Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

The shraeder valve seems to be tapped off the side
of a regular valve... Am I correct in assuming this is
the service valve which needs to be opened in order
to read the pressure. This might be a dumb question
but the valve seems to be closed pretty tightly and I
don't want to take a chance on destroying anything.
No handle on the valve...so I'm just trying to get a
"yes, this is the valve you open" or "No, don't
touch that valve..try this approach instead" answer.

So, connect the gauge.... open the valve using a
wrench and read appropriate pressures...is this correct ???

Also what pressures should there be ? Someone mentioned
a low head pressure of around 200 would be normal while measuring
a 20 degree temperature drop at a vent. Also low pressure side should
measure about 55 -65.

Can anyone recommend a good online site for home a/c maintenance
and repair tutorials ?? All my google searchs have been disappointing.

Thanks in advance.....

Peter

Peter wrote:

Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

The shraeder valve seems to be tapped off the side
of a regular valve... Am I correct in assuming this is
the service valve which needs to be opened in order
to read the pressure. This might be a dumb question
but the valve seems to be closed pretty tightly and I
don't want to take a chance on destroying anything.
No handle on the valve...so I'm just trying to get a
"yes, this is the valve you open" or "No, don't
touch that valve..try this approach instead" answer.

So, connect the gauge.... open the valve using a
wrench and read appropriate pressures...is this correct ???

Also what pressures should there be ? Someone mentioned
a low head pressure of around 200 would be normal while measuring
a 20 degree temperature drop at a vent. Also low pressure side should
measure about 55 -65.

Can anyone recommend a good online site for home a/c maintenance
and repair tutorials ?? All my google searchs have been disappointing.

Thanks in advance.....

Peter

Try asking your question on alt.hvac.

You'll get more replies from the professionals there.

HTH,

Jeff





--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..
Peter wrote:

Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

The shraeder valve seems to be tapped off the side
of a regular valve... Am I correct in assuming this is
the service valve which needs to be opened in order
to read the pressure. This might be a dumb question
but the valve seems to be closed pretty tightly and I
don't want to take a chance on destroying anything.
No handle on the valve...so I'm just trying to get a
"yes, this is the valve you open" or "No, don't
touch that valve..try this approach instead" answer.

So, connect the gauge.... open the valve using a
wrench and read appropriate pressures...is this correct ???

Also what pressures should there be ? Someone mentioned
a low head pressure of around 200 would be normal while measuring
a 20 degree temperature drop at a vent. Also low pressure side should
measure about 55 -65.

Can anyone recommend a good online site for home a/c maintenance
and repair tutorials ?? All my google searchs have been disappointing.

Thanks in advance.....

Peter

Try asking your question on alt.hvac.

You'll get more replies from the professionals there.


Yeah, right.

"Peter" wrote in message
...

Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

Do you have an EPA card?

The shraeder valve seems to be tapped off the side
of a regular valve... Am I correct in assuming this is
the service valve which needs to be opened in order
to read the pressure. This might be a dumb question
but the valve seems to be closed pretty tightly and I
don't want to take a chance on destroying anything.
No handle on the valve...so I'm just trying to get a
"yes, this is the valve you open" or "No, don't
touch that valve..try this approach instead" answer.

I won't give suggestions. That could possibly open me up to a lawsuit.

So, connect the gauge.... open the valve using a
wrench and read appropriate pressures...is this correct ???

If you say so.

Also what pressures should there be ? Someone mentioned
a low head pressure of around 200 would be normal while measuring
a 20 degree temperature drop at a vent. Also low pressure side should
measure about 55 -65.

Pressures ain't squat. You need to look at the superheat and subcooling.

Can anyone recommend a good online site for home a/c maintenance
and repair tutorials ?? All my google searchs have been disappointing.

No recommendations.

Thanks in advance.....

You're welcome.

Peter

You really should be satisfied with measuring the temp drop across the coil.
That won't get you hurt either, most likely.

HeatMan wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
. ..

Peter wrote:


Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

The shraeder valve seems to be tapped off the side
of a regular valve... Am I correct in assuming this is
the service valve which needs to be opened in order
to read the pressure. This might be a dumb question
but the valve seems to be closed pretty tightly and I
don't want to take a chance on destroying anything.
No handle on the valve...so I'm just trying to get a
"yes, this is the valve you open" or "No, don't
touch that valve..try this approach instead" answer.

So, connect the gauge.... open the valve using a
wrench and read appropriate pressures...is this correct ???

Also what pressures should there be ? Someone mentioned
a low head pressure of around 200 would be normal while measuring
a 20 degree temperature drop at a vent. Also low pressure side should
measure about 55 -65.

Can anyone recommend a good online site for home a/c maintenance
and repair tutorials ?? All my google searchs have been disappointing.

Thanks in advance.....

Peter

Try asking your question on alt.hvac.

You'll get more replies from the professionals there.



Yeah, right.




The Devil made me do that...

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?"

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 10:51:53 -0400, Peter wrote:


Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

The shraeder valve seems to be tapped off the side
of a regular valve... Am I correct in assuming this is
the service valve which needs to be opened in order
to read the pressure. This might be a dumb question
but the valve seems to be closed pretty tightly and I
don't want to take a chance on destroying anything.
No handle on the valve...so I'm just trying to get a
"yes, this is the valve you open" or "No, don't
touch that valve..try this approach instead" answer.

So, connect the gauge.... open the valve using a
wrench and read appropriate pressures...is this correct ???

Also what pressures should there be ? Someone mentioned
a low head pressure of around 200 would be normal while measuring
a 20 degree temperature drop at a vent. Also low pressure side should
measure about 55 -65.

Can anyone recommend a good online site for home a/c maintenance
and repair tutorials ?? All my google searchs have been disappointing.

Thanks in advance.....

Peter

My properly charged system on a 98 degree day has a head pressure of
310 and a suction pressure of 57.

I found a pdf file on the web that says to charge it with the
superheat method and gives charts with superheat specifications.

Sorry but my system doesn't have adjustable valves to isolate the
condenser.

"Peter" wrote in message
...

Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

Peter,
It's a lot more involved then that. Unless you've been properly trained
and practiced with supervision, you run a 99.9% chance of allowing air (a
non condensable) into the system just by attaching the gauge set.

If you do some reading, there are numerous things to check without
attaching gauges. I'll post some good links for you by tomorrow.

-zero

What's the point if you're not licensed to buy refrigerant anyway?

On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:27:26 GMT, "zero" wrote:


"Peter" wrote in message
.. .

Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

Peter,
It's a lot more involved then that. Unless you've been properly trained
and practiced with supervision, you run a 99.9% chance of allowing air (a
non condensable) into the system just by attaching the gauge set.

If you do some reading, there are numerous things to check without
attaching gauges. I'll post some good links for you by tomorrow.

-zero

Thanks !!! Whatever I can learn will be most helpful !!!

Peter

Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system.
CY: Why? Supposing you do get some pressures. What will you do with
the information?

I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.
CY: I own a couple scalpels, and some gauze. And some sutures. But
that doesn't mean I should go cutting into people.

The shraeder valve seems to be tapped off the side
of a regular valve... Am I correct in assuming this is
the service valve which needs to be opened in order
to read the pressure.
CY: Actually, no.

This might be a dumb question
but the valve seems to be closed pretty tightly and I
don't want to take a chance on destroying anything.
No handle on the valve...so I'm just trying to get a
"yes, this is the valve you open" or "No, don't
touch that valve..try this approach instead" answer.
CY: No, don't touch that valve. Don't have to touch the valve to read
the pressures.

So, connect the gauge.... open the valve using a
wrench and read appropriate pressures...is this correct ???
CY: Not correct.

Also what pressures should there be ? Someone mentioned
a low head pressure of around 200 would be normal while measuring
a 20 degree temperature drop at a vent. Also low pressure side
should
measure about 55 -65.
CY: That depends on the indoor and outdoor temperatures, and also
depends if the coils are clean or dirty. Also depends on air flow
through the coils. Do you know which valve allows you to read the head
pressure? And which hose goes to which fitting? You mention two
fittings on the AC. But your gages very likely have three hoses. Blue,
yellow, and red. Were you able to find the third fitting on the AC
system?

Can anyone recommend a good online site for home a/c maintenance
and repair tutorials ?? All my google searchs have been
disappointing.
CY: Don't know of any.

Thanks in advance.....
CY: I'm guessing you are an engineer?

Peter

CY: At the moment, it sounds like you have a real curiosity. But there
are some things which are dangerous, and this is one of those. Yes, it
is possible to hurt yourself by not knowing what you're doing with a
set of gages.

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 00:59:38 GMT, Steve Kraus wrote:

What's the point if you're not licensed to buy refrigerant anyway?


Several things on my mind...... I had several techs look at the problem
(paid for several opinions). This is on a system in operation for about
12 years....seemed to be working fine and then blew a breaker one day.

First team of techs said it was leaking "like a sieve" from the flare coupling
by the metering valve. When they checked the freon, it was only a little
low. So one would think "leaking like a sieve" means freon should be
pretty low. But they quoted 375 head pressure and 55 low pressurre.
Estimated cost to repair leak and clean both coils was 650 - to 850 dollars.

Second tech comes in, measures charge, looks at leak (doesn't use a sniffer) and
says "you have a leak, you're a little low on freon.....I will overcharge the system a
little to so it will work until you have a chance to talk to our salesperson.". He
estimated 1200. to correct the leak, another $500 to clean the evaporator coil.
Total of $1800. Clear message "Buy a new system" He was very technically correct
in saying.."overcharging will kill the compressor" and " you will have water damage
on floor" (low freon will cause evap coil to freeze).

Another tech suggested using a can of HVAC-R stop leak.

Three weeks later, system is still cooling fine. I am looking to verify loss of freon.
One way or another, it's important to get this situation resolved.

With a new Bryant A/C running anywhere from 5 to 10 K (actual quotes)....... it would be
important to me to see exactly how much of a leak is there and IF it can be stopped by
a can of HVAC-R sealer which was recently recommended. Also knowing how much of
a charge remains would be helpful to be able to discuss "solutions" intelligently. Do I
have 6 months to replace the system or 6 days. Also, did cleaning the coils actually
make a major difference in operating efficiency.

The members on this forum are a fantastic source of information and guidence making
it easier to become "knowledgeable" to solve minor problems, perform routine
maintenance maintenance and to make intelligent choics"

Peter

When a unit blows the breaker, the very first thing to do is look
at cleaning the outdoor unit. If the behavior continues, the next
step is to measure the amp draw of the motor. If this is well
within spec, the breaker may need to be replaced, it is not rare
for them to become weak with age. Some units benefit greatly by a
bit of shade on the outdoor unit. When temperatures are out of
control I would not recommend spraying water on the coil as the
mineral build up will exceed the limited benefit, though it is
often done.

Have you been adding Freon on a regular basis? A 20^ drop
between supply and return would be as good as you would ever do.
It will not be as much as the ambient goes up and can be as little
as 10 or 12. If the large diameter line entering your outdoor
unit is sweating or very cold, you are probably fine. The small
diameter line should be very hot to the touch. Make sure that the
filter is clean to allow sufficient air to move across the coil.
There should be an access door of some type at the A-coil that
would let you inspect the cleanliness of the coils.

You can test for a physical leak by squirting soapy water on the
fittings. Lava soap made into a liquid makes a great leak
detector. Unless the leak is substantial, it will be very hard to
see with a gauge set. The pressure numbers change continually
with temperature, etc. On a good hot day, I like the R22 scale to
read about 45. There is certainly more science involved than
this. The pressure you read is not like reading air pressure on a
tire gauge.

Residential split systems are meant to be 15 year systems. There
are many that go longer, but increased SEER ratings and motor
efficiencies would indicate to consider replacement.
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Peter" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 00:59:38 GMT, Steve Kraus
wrote:

What's the point if you're not licensed to buy refrigerant
anyway?


Several things on my mind...... I had several techs look at the
problem
(paid for several opinions). This is on a system in operation
for about
12 years....seemed to be working fine and then blew a breaker
one day.

First team of techs said it was leaking "like a sieve" from the
flare coupling
by the metering valve. When they checked the freon, it was
only a little
low. So one would think "leaking like a sieve" means freon
should be
pretty low. But they quoted 375 head pressure and 55 low
pressurre.
Estimated cost to repair leak and clean both coils was 650 - to
850 dollars.

Second tech comes in, measures charge, looks at leak (doesn't
use a sniffer) and
says "you have a leak, you're a little low on freon.....I will
overcharge the system a
little to so it will work until you have a chance to talk to our
salesperson.". He
estimated 1200. to correct the leak, another $500 to clean
the evaporator coil.
Total of $1800. Clear message "Buy a new system" He was
very technically correct
in saying.."overcharging will kill the compressor" and " you
will have water damage
on floor" (low freon will cause evap coil to freeze).

Another tech suggested using a can of HVAC-R stop leak.

Three weeks later, system is still cooling fine. I am looking
to verify loss of freon.
One way or another, it's important to get this situation
resolved.

With a new Bryant A/C running anywhere from 5 to 10 K (actual
quotes)....... it would be
important to me to see exactly how much of a leak is there and
IF it can be stopped by
a can of HVAC-R sealer which was recently recommended. Also
knowing how much of
a charge remains would be helpful to be able to discuss
"solutions" intelligently. Do I
have 6 months to replace the system or 6 days. Also, did
cleaning the coils actually
make a major difference in operating efficiency.

The members on this forum are a fantastic source of information
and guidence making
it easier to become "knowledgeable" to solve minor problems,
perform routine
maintenance maintenance and to make intelligent choics"

Peter

On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 12:22:33 -0500, "DanG" wrote:

When a unit blows the breaker, the very first thing to do is look
at cleaning the outdoor unit. If the behavior continues, the next
step is to measure the amp draw of the motor. If this is well
within spec, the breaker may need to be replaced, it is not rare
for them to become weak with age. Some units benefit greatly by a
bit of shade on the outdoor unit. When temperatures are out of
control I would not recommend spraying water on the coil as the
mineral build up will exceed the limited benefit, though it is
often done.


Cleaned both condensor and evaporator units. The breaker never
tripped again. It's been several weeks now.

I'll check the motor draw. (just because it's a nice thing to do)


Have you been adding Freon on a regular basis? A 20^ drop
between supply and return would be as good as you would ever do.
It will not be as much as the ambient goes up and can be as little
as 10 or 12. If the large diameter line entering your outdoor
unit is sweating or very cold, you are probably fine. The small
diameter line should be very hot to the touch.

No, with the exception of the service call two weeks ago who added freon to top
the system off, we haven't added anything for about 8 years.

Large is cold, small is hot. It seems that the top of the compressor
is hot to the touch.... I ordered a thermometer so to get some
accurate temperature reading. The laser ones looked tempting but I
settled for a less expensive one.


Make sure that the
filter is clean to allow sufficient air to move across the coil.
There should be an access door of some type at the A-coil that
would let you inspect the cleanliness of the coils.

Evap coils and inside of unit have been cleaned.... fins are in good
shape. I used the coil cleaning spray which penetrates the fins and
used a hose to rinse out the residue.


You can test for a physical leak by squirting soapy water on the
fittings. Lava soap made into a liquid makes a great leak
detector. Unless the leak is substantial, it will be very hard to
see with a gauge set. The pressure numbers change continually
with temperature, etc. On a good hot day, I like the R22 scale to
read about 45. There is certainly more science involved than
this. The pressure you read is not like reading air pressure on a
tire gauge.





Residential split systems are meant to be 15 year systems. There
are many that go longer, but increased SEER ratings and motor
efficiencies would indicate to consider replacement.

System has run trouble free up till now.... which makes it difficult to
determine whether it's repairable and will last for another 5 or so
years, If it was a problem child the decision would be easier. But
so far it's been solid as a rock, until now when it blew a breaker.
(btw, I'm working on this for a friend who has no idea about maintenance.
The coils have never been cleaned and no one ever told her about
replacing the filter either. She had a service contract for years but
stopped it recently.... I guess they never replaced the filter either.


Any idea of how much it would cost to replace the system ???


Your input and advice is very much appreciated !! Every little
bit of good advice helps !!!

Thanks again !!

Peter



______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Peter" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 27 Aug 2006 00:59:38 GMT, Steve Kraus
wrote:

What's the point if you're not licensed to buy refrigerant
anyway?


Several things on my mind...... I had several techs look at the
problem
(paid for several opinions). This is on a system in operation
for about
12 years....seemed to be working fine and then blew a breaker
one day.

First team of techs said it was leaking "like a sieve" from the
flare coupling
by the metering valve. When they checked the freon, it was
only a little
low. So one would think "leaking like a sieve" means freon
should be
pretty low. But they quoted 375 head pressure and 55 low
pressurre.
Estimated cost to repair leak and clean both coils was 650 - to
850 dollars.

Second tech comes in, measures charge, looks at leak (doesn't
use a sniffer) and
says "you have a leak, you're a little low on freon.....I will
overcharge the system a
little to so it will work until you have a chance to talk to our
salesperson.". He
estimated 1200. to correct the leak, another $500 to clean
the evaporator coil.
Total of $1800. Clear message "Buy a new system" He was
very technically correct
in saying.."overcharging will kill the compressor" and " you
will have water damage
on floor" (low freon will cause evap coil to freeze).

Another tech suggested using a can of HVAC-R stop leak.

Three weeks later, system is still cooling fine. I am looking
to verify loss of freon.
One way or another, it's important to get this situation
resolved.

With a new Bryant A/C running anywhere from 5 to 10 K (actual
quotes)....... it would be
important to me to see exactly how much of a leak is there and
IF it can be stopped by
a can of HVAC-R sealer which was recently recommended. Also
knowing how much of
a charge remains would be helpful to be able to discuss
"solutions" intelligently. Do I
have 6 months to replace the system or 6 days. Also, did
cleaning the coils actually
make a major difference in operating efficiency.

The members on this forum are a fantastic source of information
and guidence making
it easier to become "knowledgeable" to solve minor problems,
perform routine
maintenance maintenance and to make intelligent choics"

Peter

"Peter" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 26 Aug 2006 23:27:26 GMT, "zero"
wrote:


"Peter" wrote in message
. ..

Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system. I have
the manifold gauge set and located the shraeder valve
outputs for both sides.

Peter,
It's a lot more involved then that. Unless you've been properly
trained
and practiced with supervision, you run a 99.9% chance of allowing air (a
non condensable) into the system just by attaching the gauge set.

If you do some reading, there are numerous things to check without
attaching gauges. I'll post some good links for you by tomorrow.

-zero

Thanks !!! Whatever I can learn will be most helpful !!!

Peter

Here ya go Peter. Instead of a bunch of so-so ones, I found you 1 good
one
Keep following through the next links at the bottom of the pages:

http://www.longviewweb.com/r22.htm

You may never use that gauge set, but that's ok. After some good reading
you'll be more astute to weed through the service techs till you get a
competent one.

-zero

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system.

I know I will get flamed for this by the pros, but whatever....

If your system has the correct charge then the evap coil will be cold
for its full length but somewhere along the return pipe to the
compressor it will start to feel warmer indicting all the freon liquid
has evaporated and only vapor is returning to the compressor.

If the system is overcharged, the return pipe will be cold all the way
back to the compressor and liquid freon may be entering the comp which
is not really a good thing.

If the system is low on charge, then only a portion of the evap oil
will be cold, the portion nearest the expansion valve.

In short, with the correct charge, the full evap coil is cold, but not
the retun pipe.

This is obviously a guideline. Also, if you don't know what I mean by
evap coil or expansion valve then you need to do a bit more studying.

Mark

On 27 Aug 2006 19:16:49 -0700, "Mark" wrote:


Stormin Mormon wrote:
Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system.

I know I will get flamed for this by the pros, but whatever....

If your system has the correct charge then the evap coil will be cold
for its full length but somewhere along the return pipe to the
compressor it will start to feel warmer indicting all the freon liquid
has evaporated and only vapor is returning to the compressor.

If the system is overcharged, the return pipe will be cold all the way
back to the compressor and liquid freon may be entering the comp which
is not really a good thing.

If the system is low on charge, then only a portion of the evap oil
will be cold, the portion nearest the expansion valve.

In short, with the correct charge, the full evap coil is cold, but not
the retun pipe.

This is obviously a guideline. Also, if you don't know what I mean by
evap coil or expansion valve then you need to do a bit more studying.

Mark


Thanks !! I have a somewhat accurate laser thermometer coming in this
week (hopefully)...at which point accurate measurements will be taken
throughout the system. This guideline sounds like a good starting place.

Regarding the book... I've been working my way through John Tomczyk's
"Troubleshooting and Repairing Modern Air Conditioning Systems). It's been
pretty informative.and has good information, but the advice that has been
coming from the members on this forum has been priceless in helping me
understand what to look for and also finding information on the net.

Thanks again for your help !!

Peter

On 27 Aug 2006 19:16:49 -0700, "Mark" wrote:


Stormin Mormon wrote:
Bryant Air Conditioner 24000 btu split system - R-22.

I would like to read the charge on this system.

I know I will get flamed for this by the pros, but whatever....

If your system has the correct charge then the evap coil will be cold
for its full length but somewhere along the return pipe to the
compressor it will start to feel warmer indicting all the freon liquid
has evaporated and only vapor is returning to the compressor.

If the system is overcharged, the return pipe will be cold all the way
back to the compressor and liquid freon may be entering the comp which
is not really a good thing.

If the system is low on charge, then only a portion of the evap oil
will be cold, the portion nearest the expansion valve.

In short, with the correct charge, the full evap coil is cold, but not
the retun pipe.

This is obviously a guideline. Also, if you don't know what I mean by
evap coil or expansion valve then you need to do a bit more studying.

Mark

This is of course not correct. The suction line should be cold all the
way back to the condensing unit. the only way to correctly check is by
taking a superheat reading.

Several things on my mind...... I had several techs look at the
problem
(paid for several opinions). This is on a system in operation for
about
12 years....seemed to be working fine and then blew a breaker one day.
CY: Blown breakers, any of several reasons.

First team of techs said it was leaking "like a sieve" from the flare
coupling
by the metering valve. When they checked the freon, it was only a
little
low. So one would think "leaking like a sieve" means freon should
be
pretty low.
CY: yes, you'd think so.

But they quoted 375 head pressure and 55 low pressurre.
CY: We don't know what the temperatures were at the time he checked,
or if he told you the truth. But, if we make some WAG, here, the freon
may be a bit low, and the outdoor unit is in desperate need of
cleaning.

Estimated cost to repair leak and clean both coils was 650 - to 850
dollars.
CY: How much to just clean the outdoor unit?

Second tech comes in, measures charge, looks at leak (doesn't use a
sniffer) and
says "you have a leak, you're a little low on freon.....I will
overcharge the system a
little to so it will work until you have a chance to talk to our
salesperson.". He
estimated 1200. to correct the leak, another $500 to clean the
evaporator coil.
Total of $1800. Clear message "Buy a new system" He was very
technically correct
in saying.."overcharging will kill the compressor" and " you will
have water damage
on floor" (low freon will cause evap coil to freeze).
CY: Sounds like he's pushing a new system.

Another tech suggested using a can of HVAC-R stop leak.

Three weeks later, system is still cooling fine. I am looking to
verify loss of freon.
One way or another, it's important to get this situation resolved.
CY: I can undersand you wanting to get some real answers. Sounds like
every time you get another estimate, you get two more answers.

With a new Bryant A/C running anywhere from 5 to 10 K (actual
quotes)....... it would be
important to me to see exactly how much of a leak is there and IF it
can be stopped by
a can of HVAC-R sealer which was recently recommended. Also knowing
how much of
a charge remains would be helpful to be able to discuss "solutions"
intelligently. Do I
have 6 months to replace the system or 6 days. Also, did cleaning
the coils actually
make a major difference in operating efficiency.
CY: Yep, it sure is nice to be able to have some time to work. Dirty
coils really kill the efficiency of a unit. Did it help yours, to have
em cleaned? Depends how dirty, and how good was the cleaning they did.

The members on this forum are a fantastic source of information and
guidence making
it easier to become "knowledgeable" to solve minor problems,
perform routine
maintenance maintenance and to make intelligent choics"
CY: I've really learned a lot on alt home repair.

Peter

Cleaned both condensor and evaporator units. The breaker never
tripped again. It's been several weeks now.
CY: Might be time to just leave it, and keep using it. Could be about
as fixed as you'll get.

I'll check the motor draw. (just because it's a nice thing to do)
CY: Should be a name plate and the run amperage should be on the
plate.

Have you been adding Freon on a regular basis? A 20^ drop
between supply and return would be as good as you would ever do.
It will not be as much as the ambient goes up and can be as little
as 10 or 12. If the large diameter line entering your outdoor
unit is sweating or very cold, you are probably fine. The small
diameter line should be very hot to the touch.

No, with the exception of the service call two weeks ago who added
freon to top
the system off, we haven't added anything for about 8 years.
CY: That's good news.

Large is cold, small is hot. It seems that the top of the
compressor
is hot to the touch.... I ordered a thermometer so to get some
accurate temperature reading. The laser ones looked tempting but I
settled for a less expensive one.
CY: Normal for the compressor to be hot. Harbor Freight has infared
thermometers cheap enough. I got a couple of them that are keyring
size, for six bucks each. No laser aimer.

Make sure that the
filter is clean to allow sufficient air to move across the coil.
There should be an access door of some type at the A-coil that
would let you inspect the cleanliness of the coils.

Evap coils and inside of unit have been cleaned.... fins are in good
shape. I used the coil cleaning spray which penetrates the fins and
used a hose to rinse out the residue.
CY: Way to go.


Residential split systems are meant to be 15 year systems. There
are many that go longer, but increased SEER ratings and motor
efficiencies would indicate to consider replacement.

System has run trouble free up till now.... which makes it difficult
to
determine whether it's repairable and will last for another 5 or so
years, If it was a problem child the decision would be easier. But
so far it's been solid as a rock, until now when it blew a breaker.
CY: Probably dirty coils.

(btw, I'm working on this for a friend who has no idea about
maintenance.
The coils have never been cleaned and no one ever told her about
replacing the filter either. She had a service contract for years
but
stopped it recently.... I guess they never replaced the filter either.
CY: With that kind of service contract, sh eprobably needs her coils
cleaned, also.

low side should be 30 less that outside temp.

http://www.minibite.com/america/malone.htm

Sorry for not responding sooner... life suddenly became busy from
several different directions.


Several things on my mind...... I had several techs look at the
problem
(paid for several opinions). This is on a system in operation for
about
12 years....seemed to be working fine and then blew a breaker one day.
CY: Blown breakers, any of several reasons.

It was an indication to start looking into the cause. Lots of helpful suggestions
came in from this group and also from the diagnosis's of the technicians i.e.
coil cleaning. There was a lot of help from the group in checking out the
electrical part. And for suggesting ways to clean the coils. Plus measuring
temperature drops across the coils and on the vapor and liquid lines.

First team of techs said it was leaking "like a sieve" from the flare
coupling
by the metering valve. When they checked the freon, it was only a
little
low. So one would think "leaking like a sieve" means freon should
be
pretty low.
CY: yes, you'd think so.

WAG might be very correct..... I'd like to test and verify operation of as
many parts of the system as possible before giving an informed opinion.
Still need to map out temp's on different parts of the system and check
motor draw. Blowers are kinda noisy...so I need to check if these motors
bearing require oiling.


Estimated cost to repair leak and clean both coils was 650 - to 850
dollars.
CY: How much to just clean the outdoor unit?


Didn't get a separate quote for the outside unit, but this unit is through
the wall and is located about 16 feet off the ground. There is a condominium
hose spigot about 30 feet away. Plus the outside coil unit cover was painted
in place by an excellent maintenance crew. So unless the tech was really
motivated to do a good job......this would have been either a problem area or
the job would have been more costly and time consuming than estimated.



Second tech comes in, measures charge, looks at leak (doesn't use a
sniffer) and
says "you have a leak, you're a little low on freon.....I will
overcharge the system a
little to so it will work until you have a chance to talk to our
salesperson.". He
estimated 1200. to correct the leak, another $500 to clean the
evaporator coil.
Total of $1800. Clear message "Buy a new system" He was very
technically correct
in saying.."overcharging will kill the compressor" and " you will
have water damage
on floor" (low freon will cause evap coil to freeze).
CY: Sounds like he's pushing a new system.


His agenda was full of imminent doom which set off alarm bells. Part of the fault was
mine, because I don't know enough about a/c systems to determine how truthful he was.
So far he seemed to be pretty knowledgeable, except that his final solution " replace
system immediately" might not be the only option available. Time will tell.


Another tech suggested using a can of HVAC-R stop leak.

Three weeks later, system is still cooling fine. I am looking to
verify loss of freon.
One way or another, it's important to get this situation resolved.
CY: I can undersand you wanting to get some real answers. Sounds like
every time you get another estimate, you get two more answers.




With a new Bryant A/C running anywhere from 5 to 10 K (actual
quotes)....... it would be
important to me to see exactly how much of a leak is there and IF it
can be stopped by
a can of HVAC-R sealer which was recently recommended. Also knowing
how much of
a charge remains would be helpful to be able to discuss "solutions"
intelligently. Do I
have 6 months to replace the system or 6 days. Also, did cleaning
the coils actually
make a major difference in operating efficiency.
CY: Yep, it sure is nice to be able to have some time to work. Dirty
coils really kill the efficiency of a unit. Did it help yours, to have
em cleaned? Depends how dirty, and how good was the cleaning they did.

Thanks to the advice of this group, I located some coil cleaners online and
cleaned coils myself. They started off caked with dirt and finished looking
pretty new. Took my time, followed the advice of this group, didn't do any damage and
with a little persistence the coils came clean.

It would be nice to have a method to verify how more effective the system was after the
cleaning


The members on this forum are a fantastic source of information and
guidence making
it easier to become "knowledgeable" to solve minor problems,
perform routine
maintenance maintenance and to make intelligent choics"
CY: I've really learned a lot on alt home repair.


Agreed.... this group is like having an expert at your side I enjoy returning
the favor by providing advice where I'm qualified and have the knowledge to
do so. Makes it fun to do home maintenance and upgrades. Guess we
all enjoy working on stuff.

So how much more do I have to know before you tell me how to use the
manifold gauge set ????


Peter

On Tue, 29 Aug 2006 09:59:13 -0400, wrote:

low side should be 30 less that outside temp.


Using this method would certainly damage the system.

wrote in message
...

low side should be 30 less that outside temp.

Drink much?


-zero