I recently replaced my "over the kitchen sink" light fixture with a
rapid start (no starter) fixture. The bulb will not ligh up unless I
jiggle the bulb. This of course is unacceptable. There is one
problem with the circuit that I think could be the culprit. There is
no grounf wire in the loop. Does this type of fixture absolutelly need
to be grounded?

ABSOLUTELY GROUND FOR SAFETY!

Close by the sink its a severe shock hazard.

Too see if the intermittent light is a ground run a ground wire from
the fixture to a known good ground like the 3rd prong in a grounded
outlet.

i believe your fixture has a bad contact for the lamp, or the lamp isnt
in right

ABSOLUTELY GROUND FOR SAFETY!

Close by the sink its a severe shock hazard.

Too see if the intermittent light is a ground run a ground wire from
the fixture to a known good ground like the 3rd prong in a grounded
outlet.

i believe your fixture has a bad contact for the lamp, or the lamp isnt
in right

In article , mstrspy wrote:

I recently replaced my "over the kitchen sink" light fixture with a
rapid start (no starter) fixture. The bulb will not ligh up unless I
jiggle the bulb. This of course is unacceptable. There is one
problem with the circuit that I think could be the culprit. There is
no grounf wire in the loop. Does this type of fixture absolutelly need
to be grounded?

It is widely recommended to ground the fixture. Grounding the fixture
affects the electric field distribution within a bulb that is trying to
start but has not yet become conductive, and this is often although not
always necessary for the bulb to "spark through" (my words).

Even if you get a bulb and ungrounded fixture that work together, this
can be unreliable. The bulb can age and its ability to start in an
ungrounded fixture can vary with temperature and these changes can be to
the extent of making a fixture require grounding to achieve starting even
if it started without grounding in the past.

I would say ground the fixture!

In addition, the bulb often needs to be within 1/2 inch of grounded
metal and if the ballast case is metal it should be attached to a grounded
metal fixture in case any secondary winding in the ballast has a ground
connection.

- Don Klipsatein )

mstrspy wrote:
I recently replaced my "over the kitchen sink" light fixture with a
rapid start (no starter) fixture. The bulb will not ligh up unless I
jiggle the bulb. This of course is unacceptable. There is one
problem with the circuit that I think could be the culprit. There is
no grounf wire in the loop. Does this type of fixture absolutelly need
to be grounded?

By code, I believe it is required.

For safety, it needs to be grounded

For function it needs to be grounded (that is likely why the light is
difficult to start)

It may be that cheap lamp sockets are the problem.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Grounding the fixture requires a third wire at the fixture. I do not
have this since the house has old two wire romex or what ever the hell
they called it 50 years ago. I have lived in the house for 28 years
and never had "shock" issues at the kitchen sink. The outlets on the
counter top are grounded with GFI.
Grounding the ceiling fixture wil cost about $500.00 to get an
electrician. (they won't come in for less).
I think I will replace the fixture with the starter type rather than
rapid start. That seemed to work for many years.


On Mon, 29 May 2006 12:42:20 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

mstrspy wrote:
I recently replaced my "over the kitchen sink" light fixture with a
rapid start (no starter) fixture. The bulb will not ligh up unless I
jiggle the bulb. This of course is unacceptable. There is one
problem with the circuit that I think could be the culprit. There is
no grounf wire in the loop. Does this type of fixture absolutelly need
to be grounded?

By code, I believe it is required.

For safety, it needs to be grounded

For function it needs to be grounded (that is likely why the light is
difficult to start)

It may be that cheap lamp sockets are the problem.

you DONT get it. If the fixture malfunctions it can KILL!

50 year old wire probably isnt romex..

Is it covered with metal? Then its likely BX and the outer metal
covering is probably a ground.

mstrspy wrote:
Grounding the fixture requires a third wire at the fixture. I do not
have this since the house has old two wire romex or what ever the hell
they called it 50 years ago. I have lived in the house for 28 years
and never had "shock" issues at the kitchen sink. The outlets on the
counter top are grounded with GFI.
Grounding the ceiling fixture wil cost about $500.00 to get an
electrician. (they won't come in for less).
I think I will replace the fixture with the starter type rather than
rapid start. That seemed to work for many years.


If that is the case, then it is going to cost you $500 to get a safe
light. However chances are it has armored cable BX that has a metal jacket
around it. You need to make sure that it is still grounded and some Buba
has not spliced in a section of romex and not provided a proper ground.

If the lamp is not grounded as required and there is a fault, it can
kill someone. The reasons the codes require the grounding is because not
doing so has killed a significant number of people.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

The wiring is not BX it is that old crappy clothlike insulation on
the outside and the actual wires have a plastic insulation. There are
two leads.... really lousey wiring and the previous owner was an
electrician. When I meved in 28 years ago, the electric dryer was
wired right into the box with no 3 prong plug.

The like fixure is on the ceiling. I put back the fixture with the
starting capacitor. Seems to work okay. As far as aground is
concerned, I will snake a wire (one element ) up to the fixture. I
probably should put the thingon a GFI circuit.




On Mon, 29 May 2006 16:23:37 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

mstrspy wrote:
Grounding the fixture requires a third wire at the fixture. I do not
have this since the house has old two wire romex or what ever the hell
they called it 50 years ago. I have lived in the house for 28 years
and never had "shock" issues at the kitchen sink. The outlets on the
counter top are grounded with GFI.
Grounding the ceiling fixture wil cost about $500.00 to get an
electrician. (they won't come in for less).
I think I will replace the fixture with the starter type rather than
rapid start. That seemed to work for many years.


If that is the case, then it is going to cost you $500 to get a safe
light. However chances are it has armored cable BX that has a metal jacket
around it. You need to make sure that it is still grounded and some Buba
has not spliced in a section of romex and not provided a proper ground.

If the lamp is not grounded as required and there is a fault, it can
kill someone. The reasons the codes require the grounding is because not
doing so has killed a significant number of people.

Sorry for all of the typos on my previous posts. I'm working with an
HP Pavilin Laptop and the keyboard is horrible.

On Mon, 29 May 2006 21:21:32 GMT, mstrspy wrote:

The wiring is not BX it is that old crappy clothlike insulation on
the outside and the actual wires have a plastic insulation. There are
two leads.... really lousey wiring and the previous owner was an
electrician. When I meved in 28 years ago, the electric dryer was
wired right into the box with no 3 prong plug.

The like fixure is on the ceiling. I put back the fixture with the
starting capacitor. Seems to work okay. As far as aground is
concerned, I will snake a wire (one element ) up to the fixture. I
probably should put the thingon a GFI circuit.




On Mon, 29 May 2006 16:23:37 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

mstrspy wrote:
Grounding the fixture requires a third wire at the fixture. I do not
have this since the house has old two wire romex or what ever the hell
they called it 50 years ago. I have lived in the house for 28 years
and never had "shock" issues at the kitchen sink. The outlets on the
counter top are grounded with GFI.
Grounding the ceiling fixture wil cost about $500.00 to get an
electrician. (they won't come in for less).
I think I will replace the fixture with the starter type rather than
rapid start. That seemed to work for many years.


If that is the case, then it is going to cost you $500 to get a safe
light. However chances are it has armored cable BX that has a metal jacket
around it. You need to make sure that it is still grounded and some Buba
has not spliced in a section of romex and not provided a proper ground.

If the lamp is not grounded as required and there is a fault, it can
kill someone. The reasons the codes require the grounding is because not
doing so has killed a significant number of people.