Hi all,

I'm quite confident wiring some baseboards that I need to install...
they're 240V, various sizes.

What I'm not sure of is how to have multiple baseboards on the same
circuit? Can I do it with a 2-conductor wire (as both conductors are
"hot")?

I've been scouring the net looking for a diagram of the circuit from...
say... breaker--baseboard#1--baseboard#2--baseboard#3

I assume also that multiple thermostats could be wired in before each
heater to control that specific heater independantly from others on the
circuit.. (or alternatively have one thermostat at the beginning of the
circuit that would then limit all heaters on the circuit.

Any help greatly appreciated!!

Sincerely,

Chris

I'm not an electrician, just a home owner with electric heat.

I believe the correct thing to do is to wire them in series with 1
thermostat.

-------------heater-----------heater
-------------heater|
power ===== therm
|

-----------------------------------------------------------------|

not

------------------ -------------------
----------
power heater heater
heater
-------------------- -------------------
----------


but I am sure smarter people will answer, so listen to them.

wrote:
Hi all,

I'm quite confident wiring some baseboards that I need to install...
they're 240V, various sizes.

What I'm not sure of is how to have multiple baseboards on the same
circuit? Can I do it with a 2-conductor wire (as both conductors are
"hot")?

I've been scouring the net looking for a diagram of the circuit from...
say... breaker--baseboard#1--baseboard#2--baseboard#3

I assume also that multiple thermostats could be wired in before each
heater to control that specific heater independantly from others on the
circuit.. (or alternatively have one thermostat at the beginning of the
circuit that would then limit all heaters on the circuit.

Any help greatly appreciated!!

Sincerely,

Chris

wrote:
Hi all,

I'm quite confident wiring some baseboards that I need to install...
they're 240V, various sizes.

What I'm not sure of is how to have multiple baseboards on the same
circuit? Can I do it with a 2-conductor wire (as both conductors are
"hot")?

I've been scouring the net looking for a diagram of the circuit from...
say... breaker--baseboard#1--baseboard#2--baseboard#3

I assume also that multiple thermostats could be wired in before each
heater to control that specific heater independantly from others on the
circuit.. (or alternatively have one thermostat at the beginning of the
circuit that would then limit all heaters on the circuit.

Any help greatly appreciated!!

If they have provision for ground connection (like, to enable tripping
breaker
if a short) or the mfg makes any mention of such, or if it's possible
and your
inspector wants it, I'd sure run 3-wire. Inspector trumps all. Hell,
I'd run ground
wire on principle.

All devices (thermostats, breakers, wires, heaters) must be run within
rated limits at all times, meaning for wiring carrying all the load
(before branching)
and breakers allowed limit is 80% of breaker rating.

You want to map out the circuit much more clearly, noting all load
ratings,
carefully. Note mfg's requirements for heaters and see to them. Ensure
that all
wiring segments will be within 80% of rating for worst case and ensure
that all wiring
meets NEC requirements. Stuff like wire gauge, breaker rating,
workmanship.

Sure, you can connect in parallel, series-connected thermostats and
heaters.

Heaters can put some serious sustained stress on wiring and
connections, so
I'd suggest getting some professional advice beforehand, and inspection
before
powering it up. No disrespect intended, but your question triggers
alarms.

Besides, unless you've got your own power-station, resistive electric
heaters
are about the most wasteful way to heat a house.

HTH,
J

My two cents. Might also want to ensure you figure in the length of wire
to be used. There is some resistance (power loss) for longer runs.

wrote:
Hi all,

I'm quite confident wiring some baseboards that I need to install...
they're 240V, various sizes.

What I'm not sure of is how to have multiple baseboards on the same
circuit? Can I do it with a 2-conductor wire (as both conductors are
"hot")?

I've been scouring the net looking for a diagram of the circuit from...
say... breaker--baseboard#1--baseboard#2--baseboard#3

I assume also that multiple thermostats could be wired in before each
heater to control that specific heater independantly from others on the
circuit.. (or alternatively have one thermostat at the beginning of the
circuit that would then limit all heaters on the circuit.

Any help greatly appreciated!!

Sincerely,

Chris

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all,

I'm quite confident wiring some baseboards that I need to install...
they're 240V, various sizes.

What I'm not sure of is how to have multiple baseboards on the same
circuit? Can I do it with a 2-conductor wire (as both conductors are
"hot")?

It is easy enough to wire, but bear in mind that the breaker and all the
associated wire must be large enough to carry the current required by three
heaters. Unless they are tiny, that is a problem.

My cottage had three 15a baseboards with #12 wire and a 50a breaker. It
also had a 23a water heater on #12 with a 30a breaker. Amazing it didn't
burn down in the 35 years it was like that.

You have to calculate the total load you want on each circuit, then use
cables large enough to carry that load. Typically you would run the feed
from the breaker box to a wall thermostat location, daisy chain the feed to
another wall thermostat location, on and on until you've use up the capacity
of the feed. From each wall thermostat location you would run the cables to
the heaters controlled by those thermostats


wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all,

I'm quite confident wiring some baseboards that I need to install...
they're 240V, various sizes.

What I'm not sure of is how to have multiple baseboards on the same
circuit? Can I do it with a 2-conductor wire (as both conductors are
"hot")?

I've been scouring the net looking for a diagram of the circuit from...
say... breaker--baseboard#1--baseboard#2--baseboard#3

I assume also that multiple thermostats could be wired in before each
heater to control that specific heater independantly from others on the
circuit.. (or alternatively have one thermostat at the beginning of the
circuit that would then limit all heaters on the circuit.

Any help greatly appreciated!!

Sincerely,

Chris

wrote:
Besides, unless you've got your own power-station, resistive electric
heaters are about the most wasteful way to heat a house.

Care to expand on that?
Electric heaters turn all the the electricity they consume into heat.
So it then comes down to how much does electricity the cost in
comparsion to other 'fuels'.
We have used electric baseboards for the last 36 years.
Maintenance costs have been virtually nil; no heaters have burnt out or
needed replacement. Whereas if we had used fuel oil, or propane etc.
there would have been furnace repairs, chimney flue cleaning etc.
So just curious as to why baseboard heaters are 'wasteful'?
Terry

Hi all,

Thank you very much for your responses.

No disrespect taken... I appreciate all your help and your sound
advice. I'll give you some more details on what I've got going so far.
Hopefully that will both allow you to help me out a little more and
ease any concerns.

I have a large supply of standard 12/2 wiring with bare ground (so max
20A, 16A being "common sense") ... which is why I asked. If required I
would certainly purchase 3 conductor if I have to, but the cost of
copper these days is so prohibitive, I was hoping to use what I have on
hand.

Apparently the new electrical code coming into force (at least here in
BC, Canada) actually allows 100% load on the wire, that said, every
professional I have talked to is still abiding by the 80% rule, which
just seems like good common sense to me. So that's what I'll do.

I'm just trying to plan out my circuits before I start seriously
feeding wire.... so here are two examples, is something like this
doable?

Circuit #1:
Living Room: 2500W - room stat
Bathroom #1: 500W - stat-on-heater
Bathroom #2: 500W - stat-on-heater
3500W = 14.5A (240V) or 15.9A (220V)

Circuit #2:
Dining Room: 1500W room stat
Kitchen: 1000W room stat
Bedroom: 1000W - room stat
3500W = 14.5A (240V) or 15.9A (220V)

Those loads should keep me in an acceptable range... obviously below
code.

My question centers more around actual wiring. Is there any benefit in
terms of load sharing / wear to series vs. parallel?

Do I use the connections on both ends of the heaters (they have
identical connections on both ends for convenience) to "pass through",
or simply connect them through wirenuts on the same end.

And as for the question of efficiency, we looked at all the options
when replacing our oil furnace and baseboard was the only realistic and
affordable option for us. (heat-pump, retrofit too expensive... gas,
price too volatile + retrofit... radiant floor -- inappropriate
softwood flooring) Also, considering 100% of the energy you put into an
electric baseboard gets turned into heat, it's actually *more*
effecient than oil, gas, or wood furnaces in terms of energy use. The
actual effective heat you get out of it comes down to the efficiency of
your house as a whole, which affects all heating systems equally.

Baseboard gives us both ease of installation/expansion, cheap long-term
energy (BC has cheapest power in North America), virtually nil
maintenance costs, and flexibility to turn off unused portions of the
house.

Hi all,

Thank you very much for your responses.

No disrespect taken... I appreciate all your help and your sound
advice. I'll give you some more details on what I've got going so far.
Hopefully that will both allow you to help me out a little more and
ease any concerns.

I have a large supply of standard 12/2 wiring with bare ground (so max
20A, 16A being "common sense") ... which is why I asked. If required I
would certainly purchase 3 conductor if I have to, but the cost of
copper these days is so prohibitive, I was hoping to use what I have on
hand.

Apparently the new electrical code coming into force (at least here in
BC, Canada) actually allows 100% load on the wire, that said, every
professional I have talked to is still abiding by the 80% rule, which
just seems like good common sense to me. So that's what I'll do.

I'm just trying to plan out my circuits before I start seriously
feeding wire.... so here are two examples, is something like this
doable?

Circuit #1:
Living Room: 2500W - room stat
Bathroom #1: 500W - stat-on-heater
Bathroom #2: 500W - stat-on-heater
3500W = 14.5A (240V) or 15.9A (220V)

Circuit #2:
Dining Room: 1500W room stat
Kitchen: 1000W room stat
Bedroom: 1000W - room stat
3500W = 14.5A (240V) or 15.9A (220V)

Those loads should keep me in an acceptable range... obviously below
code.

My question centers more around actual wiring. Is there any benefit in
terms of load sharing / wear to series vs. parallel?

Do I use the connections on both ends of the heaters (they have
identical connections on both ends for convenience) to "pass through",
or simply connect them through wirenuts on the same end.

And as for the question of efficiency, we looked at all the options
when replacing our oil furnace and baseboard was the only realistic and
affordable option for us. (heat-pump, retrofit too expensive... gas,
price too volatile + retrofit... radiant floor -- inappropriate
softwood flooring) Also, considering 100% of the energy you put into an
electric baseboard gets turned into heat, it's actually *more*
effecient than oil, gas, or wood furnaces in terms of energy use. The
actual effective heat you get out of it comes down to the efficiency of
your house as a whole, which affects all heating systems equally.

Baseboard gives us both ease of installation/expansion, cheap long-term
energy (BC has cheapest power in North America), virtually nil
maintenance costs, and flexibility to turn off unused portions of the
house.

I guess it depends on if your costs for electricity is cheaper than cost of
gas it would be cheaper for electric, we have a 85% efficiency furnace, uses
pvc pipe for chimney and outside air intake, so i would say that most of the
gas (propane) is being turned into heat. our electrical costs here are not
as bad as they neighboring state but still cost prohibitive to run all
baseboard heating for main source of heating. i imagine that 80% of wire
load with all units connectd in series works, cant see why you would put
individual thermostats on heaters in the same room though. Different rooms
to create custom heating zones seems almost a no-brainer if you got the
hardware.

You never put the baseboard units in series, always in parallel. and the
heaters have wiring boxes on both ends just so you have a choice where to
run the feed. You leave one end wire nutted together. If you are connecting
more than one heater together, run both feed in and feed out cables into one
junction box on the heater and parallel them along with the heater
conductors, then jump to the next heater. Also, there would be absolutely no
reason to run three conductor cable, 12/2 gives you 240 volts + ground,
which is all you need



wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi all,

Thank you very much for your responses.

No disrespect taken... I appreciate all your help and your sound
advice. I'll give you some more details on what I've got going so far.
Hopefully that will both allow you to help me out a little more and
ease any concerns.

I have a large supply of standard 12/2 wiring with bare ground (so max
20A, 16A being "common sense") ... which is why I asked. If required I
would certainly purchase 3 conductor if I have to, but the cost of
copper these days is so prohibitive, I was hoping to use what I have on
hand.

Apparently the new electrical code coming into force (at least here in
BC, Canada) actually allows 100% load on the wire, that said, every
professional I have talked to is still abiding by the 80% rule, which
just seems like good common sense to me. So that's what I'll do.

I'm just trying to plan out my circuits before I start seriously
feeding wire.... so here are two examples, is something like this
doable?

Circuit #1:
Living Room: 2500W - room stat
Bathroom #1: 500W - stat-on-heater
Bathroom #2: 500W - stat-on-heater
3500W = 14.5A (240V) or 15.9A (220V)

Circuit #2:
Dining Room: 1500W room stat
Kitchen: 1000W room stat
Bedroom: 1000W - room stat
3500W = 14.5A (240V) or 15.9A (220V)

Those loads should keep me in an acceptable range... obviously below
code.

My question centers more around actual wiring. Is there any benefit in
terms of load sharing / wear to series vs. parallel?

Do I use the connections on both ends of the heaters (they have
identical connections on both ends for convenience) to "pass through",
or simply connect them through wirenuts on the same end.

And as for the question of efficiency, we looked at all the options
when replacing our oil furnace and baseboard was the only realistic and
affordable option for us. (heat-pump, retrofit too expensive... gas,
price too volatile + retrofit... radiant floor -- inappropriate
softwood flooring) Also, considering 100% of the energy you put into an
electric baseboard gets turned into heat, it's actually *more*
effecient than oil, gas, or wood furnaces in terms of energy use. The
actual effective heat you get out of it comes down to the efficiency of
your house as a whole, which affects all heating systems equally.

Baseboard gives us both ease of installation/expansion, cheap long-term
energy (BC has cheapest power in North America), virtually nil
maintenance costs, and flexibility to turn off unused portions of the
house.

excellent that is exactly what i needed to know

thanks!

Chris

RBM (remove this) wrote:
You never put the baseboard units in series, always in parallel. and the
heaters have wiring boxes on both ends just so you have a choice where to
run the feed. You leave one end wire nutted together. If you are connecting
more than one heater together, run both feed in and feed out cables into one
junction box on the heater and parallel them along with the heater
conductors, then jump to the next heater. Also, there would be absolutely no
reason to run three conductor cable, 12/2 gives you 240 volts + ground,
which is all you need



wrote in message
ps.com...
Hi all,

Thank you very much for your responses.

No disrespect taken... I appreciate all your help and your sound
advice. I'll give you some more details on what I've got going so far.
Hopefully that will both allow you to help me out a little more and
ease any concerns.

I have a large supply of standard 12/2 wiring with bare ground (so max
20A, 16A being "common sense") ... which is why I asked. If required I
would certainly purchase 3 conductor if I have to, but the cost of
copper these days is so prohibitive, I was hoping to use what I have on
hand.

Apparently the new electrical code coming into force (at least here in
BC, Canada) actually allows 100% load on the wire, that said, every
professional I have talked to is still abiding by the 80% rule, which
just seems like good common sense to me. So that's what I'll do.

I'm just trying to plan out my circuits before I start seriously
feeding wire.... so here are two examples, is something like this
doable?

Circuit #1:
Living Room: 2500W - room stat
Bathroom #1: 500W - stat-on-heater
Bathroom #2: 500W - stat-on-heater
3500W = 14.5A (240V) or 15.9A (220V)

Circuit #2:
Dining Room: 1500W room stat
Kitchen: 1000W room stat
Bedroom: 1000W - room stat
3500W = 14.5A (240V) or 15.9A (220V)

Those loads should keep me in an acceptable range... obviously below
code.

My question centers more around actual wiring. Is there any benefit in
terms of load sharing / wear to series vs. parallel?

Do I use the connections on both ends of the heaters (they have
identical connections on both ends for convenience) to "pass through",
or simply connect them through wirenuts on the same end.

And as for the question of efficiency, we looked at all the options
when replacing our oil furnace and baseboard was the only realistic and
affordable option for us. (heat-pump, retrofit too expensive... gas,
price too volatile + retrofit... radiant floor -- inappropriate
softwood flooring) Also, considering 100% of the energy you put into an
electric baseboard gets turned into heat, it's actually *more*
effecient than oil, gas, or wood furnaces in terms of energy use. The
actual effective heat you get out of it comes down to the efficiency of
your house as a whole, which affects all heating systems equally.

Baseboard gives us both ease of installation/expansion, cheap long-term
energy (BC has cheapest power in North America), virtually nil
maintenance costs, and flexibility to turn off unused portions of the
house.

Whats the OPs cost per KWH?

Around here its about a dime costs a fortune to heat with electric.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Whats the OPs cost per KWH?

Around here its about a dime costs a fortune to heat with electric.


Wish I could pay a dime. Her in CT, it is about 16¢

As of my current bill, BC Hydro (it's a government-owned company) the
residential rate is:
$0.06330 /kW.h ... and that's after a rate hike of I think 5% last
year.

so 6.3c "Canadian"... not sure if exchange rates make that much of a
difference when you're talking cents :+)

Chris
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Whats the OPs cost per KWH?

Around here its about a dime costs a fortune to heat with electric.


Wish I could pay a dime. Her in CT, it is about 16¢

According to :

Apparently the new electrical code coming into force (at least here in
BC, Canada) actually allows 100% load on the wire, that said, every
professional I have talked to is still abiding by the 80% rule, which
just seems like good common sense to me. So that's what I'll do.

To be precise: the new electrical code permits 100% load on the wire, but
still only 80% on the breaker. This is ONLY for electric heaters.

As an example: now you can put a 15A heater on 14ga feed with a 20A
breaker. Previously it had to be 12ga.

I'm just trying to plan out my circuits before I start seriously
feeding wire.... so here are two examples, is something like this
doable?

Your combinations look pretty reasonable.

My question centers more around actual wiring. Is there any benefit in
terms of load sharing / wear to series vs. parallel?

Electrically, you never connect devices in series - meaning, that the
current has to flow thru more than one device to complete a circuit.

Do I use the connections on both ends of the heaters (they have
identical connections on both ends for convenience) to "pass through",
or simply connect them through wirenuts on the same end.

You can't use both for passthrough. The electrical connections are
made at one end, the pair of wires at the other end are simply
wirenutted together.

And as for the question of efficiency, we looked at all the options
when replacing our oil furnace and baseboard was the only realistic and
affordable option for us. (heat-pump, retrofit too expensive... gas,
price too volatile + retrofit... radiant floor -- inappropriate
softwood flooring) Also, considering 100% of the energy you put into an
electric baseboard gets turned into heat, it's actually *more*
effecient than oil, gas, or wood furnaces in terms of energy use. The
actual effective heat you get out of it comes down to the efficiency of
your house as a whole, which affects all heating systems equally.

For the most part, gas and oil are cheaper than electric heat. While
electric heat is 100% efficient at converting the power that gets _to_them_
to heat, that's only part of the story - the other part is efficiency
at point of generation and transmission losses. You'd probably find that
a modern high efficiency gas furnace likely to be more efficient than
a gas powered generating station in terms of delivering watts to your door.

However, BC is largely hydro-power, but that has its own drawbacks.

Baseboard gives us both ease of installation/expansion, cheap long-term
energy (BC has cheapest power in North America), virtually nil
maintenance costs, and flexibility to turn off unused portions of the
house.

BC also has a rather more moderate heating season than many parts of
the US, let alone the rest of Canada.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On 25 Sep 2006 20:17:38 -0700, "terry"
wrote:


wrote:
Besides, unless you've got your own power-station, resistive electric
heaters are about the most wasteful way to heat a house.

Care to expand on that?
Electric heaters turn all the the electricity they consume into heat.
So it then comes down to how much does electricity the cost in
comparsion to other 'fuels'.
We have used electric baseboards for the last 36 years.
Maintenance costs have been virtually nil; no heaters have burnt out or
needed replacement. Whereas if we had used fuel oil, or propane etc.
there would have been furnace repairs, chimney flue cleaning etc.
So just curious as to why baseboard heaters are 'wasteful'?
Terry

You didn't consider where that electricity comes from, and how it gets
from there to your heaters..
--
90 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
-- George Washington

wrote in message
ups.com...
Hi all,

I'm quite confident wiring some baseboards that I need to install...
they're 240V, various sizes.

What I'm not sure of is how to have multiple baseboards on the same
circuit?

As others have stated, if the wire size (and thermostat capacity) sufficient
for the total load there isn't a problem. Two wire (plus ground) can and
is normally used.

Check the installation instructions for the baseboard heaters. They may
tell you EXACTLY how to wire several heaters in "multiple." Among other
"got yas" is the insulation temperature ratings of the wire. But, for
example, the instructions will tell you whether the heater housing is
considered a conduit for wiring purposes or do you have to run the wires for
the several units in the wall or below the floor.

Pays to read and understand the installtion instruction before you buy the
heaters.

wrote:
As of my current bill, BC Hydro (it's a government-owned company) the
residential rate is:
$0.06330 /kW.h ... and that's after a rate hike of I think 5% last
year.

so 6.3c "Canadian"... not sure if exchange rates make that much of a
difference when you're talking cents :+)

I think with the exchange rate you get 93 volts of 52 cycle power --
but if you take it into the states with you, you can get a refund of
the VAT if you keep your receipt.


Chris
Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Whats the OPs cost per KWH?

Around here its about a dime costs a fortune to heat with electric.


Wish I could pay a dime. Her in CT, it is about 16¢