During the 2003 power cut, I found one of my major shortcomings
was air movement. The gas range did a nice job heating the
kitchen, but not any of the rest of the trailer. Since then I've
got a trolling battery, and an inverter. So that I can run some
low wattage lights, and also fans to move the heat around.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Jim Rusling" wrote in message
g...
:
: I have two deep cycle batteries with small inverters that will
run the
: TV and computer for several hours. I also have a 4 KW
generator that
: will take care of the heat, refrigerator, and freezer; as well
as the
: neighbors.
: --
: Jim Rusling
: More or Less Retired
: Mustang, OK
: http://www.rusling.org

On Feb 25, 5:29 pm, "Stormin Mormon" cayoung61-
wrote:
During the 2003 power cut, I found one of my major shortcomings
was air movement. The gas range did a nice job heating the
kitchen, but not any of the rest of the trailer. Since then I've
got a trolling battery, and an inverter. So that I can run some
low wattage lights, and also fans to move the heat around.

Kitchen appliances are not designed to heat houses. I hope you have a
CO detector and smoke detectors. That way, when your house burns down
you can get out safely, then stand real close to the fire to stay
warm.

On 2 Mar 2007 10:52:07 -0800, wrote:

On Feb 25, 5:29 pm, "Stormin Mormon" cayoung61-
wrote:
During the 2003 power cut, I found one of my major shortcomings
was air movement. The gas range did a nice job heating the
kitchen, but not any of the rest of the trailer. Since then I've
got a trolling battery, and an inverter. So that I can run some
low wattage lights, and also fans to move the heat around.

Kitchen appliances are not designed to heat houses. I hope you have a
CO detector and smoke detectors. That way, when your house burns down
you can get out safely, then stand real close to the fire to stay
warm.

OTOH, kitchen appliances are not sentenient beings and don't know what
they're heating. They'll no more burn down the house heating air than
they will heating water, roast beef, turkey, etc.

OTOH2, some DO produce a lot of CO. The propane range in my MH can
click off 100 PPM CO in under an hour with all three burners going.

---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:35:16 -0500, Neon John wrote:


On 2 Mar 2007 10:52:07 -0800, wrote:

On Feb 25, 5:29 pm, "Stormin Mormon" cayoung61-
wrote:
During the 2003 power cut, I found one of my major shortcomings
was air movement. The gas range did a nice job heating the
kitchen, but not any of the rest of the trailer. Since then I've
got a trolling battery, and an inverter. So that I can run some
low wattage lights, and also fans to move the heat around.

Kitchen appliances are not designed to heat houses. I hope you have a
CO detector and smoke detectors. That way, when your house burns down
you can get out safely, then stand real close to the fire to stay
warm.

OTOH, kitchen appliances are not sentenient beings and don't know what
they're heating. They'll no more burn down the house heating air than
they will heating water, roast beef, turkey, etc.

Strawman argument. Nobody has said that appliances might be sentient.
The argument is about wether or not they are designed to be used to heat
a room and they most certainly not.

It won't burn the house down, but you possibly might not live through the
night.

OTOH2, some DO produce a lot of CO. The propane range in my MH can
click off 100 PPM CO in under an hour with all three burners going.
Clearly yours has affected you judging by the quality of your post.

"AZ Nomad" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 02 Mar 2007 17:35:16 -0500, Neon John wrote:


On 2 Mar 2007 10:52:07 -0800, wrote:

On Feb 25, 5:29 pm, "Stormin Mormon" cayoung61-
wrote:
During the 2003 power cut, I found one of my major shortcomings
was air movement. The gas range did a nice job heating the
kitchen, but not any of the rest of the trailer. Since then I've
got a trolling battery, and an inverter. So that I can run some
low wattage lights, and also fans to move the heat around.

Kitchen appliances are not designed to heat houses. I hope you have a
CO detector and smoke detectors. That way, when your house burns down
you can get out safely, then stand real close to the fire to stay
warm.

OTOH, kitchen appliances are not sentenient beings and don't know what
they're heating. They'll no more burn down the house heating air than
they will heating water, roast beef, turkey, etc.

Strawman argument. Nobody has said that appliances might be sentient.
The argument is about wether or not they are designed to be used to heat
a room and they most certainly not.

It won't burn the house down, but you possibly might not live through the
night.

OTOH2, some DO produce a lot of CO. The propane range in my MH can
click off 100 PPM CO in under an hour with all three burners going.
Clearly yours has affected you judging by the quality of your post.

My previous place had a gas range, and when I had a power outage in winter
that lasted long enough for the place to get cold, I'd use that for heat. I
never left it running more than 20 minutes an hour, though, and never while
I was asleep. That place was so leaky that I doubt CO buildup was a huge
problem.

aem sends....

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 12:44:53 GMT, aemeijers wrote:
My previous place had a gas range, and when I had a power outage in winter
that lasted long enough for the place to get cold, I'd use that for heat. I
never left it running more than 20 minutes an hour, though, and never while
I was asleep. That place was so leaky that I doubt CO buildup was a huge
problem.

I don't care if you used to burn your furniture in the middle of your kitchen
floor during outtages. It still doesn't make burning natural gas without a
chimney and without tight fuel mixture regulation a good idea. You're the kind
of person we read about in the morning papers who did something similarly
incredibly stupid using the fact that they it hadn't killed them yet as proof
that it was ok.

You really should take your life more seriously. Get a motel room if you're
without heat; visit friends or family with a fireplace. Invest in some good
sleeping bag.

On 2007-03-04, AZ Nomad wrote:

I don't care if you used to burn your furniture in the middle of your kitchen
floor during outtages. It still doesn't make burning natural gas without a
chimney and without tight fuel mixture regulation a good idea. You're the kind
of person we read about in the morning papers who did something similarly
incredibly stupid using the fact that they it hadn't killed them yet as proof
that it was ok.

So why aren't we reading about hundreds of people dying on Thanksgiving
from carbon monoxide poisoning because they roasted their turkeys in gas
ranges for many hours? Do you think all these gas ranges have chimneys?

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 14:47:29 GMT, AZ Nomad
wrote:


I don't care if you used to burn your furniture in the middle of your kitchen
floor during outtages. It still doesn't make burning natural gas without a
chimney and without tight fuel mixture regulation a good idea. You're the kind
of person we read about in the morning papers who did something similarly
incredibly stupid using the fact that they it hadn't killed them yet as proof
that it was ok.

You really should take your life more seriously. Get a motel room if you're
without heat; visit friends or family with a fireplace. Invest in some good
sleeping bag.

Wow, a gen-u-whine card-carrying USDA-Prime *sshole. Don't see many
of those anymore now that the garden variety has taken over.

I'm curious Mr. 'hole. If burning natural gas (and propane I assume)
without a chimney is such a bad idea they why are there so many gas
stoves, unvented heaters, catalytic heaters and gas mantle lights out
there, all operating without problems? Tell me that, o' sayer of
sooth.

Oh wait. Captain Obvious has arrived with the answer. These devices
are DESIGNED to be used indoors without a chimney. They work fine.
Thank you, Capt'n...

A few years ago there would still be some uncertainty involved but
these days one can know for sure that an appliance is operating
properly. One need simply spend (not "invest") less than $50 on a
good digital readout CO detector such as a NightHawk.

Having done so 3 times (house, motor home, semi truck cab) I know that
my motorhome's propane stove makes enough CO to be dangerous even
though it is "properly regulated". I know that my catalytic heaters
and my ceramic surface burner heaters (Mr Heater Buddy and Detroit
Radiant Heat) emit zero CO within the limits of detection. (I
actually know that they emit 0.00 PPM CO, the limit of detection of my
fairly expensive industrial detector but that's another story) The
residential CO detector is something even a card carrier like you can
partake of. Of course, it's easier just to come here and wet yer
panties in public than it is to do it right.

Note to other mobile people: The rectangular NightHawk with the
digital readout near the top and the "N" cutout over the horn can be
easily operated on 12 volts DC. Simply remove the built-in Wall Wart
transformer, cut the cord and connect to 12 volts. The wart outputs
around 9 volts AC. This hits a bridge rectifier on the detector board
and then a voltage regulator. 12 volts DC (polarity doesn't matter)
works perfectly.

I've had one connected like that in my motorhome for 5 years and
another in my semi truck for the several months I've had it. Much
more reliable and MUCH less power draw than an RV-type CO detector.

I have NOT looked at the newer round model but I need to since Sam's
Club has quit carrying the rectangular one and that's the only place I
knew that sold it for $39 instead of around $50.

John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.neon-john.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark Twain

I just don't know what we'd do without acronyms. KWIM?

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Neon John" wrote in message
...
: On 2 Mar 2007 10:52:07 -0800, wrote:
:
: On Feb 25, 5:29 pm, "Stormin Mormon" cayoung61-
: wrote:
: During the 2003 power cut, I found one of my major
shortcomings
: was air movement. The gas range did a nice job heating the
: kitchen, but not any of the rest of the trailer. Since then
I've
: got a trolling battery, and an inverter. So that I can run
some
: low wattage lights, and also fans to move the heat around.
:
: Kitchen appliances are not designed to heat houses. I hope
you have a
: CO detector and smoke detectors. That way, when your house
burns down
: you can get out safely, then stand real close to the fire to
stay
: warm.
:
: OTOH, kitchen appliances are not sentenient beings and don't
know what
: they're heating. They'll no more burn down the house heating
air than
: they will heating water, roast beef, turkey, etc.
:
: OTOH2, some DO produce a lot of CO. The propane range in my MH
can
: click off 100 PPM CO in under an hour with all three burners
going.
:
: ---
: John De Armond
: See my website for my current email address
: http://www.neon-john.com
: Cleveland, Occupied TN
: Don't let your schooling interfere with your education-Mark
Twain

I sure wouldn't worry about indoor use of propane campstoves - as
propane's already daily used as the "gas" stove fuel in countless
rural areas. Only real worry with using a propane campstove indoors
is not putting the propane cylinder where it could be heated by a
burner on the regular stove if the power came on!

No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com

I guess I am luckier than most in this regard as due to the fact I
live in the bush in British Columbia, Canada. We tend to get alot of
power outages, especially this year. If we lived 5 more miles out, we
would have to be off-grid as there is no power or telephone past that
point (no cell phone service ANYWHERE, even here) in the area.

We do not even blink an eye anymore unless we have baby chicks which
require heat, when the power leaves us for up to days at a time. The
last time it happened I was just about to put a HUGE roaster pan of
lasagna into the electric oven and BLIP.. the lights went out.. and so
did the electric oven. It took me about 10 seconds to walk the roaster
pan to the woodstove, put a spacer on it and then cook the lasagna for
about 2 hours more than the oven would have been and it was the best
lasagna I have ever had.

Freezers are not a huge concern, due to where we live and where the
freezers are located. Just the inside refrigerator is the problem due
to the heat from the woodstove. We put the refrigerator contents in 3
cardboard boxes on the front porch and let them just almost freeze and
then put them back in the fridge. Winter is about 7-8 months here, so
heat generally is not an issue outside, just coyote and fox this time
of the year. I am sure they would just love to raid the cardboard
boxes. In the summer, the freezers are getting low so there is not
much meat in there until fall when we butcher and we do not tend to
get many power outages in the summer months.

I have 3 oil lamps. One is for the livingroom for reading, one for the
kitchen and one as a spare. We keep several gallons of lamp oil (but
not in the house, we keep it in the shoppe or the root cellar).

Water is not hugely a problem either as we have a 36 handdug well we
can run clean 5 gallon buckets into. We are looking for a frost free
hand pump for it. This is the original well and the new one is 120 ft,
but it is not hooked up until later this spring. We had up to 3 other
families who were going to come up and stay with us, as they could not
manage at their homes without any electic. We just told them to bring
water and bedding if they came up.

So other than the kids not watching movies or playing electric guitars
or PS2's, it is pretty normal around here. We have woodheat as our
only heat anyway, our cooking source as the same, light from wind up
flashlights and oil lamps, we have a wind up radio with SW I & II as
well as FM/AM, we have water.. We play card or board games, get in
more reading we have been trying to work on, get a great concert by
the teenager on the acoustic guitar.. life is good.

tenzicut
http://www.downtotherootsmagazine.com

On 2007-03-05, wrote:
So other than the kids not watching movies or playing electric guitars
or PS2's, it is pretty normal around here. We have woodheat as our
only heat anyway, our cooking source as the same, light from wind up
flashlights and oil lamps, we have a wind up radio with SW I & II as
well as FM/AM, we have water.. We play card or board games, get in
more reading we have been trying to work on, get a great concert by
the teenager on the acoustic guitar.. life is good.

How are you doing internet access?

--
Jonathan Grobe Books
Browse our inventory of thousands of used books at:
http://www.grobebooks.com

How are you doing internet access? Jonathan Grobe Books


*** We have a landline telephone. We are probably 3 people from the
'end of the line'. We have dialup.. which is slower than regular
dialup. It can take 10 minutes to download an email. I am currently
lusting over wireless. We have point of sight from our mountain to the
next mountain and it is possible to get wireless.

tenzicut
http://www.downtotherootsmagazine.com