Hi:

Can I replace a single switch that's currently controlling a
receptacle, with a combination fan/light switch to use for a new
ceiling fan?
I want to run 14-3 for a new ceiling fan installation to the current
switch, make the current switched outlet always hot and replace the
switch with a combination switch.
My main question is, can this combination switch be used from one hot
wire that was used in the single switch and it will control the light
and fan separately?

THANKS in advance for any help!!!!

Hi Joe,

Yes, you can. I did it at my house and its fairly easy. You are correct
that you should be using 14-3 as you need the two seperately switched
hots (1 for light, 1 for fan). Also you will need two half-height
switches so that you can have 2 switches in 1 wall box. It gets a bit
cramped in th ebox but patience pprevails.

I did 2 and the first (including running the wiring in the walls and up
to the ceiling too about 3 hous and the second time it took barely an
hour.

Good luck!


Joe wrote:
Hi:

Can I replace a single switch that's currently controlling a
receptacle, with a combination fan/light switch to use for a new
ceiling fan?
I want to run 14-3 for a new ceiling fan installation to the current
switch, make the current switched outlet always hot and replace the
switch with a combination switch.
My main question is, can this combination switch be used from one hot
wire that was used in the single switch and it will control the light
and fan separately?

THANKS in advance for any help!!!!

Viewer wrote:

Yes, you can. I did it at my house and its fairly easy. You are correct
that you should be using 14-3 as you need the two seperately switched
hots (1 for light, 1 for fan). Also you will need two half-height
switches so that you can have 2 switches in 1 wall box. It gets a bit
cramped in th ebox but patience pprevails.

Joe wrote:
Can I replace a single switch that's currently controlling a
receptacle, with a combination fan/light switch to use for a new
ceiling fan?

V & J:

First: I am not an electrician, but a homeowner. I am telling you what
I
would do. You will need to comply with the AHJ in your area and use
sufficient knowledge & workmanship for a safe installation.

I'd advise to replace the single-gang box with a double, and make it
nice
and big. Using an old work box, this will not be hard (but be careful
not to
jigsaw the cables, and don't ask why I warned about that) and the two
$2 or so switches, plus the box, will cost no more than one
double-switch
device. I find it's nicer to work with single switches and shallow,
wider
boxes.

I am assuming you are using a box listed for fan support, and throwing
away the cheapie fan mfr wire connectors and using Ideal yellow wire
nuts,
and maintaining a workmanship standard that will meet approval of the
AHJ.

First situation: one 14/2 entering the old box, one 14/2 leaving the
box, to
end at the switched light. Replace 14/2 from switch to light with 14/3
for
fan/light control.

Wall box size required:
1 - 14/2, 2 conductor allowances
1 - 14/3, 3 " "
Grounds, 1 " " for all
Clamps, 1 " " (if internal clamps used)
Devices - 1 dual switch (2 allowances) or 2 single (2 x 2 = 4
allowances)

Total allowances required: 9 for dual switch, 11 for two single.
Volume per allowance for 14 AWG = 2.00 cu in.

You will need a 18 cu in box (3 1/2" deep device box) for the dual
switch
or 22 cu in (two 2 1/2" deep device boxes ganged together) for the two
singles.
Box types given are steel; plastic boxes are marked with volume.

Connections:
Wire nut both neutrals together. Connect two pigtails to hot of 14/2
feed,
run one pigtail to each switch. Other terminal from each switch goes
to
one hot of the 14/3. At the fan, the 14/3 neutral goes to the fan's
neutral;
one hot goes to the fan, the other to the light. Connect grounds
properly and
use good workmanship as usual.

Second situation: Power fed at ceiling light. One 14/2 cable enters
wall box,
used as switch loop. Both conductors at box connected to switch.
Replace with 14/3 switch loop.

Wall box size required:
1 - 14/3, 3 conductor allowances
Grounds, 1 " " for all
Clamps, 1 " " (if internal clamps used)
Devices - 1 dual switch (2 allowances) or 2 single (2 x 2 = 4
allowances)

Total allowances required: 7 for dual switch, 9 for two single.
Volume per allowance for 14 AWG = 2.00 cu in.

You will need a 14 cu in box (2 1/2" deep device box) for the dual
switch
or 18 cu in (two 2" deep device boxes ganged together, but two 2 1/4"
or
deeper would be better) for the two singles.
Box types given are steel; plastic boxes are marked with volume.

Connections:
Connect the fan's neutral to the neutral of the 14/2 feed in the
ceiling
box. Connect one hot from the fan to the factory-marked black hot
of the 14/3; the other hot from the fan to the red.

Permanently reidentify the neutral of the switch loop as hot. Connect
the hot of the ceiling-box feeder to the reidentified former neutral of
the
switch loop. Connect two pigtails (black) to the reidentified neutral
in the wall box, one pigtail going to each switch. Connect the red
switch-loop conductor to one switch, the factory-marked black to the
other. Make all necessary grounds and use good workmanship.

Remember, follow all safety precautions. Pull a permit and get the
work
inspected. Usenet is no place to learn everything about electrical
work.

Cordially yours:
G P

Joe wrote:
Hi:

Can I replace a single switch that's currently controlling a
receptacle, with a combination fan/light switch to use for a new
ceiling fan?
I want to run 14-3 for a new ceiling fan installation to the current
switch, make the current switched outlet always hot and replace the
switch with a combination switch.

J:

Crud. I misread what you posted. So you have one 14/2 in, one 14/2
to the switched receptacle, and one 14/2, switched, out to the ceiling
box.
I am ASSuming the switched receptacle is in another box.

Box size needed:

14/2 feed - 2 cond. allowances
14/2 to switch - 2 " "
14/3 to fan - 3 " "
Grounds - 1 " "
Clamps - 1 " "
Devices - 2 " " if dual switch; 4 " " if two singles (pref.)

Total - 11 if dual, 13 if single.
Allowance for 14 awg - 2.00 cu in per.

You will need 22 cu in for a dual switch (4S, 1 1/2" deep, with 1/4"
mud ring min)
or 26 cu in for two single (two 2 3/4" deep device boxes, ganged). You
will need
a new box anyway, so might as well go with the two singles.

Connections:

Wire nut all neutrals together.
Connect hot from 14/2 feed, hot from switched outlet, and two pigtails.
One hot pigtail goes to each switch.
One hot from the 14/3 goes to each switch.
At the fan, connect fan neutral to 14/3 neutral. Connect one hot to
light,
other hot to fan. Connect all grounds properly. Use good workmanship.

Remember to throw out those cheesy fan mfr wire nuts and use yellow
Ideal or other decent connectors. Get a permit and have the work
properly
approved by the AHJ. Be advised that I have posted far less than you
need
to know about this job; I am not an electrician but a homeowner, and
the
Usenet is no place to learn everything about electrical work.

Cordially yours:
G P

On 10 Nov 2006 08:05:00 -0800, "Viewer" wrote:

Hi Joe,

Yes, you can. I did it at my house and its fairly easy. You are correct
that you should be using 14-3 as you need the two seperately switched
hots (1 for light, 1 for fan). Also you will need two half-height
switches so that you can have 2 switches in 1 wall box. It gets a bit
cramped in th ebox but patience pprevails.

I did 2 and the first (including running the wiring in the walls and up
to the ceiling too about 3 hous and the second time it took barely an
hour.

Good luck!


Lowe's does have switches like that. They're available with 2 or 3
switches and fit in a single 1-gang box. One terminal of the switches
is common.


Joe wrote:
Hi:

Can I replace a single switch that's currently controlling a
receptacle, with a combination fan/light switch to use for a new
ceiling fan?
I want to run 14-3 for a new ceiling fan installation to the current
switch, make the current switched outlet always hot and replace the
switch with a combination switch.
My main question is, can this combination switch be used from one hot
wire that was used in the single switch and it will control the light
and fan separately?

THANKS in advance for any help!!!!
--
45 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10 Nov 2006 08:05:00 -0800, "Viewer" wrote:


Hi Joe,

Yes, you can. I did it at my house and its fairly easy. You are correct
that you should be using 14-3 as you need the two seperately switched
hots (1 for light, 1 for fan). Also you will need two half-height
switches so that you can have 2 switches in 1 wall box. It gets a bit
cramped in th ebox but patience pprevails.

I did 2 and the first (including running the wiring in the walls and up
to the ceiling too about 3 hous and the second time it took barely an
hour.

Good luck!



Lowe's does have switches like that. They're available with 2 or 3
switches and fit in a single 1-gang box. One terminal of the switches
is common.

Similar question: does anyone make a switch for a ceiling fan without a
light switch? I have a two gang box that used to contain a light switch
and a receptacle and I want to get rid of the receptacle (there's
another one down near the floor; I'm sure there was a reason for putting
it there but I don't see it and it looks silly.) Am thinking of putting
a ceiling fan in the kitchen anyway so this would kill two birds with
one stone and save me from having to patch the wall.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

Nate Nagel wrote:
Similar question: does anyone make a switch for a ceiling fan without a
light switch? I have a two gang box that used to contain a light switch
and a receptacle and I want to get rid of the receptacle (there's
another one down near the floor; I'm sure there was a reason for putting
it there but I don't see it and it looks silly.) Am thinking of putting
a ceiling fan in the kitchen anyway so this would kill two birds with
one stone and save me from having to patch the wall.

NN:

An ordinary single-pole light switch will do to turn the fan on and
off.

Cordially yours:
G P

On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:05:17 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 10 Nov 2006 08:05:00 -0800, "Viewer" wrote:


Hi Joe,

Yes, you can. I did it at my house and its fairly easy. You are correct
that you should be using 14-3 as you need the two seperately switched
hots (1 for light, 1 for fan). Also you will need two half-height
switches so that you can have 2 switches in 1 wall box. It gets a bit
cramped in th ebox but patience pprevails.

I did 2 and the first (including running the wiring in the walls and up
to the ceiling too about 3 hous and the second time it took barely an
hour.

Good luck!



Lowe's does have switches like that. They're available with 2 or 3
switches and fit in a single 1-gang box. One terminal of the switches
is common.

Similar question: does anyone make a switch for a ceiling fan without a
light switch? I have a two gang box that used to contain a light switch
and a receptacle and I want to get rid of the receptacle (there's
another one down near the floor; I'm sure there was a reason for putting
it there but I don't see it and it looks silly.) Am thinking of putting
a ceiling fan in the kitchen anyway so this would kill two birds with
one stone and save me from having to patch the wall.

nate

Is the problem what to put in the other side of that box? I'd leave
the receptacle. It doesn't hurt anything and you may want it there
someday. If you don't want to look at it (I don't see why, but some
people are strange that way), you could put some tape (in your
preferred color) over it, or cover it with wallpaper.

I find receptacles at switch-height desirable. They're easier to reach
when you want to plug something in temporarily, and are less often
hidden behind things like the lower outlets often are.

As to the switch being fan-only, most fan/light combinations have
separate hot wires for fan and light (should be black for fan, blue
for light), so there's no problem wiring it the way you want.

You could also install 2 switches, separate ones for fan and light.
what I would do is leave the receptacle, and install a 2-switch unit
for light and fan.

--
44 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:05:17 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 10 Nov 2006 08:05:00 -0800, "Viewer" wrote:



Hi Joe,

Yes, you can. I did it at my house and its fairly easy. You are correct
that you should be using 14-3 as you need the two seperately switched
hots (1 for light, 1 for fan). Also you will need two half-height
switches so that you can have 2 switches in 1 wall box. It gets a bit
cramped in th ebox but patience pprevails.

I did 2 and the first (including running the wiring in the walls and up
to the ceiling too about 3 hous and the second time it took barely an
hour.

Good luck!



Lowe's does have switches like that. They're available with 2 or 3
switches and fit in a single 1-gang box. One terminal of the switches
is common.

Similar question: does anyone make a switch for a ceiling fan without a
light switch? I have a two gang box that used to contain a light switch
and a receptacle and I want to get rid of the receptacle (there's
another one down near the floor; I'm sure there was a reason for putting
it there but I don't see it and it looks silly.) Am thinking of putting
a ceiling fan in the kitchen anyway so this would kill two birds with
one stone and save me from having to patch the wall.

nate


Is the problem what to put in the other side of that box?

yup, that's exactly the problem.

I'd leave
the receptacle. It doesn't hurt anything and you may want it there
someday. If you don't want to look at it (I don't see why, but some
people are strange that way), you could put some tape (in your
preferred color) over it, or cover it with wallpaper.

I find receptacles at switch-height desirable. They're easier to reach
when you want to plug something in temporarily, and are less often
hidden behind things like the lower outlets often are.

As to the switch being fan-only, most fan/light combinations have
separate hot wires for fan and light (should be black for fan, blue
for light), so there's no problem wiring it the way you want.

You could also install 2 switches, separate ones for fan and light.
what I would do is leave the receptacle, and install a 2-switch unit
for light and fan.


The problem is that the easiest way to rewire things on separate
circuits the way I'd want it would be to feed the circuit from elsewhere
(because currently the feed comes up from below, but is 14 AWG and is
connected to the 20A clothes washer receptacle in the basement... yeah,
I need to fix that) and leave the 3-wire cable going to the ceiling box
as a switch leg, so there'd be no neutral (or ground, for that matter -
but since there's only one other receptacle on the whole circuit, it's
not such a huge issue) available. Otherwise, to provide a receptacle,
I'd have to pull a 14/2 up from below past a box that's directly below
it that also has a receptacle in it. *THAT* receptacle I wanted to turn
into a 20A recep. for the microwave which sits on a cart next to this
whole area. I'm not sure how good my wire fishing skills are; I don't
have a whole lot of patience for things like that...

What I was thinking was a variable speed switch for the fan would be
nice, but most of the ones I've seen are combination fan and light
switches that fit in a single gang box.

nate

--
replace "fly" with "com" to reply.
http://home.comcast.net/~njnagel

On Sat, 11 Nov 2006 19:27:40 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On Fri, 10 Nov 2006 21:05:17 -0500, Nate Nagel
wrote:


Mark Lloyd wrote:

On 10 Nov 2006 08:05:00 -0800, "Viewer" wrote:



Hi Joe,

Yes, you can. I did it at my house and its fairly easy. You are correct
that you should be using 14-3 as you need the two seperately switched
hots (1 for light, 1 for fan). Also you will need two half-height
switches so that you can have 2 switches in 1 wall box. It gets a bit
cramped in th ebox but patience pprevails.

I did 2 and the first (including running the wiring in the walls and up
to the ceiling too about 3 hous and the second time it took barely an
hour.

Good luck!



Lowe's does have switches like that. They're available with 2 or 3
switches and fit in a single 1-gang box. One terminal of the switches
is common.

Similar question: does anyone make a switch for a ceiling fan without a
light switch? I have a two gang box that used to contain a light switch
and a receptacle and I want to get rid of the receptacle (there's
another one down near the floor; I'm sure there was a reason for putting
it there but I don't see it and it looks silly.) Am thinking of putting
a ceiling fan in the kitchen anyway so this would kill two birds with
one stone and save me from having to patch the wall.

nate


Is the problem what to put in the other side of that box?

yup, that's exactly the problem.

I'd leave
the receptacle. It doesn't hurt anything and you may want it there
someday. If you don't want to look at it (I don't see why, but some
people are strange that way), you could put some tape (in your
preferred color) over it, or cover it with wallpaper.

I find receptacles at switch-height desirable. They're easier to reach
when you want to plug something in temporarily, and are less often
hidden behind things like the lower outlets often are.

As to the switch being fan-only, most fan/light combinations have
separate hot wires for fan and light (should be black for fan, blue
for light), so there's no problem wiring it the way you want.

You could also install 2 switches, separate ones for fan and light.
what I would do is leave the receptacle, and install a 2-switch unit
for light and fan.


The problem is that the easiest way to rewire things on separate
circuits the way I'd want it would be to feed the circuit from elsewhere
(because currently the feed comes up from below, but is 14 AWG and is
connected to the 20A clothes washer receptacle in the basement... yeah,
I need to fix that) and leave the 3-wire cable going to the ceiling box
as a switch leg, so there'd be no neutral (or ground, for that matter -
but since there's only one other receptacle on the whole circuit, it's
not such a huge issue) available. Otherwise, to provide a receptacle,
I'd have to pull a 14/2 up from below past a box that's directly below
it that also has a receptacle in it. *THAT* receptacle I wanted to turn
into a 20A recep. for the microwave which sits on a cart next to this
whole area. I'm not sure how good my wire fishing skills are; I don't
have a whole lot of patience for things like that...

What I was thinking was a variable speed switch for the fan would be
nice, but most of the ones I've seen are combination fan and light
switches that fit in a single gang box.

nate

I think I've seen fan-only once, but may be mistaken. Maybe use a
combination, and don't connect the light part?

Nate Nagel wrote:
Similar question: does anyone make a switch for a ceiling fan without a
light switch?

Nate: Yes, this switch does exist. I purchased one a few years back
at Home Depot. If they don't carry it anymore, then google "Four-speed
Fan Wall Control switch" and it should be what your looking for.

Good Luck!

--Joe