We're going to be removing hardwood flooring that is in the kitchen
which has the cabinetry built over top of it. The faces of the
cabinet structure is not completely perpendicular to the floor but
instead of a 90-degree cutout. So the cabinet frame goes up about
three inches, then comes out about three inches, and then continues up
the rest of the way. How are we to cut out the hardwood from below
this cutout?

On Mar 4, 8:08 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote:
We're going to be removing hardwood flooring that is in the kitchen
which has the cabinetry built over top of it. The faces of the
cabinet structure is not completely perpendicular to the floor but
instead of a 90-degree cutout. So the cabinet frame goes up about
three inches, then comes out about three inches, and then continues up
the rest of the way. How are we to cut out the hardwood from below
this cutout?

How do you know the cabinets are on top of the flooring? It is common
for cabinets to be installed first, then flooring. Why do you want to
remove the flooring anyway?

On Mar 4, 9:22 pm, "Lawrence" wrote:
On Mar 4, 8:08 pm, "GG.and.UN." wrote:

We're going to be removing hardwood flooring that is in the kitchen
which has the cabinetry built over top of it. The faces of the
cabinet structure is not completely perpendicular to the floor but
instead of a 90-degree cutout. So the cabinet frame goes up about
three inches, then comes out about three inches, and then continues up
the rest of the way. How are we to cut out the hardwood from below
this cutout?

How do you know the cabinets are on top of the flooring? It is common
for cabinets to be installed first, then flooring.

Today that's common. In the olden days, in better homes, the floor
came first, then the cabinets. Everything didn't used to be built as
cheaply as possible.
-----

- gpsman

So, considering the the hardwood goes underneath the cabinets what
would be the best approach in this situation to remove the wood under
these lips so that tile can take it's place?

On Mar 5, 9:09 am, "GG.and.UN." wrote:
So, considering the the hardwood goes underneath the cabinets what
would be the best approach in this situation to remove the wood under
these lips so that tile can take it's place?

I don't know, and my imagination suggests it might be difficult.

I'd check with the best tool rental place in town and ask them what
they've got that might do the job. I think there's a small horizontal
saw that can get within about a 1/4-1/8", but I'm not sure about that.

Then I'd consider chiseling it out as close as practical with the plan
of trimming out the kickplate out to cover the joint with baseboard,
or running the tile up the kickplate.
-----

- gpsman

You want a Crane toe-kick saw. It has a small circular blade that can get
under toe-kicks. It cuts virtually flush with the vertical face, however,
you may be able to remove the vertical facing in the toe-kick to get the saw
closer to the cabinet frame.

You can either rent one at your local rental store or buy one on-line and
then sell it on ebay when you are finished.

"gpsman" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Mar 5, 9:09 am, "GG.and.UN." wrote:
So, considering the the hardwood goes underneath the cabinets what
would be the best approach in this situation to remove the wood under
these lips so that tile can take it's place?

I don't know, and my imagination suggests it might be difficult.

I'd check with the best tool rental place in town and ask them what
they've got that might do the job. I think there's a small horizontal
saw that can get within about a 1/4-1/8", but I'm not sure about that.

Then I'd consider chiseling it out as close as practical with the plan
of trimming out the kickplate out to cover the joint with baseboard,
or running the tile up the kickplate.
-----

- gpsman

On 4 Mar 2007 18:08:26 -0800, "GG.and.UN."
wrote:

We're going to be removing hardwood flooring that is in the kitchen
which has the cabinetry built over top of it. The faces of the
cabinet structure is not completely perpendicular to the floor but
instead of a 90-degree cutout. So the cabinet frame goes up about
three inches, then comes out about three inches, and then continues up
the rest of the way. How are we to cut out the hardwood from below
this cutout?

You've already wasted more time fiddling with the question than it
would have taken to just remove or jack up the cabinets. Get on with
it.

EXT, thank you very much; just what I was looking for.

Deke: lol, thanks for your encouragement.

We are not undertaking the project for another two weeks...

On Mar 5, 9:48 am, Deke wrote:
On 4 Mar 2007 18:08:26 -0800, "GG.and.UN."
wrote:

We're going to be removing hardwood flooring that is in the kitchen
which has the cabinetry built over top of it. The faces of the
cabinet structure is not completely perpendicular to the floor but
instead of a 90-degree cutout. So the cabinet frame goes up about
three inches, then comes out about three inches, and then continues up
the rest of the way. How are we to cut out the hardwood from below
this cutout?

You've already wasted more time fiddling with the question than it
would have taken to just remove or jack up the cabinets. Get on with
it.

On Mar 5, 9:48 am, Deke wrote:
snip

You've already wasted more time fiddling with the question than it
would have taken to just remove or jack up the cabinets. Get on with
it.

Totally concur with this view. Messing with an unfamiliar rental tool
will not accomplish much more than frustrate you and set you project
back seral days. Cabinets need to be set on top of flooring anyhow so
your diswasher will fit right. HTH

Joe

I'm not sure I agree. The cabinets are not very robust and removing
them to take up the wood floor underneath them would not guarantee
that we get them back in. The tool does not look very difficult to use
=)

Why would using this tool to cut the hardwood at the cabinet seams
affect the flooring underneath the cabinets and the dishwasher? The
existing wood floor would still be underneath the cabinets. I guess I
don't quite understand.

On Mon, 5 Mar 2007 10:29:22 -0500, "EXT"
wrote:

You want a Crane toe-kick saw. It has a small circular blade that can get
under toe-kicks. It cuts virtually flush with the vertical face, however,
you may be able to remove the vertical facing in the toe-kick to get the saw
closer to the cabinet frame.


Crain.

Here you go:
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94626
$49

On Mar 5, 11:15 am, "GG.and.UN." wrote:
I'm not sure I agree. The cabinets are not very robust and removing
them to take up the wood floor underneath them would not guarantee
that we get them back in.

If they are that rinky-dink, why not replace them with something
better?

Why would using this tool to cut the hardwood at the cabinet seams
affect the flooring underneath the cabinets and the dishwasher? The
existing wood floor would still be underneath the cabinets. I guess I
don't quite understand.

Stop and thnk about installing a new dishwaher (they don't last
forever, you know). Most cabinets are made to the height of the
dishwasher, so if you raise the floor in front the dishwasher won't
clear the upper opening. This problem has been mentioned in this NG
several times.

Joe

On Mar 5, 6:20 pm, "Joe" wrote:
On Mar 5, 11:15 am, "GG.and.UN." wrote:

I'm not sure I agree. The cabinets are not very robust and removing
them to take up the wood floor underneath them would not guarantee
that we get them back in.

If they are that rinky-dink, why not replace them with something
better?

Why would using this tool to cut the hardwood at the cabinet seams
affect the flooring underneath the cabinets and the dishwasher? The
existing wood floor would still be underneath the cabinets. I guess I
don't quite understand.

Stop and thnk about installing a new dishwaher (they don't last
forever, you know). Most cabinets are made to the height of the
dishwasher, so if you raise the floor in front the dishwasher won't
clear the upper opening. This problem has been mentioned in this NG
several times.

Joe

They are not that rinky-dinky if they stay put. Do YOU want to give
me the $$$ to replace them? We are taking this project slow... if we
want to replace the cabinets in a few years so be it, if not that's OK
too. Just because we cannot do everything doesn't mean we can't do
some things.

Also, we purchased a new dishwasher about three months ago. The
dishwasher will be fine, I don't know why you worry about it so much.
We will be taking out a layer of vinyl on top of plywood, and taking
out existing hardwood, and replacing the subfloor; this will drop the
floor by about 3" already... then once we put in 1" ply, 1/2"
hardibacker board, plus the thinset, and the tile we'll be right back
to where we were in terms of height. Thanks for your insights as I'm
sure you mean well but they seem slightly off-topic.

On Mar 5, 6:04 pm, "Oughtsix" wrote:
Here you go:http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=94626
$49

Excellent find Oughtsix... thank you very much I really appreciate it.

I just measured the height of the toe-kick from the floor to the
bottom side of the toe-kick and the clearance is only 2-3/4" so it
looks like the toe-kick saw won't work unless they make versions
smaller than 3-3/8".

Maybe it will work depending on the depth of your cut. If you are
cutting an inch deep then you will have to start the cut infront of
the toe kick and then saw in underneith it.

I think your dishwasher is a non issue. (It kind of sounds like
someone has prefiously hosed themselves)

I would be worried about taking out the subfloor and replacing it
though. It seem like there would be a gap 1/16" +/- between the new
subfloor and the old subfloor going all the way through to your
basment/crawl space. It seems like you would want put 2x4's under
this seam between the floor joists to keep every thing tied together
and liberally apply construction adhesive. Can you just tear our the
hardwood and linoleum and use the existing subfloor?

Have you thought about reinstalling the hardwood floor elsewhere in
the house as it is (with the finish) THEN sanding it smooth with a
drum sander? I guess you wouldn't have to take very much off with a
planer so this is probabally a non-issue also.

On Mar 6, 4:29 pm, "Oughtsix" wrote:
Maybe it will work depending on the depth of your cut. If you are
cutting an inch deep then you will have to start the cut infront of
the toe kick and then saw in underneith it.

I'll have to find someone knowledgeable about this tool to be sure.

I think your dishwasher is a non issue. (It kind of sounds like
someone has prefiously hosed themselves)

=)


I would be worried about taking out the subfloor and replacing it
though. It seem like there would be a gap 1/16" +/- between the new
subfloor and the old subfloor going all the way through to your
basment/crawl space. It seems like you would want put 2x4's under
this seam between the floor joists to keep every thing tied together
and liberally apply construction adhesive. Can you just tear our the
hardwood and linoleum and use the existing subfloor?

I'm not quite sure what your talking about concerning the subfloor;
where is this 1/16" coming from?
The reason for wanting to remove the subfloor (and this is something
I've been praying on a lot lately and was considering posting as well)
is that the deflection in the room is horrendous. The floor is
basically a parabola... 1" deflection in one spot and only 1/4" in
another. The room bows down to one corner. We just don't have the
funds to uber-correctly fix the joists by sistering or raising but we
were hoping to shim the low spots up by using either shims or custom
made Xx2's. What is the feasibility of this? I've really been
considering not tiling and just puting down some vinyl or linoleum
though I don't think we have the funds for real linoleum right now.
I'm probably going to bring someone in soon to take a look and get
recommendations. From everything I've read there cannot be any
unconstant deflection when laying tile or it will eventually crack
prematurely. Is this 100% true or is there circumstances that this
outcome will be drastically reduced... say using ultra-flex thinset.
I really need recommendations and thanks for all your help.


Have you thought about reinstalling the hardwood floor elsewhere in
the house as it is (with the finish) THEN sanding it smooth with a
drum sander? I guess you wouldn't have to take very much off with a
planer so this is probabally a non-issue also.

Well, yes... but my brother-in-law is the one with experience doing
this and he'd rather plane them; he just feels it's easier and has
better results.

replying to GG.and.UN., downdraft wrote:
GG.and.UN wrote:

We're going to be removing hardwood flooring that is in the kitchen
which has the cabinetry built over top of it. The faces of the
cabinet structure is not completely perpendicular to the floor but
instead of a 90-degree cutout. So the cabinet frame goes up about
three inches, then comes out about three inches, and then continues up
the rest of the way. How are we to cut out the hardwood from below
this cutout?


I had exactly the same challenge. I had built my cabinets on top of the
finished floor (random width oak). Due to a flood within the house I had
to remove both oak and subfloor.

The cabinets could not be moved temporarily because they were specially
made and would be damaged.

So I removed the 4 inch "kick board" under the front bottom edge...then
took a rotary saw and a temporary cutting guide on the floor, the length
of the cabinet, and drew a line on the floor along the spot the kick board
ran.

I then sawed on the entire line 3/4" deep and removed the oak planking up
to that sawed line.

I then installed the replacement oak flooring up to the cut line. To hide
the cut and the seam where the new wood met the old, I replaced a "kick
board" over the cut line and seam, thus hiding the seams and cuts...looks
like new.

Note, I removed the subfloor as well, up to that line, and butted the
new subfloor and did the new oak last.

--

"downdraft" wrote in
message oups.com...
replying to GG.and.UN., downdraft wrote:
GG.and.UN wrote:

We're going to be removing hardwood flooring that is in the kitchen
which has the cabinetry built over top of it. The faces of the
cabinet structure is not completely perpendicular to the floor but
instead of a 90-degree cutout. So the cabinet frame goes up about
three inches, then comes out about three inches, and then continues up
the rest of the way. How are we to cut out the hardwood from below
this cutout?


What you are describing is called a toe kick.

What you need is to buy or rent a Crain Toe Kick saw. It fits under the
overhand and cuts the floor flush with the back or side walls. Google the
saw and you will see how it works.

Joe is somehow assuming that you want the floor out from under the cabinets which is exactly what you are NOT proposing to do, so ignore Joe's comments.