

Just 3-4 chirps, then nothing until next time, 24 to 48 hrs later.

Called Kidde, and they were nice enought to send me a new unit.
They had absolutely no idea what the 3-4 chirps might mean, or why.

The new unit is doing the same behavior.

I guess I will just find a different brand to put up, but am wondering why,
with two units, what might be happening.

- Any service history or recalls with the model 0910 ?
- Any ideas on ?

Thanks,
Bob

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:35:14 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hello:

This relates to a question i posted a while back, but was hoping someone
might have any new thoughts on this, or perhaps someone new might.

I had installed a model 0910 Kidde smoke alarm.

This is supposedly the latest and greatest ionization model, and also has
the
sealed, 10 year Li-Ion battery.

The unit is on the ceiling in an upstairs hallway, and from everything I can
tell, this is a dry, and most
normal location. No undue dust, temp., odors, etc.

Anyway, the unit would give 3 to 4 chirps every day or two, at totally
random times.
No correlation with time of day, meal cooking, etc.
Truly random.

Just 3-4 chirps, then nothing until next time, 24 to 48 hrs later.

Called Kidde, and they were nice enought to send me a new unit.
They had absolutely no idea what the 3-4 chirps might mean, or why.

The new unit is doing the same behavior.

I guess I will just find a different brand to put up, but am wondering why,
with two units, what might be happening.

I would leave two of them up, one of the Kiddees and maybe the other
brand you will buy. One should really always have two different
models, maybe ionization and photowhatever. But in your case, maybe 3
of them, i, p, and one of the kiddes.

I have no idea about model, but I'll tell you a story my neighbor's
neighbor told me, after the first guy had a fire in his kitchen.

I was told that their smoke alarm kept beeping, I have no idea how
often or how big or little the beeps were, except that it was
tolerable for a while. Then they removed it have it repaired (which
sounds unblievable since I don't know anyone who repairs these things,
unless they mean they sent it back to the manufacturer) and while they
had none, a fire broke out in the analog clock of the stove.

The conclusion was, and I concur, that the motor had been burning a
teeny bit for weeks or months, however long the smoke alarm was
beeping, and the clock finally burst into flames. That the smoke
detector worked all along.

I had the same smoke detector at the time, and it never gave a little
beep. When I made enough smoke in the kitchen, it blared.

And Kidde themselves told you that they don't know what the chirps
mean, although it was customer service I guess, and not one of the
guys who designed or tested it. One woudl think all that info is the
same in both places, but you never know. Hmmm. I sort of doubt it.

Maybe you could test the alarm if you could generate just the smallest
bit of smoke. I'm not sure you can do that. When I use a kitchen map
to test my smoke alarm, and I hold it about 6 inches from the alarm,
it doesn't go off right away, but when it does after maybe 5 seconds,
it is full blast. If it went off quicker, I would hold the match
further away, but I'm impatient. Maybe you can hold it two feet away
and wait for 20 seconds. That should give only a tiny bit of smoke,
unless the wind is straight towards the alarm.


- Any service history or recalls with the model 0910 ?
- Any ideas on ?

Thanks,
Bob

mm wrote:

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:35:14 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hello:

This relates to a question i posted a while back, but was hoping someone
might have any new thoughts on this, or perhaps someone new might.

I had installed a model 0910 Kidde smoke alarm.

This is supposedly the latest and greatest ionization model, and also has
the
sealed, 10 year Li-Ion battery.

The unit is on the ceiling in an upstairs hallway, and from everything I can
tell, this is a dry, and most
normal location. No undue dust, temp., odors, etc.

Anyway, the unit would give 3 to 4 chirps every day or two, at totally
random times.
No correlation with time of day, meal cooking, etc.
Truly random.

Just 3-4 chirps, then nothing until next time, 24 to 48 hrs later.

Called Kidde, and they were nice enought to send me a new unit.
They had absolutely no idea what the 3-4 chirps might mean, or why.

The new unit is doing the same behavior.

I guess I will just find a different brand to put up, but am wondering why,
with two units, what might be happening.

I would leave two of them up, one of the Kiddees and maybe the other
brand you will buy. One should really always have two different
models, maybe ionization and photowhatever. But in your case, maybe 3
of them, i, p, and one of the kiddes.


That is unnecessary. Robert was given the correct answer over on ASA.
He has a monitored alarm that he did DIY style. His saga spans well
over a year, why he continues to post nonsense when he has all the
information, I don't know.


I have no idea about model, but I'll tell you a story my neighbor's
neighbor told me, after the first guy had a fire in his kitchen.

I was told that their smoke alarm kept beeping, I have no idea how
often or how big or little the beeps were, except that it was
tolerable for a while. Then they removed it have it repaired (which
sounds unblievable since I don't know anyone who repairs these things,
unless they mean they sent it back to the manufacturer) and while they
had none, a fire broke out in the analog clock of the stove.

Batt. smokes cost only $10 to replace. They would pay more in
shipping to fix, plus residential units need to be replaced every 10
years.



The conclusion was, and I concur, that the motor had been burning a
teeny bit for weeks or months, however long the smoke alarm was
beeping, and the clock finally burst into flames. That the smoke
detector worked all along.

I had the same smoke detector at the time, and it never gave a little
beep. When I made enough smoke in the kitchen, it blared.

And Kidde themselves told you that they don't know what the chirps
mean, although it was customer service I guess, and not one of the
guys who designed or tested it. One woudl think all that info is the
same in both places, but you never know. Hmmm. I sort of doubt it.

Maybe you could test the alarm if you could generate just the smallest
bit of smoke. I'm not sure you can do that. When I use a kitchen map
to test my smoke alarm, and I hold it about 6 inches from the alarm,
it doesn't go off right away, but when it does after maybe 5 seconds,
it is full blast. If it went off quicker, I would hold the match
further away, but I'm impatient. Maybe you can hold it two feet away
and wait for 20 seconds. That should give only a tiny bit of smoke,
unless the wind is straight towards the alarm.

There is "smoke in a can" for that purpose. I buy it from my
wholesaler. Here is the link to retail:

http://testproducts.com/fire_smoke/

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:18:27 -0500, Milhouse Van Houten
wrote:

mm wrote:

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:35:14 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hello:

This relates to a question i posted a while back, but was hoping someone
might have any new thoughts on this, or perhaps someone new might.

I had installed a model 0910 Kidde smoke alarm.

This is supposedly the latest and greatest ionization model, and also has
the
sealed, 10 year Li-Ion battery.

The unit is on the ceiling in an upstairs hallway, and from everything I can
tell, this is a dry, and most
normal location. No undue dust, temp., odors, etc.

Anyway, the unit would give 3 to 4 chirps every day or two, at totally
random times.
No correlation with time of day, meal cooking, etc.
Truly random.

Just 3-4 chirps, then nothing until next time, 24 to 48 hrs later.

Called Kidde, and they were nice enought to send me a new unit.
They had absolutely no idea what the 3-4 chirps might mean, or why.

The new unit is doing the same behavior.

I guess I will just find a different brand to put up, but am wondering why,
with two units, what might be happening.

I would leave two of them up, one of the Kiddees and maybe the other
brand you will buy. One should really always have two different
models, maybe ionization and photowhatever. But in your case, maybe 3
of them, i, p, and one of the kiddes.


That is unnecessary.

Which part of my paragraph is unnecessary, I can't tell? Having both
an ionization alarm and a photosensitive one seems like a good idea to
me. I've read that one is better for fast burning fires, and the other
better for smouldering ones.

Robert was given the correct answer over on ASA.
He has a monitored alarm that he did DIY style. His saga spans well
over a year, why he continues to post nonsense when he has all the
information, I don't know.

I have no idea about model, but I'll tell you a story my neighbor's
neighbor told me, after the first guy had a fire in his kitchen.

I was told that their smoke alarm kept beeping, I have no idea how
often or how big or little the beeps were, except that it was
tolerable for a while. Then they removed it have it repaired (which
sounds unblievable since I don't know anyone who repairs these things,
unless they mean they sent it back to the manufacturer) and while they
had none, a fire broke out in the analog clock of the stove.

Batt. smokes cost only $10 to replace. They would pay more in
shipping to fix, plus residential units need to be replaced every 10
years.

Although I think they were 20 or more at the time, you may well still
be right. But there are people who would do it anyway. Partly
because some people are compulsive and partly because they don't want
to hunt for an alarm that will clip into the box in the ceiling. I
don't think at the time there was much pushing of the notion that they
should be replaced every ten years.

OTOH, it's also possible they took it out when it started to beep and
weren't trying to replace it at all, becuase they concluded there was
no fire. Then they didnt' want to admit how negligent they were to
not replace it.

The conclusion was, and I concur, that the motor had been burning a
teeny bit for weeks or months, however long the smoke alarm was
beeping, and the clock finally burst into flames.

I should have said that the whole kitchen was burnt out, plus some
smoke or water damage to other parts of the house. Even though it is
bad for the spices, I keep a spice rack above the rear part of my
stove including the clock, but most of my neighbors have nothing until
the cabints a foot above. The clock still set things afire.
....

Maybe you could test the alarm if you could generate just the smallest
bit of smoke. I'm not sure you can do that. When I use a kitchen map
to test my smoke alarm, and I hold it about 6 inches from the alarm,
it doesn't go off right away, but when it does after maybe 5 seconds,
it is full blast. If it went off quicker, I would hold the match
further away, but I'm impatient. Maybe you can hold it two feet away
and wait for 20 seconds. That should give only a tiny bit of smoke,
unless the wind is straight towards the alarm.

There is "smoke in a can" for that purpose. I buy it from my
wholesaler. Here is the link to retail:

http://testproducts.com/fire_smoke/

Thanks I may buy that some day. The smaller items on the buy-now page
are darn cheap, although they won't say how much shipping is unless I
sign in, and I won't do that.

Looking at the page, it seems that this is more for general testing of
alarms than it is for testing with a minimum amount of smoke, such as
a barely smouldering clock.

It might be tedious for a pro to keep using matches, but why would it
be a problem for a home owner with only 1 or 2 detectors to test?

Wouldn't using a wooden kitchen match (the two inch ones) be an
adequate test? They sell 3 boxes for a couple dollars and they have
many other uses too.

mm wrote:

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 14:18:27 -0500, Milhouse Van Houten
wrote:

mm wrote:

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:35:14 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hello:

This relates to a question i posted a while back, but was hoping someone
might have any new thoughts on this, or perhaps someone new might.

I had installed a model 0910 Kidde smoke alarm.

This is supposedly the latest and greatest ionization model, and also has
the
sealed, 10 year Li-Ion battery.

The unit is on the ceiling in an upstairs hallway, and from everything I can
tell, this is a dry, and most
normal location. No undue dust, temp., odors, etc.

Anyway, the unit would give 3 to 4 chirps every day or two, at totally
random times.
No correlation with time of day, meal cooking, etc.
Truly random.

Just 3-4 chirps, then nothing until next time, 24 to 48 hrs later.

Called Kidde, and they were nice enought to send me a new unit.
They had absolutely no idea what the 3-4 chirps might mean, or why.

The new unit is doing the same behavior.

I guess I will just find a different brand to put up, but am wondering why,
with two units, what might be happening.

I would leave two of them up, one of the Kiddees and maybe the other
brand you will buy. One should really always have two different
models, maybe ionization and photowhatever. But in your case, maybe 3
of them, i, p, and one of the kiddes.


That is unnecessary.

Which part of my paragraph is unnecessary, I can't tell? Having both
an ionization alarm and a photosensitive one seems like a good idea to
me. I've read that one is better for fast burning fires, and the other
better for smouldering ones.

Smoldering fires are the most common in a residential situation. A
photoelectric detector is ideal for detection in this situation. Ion
smokes will false all the time whenever the wife burns something on
the stove. Ion smokes are used for fast starting fires, like a
electrical motor shorting out.



Robert was given the correct answer over on ASA.
He has a monitored alarm that he did DIY style. His saga spans well
over a year, why he continues to post nonsense when he has all the
information, I don't know.

I have no idea about model, but I'll tell you a story my neighbor's
neighbor told me, after the first guy had a fire in his kitchen.

I was told that their smoke alarm kept beeping, I have no idea how
often or how big or little the beeps were, except that it was
tolerable for a while. Then they removed it have it repaired (which
sounds unblievable since I don't know anyone who repairs these things,
unless they mean they sent it back to the manufacturer) and while they
had none, a fire broke out in the analog clock of the stove.

Batt. smokes cost only $10 to replace. They would pay more in
shipping to fix, plus residential units need to be replaced every 10
years.

Although I think they were 20 or more at the time, you may well still
be right. But there are people who would do it anyway. Partly
because some people are compulsive and partly because they don't want
to hunt for an alarm that will clip into the box in the ceiling. I
don't think at the time there was much pushing of the notion that they
should be replaced every ten years.


http://www.nfpa.org/faq.asp?category...5Ftest=1#23015

"Do dwelling smoke alarms need to be replaced every 10 years? Does
this apply to commercial system powered detectors?"

Section 8-3.5 of NFPA 72 now requires all single-station and
multiple-station smoke alarms to be replaced every ten years. This is
because buildup of grease and dust, insect infestations, and normal
failure rates dictate replacement. This requirement does not apply to
system powered smoke detectors that are commonly found in
commercial/industrial establishments because they are sensitivity
tested to the requirements of Chapter 7 of NFPA 72.


OTOH, it's also possible they took it out when it started to beep and
weren't trying to replace it at all, becuase they concluded there was
no fire. Then they didnt' want to admit how negligent they were to
not replace it.

The conclusion was, and I concur, that the motor had been burning a
teeny bit for weeks or months, however long the smoke alarm was
beeping, and the clock finally burst into flames.

I should have said that the whole kitchen was burnt out, plus some
smoke or water damage to other parts of the house. Even though it is
bad for the spices, I keep a spice rack above the rear part of my
stove including the clock, but most of my neighbors have nothing until
the cabints a foot above. The clock still set things afire.
....

Maybe you could test the alarm if you could generate just the smallest
bit of smoke. I'm not sure you can do that. When I use a kitchen map
to test my smoke alarm, and I hold it about 6 inches from the alarm,
it doesn't go off right away, but when it does after maybe 5 seconds,
it is full blast. If it went off quicker, I would hold the match
further away, but I'm impatient. Maybe you can hold it two feet away
and wait for 20 seconds. That should give only a tiny bit of smoke,
unless the wind is straight towards the alarm.

There is "smoke in a can" for that purpose. I buy it from my
wholesaler. Here is the link to retail:

http://testproducts.com/fire_smoke/

Thanks I may buy that some day. The smaller items on the buy-now page
are darn cheap, although they won't say how much shipping is unless I
sign in, and I won't do that.

Looking at the page, it seems that this is more for general testing of
alarms than it is for testing with a minimum amount of smoke, such as
a barely smouldering clock.

It might be tedious for a pro to keep using matches, but why would it
be a problem for a home owner with only 1 or 2 detectors to test?

Wouldn't using a wooden kitchen match (the two inch ones) be an
adequate test? They sell 3 boxes for a couple dollars and they have
many other uses too.



No. If the directions are followed it meets requirements of NFPA 72.
Match testing and holding cigarettes are not acceptable testing
methods.

Please do not offer advice about fire protection if you are just
"guessing". This is serious stuff. Someone may take your advice and
die.

"mm" wrote in message
...

Wouldn't using a wooden kitchen match (the two inch ones) be an
adequate test? They sell 3 boxes for a couple dollars and they have
many other uses too.



No, nice guess but testing that way leaves a film on the sensing chamber
that decreases sensitivity.

GROUP MODERATOR wrote:


"mm" wrote in message
.. .

Wouldn't using a wooden kitchen match (the two inch ones) be an
adequate test? They sell 3 boxes for a couple dollars and they have
many other uses too.



No, nice guess but testing that way leaves a film on the sensing chamber
that decreases sensitivity.



Exactly that.. a guess. Someone wants to save a buck buy using
matches instead of proper methods.

How do you like my new name? :-))

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 16:54:03 -0400, "GROUP MODERATOR"
wrote:


"mm" wrote in message
.. .

Wouldn't using a wooden kitchen match (the two inch ones) be an
adequate test? They sell 3 boxes for a couple dollars and they have
many other uses too.



No, nice guess but testing that way leaves a film on the sensing chamber
that decreases sensitivity.

Good to know.

Still, 99.9+ percent of people will not send away for smoke in a can.

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 15:33:10 -0500, Apu Nahasapeemapetilon
wrote:



Although I think they were 20 or more at the time, you may well still
be right. But there are people who would do it anyway. Partly
because some people are compulsive and partly because they don't want
to hunt for an alarm that will clip into the box in the ceiling. I
don't think at the time there was much pushing of the notion that they
should be replaced every ten years.


http://www.nfpa.org/faq.asp?category...5Ftest=1#23015

"Do dwelling smoke alarms need to be replaced every 10 years? Does
this apply to commercial system powered detectors?"

Section 8-3.5 of NFPA 72 now requires all single-station and
multiple-station smoke alarms to be replaced every ten years. This is

I don't doubt that. I was just trying to explain why it's indeed
possible that my neighbor sent his smoke alarm back to the factory for
repair. Since they know more about such things than he does, I'm sure
they would have just sent him a new replacement.
....
It might be tedious for a pro to keep using matches, but why would it
be a problem for a home owner with only 1 or 2 detectors to test?

Wouldn't using a wooden kitchen match (the two inch ones) be an
adequate test? They sell 3 boxes for a couple dollars and they have
many other uses too.



No. If the directions are followed it meets requirements of NFPA 72.
Match testing and holding cigarettes are not acceptable testing
methods.

Please do not offer advice about fire protection if you are just
"guessing". This is serious stuff. Someone may take your advice and
die.

Most of my two posts in this thread was a story, which I made clear
was second hand.

As to the rest, I used terms like maybe, sort of, might, seems like,
I've read, and "Wouldn't" to introduce a question. I didn't claim to
be any authority, and I doubt he thought I was one.

You hadn't posted a reply to the OP, so I was trying to help him
resolve his quandry. Do you have any help to offer him?

mm wrote:

You hadn't posted a reply to the OP, so I was trying to help him
resolve his quandry. Do you have any help to offer him?

No problem mm. You were just bantering.

He got an answer in another NG.

"Apu Nahasapeemapetilon" wrote in message
...

How do you like my new name? :-))

having a hard time pronouncing it but, niiiice.

"mm" wrote in message
...
Good to know.

Still, 99.9+ percent of people will not send away for smoke in a can.

true, wonder if HD has anything like it?

On Sat, 14 Apr 2007 08:35:14 -0400, "Robert11"
wrote:

Hello:

This relates to a question i posted a while back, but was hoping someone
might have any new thoughts on this, or perhaps someone new might.

I had installed a model 0910 Kidde smoke alarm.

This is supposedly the latest and greatest ionization model, and also has
the
sealed, 10 year Li-Ion battery.

The unit is on the ceiling in an upstairs hallway, and from everything I can
tell, this is a dry, and most
normal location. No undue dust, temp., odors, etc.

Anyway, the unit would give 3 to 4 chirps every day or two, at totally
random times.
No correlation with time of day, meal cooking, etc.
Truly random.

Just 3-4 chirps, then nothing until next time, 24 to 48 hrs later.

Called Kidde, and they were nice enought to send me a new unit.
They had absolutely no idea what the 3-4 chirps might mean, or why.

The new unit is doing the same behavior.

I guess I will just find a different brand to put up, but am wondering why,
with two units, what might be happening.

- Any service history or recalls with the model 0910 ?
- Any ideas on ?

Thanks,
Bob






What was the response to calling them a second time about the
replacement?

tom @ www.FreelancingProjects.com