I have a washer and dryer in downstairs bathroom and in winter I feel it is
stupid to vent it outside while the furnace is working hard on both heating
and humififying whole house. Will it do damage if I disconnect the outside
vent and send the output (through the old pantyhose filter) into the house?

fyi, Home Depot (and probably any hardware store) sells an inexpensive
kit for this that we use. It connects to the end of the dryer's output
tube and filters the lint. It works well, and does save on heating.

Probably not a good idea. First it violates code in most areas.
Second if it is a gas dryer there are gas fumes going into the house.
Third the moisture it generates will be very localized and could allow
mold growth. fourth, it will put a lot of lint into the house, as some
lint will still get through both the dryer lint filter as well as your
homemade filter. I have seen it done, there has always been a lot of
lint around the discharge. Seems like a good idea, but it is not.


Stretch

Stretch wrote:
Probably not a good idea.

First it violates code in most areas.

Really?

Second if it is a gas dryer there are gas fumes going into the house.

CO detector: $30. If it's not a gas dryer, you get only heat.

Third the moisture it generates will be very localized and could allow
mold growth.

Added humidity is generally good in the winter.

fourth, it will put a lot of lint into the house, as some
lint will still get through both the dryer lint filter as well as your
homemade filter.

Add an A/C filter (or a part of one): $1.00

I have seen it done, there has always been a lot of
lint around the discharge.

Conversely, how much lint does one see at the usual discharge outlet?

Seems like a good idea, but it is not.

Total cost to handle any downside problems: $31.00. Savings on heating bill:
unknown, but not insignificant.

Pawel wrote:
I have a washer and dryer in downstairs bathroom and in winter I feel
it is stupid to vent it outside while the furnace is working hard on
both heating and humififying whole house. Will it do damage if I
disconnect the outside vent and send the output (through the old
pantyhose filter) into the house?

First, do not consider this for a gas dryer. Second I don't suggest it
for an electric due to problems that have been reported, including: too much
interior moister build up, dust - lint, odor, reduced dryer efficiency due
to clogged filters or recycling moist air back to the dryer.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Pawel wrote:

I have a washer and dryer in downstairs bathroom and in winter I feel it is
stupid to vent it outside while the furnace is working hard on both heating
and humififying whole house. Will it do damage if I disconnect the outside
vent and send the output (through the old pantyhose filter) into the house?



I wonder if it would be cost effective for some company to produce a
heat exchanger combined with a small circulating fan for recovering that
heat? The fan could be switched on by a thermostat so that it only ran
when the hot air from the dryer warmed the unit up.

About 25 years ago I installed one of those commercial units which had a
manual flap valve for directing the hot exhaustair into the house when
desired (Electric dryer, no gas danger.) It did blow a lot of lint into
the room, even with a filter bag over the outlet. I wan't impressed
enough to get another one when we moved up to our next house.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

No offense, but you really shouldn't be trying to make "educated"
guesses, Stretch. Most of your response is pretty far off the
mark but not all.

"Stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
: Probably not a good idea. First it violates code in most
areas.

That's odd; not here in NY. Didn't in Chgo when I lived there.
Doesn't in Buffalo, NY. How/why would it violate code?

: Second if it is a gas dryer there are gas fumes going into the
house.
True, maybe ... but most gas dryers I know of and it's been a
long, long time since I've seen one, vent the gases up the
chimney and still shoot the clothing heat out the dryer vent
hose.
I seriously doubt any dryer dries the clothies in the
combusted air of the gas flames. They use a heat exchanger,
same's a furnace, the few that are around. That'd sure make the
clothes smell great, wouldn' t it?

: Third the moisture it generates will be very localized and
could allow
: mold growth.
Probably not since he's trying to distribute this around the
home. A dryer's also a low duty-cycle appliance - and just the
blower on most dryers would push the air well past any doorway -
they generate quite a breeze.

fourth, it will put a lot of lint into the house, as some
: lint will still get through both the dryer lint filter as well
as your
: homemade filter.
Not necessarily, not even most likely, although I'd suggest one
of the units made for that purpose instead of homemaking one, if
it can be afforded.

I have seen it done, there has always been a lot of
: lint around the discharge.
Same here; and quite successfully at that. I DO admit to a very
fine dust though, which settles in a white sort of mist in the
general area of the dryer so it does generate some dust. Nothing
of any consequence though if you normally clean your home.

Seems like a good idea, but it is not.

Seems like a good idea, and it CAN be a good idea. We use it
whenever the temps go down near zero or below (farenheit).
:
:
: Stretch
Yup, you did stretch just a bit, there g

Pop
:

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Pawel wrote:

I have a washer and dryer in downstairs bathroom and in winter I feel
it is stupid to vent it outside while the furnace is working hard on
both heating and humififying whole house. Will it do damage if I
disconnect the outside vent and send the output (through the old
pantyhose filter) into the house?


First, do not consider this for a gas dryer.



This question comes up often and one of the answers is *NO* if it's a
gas dryer. Gas ovens/stove tops 'vent' into the house. What's the
difference in the fumes from 3 hours of turkey roasting or some time
drying clothes with each appliance venting into the house? I know the
turkey smells better... Fumes is Fumes. Bake a cake for for an hour (or
whatever) or dry clothes for an hour?
I'm not saying that venting the gas fired dryer into the house is a good
thing, I just want to understand the rational of those who say don't do
it. Thanks.

--
Steve
southiowa

weltschmerz
Pronunciation: 'velt-"shmerts
Function: noun

: mental depression or apathy caused by comparison of the actual state
of the world with an ideal state

I've noticed the clothes will dry faster on less humid days than when it is
raining. So I suppose if you were to vent the dryer into the house, the
dryer intake air would be very humid and the dryer would have a difficult
time drying the clothes.

Basically you would be recirculating the moisture; out the dryer, then back
in again.

"HeyBub" wrote in message
...
Stretch wrote:
Probably not a good idea.

First it violates code in most areas.

Really?

Yep. Besides lint, there is some out gassing of some of the non-natural
fabric. If antone in your house is slightly allergic, that allergy will
come out FAST.

Second if it is a gas dryer there are gas fumes going into the house.

CO detector: $30. If it's not a gas dryer, you get only heat.

CO detectors sold inth e box stores are UL 2039 detectors. Read their alarm
points. Something like 30 ppm for 8 hours before thay alarm?

Third the moisture it generates will be very localized and could allow
mold growth.

Added humidity is generally good in the winter.


True, but not like that....

fourth, it will put a lot of lint into the house, as some
lint will still get through both the dryer lint filter as well as your
homemade filter.

Add an A/C filter (or a part of one): $1.00

AC filter? I thought the OP wanted heat? If you mean the blue filters,
they ain't worth spit....

I have seen it done, there has always been a lot of
lint around the discharge.

Conversely, how much lint does one see at the usual discharge outlet?

Quite a bit. You should see where an AC unit is close to the dryer vent.

Seems like a good idea, but it is not.

Total cost to handle any downside problems: $31.00. Savings on heating
bill:
unknown, but not insignificant.

But medical bills and funeral expenses may be higher.

HeatMan wrote:

Stretch wrote:

First it violates code in most areas.

Really?

Yep.

Can you name one?

Nick

"Pop" wrote in message
...
No offense, but you really shouldn't be trying to make "educated"
guesses, Stretch. Most of your response is pretty far off the
mark but not all.


Actually, he's pretty close.

"Stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
: Probably not a good idea. First it violates code in most
areas.

That's odd; not here in NY. Didn't in Chgo when I lived there.
Doesn't in Buffalo, NY. How/why would it violate code?


While I can't quote the codes, it's in there. How well do you know the
mechanical codes? We have to, it's our job,

: Second if it is a gas dryer there are gas fumes going into the
house.
True, maybe ... but most gas dryers I know of and it's been a
long, long time since I've seen one, vent the gases up the
chimney and still shoot the clothing heat out the dryer vent
hose.

You are wwwaaaayyyyy behind the times. Go to a store and look at one. Even
the big commercial jobs vent everything through one pipe.

I seriously doubt any dryer dries the clothies in the
combusted air of the gas flames. They use a heat exchanger,
same's a furnace, the few that are around. That'd sure make the
clothes smell great, wouldn' t it?


The great smell is fabric softener sheets. Gas dryers don't apply flame to
the clothes, just to the barrell of the dryer.


Seems like a good idea, but it is not.

Seems like a good idea, and it CAN be a good idea. We use it
whenever the temps go down near zero or below (farenheit).
:
:
: Stretch
Yup, you did stretch just a bit, there g


Not at all...

wrote in message
...
HeatMan wrote:

Stretch wrote:

First it violates code in most areas.

Really?

Yep.

Can you name one?

Nick

I can.

Steve IA wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:
Pawel wrote:

I have a washer and dryer in downstairs bathroom and in winter I feel
it is stupid to vent it outside while the furnace is working hard on
both heating and humififying whole house. Will it do damage if I
disconnect the outside vent and send the output (through the old
pantyhose filter) into the house?


First, do not consider this for a gas dryer.



This question comes up often and one of the answers is *NO* if it's a
gas dryer. Gas ovens/stove tops 'vent' into the house. What's the
difference in the fumes from 3 hours of turkey roasting or some time
drying clothes with each appliance venting into the house? I know
the turkey smells better... Fumes is Fumes. Bake a cake for for an
hour (or whatever) or dry clothes for an hour?
I'm not saying that venting the gas fired dryer into the house is a
good thing, I just want to understand the rational of those who say
don't do it. Thanks.

I believe you will find that the usual dryer will use more fuel in that
hour or a day's use than the typical stove.



: mental depression or apathy caused by comparison of the actual state
of the world with an ideal state

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Simply find places to hang you washed laundry in your home, as I do.

This saves the cost of drying them and adds humidity to you home in the
winter!
I live on a farm and can hang my laundry outside on a clothes line in
the summer.
- udarrell - Darrell

Steve IA wrote:

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Pawel wrote:

I have a washer and dryer in downstairs bathroom and in winter I feel
it is stupid to vent it outside while the furnace is working hard on
both heating and humififying whole house. Will it do damage if I
disconnect the outside vent and send the output (through the old
pantyhose filter) into the house?

First, do not consider this for a gas dryer.

This question comes up often and one of the answers is *NO* if it's a
gas dryer. Gas ovens/stove tops 'vent' into the house. What's the
difference in the fumes from 3 hours of turkey roasting or some time
drying clothes with each appliance venting into the house? I know
the turkey smells better... Fumes is Fumes. Bake a cake for for an
hour (or whatever) or dry clothes for an hour?
I'm not saying that venting the gas fired dryer into the house is a
good thing, I just want to understand the rational of those who say
don't do it. Thanks.

--
PROPER DUCT SIZING ESSENTIAL for EFFICIENCY & BTUH PERFORMANCE
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html

Bill noticed:

... clothes will dry faster on less humid days than when it is raining.

That's true outdoors, especially when it is raining :-)

...if you were to vent the dryer into the house, the dryer intake air would
be very humid and the dryer would have a difficult time drying the clothes.

I don't think so.

... recirculating the moisture; out the dryer, then back in again.

The drying rate should be proportional to the difference between the vapor
pressure at 100% RH at the dryer temp, say 130 F with Ps = 4.53" Hg, and
the vapor pressure of house air, eg Pa = 0.299 for 70 F at 40% RH or 0.449
at 60% or 0.748 at 100%, which is much smaller, so the house RH should make
little difference in drying time. Clothes that dry in 20 minutes at 40% RH
with Ps-Pa = 4.23 might dry in 20x4.23/(4.53-0.449) = 21 minutes at 60%.

OTOH, they might dry in 20x4.23/(0.748-0.299) = 188 minutes (3.1 hours) in
70 F air at 40% RH and 20x4.23/(0.748-0.449) = 283 minutes (4.7 hours) in
70 F air at 60% RH, with the help of a fan. At 100%, they would never dry,
theoretically-speaking.

They might dry in 2 hours (120 minutes) in a house with 70 F air at 60% RH
if 120 = 20x4.23/(Ps-0.449), so Ps = 1.204 "Hg = e^(17.863-9621/(460+T)),
which makes T = 84 F, with a Holmes HFH111 1500W compact heater fan ($12.88
at Wal-Mart) set to 84 F in a closet, in series with a humidistat that turns
it off when the closet RH drops to 60%.

Nick

HeatMan wrote:

First it violates code in most areas.

Really?

Yep.

Can you name one?

Nick

I can.

Which one? Chapter and verse.

Nick

wrote:
Bill noticed:

... clothes will dry faster on less humid days than when it is raining.

That's true outdoors, especially when it is raining :-)

...if you were to vent the dryer into the house, the dryer intake air would
be very humid and the dryer would have a difficult time drying the clothes.

I don't think so.

... recirculating the moisture; out the dryer, then back in again.

The drying rate should be proportional to the difference between the vapor
pressure at 100% RH at the dryer temp, say 130 F with Ps = 4.53" Hg, and
the vapor pressure of house air, eg Pa = 0.299 for 70 F at 40% RH or 0.449
at 60% or 0.748 at 100%, which is much smaller, so the house RH should make
little difference in drying time. Clothes that dry in 20 minutes at 40% RH
with Ps-Pa = 4.23 might dry in 20x4.23/(4.53-0.449) = 21 minutes at 60%.

OTOH, they might dry in 20x4.23/(0.748-0.299) = 188 minutes (3.1 hours) in
70 F air at 40% RH and 20x4.23/(0.748-0.449) = 283 minutes (4.7 hours) in
70 F air at 60% RH, with the help of a fan. At 100%, they would never dry,
theoretically-speaking.

They might dry in 2 hours (120 minutes) in a house with 70 F air at 60% RH
if 120 = 20x4.23/(Ps-0.449), so Ps = 1.204 "Hg = e^(17.863-9621/(460+T)),
which makes T = 84 F, with a Holmes HFH111 1500W compact heater fan ($12.88
at Wal-Mart) set to 84 F in a closet, in series with a humidistat that turns
it off when the closet RH drops to 60%.

Nick
Regardless of the drying rate, Mr. Science, you will be breathing lint
and the byproducts of combustion.

You're a strange heatman;

"HeatMan" wrote in message
...
:
: "Pop" wrote in message
: ...
....
: "Stretch" wrote in message
: oups.com...
: : Probably not a good idea. First it violates code in most
: areas.
:
: That's odd; not here in NY. Didn't in Chgo when I lived
there.
: Doesn't in Buffalo, NY. How/why would it violate code?
:
:
: While I can't quote the codes, it's in there. How well do you
know the
: mechanical codes? We have to, it's our job,
I don't know the "codes". I call the Code Enforcement office or,
in the rural area where I am now, stop in and talk to them.
Unlike most people, I don't consider the code people enemies;
they're just educated messengers who interpret the codes, just as
I used to do with CFR's.
:
: : Second if it is a gas dryer there are gas fumes going into
the
: house.
: True, maybe ... but most gas dryers I know of and it's been a
: long, long time since I've seen one, vent the gases up the
: chimney and still shoot the clothing heat out the dryer vent
: hose.
:
: You are wwwaaaayyyyy behind the times. Go to a store and look
at one. Even
: the big commercial jobs vent everything through one pipe.
Sorry, at Sears, 6 miles from here, I looked at one last
night, then I went over to Howland Pump and looked at one there,
a commercial set of three were on the floor. ALL vented to a
chimney. All 4 vented the drying area separately. All 4 used a
heat exchanger but it took they guy at Howland to tell me that
about the Sears one, although it obviously did.
:
: I seriously doubt any dryer dries the clothies in the
: combusted air of the gas flames. They use a heat exchanger,
: same's a furnace, the few that are around. That'd sure make
the
: clothes smell great, wouldn' t it?
:
:
: The great smell is fabric softener sheets. Gas dryers don't
apply flame to
: the clothes, just to the barrell of the dryer.
Makes me wish I had one so I could see if it would set off the
CO detector. I know it'll set off the CO2, but I think it's heat
& humdity did that; the pipe separated.
:
:
: Seems like a good idea, but it is not.
:
: Seems like a good idea, and it CAN be a good idea. We use it
: whenever the temps go down near zero or below (farenheit).
: :
: :
: : Stretch
: Yup, you did stretch just a bit, there g
:
:
: Not at all...
:
:
I'll believe you guys if you can find/quote a verifiable source
where it's in the code, any residential code or code that applies
to residential. We're not really playing the commercial game
here.

Pop

Err, my kenmore gas drier vents it all through one pipe.
Its a few years old. I wouldnt want the exhaust from
the unit blowing into my home. I like less carbon
monoxide in my air.

If you like more, why not use the oven to heat your home
too???

Exactly. It happens that's what I do in colder months when weather
makes drying outdoors difficult. (Clothes still spend some time
outdoors for the "fresh-air treatment.) Sadly, I don't live on a farm.

Putting the partly-dry clothes near the woodstove overnight finishes
the job nicely, not to mention the humidification. No need to hang
them, just pile them very loosely in baskets. Great air-freshener, too.

My electric dryer collects dust, on the outside. (And wastes space, but
not energy.)

J

Pop (& Nick)

International Mechanical Code:

Section 913.2 Exhaust Required. Clothes dryers shall be exhausted in
accordance with Section 504.

Section 504.4 Exhaust installation. Dryer exhaust ducts for clothes
dryers shall terminate on the outside of the building and shall be
equiped with a backdraft damper...... Clothes dryer exhaust ducts shall
not be connected to a vent connector, vent or chimney.

See also sections 504.5, 504.6, 504.61, 504.62, 504.7.

"Pawel" wrote in message
...
I have a washer and dryer in downstairs bathroom and in winter I feel it
is
stupid to vent it outside while the furnace is working hard on both
heating
and humififying whole house. Will it do damage if I disconnect the outside
vent and send the output (through the old pantyhose filter) into the
house?



While there are dozens of posted replies pro and con, the only way you will
ever be able to know for sure is to do it.
I pretty much guarantee that in one year you will never do it again.

Especially if YOU are the one who cleans the house.
That lint gets EVERYWHERE, and you will spend far more in energy costs
running the vacuum cleaner 10 times as much as you did before.

AMUN

"Stretch" wrote in message
ups.com...
: Pop (& Nick)
:
: International Mechanical Code:
:
: Section 913.2 Exhaust Required. Clothes dryers shall be
exhausted in
: accordance with Section 504.
:
: Section 504.4 Exhaust installation. Dryer exhaust ducts for
clothes
: dryers shall terminate on the outside of the building and shall
be
: equiped with a backdraft damper...... Clothes dryer exhaust
ducts shall
: not be connected to a vent connector, vent or chimney.
:
: See also sections 504.5, 504.6, 504.61, 504.62, 504.7.
:

Hmm, that was interesting to see and I was ready to apologize,
but something looked awfully familiar there. On top of that,
being "international" I couldn't find anything in my quick
research that would show it to be applicable to anything but
commercial construction regs and nothing "national" that seemed
to call for it other than a couple of city codes and their
construction codes. So, I'm doubting that anything makes it
applicable as a coded national requirement like NEC or NFPA etc..
Remember, the context here is the homeowner and what he
can/can't do per applicable codes. This is exactly why I often
tell people to check with their local code enforcement offices
because there can be a lot of surprises.

A quick search showed that what I was right, there was something
familiar about it. It's the same place that said, among other
things:

"a) Attic furnaces and crawlspace furnaces are not permitted. "
but, what's missing there is the fact that they ARE permitted,
just under a different section and with caveats. But, this isn't
the point here; the next one is:

"d) All dryer vents shall be metal or metal flex. Non-metallic
vents for dryers are not permitted. See Section 504.6 and
Amendment to 504.6 "
Soo, the flexible, nylon-wire-ribbed parts sold in stores with
UL and CSA ratings, even ETL probably, and EC, aren't allowable?
I respectfully submit that they ARE permitted, just NOT for the
commercial construction company doing the original install.
Local codes will determine whether they are acceptable or not.

And then:

"All ductwork shall be a closed system and in compliance with the
International Mechanical Code Section 603. Use of a stud space or
joist space for a supply or plenum return is not permitted.
Gypsum ducts are not permitted. Delete Sections 603.5 and
603.5.1. "

Well, I can show you several inspected and approved places where
that's done, one of them being my own home when we lived in Chgo,
another being my nephew's home, built three years ago, right here
in NYS. It's simply not a requirement, OR has exceptions in
other areas of the code, just as the sections you quoted from
likely do.

This one just plain caught my eye and is another example of how
that international code you quoted from isn't a requirement. It
says:

"Fuel Fired Appliances
See Section 303 for approved and prohibited locations.
a) Section 303.3 Prohibited locations
Fuel-fired appliances shall not be located in, or obtain
combustion air from, any of the following rooms or spaces.
1. Sleeping rooms
2. Bathrooms
3. Toilet rooms
4. Storage closets
5. Surgical rooms "

That's blatantly untrue and there HAS to be a section of
exceptions or dependencies somewhere even for an international
code. Fuel fired appliances are used in hotel rooms (sleeping
rooms) and in my own home, which has now been inspected twice,
once before we moved in and three years ago for acquiring a
boarding licence to be a foster child home, and the ONLY thing
either inspection ever found was too many things plugged into a
power strip because its location appeared close to "permanent".
It appeared as an "exception" and not a "violation".
Oops! Sorry, I lied; they did find a violation - my garage
wood stove (a huge one) wasn't considered grandfathered anymore
and I had to pull it out. The previous owner here was a fireman
and I guess he knew his way around the codes; he built, installed
and inspected it g. I didn't get that courtesy. Oh, they also
considered it an "incinerator", not a wood stove, which made the
"rules" a little different. The inspector wouldn't budge on that
one. All I had to do tough was take the stovepipe off it and
cover the chimney hole - then he passed me. Took about 15
minutes.

Anyway, I guess I should have said "applicable" code to the OPs
situation, but I thought that was understood. Guess not.

Not really trying to be a PIA by the way - I just don't care for
misperceptions.

Pop

Well if venting the dryer indoors, how much would it raise the indoor
relative humidity? Only from 40% to 60%? I should think it would be more
than that...


wrote in message
Bill noticed:

... clothes will dry faster on less humid days than when it is raining.

That's true outdoors, especially when it is raining :-)

...if you were to vent the dryer into the house, the dryer intake air
would
be very humid and the dryer would have a difficult time drying the
clothes.

I don't think so.

... recirculating the moisture; out the dryer, then back in again.

The drying rate should be proportional to the difference between the vapor
pressure at 100% RH at the dryer temp, say 130 F with Ps = 4.53" Hg, and
the vapor pressure of house air, eg Pa = 0.299 for 70 F at 40% RH or 0.449
at 60% or 0.748 at 100%, which is much smaller, so the house RH should
make
little difference in drying time. Clothes that dry in 20 minutes at 40% RH
with Ps-Pa = 4.23 might dry in 20x4.23/(4.53-0.449) = 21 minutes at 60%.

OTOH, they might dry in 20x4.23/(0.748-0.299) = 188 minutes (3.1 hours) in
70 F air at 40% RH and 20x4.23/(0.748-0.449) = 283 minutes (4.7 hours) in
70 F air at 60% RH, with the help of a fan. At 100%, they would never dry,
theoretically-speaking.

They might dry in 2 hours (120 minutes) in a house with 70 F air at 60% RH
if 120 = 20x4.23/(Ps-0.449), so Ps = 1.204 "Hg = e^(17.863-9621/(460+T)),
which makes T = 84 F, with a Holmes HFH111 1500W compact heater fan
($12.88
at Wal-Mart) set to 84 F in a closet, in series with a humidistat that
turns
it off when the closet RH drops to 60%.

Nick

According to Jeff Wisnia :
I wonder if it would be cost effective for some company to produce a
heat exchanger combined with a small circulating fan for recovering that
heat? The fan could be switched on by a thermostat so that it only ran
when the hot air from the dryer warmed the unit up.

I've been doing some research on this, and it appears that the
technology just seems to have not produced something economically
viable yet for residential class dryers. For multiple commercial
dryers (ie: laundramats) certainly, but not a single relatively
little used unit.

Coping with the lint is perhaps the major factor, otherwise,
standard heat recovery ventilators (ie: those in R2000 homes
are typically $500-$900) would be common already for this purpose.

The cheapest heat reclamation units I've seen suitable for dryers
are on the order of $3K at a bare minimum, and routine service
schedules (lint cleanout etc.) is apparently important. Significant
effectiveness and a reasonably short repayment period in a commercial
setting (especially when you share them amongst several units), but
not useful in a residence.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
Well if venting the dryer indoors, how much would it raise the indoor
relative humidity? Only from 40% to 60%? I should think it would be more
than that...



Based on what? The depends on the number of loads of laundry, wetness of
hte laundry, size of hte house, etc. No one can give an accurate number as
it differs from household to household.

Pop wrote:
"HeatMan" wrote in message
...

: You are wwwaaaayyyyy behind the times. Go to a store and look
at one. Even
: the big commercial jobs vent everything through one pipe.

Sorry, at Sears, 6 miles from here, I looked at one last
night, then I went over to Howland Pump and looked at one there,
a commercial set of three were on the floor. ALL vented to a
chimney. All 4 vented the drying area separately. All 4 used a
heat exchanger but it took they guy at Howland to tell me that
about the Sears one, although it obviously did.

You're telling me I can obtain a residential clothes dryer from Sears
that is configured by the manufacturer (or with a factory-made
accessory) to vent the gas exhaust separately from the "other" exhaust?

I want one. Model number please. All I could find was dryers which
allowed a choice of where to run the single exhaust pipe (back, side,
bottom).

wrote:
HeatMan wrote:

First it violates code in most areas.

Really?

Yep.

Can you name one?

Nick

I can.

Which one? Chapter and verse.


I can't name the the particular number myself, but I believe there is a
section that specifies that manufacturer's installation requirements
must be followed. I've yet to see a residential gas dryer that did not
require venting to the outdoors per the manufacturer's installation
manual.

I would be a good idea to vent indoor if you get nose bleeds as I do in
winter. Really low RH in my house during heating season.

wrote:

Bill noticed:



... clothes will dry faster on less humid days than when it is raining.



That's true outdoors, especially when it is raining :-)


That's a soft water rinse. :-)
- udarrell

--
PROPER DUCT SIZING ESSENTIAL for EFFICIENCY & BTUH PERFORMANCE
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message

Well if venting the dryer indoors, how much would it raise the indoor
relative humidity? Only from 40% to 60%? I should think it would be more
than that...

Based on what? The depends on the number of loads of laundry...

1 load.

wetness of hte laundry,

12 pounds of water.

size of hte house, etc.

A 2400 ft^2 average US house with 0.7 ACH, dried in H hours,
with a 0.0025 outdoor humidity ratio.

Nick

Stretch wrote:

International Mechanical Code:

Section 913.2 Exhaust Required. Clothes dryers shall be exhausted in
accordance with Section 504.

Section 504.4 Exhaust installation. Dryer exhaust ducts for clothes
dryers shall terminate on the outside of the building and shall be
equiped with a backdraft damper...... Clothes dryer exhaust ducts shall
not be connected to a vent connector, vent or chimney.
See also sections 504.5, 504.6, 504.61, 504.62, 504.7.

Wow. Can we install the damper backwards, after an open T in the house?

And if the guy who dries his clothes by the woodstove loosely stacked in
laundry baskets were to bring his electric dryer back out of the rain into
the house and put it near the woodstove and stack the clothes loosely inside,
with no power applied, would he have to comply with section 504.4?

What if he turned on the tumbler motor without the electric heating elements?

Or put his clothes in a closet with a $12 heater and a humidistat?

Do the International Mechanical Code police often visit houses?

Are they something like The Spanish Inquisition?

Nick

Pop wrote:

... being "international" I couldn't find anything in my quick
research that would show it to be applicable to anything but
commercial construction regs... It's the same place that said...

"a) Attic furnaces and crawlspace furnaces are not permitted. "
but, what's missing there is the fact that they ARE permitted,
just under a different section and with caveats. But, this isn't
the point here; the next one is:

"d) All dryer vents shall be metal or metal flex. Non-metallic
vents for dryers are not permitted. See Section 504.6 and
Amendment to 504.6 "
Soo, the flexible, nylon-wire-ribbed parts sold in stores with
UL and CSA ratings, even ETL probably, and EC, aren't allowable?
I respectfully submit that they ARE permitted...

And then:

"All ductwork shall be a closed system and in compliance with the
International Mechanical Code Section 603. Use of a stud space or
joist space for a supply or plenum return is not permitted.

This reminds me of the National Mechanical Code, which is said to
prohibit circulating conditioned air at more than 120 F in wooden
stud spaces. I presume the excuse was the danger of fire, and the
code committee creatures who wrote this sell fireproof materials.

A few of the few dozen wood solar attics in Soldiers Grove WI were
lined with drywall after the state declared them "plenums," until
pharmacist Don Stebbins refused to do so, saying the theoretical
graph they were using for the time it takes wood to catch fire was
in degrees C vs F, and the time scale was log vs linear. At this
point the state creatures cravenly slunk away without reimbusing
the injured parties. There have been no fires in 27 years.

"Gypsum ducts are not permitted. Delete Sections 603.5 and 603.5.1."

Good thing the code creatures didn't see that part :-)

Nick

IF YOU HAVE A NATURAL GAS DRYER DO NOT VENT INSIDE THE HOUSE as exhaust
gases are part of what's vented, and the carbon monoxide will kill you.
You will die and there will be nobody there to fold your dry clothes.

Shaun Eli
http://www.BrainChampagne.com
Brain Champagne: Clever Comedy for the Smarter Audience (sm)

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:

"Bill" wrote in message

Well if venting the dryer indoors, how much would it raise the indoor
relative humidity? Only from 40% to 60%? I should think it would be more
than that...

Based on what? The depends on the number of loads of laundry...

1 load.

wetness of hte laundry,

12 pounds of water.

size of hte house, etc.

A 2400 ft^2 average US house with 0.7 ACH, dried in H hours,
with a 0.0025 outdoor humidity ratio.

10 WO=.0025'outdoor humidity ratio (Phila in January)
20 TR=70'room temp (F)
30 CFM=.7*2400*8/60'airflow through house (cfm)
40 W=12'pounds of water per load
50 FOR H=2 TO 12 STEP 2'drying time (hours)
60 P=W/H'water vapor supply rate (lb/h)
70 WI=WO+P/(60*CFM*.075)'indoor humidity ratio
80 PA=29.921/(1+.62198/WI)'vapor pressure of room air ("Hg)
90 PS=EXP(17.863-9621/(460+TR))'vapor pressure at Tr and 100% RH ("Hg)
100 RH=100*PA/PS'relative humidity in house (%)
110 PRINT H,RH
120 NEXT H

Time (H) RH (%)

2 53.60285
4 34.89333
6 28.61733
8 25.47186
10 23.58219
12 22.32141

Nick

In misc.consumers.frugal-living Shaun Eli wrote:
IF YOU HAVE A NATURAL GAS DRYER DO NOT VENT INSIDE THE HOUSE as exhaust
gases are part of what's vented, and the carbon monoxide will kill you.
You will die and there will be nobody there to fold your dry clothes.

A properly adjusted natural gas dryer should not be producing
carbon monoxide. I still would not recommend venting it indoors,
but CO should not be an issue.

Bill Ranck
Blacksburg, Va.

Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Jeff Wisnia :

I wonder if it would be cost effective for some company to produce a
heat exchanger combined with a small circulating fan for recovering that
heat? The fan could be switched on by a thermostat so that it only ran
when the hot air from the dryer warmed the unit up.


I've been doing some research on this, and it appears that the
technology just seems to have not produced something economically
viable yet for residential class dryers. For multiple commercial
dryers (ie: laundramats) certainly, but not a single relatively
little used unit.

Coping with the lint is perhaps the major factor, otherwise,
standard heat recovery ventilators (ie: those in R2000 homes
are typically $500-$900) would be common already for this purpose.

The cheapest heat reclamation units I've seen suitable for dryers
are on the order of $3K at a bare minimum, and routine service
schedules (lint cleanout etc.) is apparently important. Significant
effectiveness and a reasonably short repayment period in a commercial
setting (especially when you share them amongst several units), but
not useful in a residence.

Sound similar to the thread here a while ago started by someone who was
wondering how he could recover the waste heat from warm shower water on
its way down the drain.

Even in my most parsimonious of moods I wouldn't expect you'd ever get a
payback of capital costs from doing something like that in a home.

Do they even do things like that in places like high school gym shower
rooms?

I do remember a friend who about 35 years ago had a city water cooled
air conditioning system in his home. The condenser was cooled by water,
not air. He had it plumbed so that he could route the discharge water to
his garden hose when he wanted to, but I expect those times were few and
far between and most of the time the water just went down the drain.

That was back when city water was ignorably cheap. I haven't recently
heard of any home air conditioning systems using water for condenser
cooling, do they still make them? (Don't bother telling me about setting
up a lawn sprinkler to spray the condenser of an air cooled unit. Same
general principle, but that's not what I was rambling about.)

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Shaun Eli wrote:
IF YOU HAVE A NATURAL GAS DRYER DO NOT VENT INSIDE THE HOUSE as exhaust
gases are part of what's vented, and the carbon monoxide will kill you.
You will die and there will be nobody there to fold your dry clothes.

Gee, that's weird. I had a natural gas dryer and vented inside the
house about 4-5 months out of the year. No one died or got sick.

Al Bundy wrote:
Regardless of the drying rate, Mr. Science, you will be breathing lint
and the byproducts of combustion.

I had a natural gas dryer and vented inside the home. We installed a
box with a flap in it to direct the exhaust outdoors or indoors. The
indoors hole had a fine lint filter (similar to a nylon stocking),
there was no lint coming out. I don't think there are any significant
byproducts of natural gas combustion. There certainly was no odors or
anything. I mean, it should be the same as a natural gas stove/range,
and those are obviously not vented.