Folks:
First, I am not a sparky. I do my own electrical work, as we are
allowed to do here. I follow the relevant Code provisions, pull
permits, and submit it for inspection. I am in perfect agreement with
any pros who look down on homeowners who do careless electrical work,
as about 50% of that which I've seen is questionable and 10% is
abhorrent.

Okay. At present, I am upgrading my service from a relatively nice 60A
fuse box to a 200A CH series panel, which is a new job for me, and the
usual practices around here leads me to wonder about some things.

First, around here, cable electrical services are usual. It is also
common to run the SE cable in a short length of conduit below the meter
socket, through an LB into the house, because the lower length is prone
to physical damage, from cars if on a driveway, from the wild hedge
trimmer if not. Theoretically the PVC is Sch 80 but frankly a lot of
houses have whatever Big Blue or Big Orange carry.

Here's the problem: SE cable is not the greatest thing for use inside
raceway.
If the raceway is big enough, the code allows it, but it's stiff and
hard to pull and certainly
not as suitable as, say, XHHW. Unfortunately, I can't use that...the
local AHJ doesn't want
raceway leading right from the meter pan to the box, because it's too
easy for water to get in.

I suppose my own question is answered...stop the raceway just inside
the wall & pull in the SE cable. Sigh. I just don't like it. Has
anybody else run into this problem?

What I would really like to do is run a Sch 80 PVC mast with XHHW
conductors, and Sch 80 conduit from the meter pan to box.
Unfortunately they look at you like a madman when you ask for XHHW
around here and suggest THHN for use in a conduit mast. I will
probably have to go with the cable, which does not make me happy...not
because I hate cable. The cable's fine. It's the watertight connector
that bothers me. You're not supposed to trust these to actually *be*
watertight, and you are to press sealant around them to keep water out.
Alas, this sealant never lasts long -- from expansion or sun or
whatever, it tends to dry out and not stay stuck to the cable and
connector, and seems just like a major kluge to me. And right
below the watertight conn. the nice aluminum conductors run to the
nice lugs, with a coat of Penetrox to keep the aluminum from attempting
to return to nature. Urk. And this is supposed to last for 30 yrs.
without maintenance...and frankly, it usually works very well,
but...the whole business makes me very unhappy.

Cordially yours:
Gerard P.

While you certainly need to adhere to the AHJ in your local, but, personally
I'd use a 2" pvc standpipe into the meter and 2" sch 80 from meter to panel
which is technically equal to steel, then I'd use #2/0 copper THWN as THHN
is not NEC compliant in wet locations and copper will last longer and it's
easy to pull. You will however need a mortgage to buy it right now


wrote in message
oups.com...
Folks:
First, I am not a sparky. I do my own electrical work, as we are
allowed to do here. I follow the relevant Code provisions, pull
permits, and submit it for inspection. I am in perfect agreement with
any pros who look down on homeowners who do careless electrical work,
as about 50% of that which I've seen is questionable and 10% is
abhorrent.

Okay. At present, I am upgrading my service from a relatively nice 60A
fuse box to a 200A CH series panel, which is a new job for me, and the
usual practices around here leads me to wonder about some things.

First, around here, cable electrical services are usual. It is also
common to run the SE cable in a short length of conduit below the meter
socket, through an LB into the house, because the lower length is prone
to physical damage, from cars if on a driveway, from the wild hedge
trimmer if not. Theoretically the PVC is Sch 80 but frankly a lot of
houses have whatever Big Blue or Big Orange carry.

Here's the problem: SE cable is not the greatest thing for use inside
raceway.
If the raceway is big enough, the code allows it, but it's stiff and
hard to pull and certainly
not as suitable as, say, XHHW. Unfortunately, I can't use that...the
local AHJ doesn't want
raceway leading right from the meter pan to the box, because it's too
easy for water to get in.

I suppose my own question is answered...stop the raceway just inside
the wall & pull in the SE cable. Sigh. I just don't like it. Has
anybody else run into this problem?

What I would really like to do is run a Sch 80 PVC mast with XHHW
conductors, and Sch 80 conduit from the meter pan to box.
Unfortunately they look at you like a madman when you ask for XHHW
around here and suggest THHN for use in a conduit mast. I will
probably have to go with the cable, which does not make me happy...not
because I hate cable. The cable's fine. It's the watertight connector
that bothers me. You're not supposed to trust these to actually *be*
watertight, and you are to press sealant around them to keep water out.
Alas, this sealant never lasts long -- from expansion or sun or
whatever, it tends to dry out and not stay stuck to the cable and
connector, and seems just like a major kluge to me. And right
below the watertight conn. the nice aluminum conductors run to the
nice lugs, with a coat of Penetrox to keep the aluminum from attempting
to return to nature. Urk. And this is supposed to last for 30 yrs.
without maintenance...and frankly, it usually works very well,
but...the whole business makes me very unhappy.

Cordially yours:
Gerard P.

RBM (remove this) wrote:
While you certainly need to adhere to the AHJ in your local, but, personally
I'd use a 2" pvc standpipe into the meter and 2" sch 80 from meter to panel
which is technically equal to steel, then I'd use #2/0 copper THWN as THHN
is not NEC compliant in wet locations and copper will last longer and it's
easy to pull. You will however need a mortgage to buy it right now

RBM:

I like that idea a lot. A. smaller wire B. not depending on one-shot
inaccessible dope for corrosion resistance. Unfortunately the local
electric suppliers don't stock even Cu THWN that big as it would be a
rare sale at best ...there's mostly cable services around here, too.
Graybar might have it, but I don't know how small a piece they'd be
willing to sell. I will check tomorrow.

Of course, I'd still need to use cable from the meter to the
box...unless I could convince the inspector otherwise. Cu SE cable is
a completely mythical beast around here, even ore so than #2/0 Cu, and
if I'm going to use #4/0 Al for that I might as well use it for the
mast, as they both end up buried in the meter pan. Hmf. It is a
quandary.

Cordially yours:
Gerard P.

I would think they should allow you to fill the entrance condulet with
silicone to exclude water. Are there no electrical supply houses in your
area?
wrote in message
ups.com...

RBM (remove this) wrote:
While you certainly need to adhere to the AHJ in your local, but,
personally
I'd use a 2" pvc standpipe into the meter and 2" sch 80 from meter to
panel
which is technically equal to steel, then I'd use #2/0 copper THWN as
THHN
is not NEC compliant in wet locations and copper will last longer and
it's
easy to pull. You will however need a mortgage to buy it right now

RBM:

I like that idea a lot. A. smaller wire B. not depending on one-shot
inaccessible dope for corrosion resistance. Unfortunately the local
electric suppliers don't stock even Cu THWN that big as it would be a
rare sale at best ...there's mostly cable services around here, too.
Graybar might have it, but I don't know how small a piece they'd be
willing to sell. I will check tomorrow.

Of course, I'd still need to use cable from the meter to the
box...unless I could convince the inspector otherwise. Cu SE cable is
a completely mythical beast around here, even ore so than #2/0 Cu, and
if I'm going to use #4/0 Al for that I might as well use it for the
mast, as they both end up buried in the meter pan. Hmf. It is a
quandary.

Cordially yours:
Gerard P.

RBM (remove this) wrote:
I would think they should allow you to fill the entrance condulet with
silicone to exclude water. Are there no electrical supply houses in your
area?

RBM:

Yup, there are. I just found out that Graybar could order XHHW
or THWN-insulated 2/0 Cu for me from their Cleveland office...
(@ $2.95 per foot, vs. $1.10 for Al, ooooh the pain...)
but believe it or not, they're the only ones I can find. This is a
strictly Al SEU-serviced town, as far as homes are concerned.
I am going to end up looking a proper chump for using copper
in conduit. Copper SEU cable of any kind is unobtainable locally
even from Graybar.

I keep running into funny stuff like this. The local utility's
standards
literature demands an insulator fixed to the house structure with a
5/8" bolt and nut...got plenty of weird looks asking for anything like
that, so I called up ye power company that be and was told that
the usual screw-in insulator is fine. Gee, maybe they should
mention that to their engineers.

Cordially yours:
Gerard P.

wrote:
Folks:
First, I am not a sparky. I do my own electrical work, as we are
allowed to do here. I follow the relevant Code provisions, pull
permits, and submit it for inspection. I am in perfect agreement with
any pros who look down on homeowners who do careless electrical work,
as about 50% of that which I've seen is questionable and 10% is
abhorrent.

Okay. At present, I am upgrading my service from a relatively nice 60A
fuse box to a 200A CH series panel, which is a new job for me, and the
usual practices around here leads me to wonder about some things.

First, around here, cable electrical services are usual. It is also
common to run the SE cable in a short length of conduit below the meter
socket, through an LB into the house, because the lower length is prone
to physical damage, from cars if on a driveway, from the wild hedge
trimmer if not. Theoretically the PVC is Sch 80 but frankly a lot of
houses have whatever Big Blue or Big Orange carry.

Here's the problem: SE cable is not the greatest thing for use inside
raceway.
If the raceway is big enough, the code allows it, but it's stiff and
hard to pull and certainly
not as suitable as, say, XHHW. Unfortunately, I can't use that...the
local AHJ doesn't want
raceway leading right from the meter pan to the box, because it's too
easy for water to get in.

I suppose my own question is answered...stop the raceway just inside
the wall & pull in the SE cable. Sigh. I just don't like it. Has
anybody else run into this problem?

What I would really like to do is run a Sch 80 PVC mast with XHHW
conductors, and Sch 80 conduit from the meter pan to box.
Unfortunately they look at you like a madman when you ask for XHHW
around here and suggest THHN for use in a conduit mast. I will
probably have to go with the cable, which does not make me happy...not
because I hate cable. The cable's fine. It's the watertight connector
that bothers me. You're not supposed to trust these to actually *be*
watertight, and you are to press sealant around them to keep water out.
Alas, this sealant never lasts long -- from expansion or sun or
whatever, it tends to dry out and not stay stuck to the cable and
connector, and seems just like a major kluge to me. And right
below the watertight conn. the nice aluminum conductors run to the
nice lugs, with a coat of Penetrox to keep the aluminum from attempting
to return to nature. Urk. And this is supposed to last for 30 yrs.
without maintenance...and frankly, it usually works very well,
but...the whole business makes me very unhappy.

Cordially yours:
Gerard P.

You can use clear silicon caulk to seal the cable fitting and apply the
Duct sealant that the inspectors prefer over it.

Be very careful about sizing the LB. Since your inspector obviously
makes up the rules as he goes along ask him what size he will except.
As for the weatherproof connector issue you can bring the cable into the
bottom of the meter can if it is listed for that use. Who provides the
meter enclosure in your area? If its you then buy one that is suitable
for overhead or underground entry and bring the supply cable into the
bottom of the can. That approach may get your inspector to except the
raceway all the way to the Service Disconnecting Means enclosure.

If you do run raceway to the service enclosure be aware that the
internal depth of the LBs are governed by the provisions of section
314.28 Pull and Junction Boxes and Conduit Bodies. The exception to
subsection A (2) requires LBs to have a depth equal to the value called
out in Table 312.6(A). For 4/0 conductors that table requires a 4 inch
distance between the back entry to the LB and the cover. You may need
to use a mogul LB or an over sized LB with reducing bushings. If you
run the USE cable through the LB it may need to be even larger.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison