I need some advice,

Have a house, built 1958. Subflooring in basement rotted, from boiler
leak. Original tiling in bathroom and finished rec room lifted up,
chipped, splintered in several areas. A rug from the previous owners
was put down to hide this problem, we ripped it up last year, that is
when damage was discovered. A relative, not knowing about asbestos
tiling, chipped more tiled areas away and replaced some parts with new
plywood. I vaccumed up splintered tiles a few weeks ago. Had NO clue
about asbestos in tiles, or the cut back until I did a search about
50's floor tiling a week ago. So basically, now left with this HUGE
problem and have no idea how to fix it. Cost is a huge issue. Abatement
sounds very scarey. The areas right now are covered either with
plywood, rugs or odds of vinyl flooring. I've called one contractor for
an estimate, explained problem, he didn't seem to eager for the job but
said he'd come in later in the week to give an estimate. I called
HDepot as we were planning to not disturb it anymore and lay plywood
down, and was told we could use a respirator to clean up tile and to
keep us safe, but then read a respirator is NOT effective. I also
realize that there are laws governing proper removal of asbestos (I'm
in Ontario).

Is the best thing to do to not touch any more damage and just get new
plywood laid on top of damaged tiles and then put a rug down??? Or, do
we get the whole thing ripped out???? I realize the exposure to this is
serious, my entire family throughout the years has been exposed to this
everytime they were in the house. I understand that *most* health
problems have been linked to repeated, prolonged exposure....I am also
wondering if the cut back glue, which is black, once saturated with
water, would release harmful odours into the air??? There has been a
smell down there, that we attributed to "basement smell" for years, but
now I'm wondering if it is the glue.....We would like to eventually
sell the house....Please advise.

"KittiKat" wrote in message
oups.com...
I need some advice,

Have a house, built 1958. Subflooring in basement rotted, from boiler
leak. Original tiling in bathroom and finished rec room lifted up,
chipped, splintered in several areas. A rug from the previous owners
was put down to hide this problem, we ripped it up last year, that is
when damage was discovered. A relative, not knowing about asbestos
tiling, chipped more tiled areas away and replaced some parts with new
plywood. I vaccumed up splintered tiles a few weeks ago. Had NO clue
about asbestos in tiles, or the cut back until I did a search about
50's floor tiling a week ago. So basically, now left with this HUGE
problem and have no idea how to fix it. Cost is a huge issue. Abatement
sounds very scarey. The areas right now are covered either with
plywood, rugs or odds of vinyl flooring. I've called one contractor for
an estimate, explained problem, he didn't seem to eager for the job but
said he'd come in later in the week to give an estimate. I called
HDepot as we were planning to not disturb it anymore and lay plywood
down, and was told we could use a respirator to clean up tile and to
keep us safe, but then read a respirator is NOT effective. I also
realize that there are laws governing proper removal of asbestos (I'm
in Ontario).

Is the best thing to do to not touch any more damage and just get new
plywood laid on top of damaged tiles and then put a rug down??? Or, do
we get the whole thing ripped out???? I realize the exposure to this is
serious, my entire family throughout the years has been exposed to this
everytime they were in the house. I understand that *most* health
problems have been linked to repeated, prolonged exposure....I am also
wondering if the cut back glue, which is black, once saturated with
water, would release harmful odours into the air??? There has been a
smell down there, that we attributed to "basement smell" for years, but
now I'm wondering if it is the glue.....We would like to eventually
sell the house....Please advise.


Have you tested the tile to see if it really is asbestos? It only costs
$30-50?

Bob

:
"KittiKat" wrote in message
oups.com...
I need some advice,

Have a house, built 1958. Subflooring in basement rotted, from boiler
leak. Original tiling in bathroom and finished rec room lifted up,
chipped, splintered in several areas. A rug from the previous owners
was put down to hide this problem, we ripped it up last year, that is
when damage was discovered. A relative, not knowing about asbestos
tiling, chipped more tiled areas away and replaced some parts with new
plywood. I vaccumed up splintered tiles a few weeks ago. Had NO clue
about asbestos in tiles, or the cut back until I did a search about
50's floor tiling a week ago. So basically, now left with this HUGE
problem and have no idea how to fix it. Cost is a huge issue. Abatement
sounds very scarey. The areas right now are covered either with
plywood, rugs or odds of vinyl flooring. I've called one contractor for
an estimate, explained problem, he didn't seem to eager for the job but
said he'd come in later in the week to give an estimate. I called
HDepot as we were planning to not disturb it anymore and lay plywood
down, and was told we could use a respirator to clean up tile and to
keep us safe, but then read a respirator is NOT effective. I also
realize that there are laws governing proper removal of asbestos (I'm
in Ontario).

Is the best thing to do to not touch any more damage and just get new
plywood laid on top of damaged tiles and then put a rug down??? Or, do
we get the whole thing ripped out???? I realize the exposure to this is
serious, my entire family throughout the years has been exposed to this
everytime they were in the house. I understand that *most* health
problems have been linked to repeated, prolonged exposure....I am also
wondering if the cut back glue, which is black, once saturated with
water, would release harmful odours into the air??? There has been a
smell down there, that we attributed to "basement smell" for years, but
now I'm wondering if it is the glue.....We would like to eventually
sell the house....Please advise.


floor tile is non friable and also usually has a low percentage of asbestos so your exposure has been very minimal. here in mn, you can remove floor tile with the plywood subfloor attached and dispose of it with construction demo. is the contractor you called an asbestos abatement contractor? call a few of them--they'll know the rules about asbestos floor tile in your area. and yes, laying down a layer of plywood over it is a good way to go. the absolute very last place i would ask for advice would be home depot.

"KittiKat" wrote in message
So basically, now left with this HUGE
problem


No, not realy.

and have no idea how to fix it. Cost is a huge issue. Abatement
sounds very scarey.

No, really simple.

I called
HDepot as we were planning to not disturb it anymore and lay plywood
down, and was told we could use a respirator to clean up tile and to
keep us safe, but then read a respirator is NOT effective. I also
realize that there are laws governing proper removal of asbestos (I'm
in Ontario).

Most tiles are not considered a hazard and can be readily removed. I don't
know specifics of your country though. Scrape up the tile, put it in a bag
and trash is is all that is required. You can cover it with plywood and then
forget about it as it is covered and not a hazard.


Is the best thing to do to not touch any more damage and just get new
plywood laid on top of damaged tiles and then put a rug down??? Or, do
we get the whole thing ripped out???? I realize the exposure to this is
serious, my entire family throughout the years has been exposed to this
everytime they were in the house. I understand that *most* health
problems have been linked to repeated, prolonged exposure...

Not to tiles, but to actual asbestos in the air. The tile encapsulates it
making it safe. Really. YOur family will suffer no harm.


..I am also
wondering if the cut back glue, which is black, once saturated with
water, would release harmful odours into the air??? There has been a
smell down there, that we attributed to "basement smell" for years, but
now I'm wondering if it is the glue.....We would like to eventually
sell the house....Please advise.

I doubt the glue is releasing odors after all these years. Scrape off what
you can.

First, it's very unclear exactly what kind of flooring you have, where
it's located, what is rotted, how it's all held in place, etc. If you
have rotted material, like a sub floor, then just covering it up is not
an option.

I'd also ask the same question as the other poster. Are you sure it
contains asbestos? Has it been tested?

I wouldn't get freaked out by the fact that you were living with
asbestos in floor tile without knowing it. It only becomes dangerous
when it's disturbed and enters the air. And all you did
was chip out some of it, it's unlikely much entered the air. Now, if
you start cutting it up with a saw, that's a diff matter.

I'd check the local laws regarding approved removal methods and who can
do it. Since you are concerned about selling the property, I would
most likely go with removing it completely as opposed to
just covering it up. Generally, the procedure is to seal off the area
that contains it, establish air flow that sucks air out of the area to
the outside and a HEPA filter, wet it down and then remove it in as
large sections as possible, using suitable protection.

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"KittiKat" wrote in message
So basically, now left with this HUGE
problem


No, not realy.

and have no idea how to fix it. Cost is a huge issue. Abatement
sounds very scarey.

No, really simple.

I called
HDepot as we were planning to not disturb it anymore and lay plywood
down, and was told we could use a respirator to clean up tile and to
keep us safe, but then read a respirator is NOT effective. I also
realize that there are laws governing proper removal of asbestos (I'm
in Ontario).

Most tiles are not considered a hazard and can be readily removed. I don't
know specifics of your country though. Scrape up the tile, put it in a bag
and trash is is all that is required. You can cover it with plywood and then
forget about it as it is covered and not a hazard.


With the disclosure laws now in place in many areas, you can't just
forget about it. Most disclosure forms, if required, have questions
that if truthfully answered, will disclose to the buyer that there is
asbestos tile present, regardless of whether you covered it up.







Is the best thing to do to not touch any more damage and just get new
plywood laid on top of damaged tiles and then put a rug down??? Or, do
we get the whole thing ripped out???? I realize the exposure to this is
serious, my entire family throughout the years has been exposed to this
everytime they were in the house. I understand that *most* health
problems have been linked to repeated, prolonged exposure...

Not to tiles, but to actual asbestos in the air. The tile encapsulates it
making it safe. Really. YOur family will suffer no harm.


.I am also
wondering if the cut back glue, which is black, once saturated with
water, would release harmful odours into the air??? There has been a
smell down there, that we attributed to "basement smell" for years, but
now I'm wondering if it is the glue.....We would like to eventually
sell the house....Please advise.

I doubt the glue is releasing odors after all these years. Scrape off what
you can.

wrote:

With the disclosure laws now in place in many areas, you can't just
forget about it. Most disclosure forms, if required, have questions
that if truthfully answered, will disclose to the buyer that there is
asbestos tile present, regardless of whether you covered it up.

Only IF you KNOW it's asbestos. That's why one should give second thoughts
to having an "official" determination made.

Best thing is to scrape up the stuff and leave it in a school yard during
the dark of the moon.

HeyBub wrote:
wrote:
With the disclosure laws now in place in many areas, you can't just
forget about it. Most disclosure forms, if required, have questions
that if truthfully answered, will disclose to the buyer that there is
asbestos tile present, regardless of whether you covered it up.

Only IF you KNOW it's asbestos. That's why one should give second thoughts
to having an "official" determination made.

Best thing is to scrape up the stuff and leave it in a school yard during
the dark of the moon.

LOL, bet we all know someone who would.

In article .com,
KittiKat wrote:

I need some advice,

[snippage]

Is the best thing to do to not touch any more damage and just get new
plywood laid on top of damaged tiles and then put a rug down??? Or, do
we get the whole thing ripped out???? I realize the exposure to this is
serious, my entire family throughout the years has been exposed to this
everytime they were in the house. I understand that *most* health
problems have been linked to repeated, prolonged exposure....I am also

Not most. *All.* And that means heavy exposure to raw, airborne
asbestos fibers, such as you might find in a mining environment, eight
hours a day for 20-30 years with no respirator. You and all other
homeowners have nothing to worry about from asbestos floor tiles,
popcorn ceilings or Transite siding. Tear it out. Take it to the
landfill. Put new stuff in. That's all you have to do. You inhale more
and nastier stuff on a typical day at the beach.

The lawyers have really got you all scared on this issue. And they are
the only ones benefitting from it.

wondering if the cut back glue, which is black, once saturated with
water, would release harmful odours into the air??? There has been a
smell down there, that we attributed to "basement smell" for years, but
now I'm wondering if it is the glue.....We would like to eventually
sell the house....Please advise.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

Frank Warner wrote:

KittiKat wrote:

I need some advice,

I understand that *most* health problems have been linked to repeated,
prolonged exposure....

Not most. *All.* And that means heavy exposure to raw, airborne
asbestos fibers, such as you might find in a mining environment, eight
hours a day for 20-30 years with no respirator. You and all other
homeowners have nothing to worry about from asbestos floor tiles,
popcorn ceilings or Transite siding. Tear it out. Take it to the
landfill. Put new stuff in. That's all you have to do. You inhale more
and nastier stuff on a typical day at the beach.

The lawyers have really got you all scared on this issue. And they are
the only ones benefitting from it.

I'm sure you have a valid argument, up to a point. "Eight hours a day
for 20-30 years with no respirator" flies in the face of common sense
and common knowledge of public cases. We could ask Steve McQueen
but....... he's dead.

In article x6rCg.14100$hj4.3429@trnddc03, F. H.
wrote:

Frank Warner wrote:

KittiKat wrote:

I need some advice,

I understand that *most* health problems have been linked to repeated,
prolonged exposure....

Not most. *All.* And that means heavy exposure to raw, airborne
asbestos fibers, such as you might find in a mining environment, eight
hours a day for 20-30 years with no respirator. You and all other
homeowners have nothing to worry about from asbestos floor tiles,
popcorn ceilings or Transite siding. Tear it out. Take it to the
landfill. Put new stuff in. That's all you have to do. You inhale more
and nastier stuff on a typical day at the beach.

The lawyers have really got you all scared on this issue. And they are
the only ones benefitting from it.

I'm sure you have a valid argument, up to a point. "Eight hours a day
for 20-30 years with no respirator" flies in the face of common sense
and common knowledge of public cases. We could ask Steve McQueen

but....... he's dead.

McQueen never worked an asbestos mine. He did, however, have a
four-pack-a-day Pall-Mall habit.

My uncle worked an asbestos mine. Was later a packer. Also smoked. It's
a toss-up what killed him (1970 or so). He was on pure oxygen the last
five years of his life, suffering from both emphesema and asbestosis.

There was little if any common sense about asbestos mining in the 40s
and 50s. Back then it was "one of the safest materials known to man,"
and you mined it without worry about health hazards. Concurrently,
doctors touted the health benefits of smoking. What's common sense now
is a bit different than it was back then.

You might be able to find an isolated case or two of a homeowner who
contracted asbestosis through exposure to products used in the
construction of his home, but I bet you won't be able to find very
many.

-Frank

--
Here's some of my work:
http://www.franksknives.com/

Frank Warner wrote:
In article x6rCg.14100$hj4.3429@trnddc03, F. H.
wrote:

Frank Warner wrote:

KittiKat wrote:

I need some advice,
I understand that *most* health problems have been linked to repeated,
prolonged exposure....
Not most. *All.* And that means heavy exposure to raw, airborne
asbestos fibers, such as you might find in a mining environment, eight
hours a day for 20-30 years with no respirator. You and all other
homeowners have nothing to worry about from asbestos floor tiles,
popcorn ceilings or Transite siding. Tear it out. Take it to the
landfill. Put new stuff in. That's all you have to do. You inhale more
and nastier stuff on a typical day at the beach.

The lawyers have really got you all scared on this issue. And they are
the only ones benefitting from it.
I'm sure you have a valid argument, up to a point. "Eight hours a day
for 20-30 years with no respirator" flies in the face of common sense
and common knowledge of public cases. We could ask Steve McQueen

but....... he's dead.

McQueen never worked an asbestos mine. He did, however, have a
four-pack-a-day Pall-Mall habit.

McQueen had been surrounded by asbestos all of his life. As a young
adult, McQueen was employed in the construction industry, where asbestos
was often present at job sites. While serving as a Marine, McQueen
worked at shipyards where he was responsible for stripping asbestos off
the pipes used in naval ships (asbestos was used in the insulation of
modern ships built before 1976). It has also been suggested that
McQueen, an avid car racer, may have been exposed to asbestos when
repairing the brake linings of race cars and/or wearing the protective
helmets and driving suits associated with the sport.
http://www.allaboutmalignantmesothel...es-mcqueen.htm

My uncle worked an asbestos mine. Was later a packer. Also smoked. It's
a toss-up what killed him (1970 or so). He was on pure oxygen the last
five years of his life, suffering from both emphesema and asbestosis.

Thats not the same as malignant mesothelioma, is it? That one person
might have a high resistance to environmental toxins is not a valid
argument against the impact on others.

There was little if any common sense about asbestos mining in the 40s
and 50s. Back then it was "one of the safest materials known to man,"
and you mined it without worry about health hazards. Concurrently,
doctors touted the health benefits of smoking. What's common sense now
is a bit different than it was back then.

What you posted (IMHO) is a tad beyond what would be called common sense
now.

You might be able to find an isolated case or two of a homeowner who
contracted asbestosis through exposure to products used in the
construction of his home, but I bet you won't be able to find very
many.

How many would be acceptable? As I understand it, malignant mesothelioma
caused by inhaling asbestos particles is *extremely* slow to develop.
That being the case, your "bet" is sort of a Relativist Fallacy. At any
rate, once (MM) hits, you are toast. That being the case, I would treat
*any* asbestos with a great deal of respect.

"F. H." wrote in message

McQueen had been surrounded by asbestos all of his life. As a young adult,
McQueen was employed in the construction industry, where asbestos was
often present at job sites. While serving as a Marine, McQueen worked at
shipyards where he was responsible for stripping asbestos off the pipes
used in naval ships (asbestos was used in the insulation of modern ships
built before 1976). It has also been suggested that McQueen, an avid car
racer, may have been exposed to asbestos when repairing the brake linings
of race cars and/or wearing the protective helmets and driving suits
associated with the sport.
http://www.allaboutmalignantmesothel...es-mcqueen.htm


Many mechanics are exposed to brake linings. That has been pretty much
dismissed as a cause. McQueen would have been dead from it whether or not
he had tile floors. Stripping asbestos off of pipes can be a problem as it
wil release some fine particles. Asbestos is not a cause for panic. Like
anything else, common sense and education, not histeria, is the way to
handle the siduation.

In article F%JCg.5029$AF1.1425@trndny03,
"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote:


Many mechanics are exposed to brake linings. That has been pretty much
dismissed as a cause. McQueen would have been dead from it whether or not
he had tile floors. Stripping asbestos off of pipes can be a problem as it
wil release some fine particles. Asbestos is not a cause for panic. Like
anything else, common sense and education, not histeria, is the way to
handle the siduation.

He also smoked like a chimney which has a well establish additive
effect to even low levels of asbestos expsoure.