I am in the process of replacing the wiring in my in-laws 100 year old
house. So far the work has been in the basement, with short runs up to the
appliances. But now I'll need to run wires up to the attic for ceiling
lights, fans, and smoke detectors.

The current knob and tube wiring actually runs along the OUTSIDE of the
house between the basement and attic, and is seriously corroded with
crumbling insulation. Obviously, this is not an acceptable way of routing
the wires!

Normally I'd just drill a hole at the top, one at the bottom, and dangle a
string down to connect the two. But as is common in these old houses, there
is blocking partway up inside the wall. They have 12 foot ceilings, so I
don't know yet whether there is a single block, or additional blocks.

I DO NOT want to cut into the old plaster and lath walls, so what is the
best way to get a wire through the wall in this case? I remember seeing
really long drill bits at Lowes, but I don't remember how long they were,
and am concerned they wouldn't reach far enough into the 12 foot high
walls.

If all else fails, I figured I could mount a length of conduit in the
corner of one of the closets, as a chase to run wires from the basement to
the attic. But I'd prefer to fish the wires in the wall if possible.

Any tips?

Anthony

You could find wind bracing in the walls, which are criss crosses, and they
make snaking really tough. You don't say how many floors are involved, but
if it's just one, you can easily run lines inside a closet from basement to
attic. If it's two floors and you find two closets, one on top of another,
you can go through both. Also you may find a cast iron stack pipe in the
attic, which often has enough space around it to drop lines from attic to
basement. If all else fails, run a conduit outside the house



"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
I am in the process of replacing the wiring in my in-laws 100 year old
house. So far the work has been in the basement, with short runs up to the
appliances. But now I'll need to run wires up to the attic for ceiling
lights, fans, and smoke detectors.

The current knob and tube wiring actually runs along the OUTSIDE of the
house between the basement and attic, and is seriously corroded with
crumbling insulation. Obviously, this is not an acceptable way of routing
the wires!

Normally I'd just drill a hole at the top, one at the bottom, and dangle a
string down to connect the two. But as is common in these old houses,
there
is blocking partway up inside the wall. They have 12 foot ceilings, so I
don't know yet whether there is a single block, or additional blocks.

I DO NOT want to cut into the old plaster and lath walls, so what is the
best way to get a wire through the wall in this case? I remember seeing
really long drill bits at Lowes, but I don't remember how long they were,
and am concerned they wouldn't reach far enough into the 12 foot high
walls.

If all else fails, I figured I could mount a length of conduit in the
corner of one of the closets, as a chase to run wires from the basement to
the attic. But I'd prefer to fish the wires in the wall if possible.

Any tips?

Anthony

In article , HerHusband wrote:
[snip[
I DO NOT want to cut into the old plaster and lath walls, so what is the
best way to get a wire through the wall in this case? I remember seeing
really long drill bits at Lowes, but I don't remember how long they were,
and am concerned they wouldn't reach far enough into the 12 foot high
walls.

If all else fails, I figured I could mount a length of conduit in the
corner of one of the closets, as a chase to run wires from the basement to
the attic. But I'd prefer to fish the wires in the wall if possible.

I'd go with the conduit in a closet. BTDT.

Any tips?

Put the conduit in one of the *front* corners of the closet. Nobody will ever
know it's there -- who goes into a closet and then turns around to look at the
door?

Conduit is cheap. Don't skimp. Use a big one. Like three inches.You may want
to run more circuits later.

If you're just really set against using conduit, you could build an actual
chase with studs and drywall... but conduit's a *lot* cheaper, and faster to
install.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Greenlee makes those 6 foot long bits that fit in a standard electric
drill, plus they sell extensions for greater length. The bit has a hole
in the business end, drill thru, attach wire and pull bit back
retrieving wire too.

I once went thru about 12 feet into a closed space above cabinets.

they work great

Doug,

Put the conduit in one of the *front* corners of the closet. Nobody
will ever know it's there -- who goes into a closet and then turns
around to look at the door?

That's kind of what I was thinking. Easy to install, and basically out of
sight.

you could build an actual chase with studs and drywall.

Inside the wall is my first choice, the conduit my second, and building a
chase in the closet was my third backup plan.

Unless the first two options don't work out for some reason, I'd rather
avoid having to do any sheetrock, taping, painting, etc. I have enough work
to do already.

By the way, my in-laws currently have one or two electrical outlets per
room mounted in the 8" high baseboard. I'm planning on adding a few more.
Are there any codes that would prevent me from locating additional outlets
in the baseboard? I'm concerned that trying to cut holes for outlets in the
plaster/lath would turn into a big mess of crumbling plaster. Cutting holes
in the wood baseboard would be a lot less destructive, and simplify access
from the basement.

Anthony

Greenlee makes those 6 foot long bits that fit in a standard electric
drill, plus they sell extensions for greater length. The bit has a hole
in the business end, drill thru, attach wire and pull bit back
retrieving wire too.

Thanks! I was wondering if they had extensions or not. A bit and an
extension would probably let me reach from the attic down to the basement.
I'll have to see what is available on my next trip to the store.

Anthony

In article , HerHusband wrote:
Doug,

Put the conduit in one of the *front* corners of the closet. Nobody
will ever know it's there -- who goes into a closet and then turns
around to look at the door?

That's kind of what I was thinking. Easy to install, and basically out of
sight.

you could build an actual chase with studs and drywall.

Inside the wall is my first choice, the conduit my second, and building a
chase in the closet was my third backup plan.

Esthetically speaking, inside the wall would be my first choice too, but as a
practical matter the conduit-in-the-closet wins out IMO.

Unless the first two options don't work out for some reason, I'd rather
avoid having to do any sheetrock, taping, painting, etc. I have enough work
to do already.

I hear that!!

By the way, my in-laws currently have one or two electrical outlets per
room mounted in the 8" high baseboard. I'm planning on adding a few more.
Are there any codes that would prevent me from locating additional outlets
in the baseboard?

Nothing in the National Electrical Code that I'm aware of. You might want to
check with a local code inspector to see if there are any local restrictions,
though.

I'm concerned that trying to cut holes for outlets in the
plaster/lath would turn into a big mess of crumbling plaster.

Depends on how you do it. My preferred method is to mark the outline of the
opening and score it with a cold chisel (using light taps). If you're careful,
you can get a pretty clean cut through the whitecoat (finish plaster). Then,
using firmer blows with the hammer, chisel through the browncoat too. Remove
the plaster in chunks. Then use a *sharp* hand saw to cut through the lath. No
power tools -- too much vibration and dust.

Of course, this method also depends on having pretty solid, strong plaster. If
your plaster is weak, then just about anything you do is going to turn it into
a crumbling mess.

Cutting holes
in the wood baseboard would be a lot less destructive, and simplify access
from the basement.

May be more difficult to cut, though: you have to go through 3/4" of wood
*and* the plaster and lath, instead of only the plaster and lath.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

HerHusband wrote:

I am in the process of replacing the wiring in my in-laws 100 year old
house. So far the work has been in the basement, with short runs up to the
appliances. But now I'll need to run wires up to the attic for ceiling
lights, fans, and smoke detectors.
snip

If all else fails, I figured I could mount a length of conduit in the
corner of one of the closets, as a chase to run wires from the basement to
the attic. But I'd prefer to fish the wires in the wall if possible.

Any tips?

I have done this twice. The first one was knob-n-tube. I will
never fish thru an exterior wall again. So I run the conduit
up the interior walls and all outlets and switches are on the
interior walls.

As for runnig conduit to the attic, the closet is the I would
do it. I ran the conduit thru the corner of the closet nearest
the door and inside a PVC pipe that went through both floors
(first floor and attic floor.

Also where I have seen knob-n-tube, the meter has been inside
the house. Almost everywhere code is going to call for the
meter to be outside. And as soon as you do that, you will an
electrician to pull a permit and to inspect and approve your
wiring. I learned that after-the-fact when the meter reader
saw the changes. Fortunately I found a cooperative contractor
(35 years ago). He liked my work.

Dick

On 2006-05-27, HerHusband wrote:

By the way, my in-laws currently have one or two electrical outlets
per room mounted in the 8" high baseboard. I'm planning on adding a
few more. Are there any codes that would prevent me from locating
additional outlets in the baseboard?

As another poster mentioned, this is compliant with the NEC, so the
only issue would be some additional local code. I did this in my
house with 1x10 baseboards. It gives you an extra 3/4" of depth, so
the really deep boxes will fit in a 2x3 interior wall. It is also
easier to cut the wood neatly than to cut the plaster neatly.

My method was to use a rotary cutter (rotozip) set to the proper depth
to cut out the baseboard. I made a template that I could just nail in
place and run the rotary cutter around the inside. After cutting out
the plaster, I mounted an old work box to the baseboard with
screws--if you want to use plaster ears, you need an old work box with
extra long screws on the plaster ears because of the baseboard
thickness. Then I had to use "midsize" faceplates to provide proper
coverage of the box and screws.

Cheers, Wayne

all outlets and switches are on the interior walls.

There's no insulation in my in-law's house, so fishing wires to the outlets
from the basement should be no problem. As long as there's no blocking in
the wall, the switches won't be too bad either.

It's the full run from top to bottom where blocking is involved that it'll
be an issue. I'm "hoping" the interior walls don't have the blocking, but
haven't had the chance to check that out yet.

I ran the conduit thru the corner of the closet

Seems to be the overall favorite...

Almost everywhere code is going to call for the meter to be outside.
And as soon as you do that, you will an electrician to pull a permit

I already have a permit, and the new panel and meter have already been
inspected and approved. It's just a matter of updating all the individual
circuits now.

The current knob and tube wiring has everything on ONE circuit.

Anthony

On Sat, 27 May 2006 12:37:41 -0500, HerHusband
wrote:

Greenlee makes those 6 foot long bits that fit in a standard electric
drill, plus they sell extensions for greater length. The bit has a hole
in the business end, drill thru, attach wire and pull bit back
retrieving wire too.

Thanks! I was wondering if they had extensions or not. A bit and an

The extensions are the same 1 foot extensions that work with spade
bits, etc.

extension would probably let me reach from the attic down to the basement.
I'll have to see what is available on my next trip to the store.

Not only are they six feet long, they are flexible. there is also a
tool that goes into the wall to help you point the bit the way you
want it to go. It has never been useful to me. The times I've tried
it, I've found it not very good.

There might be long drill bits that are stiff. I haven't seen them.
It would have helped me in a situation something like yours. I was
in the attic lying on my belly, with my arm into the stack around the
heating ducts (new house) and with my arm and an extension I could
reach the middle of the stack where there was a sheet of plywood, a
fire stop I guess. Because the bit was flexible, and dull from use,
it was hard to drill the hole, but eventually I got it through.

But flexibility has other advantages, like the ability to start
through a hole in the sheetrock and drill down to the basement.

Or the ability to start in the basement, and go in a bit above the
foundation, then up the wall.

I did this once, aiming for just to the left of the hall and front
door light switches. Unforunately it's very hard to control direction
from there, so I drilled into the bottom of the platic box, and ripped
the wire out of one of the toggle switches. Heh, double insulated
drills are great to have. The whole basement went dark when I blew
the breaker in the hall. But the second time I tried, I hit the
right spot, for my burlgar alarm touch-pad to panel wires.

(I couldn't have drilled this hole down from a hole in the sheerock,
because the new hole for the touchpad was going to be right above the
lightswitches, and I didn't want to take the lightswitches and their
box out.) If it had been someone else's house, maybe I would have
done things differently, but I don't know how.)

Anthony

On Sat, 27 May 2006 10:28:01 -0500, HerHusband wrote:

Normally I'd just drill a hole at the top, one at the bottom, and dangle a
string down to connect the two. But as is common in these old houses, there
is blocking partway up inside the wall. They have 12 foot ceilings, so I
don't know yet whether there is a single block, or additional blocks.

They are fire stops.

Don www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

"HerHusband" wrote in message ...
I am in the process of replacing the wiring in my in-laws 100 year old
house. So far the work has been in the basement, with short runs up to the
appliances. But now I'll need to run wires up to the attic for ceiling
lights, fans, and smoke detectors.

The current knob and tube wiring actually runs along the OUTSIDE of the
house between the basement and attic, and is seriously corroded with
crumbling insulation. Obviously, this is not an acceptable way of routing
the wires!

Normally I'd just drill a hole at the top, one at the bottom, and dangle a
string down to connect the two. But as is common in these old houses, there
is blocking partway up inside the wall. They have 12 foot ceilings, so I
don't know yet whether there is a single block, or additional blocks.

I DO NOT want to cut into the old plaster and lath walls, so what is the
best way to get a wire through the wall in this case? I remember seeing
really long drill bits at Lowes, but I don't remember how long they were,
and am concerned they wouldn't reach far enough into the 12 foot high
walls.

If all else fails, I figured I could mount a length of conduit in the
corner of one of the closets, as a chase to run wires from the basement to
the attic. But I'd prefer to fish the wires in the wall if possible.

Any tips?

I went up into the attic, and dropped a plumbing snake down along the waste vent
pipe. This, with a little work, went through all the way to the basement. I then pulled
wire, and additional pulling cord through. I probably ended up with 6 or 7 12/2 wires
with no big problem.

Then it's just a problem of running wires from rooms to the attic.

Bob

My 120 plus year old house, with remodeling about 85 years ago has the
same kind of challenges. Although there indeed may be no blocking as
mentioned by an earlier poster, there is just as likely a chance to
find flocking in odd places/spaces/spacing.

When they installed the heating system in the 20"s, they made a square
channel to run some pipes up. If I didn't look carefully I could have
missed this "channel" in a little hallway. In addition, I created my
own "channel" in an upstairs bathrood by putting in an angled wall
behind the toilet (the vend pipe had been boxed in, just on that
floor). This gave me a shot down and up (I'm 3 stories, not sure what
you are dealing with). I rand a plastic onduit up this for future
purposes, and left a pull string in.

I was not able to find a place where I could run a 3 foot drill bit.
Before I got carried away with trying stuff, I would drill a small
pilot hole large enough for a 4 guage ground wire and use that to
determine how far I could go before hitting an obstacle.

IMHO adding the channel in the closet may be your fastest alternative.

You can always consider doing what they had to at I believe it was
Sears tower where they realized they had left out floor to floor
chases, and had to add and external chase! You could probably hide
that along side a chimney.

On Sun, 28 May 2006, nospamgoingjag wrote:

You can always consider doing what they had to at I believe it was
Sears tower where they realized they had left out floor to floor
chases, and had to add and external chase! You could probably hide
that along side a chimney.

In NYC at the Waterside apartnment complex they did not prewire for phones
when it was built in 1974. So those wires run all around on the outside of
moldings. The buildings were in the news recently, as the architect for it
died a week or so ago.

Don www.donwiss.com (e-mail link at home page bottom).

On Sat, 27 May 2006 10:28:01 -0500, HerHusband
wrote:

I am in the process of replacing the wiring in my in-laws 100 year old
house. So far the work has been in the basement, with short runs up to the
appliances. But now I'll need to run wires up to the attic for ceiling
lights, fans, and smoke detectors.

The current knob and tube wiring actually runs along the OUTSIDE of the
house between the basement and attic, and is seriously corroded with
crumbling insulation. Obviously, this is not an acceptable way of routing
the wires!

Normally I'd just drill a hole at the top, one at the bottom, and dangle a
string down to connect the two. But as is common in these old houses, there
is blocking partway up inside the wall. They have 12 foot ceilings, so I
don't know yet whether there is a single block, or additional blocks.

I DO NOT want to cut into the old plaster and lath walls, so what is the
best way to get a wire through the wall in this case? I remember seeing
really long drill bits at Lowes, but I don't remember how long they were,
and am concerned they wouldn't reach far enough into the 12 foot high
walls.

If all else fails, I figured I could mount a length of conduit in the
corner of one of the closets, as a chase to run wires from the basement to
the attic. But I'd prefer to fish the wires in the wall if possible.

Any tips?

Anthony
100 years ago they more than likely used what is called ballon
framing. Today platform framing is used. With ballon framing the
corner braces and floor brackets were let in to the long 2X4's. Since
there was no platform like we have today, you should be able to snake
a wire up from the basement to the attic with no interferance. This
type of construction is illegal now as there is a perfect path for
fire to travel in the wall cavity.

As has been said there should be vent pipes or water pipes or hot water
pipe of heating ducts you may be able to get next to. I would also look
for closets you could use.

wayne

klaatu wrote:

On Sat, 27 May 2006 10:28:01 -0500, HerHusband
wrote:

I am in the process of replacing the wiring in my in-laws 100 year
old house. So far the work has been in the basement, with short
runs up to the appliances. But now I'll need to run wires up to the
attic for ceiling lights, fans, and smoke detectors.

The current knob and tube wiring actually runs along the OUTSIDE of
the house between the basement and attic, and is seriously corroded
with crumbling insulation. Obviously, this is not an acceptable way
of routing the wires!

Normally I'd just drill a hole at the top, one at the bottom, and
dangle a string down to connect the two. But as is common in these
old houses, there is blocking partway up inside the wall. They have
12 foot ceilings, so I don't know yet whether there is a single
block, or additional blocks.

I DO NOT want to cut into the old plaster and lath walls, so what
is the best way to get a wire through the wall in this case? I
remember seeing really long drill bits at Lowes, but I don't
remember how long they were, and am concerned they wouldn't reach
far enough into the 12 foot high walls.

If all else fails, I figured I could mount a length of conduit in
the corner of one of the closets, as a chase to run wires from the
basement to the attic. But I'd prefer to fish the wires in the wall
if possible.

Any tips?

Anthony
100 years ago they more than likely used what is called ballon
framing. Today platform framing is used. With ballon framing the
corner braces and floor brackets were let in to the long 2X4's. Since
there was no platform like we have today, you should be able to snake
a wire up from the basement to the attic with no interferance. This
type of construction is illegal now as there is a perfect path for
fire to travel in the wall cavity.

As has been said there should be vent pipes or water pipes or hot water
pipe of heating ducts you may be able to get next to. I would also look
for closets you could use.

My in-laws house is a single story. From what I can tell, it was originally
built without electricity, and only minimal plumbing. The only heat was an
oil stove, and the stove and chimney were removed many years ago. There's
no ductwork of any type, all plumbing is in the basement except for a
single 2" vent that runs on the outside of the house.

I plan on drilling a couple of small holes top and bottom to see if an
interior wall is free from blocking. If not, I'll go with conduit in one of
the closets.

Anthony

Ah, the single story does add a twist since nothing needs to penetrate
too far. Oh well.

A note regarding "fishing" through the probe holes. As I mentioned
earlier I used a heavy guage ground wire that I measured and marked
with tape at certain legths so I knew how far I was getting before
hitting an obstruction. I had tried to use a string with various
weighted objects attached including a plumb bob, but they are very
clumsy to move around. There may be a path for what you want to do,
it just might not be in an exact straight path, so using a wire or
real fish tape helps.

Good luck!

you can also by small cameras or rent them to look into cavities,
useful for lots of stuff like wonder whats leaking.

sometimes a picture is wort a 1000 words or plumb bob drops

I had tried to use a string with various weighted objects attached
including a plumb bob, but they are very clumsy to move around.

What I have done a couple of times already is tie a small nut (3/8") to the
end of a string line. It fits through small holes, and offers just enough
weight to pull the string down. I slowly let the string drop, jiggling it
up and down a few times, or swinging it side to side, if it gets stuck on a
blob of plaster or something, until it reaches the bottom. It doesn't have
to line up with the hole below, just get fairly close. I then take a piece
of wire with a little hook bent into the end, to reach up through the
bottom hole and fish around in the wall to catch the string. Once I have
the string out, I can tape it to the actual electrical cable and pull it up
through the wall.

It works fine as long as there's no blocking in the wall.

Anthony

"HerHusband" wrote in message
...
I had tried to use a string with various weighted objects attached
including a plumb bob, but they are very clumsy to move around.

What I have done a couple of times already is tie a small nut (3/8") to
the
end of a string line. It fits through small holes, and offers just enough
weight to pull the string down. I slowly let the string drop, jiggling it
up and down a few times, or swinging it side to side, if it gets stuck on
a
blob of plaster or something, until it reaches the bottom. It doesn't have
to line up with the hole below, just get fairly close. I then take a piece
of wire with a little hook bent into the end, to reach up through the
bottom hole and fish around in the wall to catch the string. Once I have
the string out, I can tape it to the actual electrical cable and pull it
up
through the wall.

It works fine as long as there's no blocking in the wall.

Anthony
Other things that sometimes work good in the walls are bead chain (like used
on sink stoppers) and sash chain. These are very flexible and will pile up
and spill down thru holes when shaken. They are also very easy to snag with
a hooked wire. I also found that a folded over and twisted piece of heavy
solder tied to a light string could be jiggled around and made to fall thru
small holes. A cotton ball on a thread with a powerful shop vacuum will
sometimes do wonders. A long drill bit, preferably flexible, one person
above with string, chain, and wire, and another below with stiff and
flexible wire hooks can connect and pull a wire nearly anywhere. Did it many
times for many years.

Don Young

On Sat, 27 May 2006 11:48:43 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

You could find wind bracing in the walls, which are criss crosses, and they
make snaking really tough. You don't say how many floors are involved, but
if it's just one, you can easily run lines inside a closet from basement to
attic. If it's two floors and you find two closets, one on top of another,
you can go through both. Also you may find a cast iron stack pipe in the
attic, which often has enough space around it to drop lines from attic to
basement. If all else fails, run a conduit outside the house


You may also find, if the house is post-and-beam, heavy timbers that
you don't especially want to put holes in.

If you're re-wiring, wouldn't this be a good time to re-insulate as
well? If you're going to be doing both anywhere near the same
time period, you're better off just opening the walls.

You may also find, if the house is post-and-beam, heavy timbers that
you don't especially want to put holes in.

In our case, the house is standard platform construction; studs, joists,
and rafters.

If you're re-wiring, wouldn't this be a good time to re-insulate as
well?

My in-laws house needs a LOT of improvements, including insulating, a
complete gutting and rebuilding of the rotten bathroom, etc. But they both
have serious health issues and are living on a fixed income. So we're
working off of very limited funds they've saved up over the years, and what
little we can afford to contribute ourselves. Their home insurance is sky
high because the electrical wiring was a fire waiting to happen and they
heat with space heaters. So I'm replacing the wiring and adding in some
permanent wall heaters.

As it is, I just had to replace 90% of the plumbing for what started as a
leaky faucet. You know "while you're here, can you take a look at our
faucet...". They had an old wall mount faucet in their kitchen that was
leaking around the stem. Turned out to be a rusted and broken spout. I
couldn't find a new spout, but I did track down a replacement faucet. Of
course, when I tried to remove the faucet, the rusted pipes broke instead.
When I tried to replace the broken pipe, another section farther down the
line broke. It continued to escalate till I was halfway through the house!
So I just replaced the majority of the plumbing with new pipe, and
installed a new sink with a standard deck mount faucet.

Anyway, the moral of this story is to avoid the "might as well" syndrome.
It has a way of quickly spiraling out of control around that place!

Anthony

Eww, and I thought our knob and tube wiring on the INSIDE was bad
enough!

Lots of good advice already. We're almost done doing our 80 year old
house without opening any walls, so I'll add a few things we've
learned:

- Find your main vent stack. If your house is like ours, you may well
have a TON of space around it to run wires through. We tried several
other approaches to getting wires from the basement to the attic
(through two stories) before wising up to this one.

- Cutting into baseboards is often easier than cutting lath and
plaster. (Even when those baseboards are OAK!) Our lath and plaster
doesn't come down much below the top of the baseboards.

- Pulling baseboards and/or crown moulding off, running wire, and
reassembling is relatively easy. You will spend a bit of time with
putty and paint after you put the trim back, but it's much easier than
patching lath and plaster. (Pulling down the crown moulding allowed us
to wire the ceiling lights on the first floor without using surface
conduit or making huge holes.)

- We got very little use out of the long flexible drill bits, but tons
of use out of the 18 inch (or longer) -rigid- drill bit extenders.
Those are great, since you can swap out bits as they get dull, and you
can use a couple of them together while working in tight spaces where a
longer extender wouldn't fit at all. Most of our interior walls had
firestops at about 5 feet from the floor.

- Fish tape is ok, but fish sticks are better unless you need to take a
bend. Either may get stuck on the keying inside lath and plaster
walls, but fish tape is especially evil in this regard. I understand
it's great in conduit, but we did very little conduit.

- Pull with gravity when possible. (Pull from attic from outlet box,
not from outlet box to attic.) Pull with a partner whenever possible.
One person pushes the line into the space you're pulling through, the
other person pulls out at the end, keeping light tension on the line at
all times, to prevent getting hung up on lath and plaster keys.

- Dental floss with a small weight (like a nut) on the end works better
than fish tape as long as you're working with gravity.

- We also used about 15 feet of flexible, skinny chain. You can drop
it down from the attic and as long as some of it hits the hole in the
mid-wall brace you've just drilled, it will fall through to the outlet
hole.

- If your chain sticks to a magnet, you can attempt to catch it with a
small but powerful magnet connected to a fish stick. This worked much
better for us than trying to get two fish tapes to hook, but sometimes
it just didn't work at all, if there were nails, etc in the space we
were trying to fish through.

- If you've already got knob and tube running through your joists,
consider using those holes (after removing the porcelain inserts) to
run your wires, rather than drilling new holes and further weakening
the structure.

Hope that helps!

CAS,

Thanks for the great tips!

I thought our knob and tube wiring on the INSIDE was bad enough!

My in-laws house is a real mess when it comes to wiring. From what I can
tell the original house probably had a single 120V drop for lighting. At
some later point the house was "upgraded" to 240V to support the electric
range. Then a variety of subpanels were added over the years as additional
appliances were added. The back porch had an assortment of electrical boxes
including a large EXPOSED knife switch, a small fuse panel, and a couple of
small breaker panels. Wiring ran all over the wall in various forms
including knob and tube extensions, metal conduit, cloth covered romex, and
a piece of modern romex. A virtual museum of electrical technologies.

I posted some pictures of the old wiring on the back porch at:

www.mountain-software.com/wiring1.jpg
www.mountain-software.com/wiring2.jpg
www.mountain-software.com/wiring3.jpg

I'm happy to say this mess is all gone now that I have the new service
installed.

The knob and tube wiring on the side of the house was the real surprise.
Comes out of the wall in the attic, runs down the side of the house, and
then back into the basement. The insulation was clearly not intended for
outdoor use, as it has mostly crumbled and fallen away. A quick check with
a meter and tracing the wires confirmed those outdoor wires carry the full
power for every outlet in the living room and bedrooms. So I still have a
fair amount of work to do before I can remove those wires from the side of
the house.

- Find your main vent stack.

Not an option. It's only 2" and on the outside of the house.

- Cutting into baseboards is often easier than cutting lath and
plaster. (Even when those baseboards are OAK!)

My thoughts exactly. Since they already have outlets in the baseboards, it
would be nice to have the new outlet locations match the old ones.

Pulling down the crown moulding

No crown moulding in their house.

- If you've already got knob and tube running through your joists,
consider using those holes (after removing the porcelain inserts) to
run your wires, rather than drilling new holes and further weakening
the structure.

The knob and tube wiring is all surface mounted along beams in the basement
and the tops of the ceiling joists in the attic. The only exception is
where wires run up through the floor to an outlet.

I'm drilling holes for the new wiring and moving everything up into the
joist bays. Though we have no plans to finish the basement ceiling, this
would allow that and gives the wiring a bit more protection.

Thanks again!

Anthony

replying to HerHusband, Doreen wrote:
unknown wrote:

Doug,
That's kind of what I was thinking. Easy to install, and basically out of
sight.
Inside the wall is my first choice, the conduit my second, and building a
chase in the closet was my third backup plan.
Unless the first two options don't work out for some reason, I'd rather
avoid having to do any sheetrock, taping, painting, etc. I have enough
work
to do already.
By the way, my in-laws currently have one or two electrical outlets per
room mounted in the 8" high baseboard. I'm planning on adding a few more.
Are there any codes that would prevent me from locating additional outlets
in the baseboard? I'm concerned that trying to cut holes for outlets in
the
plaster/lath would turn into a big mess of crumbling plaster. Cutting
holes
in the wood baseboard would be a lot less destructive, and simplify access
from the basement.
Anthony


You should check your updated NED for the code-approved height of new
receptacles. Installing receptacles in old baseboard openings does not
meet the new floor-to-receptacle requirement. You MAY be able to get some
type of waiver but this would have to be issued by your local
municipality. I redid a 3-story, 4-unit, 120 year old property. Thank
goodness it was a balloon-framed structure. I was NOT permitted to re-use
openings in baseboards. There are ways to install boxes in plaster and
lathe so as to secure the un-keyed plaster. Best to find old studs and
purchase old work boxes from Madison electric for the install. These
plastic boxes are code-approved for drywall screws that are INSIDE the box
and easily install to studs. Wall damage is therefore minimal. This way
the box is secured on the stud and there is no worry about the Carlon
old-work box 'wings' that do not usually hold up. Wire box before
attaching to stud. Not approved for MC and MC installs are much more
difficult but safer in narrower walls or homes with a lot of rodent
activity.

--

On Saturday, July 11, 2015 at 3:44:05 PM UTC-4, Doreen wrote:

You should check your updated NED for the code-approved height of new
receptacles. Installing receptacles in old baseboard openings does not
meet the new floor-to-receptacle requirement. You MAY be able to get some


espically since this topic is super old, dating back to 2006

i hope google never sells auto drive cars, since they will try to drive on non existent roads.

they should be ashamed at how bad the truly are