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What can I replace this latching relay system with?
"Steve Wechsler" wrote in message
ups.com... Marc_F_Hult wrote: I set up a test jig with two INSTEON light switches (didn't have dimmers available handily available but this is a test of INSTEON communication, not output mode) interconnected using ) two UL-listed Class 2, 24volt, 20VA "doorbell" transformers and four 0.22 ufd 250VAC capacitors removed as part of the modification of 15amp, X10 PRO filters. The connection worked without error using both ~200 feet CAT5 and ~200feet 22 awg round (untwisted) telephone wire. I'll post some pictures and a schematic later to www.ECOntrol.org/INSTEON0verCAT5.htm ) (not up yet) Marc, this is a good idea, but unfortunately I don't think I can use it: 1. The switches are not installed in electric boxes, just frames generally used for low voltage wiring. While this is not insurmountable, more serious is that: 2. Doorbell transformers are way too large to fit in a single wall (or ceiling) box. I don't know where you live, Steve, but the inspectors I'm familiar with would have a canary if you: a) stripped out the existing low voltage controls for your (AFAIK) already inspected and approved GE lighting system and then: b) replaced them with an assortment of electronic switches designed and labeled to operate at 110VAC but modified by you to operate at 20 to 24VAC, and then: c) connected these switches to doorbell transformers as well as adding: d) four 0.22 ufd 250VAC capacitors via the existing, apparently undocumented, GE low voltage multiconductor cabling. My feelings about how the inspector would react is just a hunch, though, even though it's based on things like inspectors failing an installation just because the plug-in transformers don't say Class 2. He might not just have a canary, he might give birth to a whole cow! Perhaps if an inspector has previous experience with your house and great faith in your skills, he will permit you to install the above equipment. Maybe. Of course, if the inspector thinks you're a PITA, he might approve your novel wiring scheme on the basis that some serious electrical shocks might cause a personality improvement! (-: I also have one other concern; namely: is there any mechanism in place preventing high current from being sent over the low voltage wires (if a short should develop in the switch) and causing it to act like a heating coil? I'm not an electronics wiz by any stretch of the imagination, so forgive me if this is me just showing my ignorance. It's a legitimate question and one the inspector's bound to concern himself with. The National Electrical Code (NEC) abounds with rules concerning the proper isolation of low voltage control wires from the 110 or 220VAC devices they control. The issues in these cases are preventing electric shock as well as keeping undersized (and perhaps unfused) low voltage wires from carrying high voltage and starting a fire. Connecting a device designed and labeled to operate on 110VAC as a low voltage device would make an inspector very unhappy. Even IF you explained you had wired it so the just the low voltage functions of the switch were in operation. He would be especially reluctant to approve that "off label" use if he got that idea that the switches you installed had already been found to be defective. As you know, Smarthome has admitted to issues with those Insteon switches and is modifying them before selling any more. Bearing that "quiet recall" in mind, he's even LESS likely to permit the use of such switches in a way substantially different than the manufacturer recommends. Someone else also suggested going back to the rotary controllers and making all the connections there. That was me. I suggested splicing a connector out of the existing wiring harness going to the master switch as a means to interface with the house wiring from one place (and, restore it easily to its "premodification status"). Unfortunately, this won't work either: I did some testing yesterday, and it appears that most lights are NOT connected to these controllers (in fact, the only device that I know for a fact is connected to that controller is our house fan, which I'm planning to remove anyway) Well, that sucks. It's hard to believe that they're not connected to anything except the house fan. I wonder whether it was always that way or whether a previous owner already performed some wiring surgery? I've cross-posted this to AHR as well as CHA because AHR has a much greater readership. Alt.Home.Repair also has a lot of electricians and very savvy DIY's. They may have already figured out a way of upgrading the old GE LV system that's in your house. I really don't see any way of maintaining intellectual control over the upgrade without spending some serious time with a fox and hound tracing set and a multimeter. My experience in large cities and metro suburbs has been that the inspector is not going to approve a rewiring job if he has reason to believe you don't understand the existing wiring that you're modifying. Yours, unfortunately, is not just a simple case of replacing existing switches or fixtures. Those types of upgrades often don't even require a permit in most jurisdictions, if done by the homeowner. However, that's not you. You're contemplating a fundamental change in the wiring of your house. The inspector will be very much on the lookout for modifications that have the potential to shock or cause fires - and the running of 110VAC through small gauge, low voltage wiring, even accidentally, is just asking for a fire in the walls. If you search Google for "electrical inspection requirements" among other terms, you'll find that the more complex the rewiring and the less traditional your replacement solution, the more inspectors will demand of you in terms of wiring diagrams and demonstrations of proficiency in things electrical. Out in the boonies where the chance of an electrical fire burning down your neighbor's house is small, they may look the other way and cheerfully let you immolate yourself. The risks rise as buildings get closer and closer to each other. Places like NYC and Chicago have *incredibly* stringent electrical rules (way above what the NEC requires) because urban fires can spread so quickly. In NYC, for example, you must use armored cable, not Romex. The requirements become even more stringent in multifamily and attached dwellings. In most jurisdictions, the inspectors have final say. If you don't like it, you don't get approved. If they don't believe you're skilled enough to do what you propose or that your proposal is flawed, you won't get approved. That's why I'm encouraging you to select a replacement that uses approved components in an approved way (although it's something you already seem to know well!). You don't want the inspector to condemn your house while you're still living there! So let me state a new question: is there any wireless system that provides a small inline switching module combined with a wireless single or dual switch? So far, all I'm seeing is these: X10 Pro: http://www.activehomepro.com/accesso...pdf_wa1_s.html Insteon: http://www.smarthome.com/2475d.html Neither system, however, appears to sell a single stick-anywhere switch. The X10 4-way would work in a pinch, I suppose, especially since one of the four is a dimmer and the other two could be programmed as macros... I believe that once you get used to the four position switches, you'll not want to go back, especially if you program them in "walking order" so that you can turn off the lights behind you and turn on the lights ahead of you from the same switch. As you've already noted, you can also use the extra buttons for macros and my hunch is that they will become far more useful than you realize. Does your breaker box look like a typical unit? Are there circuit breakers that represent areas of the house or is there a breaker or output for each separate load? -- Bobby G. |
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