My wife and I recently bought an 83 year old house with some needed
fixes that we mostly knew about ahead of time... but as neither one of
us has ever actually owned a house before, we're learning certain
things as we go along.

I know basically nothing about plumbing. Before we moved in, we had an
inspection done (which I unfortunately couldn't be present for) and the
inspector noted low water pressure that he said was caused by
"galvanized water mains". I went back and checked the pressure and it
seemed fine. Had a plumber look at it and said it looked fine to him
too. (He didn't actually do a pressure test, just ran some water.)

After moving in, we pretty quickly figured out what the inspector was
talking about. Run one water source and the pressure's fine - not
great, but fine. (It's a little low when running something like an
outside sprinkler, but fine for showering or dishwashing.) Try to run
two sources at once, though, and both drop to a trickle. Downstairs
sources seem to get about a 65/35 split if I've got the first and
second floors competing with each other. Run the basement washing
machine and flush the first-floor toilet, and you basically cannot take
a shower at all for about 10 minutes. But even when running two sinks
on the first floor, the pressure drops noticeably. Potentially more
annoying, my shower head on the second floor seems to be suddenly
getting clogged up with specks of rust. It was fine for like six
months, but within the last 2 weeks or so I've got water jets going
everywhere and occasional small bits of rust popping out.

I guess my question is, does this sound like a problem with the pipes
coming in from the street, or with the pipes in my house? The pipe
from the street is huge, and I can't believe it would be blocked up
that much - it's gotta be eight inches around, and appears in basically
decent shape to me. It does look like it's probably original to the
house, though, or at least very old. Our house is also very close to
the street and most of the pipe itself is contained within our
basement, so it hasn't been exposed to exterior water or tree roots or
anything like that.

The pipes inside our house are basically all clustered in one area; the
washing machine in the basement, first floor bathroom and kitchen, and
second floor bathroom are all basically in one vertical line going up.
I guess I'm hoping that there's just one nasty old little pipe that
needs to be replaced and that would solve the problem. Am I just
dreaming or is this possible? How much might this repair cost?

And what exactly does the term "water main" refer to in a house? (I'm
from NYC; to me, a water main is a 15 foot cement pipe carrying water
to three million people.) Is it the pipe from the street or a central
pipe carrying water throughout the house?

I'm *really* hoping I don't have to replace that massive pipe from the
street; I wouldn't even know who to call for that, and would imagine it
would be a huge expense.

Thanks...

wrote:
My wife and I recently bought an 83 year old house with some needed
fixes that we mostly knew about ahead of time... but as neither one of
us has ever actually owned a house before, we're learning certain
things as we go along.

I know basically nothing about plumbing. Before we moved in, we had an
inspection done (which I unfortunately couldn't be present for) and the
inspector noted low water pressure that he said was caused by
"galvanized water mains". I went back and checked the pressure and it
seemed fine. Had a plumber look at it and said it looked fine to him
too. (He didn't actually do a pressure test, just ran some water.)


I'd stay away from that plumber. From what you've described, it's
pretty easy to fiure out there is a pressure problem. All you have to
do is tun on a couple faucets at the same time. It's well known that
galvanized pipe, which was used in older homes, will corrode from the
inside out. Over time, the inside gets clogged and the flow reduced.



After moving in, we pretty quickly figured out what the inspector was
talking about. Run one water source and the pressure's fine - not
great, but fine. (It's a little low when running something like an
outside sprinkler, but fine for showering or dishwashing.) Try to run
two sources at once, though, and both drop to a trickle. Downstairs
sources seem to get about a 65/35 split if I've got the first and
second floors competing with each other. Run the basement washing
machine and flush the first-floor toilet, and you basically cannot take
a shower at all for about 10 minutes. But even when running two sinks
on the first floor, the pressure drops noticeably. Potentially more
annoying, my shower head on the second floor seems to be suddenly
getting clogged up with specks of rust. It was fine for like six
months, but within the last 2 weeks or so I've got water jets going
everywhere and occasional small bits of rust popping out.

I guess my question is, does this sound like a problem with the pipes
coming in from the street, or with the pipes in my house? The pipe
from the street is huge, and I can't believe it would be blocked up
that much - it's gotta be eight inches around, and appears in basically
decent shape to me.

No way the water supply to a house is an 8 inch line. Are you sure
you're not looking at the sewer line? In any case, the outside of a
galvanized pipe isn't a guide to what it's like inside. I'm sure a
google search will come up with lots of pics of corroded galvanized
pipe.



It does look like it's probably original to the
house, though, or at least very old. Our house is also very close to
the street and most of the pipe itself is contained within our
basement, so it hasn't been exposed to exterior water or tree roots or
anything like that.

The pipes inside our house are basically all clustered in one area; the
washing machine in the basement, first floor bathroom and kitchen, and
second floor bathroom are all basically in one vertical line going up.
I guess I'm hoping that there's just one nasty old little pipe that
needs to be replaced and that would solve the problem. Am I just
dreaming or is this possible? How much might this repair cost?

Impossible to say. It's not likely however to be just one little
section. Tytpically you need to replace all the galvanized pipe
inside the house with copper. If the line to the street is shot, that
would have to be replaced too. However, it;s more likely it's within
the house, as the pipes there are smaller and will become more
restricted.




And what exactly does the term "water main" refer to in a house? (I'm
from NYC; to me, a water main is a 15 foot cement pipe carrying water
to three million people.) Is it the pipe from the street or a central
pipe carrying water throughout the house?


Not clear to me either. I would call the line coming into the house
the water supply line, or street line. The pipes withing the house I
would just call water lines. In reality, the inspector may have
simply meant all the galvanized pipe visible, as he may not have been
able to narrow it down. I'd find the biggest outlet that is close the
incoming supply line and see how much flow you can get from it. If
it's real good, then that would mean the supply coming in is OK.



I'm *really* hoping I don't have to replace that massive pipe from the
street; I wouldn't even know who to call for that, and would imagine it
would be a huge expense.

Thanks...

wrote:
snip
The pipe from the street is huge, and I can't believe it would be
blocked up that much - it's gotta be eight inches around,
snip

Are you sure that is the supply line?

wrote:

My wife and I recently bought an 83 year old house with some needed
fixes that we mostly knew about ahead of time... but as neither one of
us has ever actually owned a house before, we're learning certain
things as we go along.

I know basically nothing about plumbing. Before we moved in, we had an
inspection done (which I unfortunately couldn't be present for) and the
inspector noted low water pressure that he said was caused by
"galvanized water mains". I went back and checked the pressure and it
seemed fine. Had a plumber look at it and said it looked fine to him
too. (He didn't actually do a pressure test, just ran some water.)

After moving in, we pretty quickly figured out what the inspector was
talking about. Run one water source and the pressure's fine - not
great, but fine. (It's a little low when running something like an
outside sprinkler, but fine for showering or dishwashing.) Try to run
two sources at once, though, and both drop to a trickle. Downstairs
sources seem to get about a 65/35 split if I've got the first and
second floors competing with each other. Run the basement washing
machine and flush the first-floor toilet, and you basically cannot take
a shower at all for about 10 minutes. But even when running two sinks
on the first floor, the pressure drops noticeably. Potentially more
annoying, my shower head on the second floor seems to be suddenly
getting clogged up with specks of rust. It was fine for like six
months, but within the last 2 weeks or so I've got water jets going
everywhere and occasional small bits of rust popping out.

I guess my question is, does this sound like a problem with the pipes
coming in from the street, or with the pipes in my house?

SNIP

Been involved in many of these.

Basically, *no* one on Usenet can tell you what steps to take.
Other than to seek out a plumber who is competent to truly
investigate and find the source and scope of the problem.

Don't just jump in and contract to have all the galv in the
house replaced. May not solve a thing.

He should:

Determine the service lateral size and material.
Do tests to see if the flow from the service line is sufficient.

If it *is* OK, then move to the bldg supply lines. See if there
is possibly a single restriction near the service entrance which
is causing low flow. Move on from there to the branches and
make suggestions on how to proceed.

Jim

According to :
I know basically nothing about plumbing. Before we moved in, we had an
inspection done (which I unfortunately couldn't be present for) and the
inspector noted low water pressure that he said was caused by
"galvanized water mains". I went back and checked the pressure and it
seemed fine. Had a plumber look at it and said it looked fine to him
too. (He didn't actually do a pressure test, just ran some water.)

People have wildly differing thresholds for "fine" in this regard.
Some will regard "good flow" from each valve/faucet to be adequate,
and not consider multiple faucets at once.

As mentioned earlier, there's really no way we can make concrete
suggestions, because the causes/cures can be just about anything,
with costs for repair ranging from almost nothing (more fully
opening a shutoff valve) to enormous amounts (replumbing the whole
house)

You need to find a trustworthy plumber, or someone similarly
experienced, who can come in, properly diagnose the problem and
identify a reasonable solution. Have him _show_ you why he
thinks he's identified the problem.

"galvanized water main" sounds like the inspector thinks the line
from the street is at fault. Without full testing, it's difficult
to tell whether he's right or not, but at least he's identified
the main line as galvanized, and galvanized pipe often cruds up
over time. As does copper pipe (but much more rarely).

That doesn't have to be expensive. In many areas, the water
utility has what are called "thumpers". These units will quite
often do a reasonably good job of flushing out the build up.
The trick is convincing them that it's degrading your service
unacceptably, and if you can manage that, the service is quick
and usually free.

I'd give 'em a call. If that doesn't help, get a plumber in
to diagnose the issue. _Demonstrate_ to them why you don't
think it's acceptable.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

On 5 Sep 2006 10:34:16 -0700, wrote:
Had a plumber look at it and said it looked fine to him
too. (He didn't actually do a pressure test, just ran some water.)

Please don't say you paid for this.


Oren

"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 19:39:48 -0000, (Chris
Lewis) wrote:

According to :
I know basically nothing about plumbing. Before we moved in, we had an
inspection done (which I unfortunately couldn't be present for) and the
inspector noted low water pressure that he said was caused by
"galvanized water mains". I went back and checked the pressure and it
seemed fine. Had a plumber look at it and said it looked fine to him
too. (He didn't actually do a pressure test, just ran some water.)


If it is the water supply line that's at fault, and for some
reason you don't want to replace it, you can probably
get acceptable results by putting in a pressure tank.
Your static pressure sounds fine.

wrote:
My wife and I recently bought an 83 year old house with some needed
fixes that we mostly knew about ahead of time... but as neither one of
us has ever actually owned a house before, we're learning certain
things as we go along.

I know basically nothing about plumbing. Before we moved in, we had an
inspection done (which I unfortunately couldn't be present for) and the
inspector noted low water pressure that he said was caused by
"galvanized water mains". I went back and checked the pressure and it
seemed fine. Had a plumber look at it and said it looked fine to him
too. (He didn't actually do a pressure test, just ran some water.)

After moving in, we pretty quickly figured out what the inspector was
talking about. Run one water source and the pressure's fine - not
great, but fine. (It's a little low when running something like an
outside sprinkler, but fine for showering or dishwashing.) Try to run
two sources at once, though, and both drop to a trickle. Downstairs
sources seem to get about a 65/35 split if I've got the first and
second floors competing with each other. Run the basement washing
machine and flush the first-floor toilet, and you basically cannot take
a shower at all for about 10 minutes. But even when running two sinks
on the first floor, the pressure drops noticeably. Potentially more
annoying, my shower head on the second floor seems to be suddenly
getting clogged up with specks of rust. It was fine for like six
months, but within the last 2 weeks or so I've got water jets going
everywhere and occasional small bits of rust popping out.

I guess my question is, does this sound like a problem with the pipes
coming in from the street, or with the pipes in my house? The pipe
from the street is huge, and I can't believe it would be blocked up
that much - it's gotta be eight inches around, and appears in basically
decent shape to me. It does look like it's probably original to the
house, though, or at least very old. Our house is also very close to
the street and most of the pipe itself is contained within our
basement, so it hasn't been exposed to exterior water or tree roots or
anything like that.

The pipes inside our house are basically all clustered in one area; the
washing machine in the basement, first floor bathroom and kitchen, and
second floor bathroom are all basically in one vertical line going up.
I guess I'm hoping that there's just one nasty old little pipe that
needs to be replaced and that would solve the problem. Am I just
dreaming or is this possible? How much might this repair cost?

And what exactly does the term "water main" refer to in a house? (I'm
from NYC; to me, a water main is a 15 foot cement pipe carrying water
to three million people.) Is it the pipe from the street or a central
pipe carrying water throughout the house?

I'm *really* hoping I don't have to replace that massive pipe from the
street; I wouldn't even know who to call for that, and would imagine it
would be a huge expense.

Thanks...


When talking about plumbing you have to be rather
careful even plumbers use different names for the
same thing. The main IS usually the pipe that
delivers water to many houses. The water pipe from
the main to the house is usually called the water
supply pipe, the turnout pipe, etc. and also often
called a main by some people.

I can't believe that the water supply pipe to the
house is 8" in diameter, and I doubt that a main
would run through your basement. But stranger
things happen. The large pipe is probably not a
water supply or main, but a sewer pipe. Your
water supply pipe from the street would likely be
less than 2" in diameter and modern ones are
usually only an 1" or 1-1/4" pipe.

The best way to get rid of stuff coming down the
pipe is to periodically flush it. Open one faucet
fully (no faucet screen) for a minute or so, close
it and move on to the next fauce.

I don't think you have enough information to
determine what the pressure problem is. Ask
people next door to you if they have pressure
problems.

George E. Cawthon wrote:
wrote:


snip

I guess my question is, does this sound like a problem with the pipes
coming in from the street, or with the pipes in my house? The pipe
from the street is huge, and I can't believe it would be blocked up
that much - it's gotta be eight inches around, and appears in basically
decent shape to me. It does look like it's probably original to the
house, though, or at least very old. Our house is also very close to
the street and most of the pipe itself is contained within our
basement, so it hasn't been exposed to exterior water or tree roots or
anything like that.



snip

I can't believe that the water supply pipe to the
house is 8" in diameter, and I doubt that a main
would run through your basement. But stranger
things happen. The large pipe is probably not a
water supply or main, but a sewer pipe. Your
water supply pipe from the street would likely be
less than 2" in diameter and modern ones are
usually only an 1" or 1-1/4" pipe.

snip

I questioned that too then re-read it. He says 8" -around- which would
make it about a 2" pipe. Still huge for normal house service.

Harry K

George E. Cawthon wrote:
I can't believe that the water supply pipe to the
house is 8" in diameter, and I doubt that a main
would run through your basement. But stranger
things happen. The large pipe is probably not a
water supply or main, but a sewer pipe.

Well alright, that's probably true then. I never really followed the
pipes with my eyes to see where they all go and/or come from. Strange
that I've never noticed the actual supply pipe, though, although I may
have just mistaken it for a regular house pipe if it's only 2".

I don't think you have enough information to
determine what the pressure problem is. Ask
people next door to you if they have pressure
problems.

They don't. I don't need to ask; I see them running lawn sprinklers in
the front and back full blast simultaneously. I can't do that. I
can't run one sprinkler with the same pressure that they get running
two at a time.

I guess I'll call a plumber back here (I was going to anyway, was just
hoping to get a ballpark before I ask a guy to come out), as I
obviously don't even have any idea what's going out and what's coming
in to the house. So I don't even know what to look at.

In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
wrote:
...snipped...
from the street is huge, and I can't believe it would be blocked up
that much - it's gotta be eight inches around, and appears in basically
decent shape to me. It does look like it's probably original to the
...snipped...
...snipped...
I can't believe that the water supply pipe to the
house is 8" in diameter, and I doubt that a main
would run through your basement. But stranger

Just a note that the OP said "8 inches _around_", not 8 inches dia.

A 2 inch galvanized pipe would be roughly 8 inches around. Still a
heckuva lot larger than the usual 3/4 or 1", but aa lot more
reasonable than 8" diameter.


--

Larry Wasserman Baltimore, Maryland

wrote:
In article ,
George E. Cawthon wrote:
wrote:
...snipped...
from the street is huge, and I can't believe it would be blocked up
that much - it's gotta be eight inches around, and appears in basically
decent shape to me. It does look like it's probably original to the
...snipped...
...snipped...
I can't believe that the water supply pipe to the
house is 8" in diameter, and I doubt that a main
would run through your basement. But stranger

Just a note that the OP said "8 inches _around_", not 8 inches dia.

A 2 inch galvanized pipe would be roughly 8 inches around. Still a
heckuva lot larger than the usual 3/4 or 1", but aa lot more
reasonable than 8" diameter.


He said "around" but I don't think he meant
"around" Eight inch around would not be
"massive." See OP's comment just before yours in
the thread, 2" is normal to him.

George E. Cawthon wrote:
A 2 inch galvanized pipe would be roughly 8 inches around. Still a
heckuva lot larger than the usual 3/4 or 1", but aa lot more
reasonable than 8" diameter.


He said "around" but I don't think he meant
"around" Eight inch around would not be
"massive." See OP's comment just before yours in
the thread, 2" is normal to him.

I meant 8" diameter. The colloquial "around", not actually measured
around the outside of the pipe. I meant from one side to the other
through the middle. It's a big pipe. But yeah, you've all convinced
me that it's the sewer line.

I found my water "mains" this morning and I think I know what the
inspector meant by that now. I don't walk to all four corners of my
basement much, but I did today and I just followed the pipes coming out
of my meter. There are two pipes coming from the meter that traverse
the length of the house all the way from front to back where most of my
plumbing is clustered. So maybe my inspector wasn't using the term
properly, but these two pipes are what I'm betting he meant by "mains"
(six months ago I could have just asked him, but he wouldn't remember
now). These two pipes are about 2" diameter and are definitely not
copper so most likely the galvanized steel he was talking about. They
don't look that old, though, is the odd thing. But then, my pressure
is not *that* bad. So maybe they're just starting to go.

Anyway, I will definitely get another plumber in, but at least you've
all pointed me in the right direction and stopped me from having my
sewer line ripped out unnecessarily

wrote in message
oups.com...
My wife and I recently bought an 83 year old house with some needed
fixes that we mostly knew about ahead of time... but as neither one of
us has ever actually owned a house before, we're learning certain
things as we go along.

I know basically nothing about plumbing. Before we moved in, we had an
inspection done (which I unfortunately couldn't be present for) and the
inspector noted low water pressure that he said was caused by
"galvanized water mains". I went back and checked the pressure and it
seemed fine. Had a plumber look at it and said it looked fine to him
too. (He didn't actually do a pressure test, just ran some water.)

After moving in, we pretty quickly figured out what the inspector was
talking about. Run one water source and the pressure's fine - not
great, but fine. (It's a little low when running something like an
outside sprinkler, but fine for showering or dishwashing.) Try to run
two sources at once, though, and both drop to a trickle. Downstairs
sources seem to get about a 65/35 split if I've got the first and
second floors competing with each other. Run the basement washing
machine and flush the first-floor toilet, and you basically cannot take
a shower at all for about 10 minutes. But even when running two sinks
on the first floor, the pressure drops noticeably. Potentially more
annoying, my shower head on the second floor seems to be suddenly
getting clogged up with specks of rust. It was fine for like six
months, but within the last 2 weeks or so I've got water jets going
everywhere and occasional small bits of rust popping out.

I guess my question is, does this sound like a problem with the pipes
coming in from the street, or with the pipes in my house? The pipe
from the street is huge, and I can't believe it would be blocked up
that much - it's gotta be eight inches around, and appears in basically
decent shape to me. It does look like it's probably original to the
house, though, or at least very old. Our house is also very close to
the street and most of the pipe itself is contained within our
basement, so it hasn't been exposed to exterior water or tree roots or
anything like that.

The pipes inside our house are basically all clustered in one area; the
washing machine in the basement, first floor bathroom and kitchen, and
second floor bathroom are all basically in one vertical line going up.
I guess I'm hoping that there's just one nasty old little pipe that
needs to be replaced and that would solve the problem. Am I just
dreaming or is this possible? How much might this repair cost?

And what exactly does the term "water main" refer to in a house? (I'm
from NYC; to me, a water main is a 15 foot cement pipe carrying water
to three million people.) Is it the pipe from the street or a central
pipe carrying water throughout the house?

I'm *really* hoping I don't have to replace that massive pipe from the
street; I wouldn't even know who to call for that, and would imagine it
would be a huge expense.

Thanks...


It is real easy to check water pressure , you can even get a gauge adapt it
to a hose and get a pressure reading, Check it at deferent times during the
day that will give you an average. But were you are getting confused your
problem is not pressure it's volume, Your Galvanized pipes can be corroded
to the point of a 1/4" opening you still can read adequate pressure. But you
have no volume. Think of it like this you have a 1/4" pipe with 60PSI then
you have a 2" pipe with 60PSI witch would more water come out of? Now
chances are your pipes are corroded to the point of restricting the flow if
the whole house is piped with galvanized pipe all the pipe is corroded to
the point of needing to be replaced. A good plumber can explain this to you
and it sounds like your in need of one. I will bet your city pressure is
right on the money, but if you did a Gallons per minute test it be a
deferent story. But what do I know I'm just a plumber