I'm thinking that at this point I'll need a plumber to do this, but wanted
to toss this idea out first.

I'm trying to replace the galvanized hot water pipe to my kitchen - it's
rusted shut as galvanized is want to do over time. Anyways, the pipe is in
the crawlspace, elbows into the sill plate, elbows vertical in the wall,
then elbows out of the wall inside the sink cabinet. The sill plate hole is
filled with concrete.

I just can't see myself getting that pipe out of there without major
construction. The best bet I have is to cut the pipe at the sill plate then
pull it out of the wall under the cabinet. Maybe do-able but I'll never be
able to run the new pipe using that same route. I just can't see it
happening. So here's what I was wondering. Would it be kosher to simply
drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet, through the underlayment and avoid
all those nasty joints? That way it's a simple down, elbow to the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with bringing
in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it myself so long
as it's feasible.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
Would it be kosher to simply drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet,
through the underlayment and avoid all those nasty joints? That way it's
a simple down, elbow to the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with
bringing in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it
myself so long as it's feasible.

Kosher or not, it sound sensible. I ass-u-me you are putting in either
copper or PEX. That's what I'd do.

Perfectly fine what you suggest. I wouldn't, and haven't in several cases,
remove ANY of the old stuff. Just leave it there.

--
Steve Barker




"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking that at this point I'll need a plumber to do this, but wanted
to toss this idea out first.

I'm trying to replace the galvanized hot water pipe to my kitchen - it's
rusted shut as galvanized is want to do over time. Anyways, the pipe is
in the crawlspace, elbows into the sill plate, elbows vertical in the
wall, then elbows out of the wall inside the sink cabinet. The sill plate
hole is filled with concrete.

I just can't see myself getting that pipe out of there without major
construction. The best bet I have is to cut the pipe at the sill plate
then pull it out of the wall under the cabinet. Maybe do-able but I'll
never be able to run the new pipe using that same route. I just can't see
it happening. So here's what I was wondering. Would it be kosher to
simply drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet, through the underlayment
and avoid all those nasty joints? That way it's a simple down, elbow to
the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with
bringing in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it
myself so long as it's feasible.

Sounds like an easy plan simple and direct, but I would consider removing as
much of the old galvi as you can sounds like you ready for a re-pipe.



"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking that at this point I'll need a plumber to do this, but wanted
to toss this idea out first.

I'm trying to replace the galvanized hot water pipe to my kitchen - it's
rusted shut as galvanized is want to do over time. Anyways, the pipe is
in the crawlspace, elbows into the sill plate, elbows vertical in the
wall, then elbows out of the wall inside the sink cabinet. The sill plate
hole is filled with concrete.

I just can't see myself getting that pipe out of there without major
construction. The best bet I have is to cut the pipe at the sill plate
then pull it out of the wall under the cabinet. Maybe do-able but I'll
never be able to run the new pipe using that same route. I just can't see
it happening. So here's what I was wondering. Would it be kosher to
simply drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet, through the underlayment
and avoid all those nasty joints? That way it's a simple down, elbow to
the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with
bringing in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it
myself so long as it's feasible.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
. ..

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
Would it be kosher to simply drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet,
through the underlayment and avoid all those nasty joints? That way it's
a simple down, elbow to the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with
bringing in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it
myself so long as it's feasible.

Kosher or not, it sound sensible. I ass-u-me you are putting in either
copper or PEX. That's what I'd do.
Well that's answers that. I just need to get me a 6" long drill bit and go
for it then. I assume it's customary to cut the hole slightly overbore for
the copper pipe run. I used to be a big pusher for PEX, until I started
working with it, it's cheap and easy to work with, but when it comes to
mounting hardware to it the lack of rigidity really does make it difficult
to secure.

On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 10:04:54 -0800, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
Would it be kosher to simply drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet,
through the underlayment and avoid all those nasty joints? That way it's
a simple down, elbow to the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with
bringing in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it
myself so long as it's feasible.

Kosher or not, it sound sensible. I ass-u-me you are putting in either
copper or PEX. That's what I'd do.
Well that's answers that. I just need to get me a 6" long drill bit and go
for it then. I assume it's customary to cut the hole slightly overbore for
the copper pipe run. I used to be a big pusher for PEX, until I started
working with it, it's cheap and easy to work with, but when it comes to
mounting hardware to it the lack of rigidity really does make it difficult
to secure.


I'd get a 12 inch drill, not a 6 inch.

If you buy the right valves for the pex, you can fasten the valve to
hold it rigid. I'm a firm believer in pex pipe. It withstands freezing
better then anything else you will put back in and it's a heck of a
lot easier to work with. If you don't use pex, I think your next best
bet is cpvc. I wouldn't waste a minute with going back with galvanized
or copper. Insulate the cpvc in the crawl space if you live above the
North Carolina latitude.

Foam the hole you drill , from the crawl space/underside so critters
don't get up in the bottom of your cabinet, once you get the pipe back
in.

Galvanized pipe sucks for water lines. I had them in my old house in
Texas. My new house in NC is pex all the way.

"dreamchaser" wrote in message
ups.com...
If you buy the right valves for the pex, you can fasten the valve to
hold it rigid. I'm a firm believer in pex pipe. It withstands freezing
better then anything else you will put back in and it's a heck of a
lot easier to work with. If you don't use pex, I think your next best
bet is cpvc. I wouldn't waste a minute with going back with galvanized
or copper. Insulate the cpvc in the crawl space if you live above the
North Carolina latitude.

Foam the hole you drill , from the crawl space/underside so critters
don't get up in the bottom of your cabinet, once you get the pipe back
in.

Galvanized pipe sucks for water lines. I had them in my old house in
Texas. My new house in NC is pex all the way.

I don't have any major heartburn with PEX, other than it's hard to work with
around fittings.

One of the weaknesses AND strengths of metal piping is that it is rigid.
It's a weakness in my mind because you have to be exact with your
measurments and cuts. It's a strength because it supplies a way for you to
lever it and hold it in position.

With PEX I found at least, was that for instance at a sink fitting the PEX
line just kind of hung out in the open - so that the connection to the sink
fitting was swaying and bending and generally looked sloppy and unsecure.
Now you can secure that by getting a PEX to pipe connection but again
because PEX doesn't provide any leverage because it isn't rigid, if the pipe
connection isn't solid enough you have no way to tighten it - the PEX will
simply torque with your wrench. Now if it's a solder joint, you'd have to
dissasemble the PEX to fix a bad joint - otherwise your torch would melt the
PEX.

Now for long runs it looks very attractive to me - for instance in my
crawlspace I have a straight 20' run to the water heater. No reason to buy
a whole bunch of expensive copper pipe if I can use 5 bucks of PEX line
straight to the heater. I think metal pipe is good for fixture fittings,
but for long runs PEX is more cost effective.

On Feb 24, 8:25 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
"dreamchaser" wrote in message

ups.com... If you buy the right valves for the pex, you can fasten the valve to
hold it rigid. I'm a firm believer in pex pipe. It withstands freezing
better then anything else you will put back in and it's a heck of a
lot easier to work with. If you don't use pex, I think your next best
bet is cpvc. I wouldn't waste a minute with going back with galvanized
or copper. Insulate the cpvc in the crawl space if you live above the
North Carolina latitude.

Foam the hole you drill , from the crawl space/underside so critters
don't get up in the bottom of your cabinet, once you get the pipe back
in.

Galvanized pipe sucks for water lines. I had them in my old house in
Texas. My new house in NC is pex all the way.

I don't have any major heartburn with PEX, other than it's hard to work with
around fittings.

One of the weaknesses AND strengths of metal piping is that it is rigid.
It's a weakness in my mind because you have to be exact with your
measurments and cuts. It's a strength because it supplies a way for you to
lever it and hold it in position.

With PEX I found at least, was that for instance at a sink fitting the PEX
line just kind of hung out in the open - so that the connection to the sink
fitting was swaying and bending and generally looked sloppy and unsecure.
Now you can secure that by getting a PEX to pipe connection but again
because PEX doesn't provide any leverage because it isn't rigid, if the pipe
connection isn't solid enough you have no way to tighten it - the PEX will
simply torque with your wrench. Now if it's a solder joint, you'd have to
dissasemble the PEX to fix a bad joint - otherwise your torch would melt the
PEX.

Now for long runs it looks very attractive to me - for instance in my
crawlspace I have a straight 20' run to the water heater. No reason to buy
a whole bunch of expensive copper pipe if I can use 5 bucks of PEX line
straight to the heater. I think metal pipe is good for fixture fittings,
but for long runs PEX is more cost effective.

At terminations, I think drop ear elbows would be the best
choice....along with bend supports

http://www.pexsupply.com/Categories....D=541&brandid=

http://www.pexsupply.com/categories....D=480&brandid=


or maybe

http://www.pexsupply.com/Categories....D=421&brandid=


cheers
Bob

Eigenvector wrote:
I'm thinking that at this point I'll need a plumber to do this, but wanted
to toss this idea out first.

I'm trying to replace the galvanized hot water pipe to my kitchen - it's
rusted shut as galvanized is want to do over time. Anyways, the pipe is in
the crawlspace, elbows into the sill plate, elbows vertical in the wall,
then elbows out of the wall inside the sink cabinet. The sill plate hole is
filled with concrete.

I just can't see myself getting that pipe out of there without major
construction. The best bet I have is to cut the pipe at the sill plate then
pull it out of the wall under the cabinet. Maybe do-able but I'll never be
able to run the new pipe using that same route. I just can't see it
happening. So here's what I was wondering. Would it be kosher to simply
drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet, through the underlayment and avoid
all those nasty joints? That way it's a simple down, elbow to the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with bringing
in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it myself so long
as it's feasible.



In the colder latitudes the routing you suggest is now required. The
plumbing code often forbids running water pipe in outside walls in
colder climates now.
--
Tom Horne

On Feb 24, 12:31 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
I'm thinking that at this point I'll need a plumber to do this, but wanted
to toss this idea out first.

I'm trying to replace the galvanized hot water pipe to my kitchen - it's
rusted shut as galvanized is want to do over time. Anyways, the pipe is in
the crawlspace, elbows into the sill plate, elbows vertical in the wall,
then elbows out of the wall inside the sink cabinet. The sill plate hole is
filled with concrete.

I just can't see myself getting that pipe out of there without major
construction. The best bet I have is to cut the pipe at the sill plate then
pull it out of the wall under the cabinet. Maybe do-able but I'll never be
able to run the new pipe using that same route. I just can't see it
happening. So here's what I was wondering. Would it be kosher to simply
drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet, through the underlayment and avoid
all those nasty joints? That way it's a simple down, elbow to the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with bringing
in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it myself so long
as it's feasible.

Buffalo ny: you will enjoy the results of upgrading from low water
flow providing you have your water main bringing in great water flow
to the basement washtubs. no S traps for drains. no water pipes
allowed in outside walls. check your local permit office to see what's
allowed or required to be used in your area. we prefer over sized
supply lines [one inch not 3/4" main] and water meters at replacement
time, to better enjoy full water flow at each fixture.

"BobK207" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Feb 24, 8:25 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
"dreamchaser" wrote in message

ups.com... If you buy
the right valves for the pex, you can fasten the valve to
hold it rigid. I'm a firm believer in pex pipe. It withstands freezing
better then anything else you will put back in and it's a heck of a
lot easier to work with. If you don't use pex, I think your next best
bet is cpvc. I wouldn't waste a minute with going back with galvanized
or copper. Insulate the cpvc in the crawl space if you live above the
North Carolina latitude.

Foam the hole you drill , from the crawl space/underside so critters
don't get up in the bottom of your cabinet, once you get the pipe back
in.

Galvanized pipe sucks for water lines. I had them in my old house in
Texas. My new house in NC is pex all the way.

I don't have any major heartburn with PEX, other than it's hard to work
with
around fittings.

One of the weaknesses AND strengths of metal piping is that it is rigid.
It's a weakness in my mind because you have to be exact with your
measurments and cuts. It's a strength because it supplies a way for you
to
lever it and hold it in position.

With PEX I found at least, was that for instance at a sink fitting the
PEX
line just kind of hung out in the open - so that the connection to the
sink
fitting was swaying and bending and generally looked sloppy and unsecure.
Now you can secure that by getting a PEX to pipe connection but again
because PEX doesn't provide any leverage because it isn't rigid, if the
pipe
connection isn't solid enough you have no way to tighten it - the PEX
will
simply torque with your wrench. Now if it's a solder joint, you'd have
to
dissasemble the PEX to fix a bad joint - otherwise your torch would melt
the
PEX.

Now for long runs it looks very attractive to me - for instance in my
crawlspace I have a straight 20' run to the water heater. No reason to
buy
a whole bunch of expensive copper pipe if I can use 5 bucks of PEX line
straight to the heater. I think metal pipe is good for fixture fittings,
but for long runs PEX is more cost effective.

At terminations, I think drop ear elbows would be the best
choice....along with bend supports

http://www.pexsupply.com/Categories....D=541&brandid=


I have plenty of those already, I don't find they hold very well and the
nail holes they provide are ridiculously small. Plus with PEX you have to
make sure that the line can move - at least in the hot water lines I've run
it will grow and shrink by 3 inches over 10 feet plus it will twist and turn
unpredictably. With that much movement you almost don't want to secure it
on either end for fear of putting too much pressure on the crimp, even
though the middle will snake around to compensate. Possibly just a lack of
confidence on my part in how durable PEX connections are.


http://www.pexsupply.com/categories....D=480&brandid=


A flange head isn't a bad idea. I might try that. I don't like the fact
that most of the PEX solutions are online only - there's something to be
said about touching something before buying.


or maybe

http://www.pexsupply.com/Categories....D=421&brandid=

I'm leary of using one of those near the plastic tubing - the pipe gets
pretty hot during soldering and if you have to fix a bad solder joint, the
PEX will have to come off or you risk having the same problem that
Polybutalene has. But if you cut the PEX, you had better have more slack to
pick up or you'll have to re-run the entire length from the last joint or
insert a second joint with a coupling.

Yeah yeah I know, gripe gripe gripe, bitch bitch moan. The more I get into
my house the more I realize the benefits of using proven technology over up
and coming ways. I find myself becoming far more conservative in what I'm
willing to risk.


cheers
Bob

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
I'm thinking that at this point I'll need a plumber to do this, but wanted
to toss this idea out first.

I'm trying to replace the galvanized hot water pipe to my kitchen - it's
rusted shut as galvanized is want to do over time. Anyways, the pipe is
in the crawlspace, elbows into the sill plate, elbows vertical in the
wall, then elbows out of the wall inside the sink cabinet. The sill plate
hole is filled with concrete.

I just can't see myself getting that pipe out of there without major
construction. The best bet I have is to cut the pipe at the sill plate
then pull it out of the wall under the cabinet. Maybe do-able but I'll
never be able to run the new pipe using that same route. I just can't see
it happening. So here's what I was wondering. Would it be kosher to
simply drill a hole in the floor of the cabinet, through the underlayment
and avoid all those nasty joints? That way it's a simple down, elbow to
the source.

It's either that or I bring in a professional. Nothing wrong with
bringing in a professional of course, but I really would like to do it
myself so long as it's feasible.

Well at any rate I replaced the line. I used PEX for the run and I am super
glad that I did. 1) I'm still pretty dangerous with a propane torch and my
soldering skills frankly suck right now (I'm working on that). 2) The
access to the space was terrible. Even if it wasn't for the monstrous
spiders stalking the corners and hideous undead guarding the treasure
chests - oops sorry I'm confusing the crawlspace for a D&D dungeon. Anyway
the access to terrible and the first hole I drilled just wasn't going to
work - smack right up against the joist between the floor and the
foundation. So I drilled again and got a good spot this time. Sucks
because I have to patch a hole in my cabinet - but at least I wasn't fussing
around with copper pipe setting the house on fire. I need to get a longer
flex hose for the faucet connector but overall it's pretty damn good. Nice
water flow instead of that trickle I was living with. Still won't have good
pressure until the entire cold and hot water lines are replaced, but for now
it works.