I am in the middle of trying to sell the townhouse we lived in for 22
years. We've done about 6k in renovations (painting, redoing hardwood
floors, etc). We bought an unattached house 2 years ago and have been
carrying 2 mortgages, so we have very little $ for anything thing else.
The townhouse is in a complex that's 30 years old. We redid the
kitchen back in 88. All agents we interviewed it came up with from 199K
to 225K and we split the middle. However, we've only had 1 offer and
that was for 160 (finally going to 180). Our listing is up in 30 days
and we're constantly being told to update this or update that. It's in
much better shape right now than it was when we bought it AND the house
we bought is older than the townhouse. Seems people now are too lazy
to look past the superficial and see what's underneath. I can't keep
putting $ into this cause we simply don't have it. The bathrooms
haven't been upgraded, but I am going to do the lights and mirrors. No
$ for the rest.

Seems that everyone wants 2006 in a 30 year old house and they want
someone else to do it.

On 8 May 2006 07:53:12 -0700, "JD" wrote:

I am in the middle of trying to sell the townhouse we lived in for 22
years. We've done about 6k in renovations (painting, redoing hardwood
floors, etc). We bought an unattached house 2 years ago and have been
carrying 2 mortgages, so we have very little $ for anything thing else.
The townhouse is in a complex that's 30 years old. We redid the
kitchen back in 88. All agents we interviewed it came up with from 199K
to 225K and we split the middle. However, we've only had 1 offer and
that was for 160 (finally going to 180). Our listing is up in 30 days
and we're constantly being told to update this or update that. It's in
much better shape right now than it was when we bought it AND the house
we bought is older than the townhouse. Seems people now are too lazy
to look past the superficial and see what's underneath. I can't keep
putting $ into this cause we simply don't have it. The bathrooms
haven't been upgraded, but I am going to do the lights and mirrors. No
$ for the rest.

Seems that everyone wants 2006 in a 30 year old house and they want
someone else to do it.

It seems to be a buyer's market now. Our area now has tons of homes
listed and people are picky. I just sold a home and what separated it
from those nearby was that it was in move-in condition. An agent
bought it on a 1031 exchange and already had a renter lined up to move
in. The home inspection had only six minor things needing attention
and were completed in a day.

Buyers are spending most of their money buying and simply cannot save
some for upgrades, especially first time buyers.

Bottom line: you need to get the "right buyer".



Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

"JD" wrote in message
The townhouse is in a complex that's 30 years old. We redid the
kitchen back in 88.
Seems people now are too lazy
to look past the superficial and see what's underneath.

Seems that everyone wants 2006 in a 30 year old house and they want
someone else to do it.


Have others in the complex sold recently? If so, at what price? At 30
years, it should not need much more than cosmetics to look good, maybe a
kitchen or bath floor if dated looking. How about new shiny knobs and pulls
on the cabinets?

Have you watched any of the cable TV shows like "Sell This House"? They
give some good ideas on what looks good and what is a turn off to buyers.
For minimal money, ($250 to $1000) the take a dead listing and get it sold
quickly.

Yes, lots of unimaginative and lazy people that have no clue what to do with
a solid home themselves.

With Condos/townhouses it's easy to determine the market price. You
should have other virtually identical units that have actually sold.
If they have sold for 199-225K, and yours is priced in the middle and
you haven't even had any serious offers, something is wrong. I'd find
out immediately what similar units are selling for. If it's priced
correctly, then I'd get a new real estate agent when the listing
expires.

Ours is the only unit for sale of about 90 units. Most residents have
been there for awhile. I can easily change the pulls on the drawers in
the kitchen. Will go look for new ones for that. Kitchen was totally
redesigned in 88 to do away with a lot of dead space that the original
had. We added a 250 sq. ft deck in 99. Granted, we haven't upgraded
the bathrooms (everything is still original there) but had intended to
had we not bought an unattached house in 2004. We don't have the $ now
to do anything else major than we've already done. I'm so tired of all
of this.

As for the price, we interviewed 4 agents. Gave us a range of 199 to
225; we split the middle. However, agent isn't marketing right and
we've dropped the price 3x already. At least the listing is up in 30
days and we're going to change agents to a more agressive one.

It also doesn't help that our association fee is considered high. 1st
time buyers automatically think it includes utilities (it doesn't). But
after getting the breakdown/unit, it's actually reasonable for a 30
year old with solid wood siding and cedar shake shingles. Yeah, it's
not fancy, and yes, there's some work to do IF you want to upgrade it,
but jeez! I can't afford this anymore.

On Mon 08 May 2006 09:15:13a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it JD?

Ours is the only unit for sale of about 90 units. Most residents have
been there for awhile. I can easily change the pulls on the drawers in
the kitchen. Will go look for new ones for that. Kitchen was totally
redesigned in 88 to do away with a lot of dead space that the original
had. We added a 250 sq. ft deck in 99. Granted, we haven't upgraded
the bathrooms (everything is still original there) but had intended to
had we not bought an unattached house in 2004. We don't have the $ now
to do anything else major than we've already done. I'm so tired of all
of this.

As for the price, we interviewed 4 agents. Gave us a range of 199 to
225; we split the middle. However, agent isn't marketing right and
we've dropped the price 3x already. At least the listing is up in 30
days and we're going to change agents to a more agressive one.

It also doesn't help that our association fee is considered high. 1st
time buyers automatically think it includes utilities (it doesn't). But
after getting the breakdown/unit, it's actually reasonable for a 30
year old with solid wood siding and cedar shake shingles. Yeah, it's
not fancy, and yes, there's some work to do IF you want to upgrade it,
but jeez! I can't afford this anymore.


Given all that you either can't or won't do, you should be prepared to sell
it for what you can get.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

Being the only unit for sale should work in your favor if the development is
a desirable one. Anyone wanting to move to that development should see you
as their only option.

Is your development more upscale than the area around it? How is the market
and economy in your town generally? These are factors that would also affect
moving your townhouse.

Jon

"JD" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ours is the only unit for sale of about 90 units. Most residents have
been there for awhile. I can easily change the pulls on the drawers in
the kitchen. Will go look for new ones for that. Kitchen was totally
redesigned in 88 to do away with a lot of dead space that the original
had. We added a 250 sq. ft deck in 99. Granted, we haven't upgraded
the bathrooms (everything is still original there) but had intended to
had we not bought an unattached house in 2004. We don't have the $ now
to do anything else major than we've already done. I'm so tired of all
of this.

As for the price, we interviewed 4 agents. Gave us a range of 199 to
225; we split the middle. However, agent isn't marketing right and
we've dropped the price 3x already. At least the listing is up in 30
days and we're going to change agents to a more agressive one.

It also doesn't help that our association fee is considered high. 1st
time buyers automatically think it includes utilities (it doesn't). But
after getting the breakdown/unit, it's actually reasonable for a 30
year old with solid wood siding and cedar shake shingles. Yeah, it's
not fancy, and yes, there's some work to do IF you want to upgrade it,
but jeez! I can't afford this anymore.

On 8 May 2006 18:22:29 +0200, Wayne Boatwright
wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com wrote:

Given all that you either can't or won't do, you should be prepared to sell
it for what you can get.

If his agent would market it he could at least get some offer. He may
need to give some incentive to the new agent ($$). Do the obvious
cosmetic things mentioned earlier, reduce clutter and have an open
house.

Give up the money now, take all tax advantages later, but get out.

Oren

"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

It's not upscale; more mid to upper mid. GOOD school area, too.
However, there's apparently a glut of new townhomes, selling for more
but less square footage, and less fees. None of the townhomes in this
complex ever faced a problem with selling. But as the 2nd agent told
me, buyers today, particularly younger ones, don't want to have to do
anything and want everything. We're just having to draw a line cause
we can't do 10K upgrades to kitchen or bathrooms. We don't have that
kind of $.

Zeppo wrote:
Being the only unit for sale should work in your favor if the development is
a desirable one. Anyone wanting to move to that development should see you
as their only option.

Is your development more upscale than the area around it? How is the market
and economy in your town generally? These are factors that would also affect
moving your townhouse.

Jon

"JD" wrote in message
oups.com...
Ours is the only unit for sale of about 90 units. Most residents have
been there for awhile. I can easily change the pulls on the drawers in
the kitchen. Will go look for new ones for that. Kitchen was totally
redesigned in 88 to do away with a lot of dead space that the original
had. We added a 250 sq. ft deck in 99. Granted, we haven't upgraded
the bathrooms (everything is still original there) but had intended to
had we not bought an unattached house in 2004. We don't have the $ now
to do anything else major than we've already done. I'm so tired of all
of this.

As for the price, we interviewed 4 agents. Gave us a range of 199 to
225; we split the middle. However, agent isn't marketing right and
we've dropped the price 3x already. At least the listing is up in 30
days and we're going to change agents to a more agressive one.

It also doesn't help that our association fee is considered high. 1st
time buyers automatically think it includes utilities (it doesn't). But
after getting the breakdown/unit, it's actually reasonable for a 30
year old with solid wood siding and cedar shake shingles. Yeah, it's
not fancy, and yes, there's some work to do IF you want to upgrade it,
but jeez! I can't afford this anymore.

As a recent first-time buyer, here's my opinion:

You have very little $ for changes because you are paying on 2
mortgages -- not my problem. Either your house is equivalent to others
I'm looking at in the same price range or it's not. If it's not, it
doesn't matter to me why not.

You're "constantly being told to update this or update that." Maybe
this and that need to be updated for you to get the price you're hoping
for. If you're constantly being told that, there's probably a grain of
truth in there, whether or not you and your wallet want to hear it.

People are "too lazy to look past the superficial and see what's
underneath." Hey, I'm saving up to buy a house -- I don't have extra $
to pretty it up, either. Odds are also very good that I'm looking at a
townhouse because I don't have the desire to do a lot of maintenance
myself. Am I lazy? Or just inexperienced? Or working two jobs?
Or...?

Superficial is what's going to attract me initially and even get me to
look at what's underneath. I have to live with the way it looks
starting the day I move in. If I can see that despite being a sound,
well-built home, it's going to need another $10,000 to look nice, I'm
going to go look at houses that are priced at $10,000 more and have
already had the work done.

People are going to try to get the most house for the money, and
whether you like it or not, that includes getting the most UPDATED
house for the money. If yours is not competitive with whatever else I
can look at in the price range, you really have only two choices: Make
the changes so your house competes, or put it into a different (lower)
price range so I'm comparing it with a different (cheaper) group of
houses.

Jo Ann

As a 2x buyer (the last one being 2 years ago), I wouldn't have even
dreamed of demanding upgrades. Things like a leaky toilet or cracked
glass or broken seal in double thermal pane windows, ok. But new
stove, new carpeting? My taste may well not be yours.

Yes, we all try to get the most value for the least amount of money.
But when you buy a 30 year old house, you should realistically not
expect it to be the same as one that's just been built.

I can only do so much.


wrote:
As a recent first-time buyer, here's my opinion:

You have very little $ for changes because you are paying on 2
mortgages -- not my problem. Either your house is equivalent to others
I'm looking at in the same price range or it's not. If it's not, it
doesn't matter to me why not.

You're "constantly being told to update this or update that." Maybe
this and that need to be updated for you to get the price you're hoping
for. If you're constantly being told that, there's probably a grain of
truth in there, whether or not you and your wallet want to hear it.

People are "too lazy to look past the superficial and see what's
underneath." Hey, I'm saving up to buy a house -- I don't have extra $
to pretty it up, either. Odds are also very good that I'm looking at a
townhouse because I don't have the desire to do a lot of maintenance
myself. Am I lazy? Or just inexperienced? Or working two jobs?
Or...?

Superficial is what's going to attract me initially and even get me to
look at what's underneath. I have to live with the way it looks
starting the day I move in. If I can see that despite being a sound,
well-built home, it's going to need another $10,000 to look nice, I'm
going to go look at houses that are priced at $10,000 more and have
already had the work done.

People are going to try to get the most house for the money, and
whether you like it or not, that includes getting the most UPDATED
house for the money. If yours is not competitive with whatever else I
can look at in the price range, you really have only two choices: Make
the changes so your house competes, or put it into a different (lower)
price range so I'm comparing it with a different (cheaper) group of
houses.

Jo Ann

JD wrote:

It's not upscale; more mid to upper mid. GOOD school area, too.
However, there's apparently a glut of new townhomes, selling for more
but less square footage, and less fees. None of the townhomes in this
complex ever faced a problem with selling. But as the 2nd agent told
me, buyers today, particularly younger ones, don't want to have to do
anything and want everything. We're just having to draw a line cause
we can't do 10K upgrades to kitchen or bathrooms. We don't have that
kind of $.

Here's the reality: there's a nationwide housing glut. 40% of the
homes sold last year went to speculators and folks buying vacation
homes. The speculators have run out of suckers to re-sell those homes
to, and builders caught in the middles of this market flux have no
choice but to continue building the homes they've begun, adding to the
glut. Add in all the folks in the next couple years who will no longer
be able to afford their mortgage payments once their ARMS adjust and
will thus be forced to sell. Prices have finally reached a point where
most people can't afford to buy unless they take out a suicide
mortgage, and more and more folks are disinclined to do that. As a
result, sales have dropped substantially while buyers are waiting for
housing prices to drop. They can afford to wait because of the
rapidly-growing inventory of homes for sale.

Therefo if you want to sell your home, price it to move. Cut that
price substantially. If you bought it 22 years ago you can afford to
sell it for far less than current comps. Because current home buyers
are looking at the comps and saying, "Nah....I'll wait for it get
cheaper." You want to move it _now_, you have to cut the price _now_.

Those of us who lived through the housing bubble of the 80s are
familiar with this cycle. We'll see home prices drop across most of
the US over the next several years, before they finally plateau and
start rising again.

This isn't a good time to sell or buy. Sellers are having a hard time
finding buyers. Buyers are prudently waiting for prices to fall
further yet.

HellT

On 8 May 2006 10:44:52 -0700, "JD" wrote:

As a 2x buyer (the last one being 2 years ago), I wouldn't have even
dreamed of demanding upgrades. Things like a leaky toilet or cracked
glass or broken seal in double thermal pane windows, ok. But new
stove, new carpeting? My taste may well not be yours.

In my area 2 years ago it was a sellers market. I sold one in two
hours with multiple offers. Of course I accepted the buyer with cash.
He didn't demand anything, but there were no cracks/broken anything.
You seem to think people are demanding things from you personally.
They don't. Buyers are in a pinch with money to get in and have a
reasonable expectation to not have to fix a bunch of things.

After 22 years in the house....buyers think you are making a killing
on equity without knowing your finances.

Yes, we all try to get the most value for the least amount of money.
But when you buy a 30 year old house, you should realistically not
expect it to be the same as one that's just been built.

I would expect it to be pleasurable, clean, comfortable and not
needing any major structural work.

I would expect you to consider my offer and that you escrow 10K for me
to have the work done.

Some first time buyers will never by a 30 year old home if a newer one
is just blocks away.

I can only do so much.

Defeatism......


Oren


"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

While it is correct that a buyer's taste may differ from yours, an
outdated stove or worn-out carpeting are flaws, no matter how you look
at it. A cash-strapped buyer isn't thinking about whether his taste in
carpet differs from yours; he's thinking about having to live with
whatever carpeting is there until he gets some money. That being the
case, odds are good he would rather live with new carpet that's not
quite to his taste than with old carpet. Same for the stove -- all
things being equal, most buyers would rather have a nice stove right
off the bat than an outdated one.

Outdated appliances and worn-out carpet also cause the potential buyer
to question whether other, more important things may also have been
allowed to wear out or become out of date, such as electrical and
heating systems. Obviously, this can be revealed in a home inspection
-- but we're never going to get to an inspection unless you have made
your house appeal to me enough to put in an offer in the first place.

Again, all other things being equal, the buyer is looking for the most
house for the money, and this includes how the house looks.

Jo Ann

Yeah, but we were told by one agent to remove new carpet that put in 4
years ago.

All appliances work fine, but granted don't 'look' new. I simply
cannot see the necessity of taking out something that works perfectly
fine to put something newer in. That's wasteful, imho. I was always
taught to replace something ONLY when you needed to.

We put in a complete new heat/ac system 3 years ago. The kitchen was
redesigned back in 88 to maximize use of space in a small kitchen.
There was a LOT of dead space prior to that and we lived with it for 6
years before redoing it.

Yes, I fully understand looking for the most house for the $. However,
I do have to be honest and say, even as a buyer myself, there are
somethings that I do have to question and would never expect as a
buyer. Maybe that's me, but as I said, we only have so much $ and I
can only do so much here with what I have. If I have to offer $
incentives for decorating, so be it.

In article . com,
says...

While it is correct that a buyer's taste may differ from yours, an
outdated stove or worn-out carpeting are flaws, no matter how you look
at it. A cash-strapped buyer isn't thinking about whether his taste in
carpet differs from yours; he's thinking about having to live with
whatever carpeting is there until he gets some money. That being the
case, odds are good he would rather live with new carpet that's not
quite to his taste than with old carpet. Same for the stove -- all
things being equal, most buyers would rather have a nice stove right
off the bat than an outdated one.

Outdated appliances and worn-out carpet also cause the potential buyer
to question whether other, more important things may also have been
allowed to wear out or become out of date, such as electrical and
heating systems. Obviously, this can be revealed in a home inspection
-- but we're never going to get to an inspection unless you have made
your house appeal to me enough to put in an offer in the first place.

Again, all other things being equal, the buyer is looking for the most
house for the money, and this includes how the house looks.


Depends on the market. If it's a buyer's market full of young buyers, you get
more of that. IF it's more a balanced or a seller's market, no so much. If you
tend to have middle-aged buyers, by then they're as happy with old carpeting as
with some cheap new ivory-colored pile because they know they're going to
replace it anyway.

Even in a buyer's market, as a first time buyer I bought old but perfectly
functional appliances with my home. Replaced them over time as they reached end
of life.

So it depends, depends, depends. And there are tradeoffs and tradeoffs.

It's a perfectly viable choice to sell as-is, possibly taking a lower price in a
buyer's market, and considering covering old appliances with a homeower's
warranty to offer the buyer. Depends on how much the seller values the agita
and time he'd have to put into upgrading.

Some realtors would rather only show what shows well, maybe another realtor is
what's needed here.

Banty


--

0On 8 May 2006 11:32:17 -0700, "JD" wrote:

Re; the townhouse, we've taken out old wallpaper, painted, fixed
plumbing, redone floors. We took a tree in the roof during Gaston and
the insurance fixed all of that, so in a strange way, it was a silver
lining 'cause it helped with some of the repairs we were going to have
to do anyway. But things finally get to wear on a person and we only
have so much budgeted for this. We're leaving the townhouse is way
better shape than it was when we bought it 24 years ago (lived in it
for 22 of those years).

You still have emotions involved in this home since you lived there
many years. I bet your spouse is already past the emotions and
thinking current home.

Way better shape, compared to what?

After 22 years in the house....buyers think you are making a killing
on equity without knowing your finances.

Yes, we all try to get the most value for the least amount of money.
But when you buy a 30 year old house, you should realistically not
expect it to be the same as one that's just been built.

I would expect it to be pleasurable, clean, comfortable and not
needing any major structural work.

And that's what I'm trying to do. I can't do anything the outside
because that comes under the purview of the Association. The building
has natural wood and they paint it. They have to say yea/nay door
color, windows, etc.

But your concerns are inside and a buyer will have the exact same
concern.

I would expect you to consider my offer and that you escrow 10K for me
to have the work done.

I have no problem with that at all. I think my biggest thing in all of
this is that there is no way I can do 2006 here.

2006 prices are what hurt. Speak to any new agent and discuss
alternatives for an allowance to fix/upgrade. Get some local written
estimates as if you were going to make the house changes. Consider
that price when you look at the offer(s).

I can only do so much.

Defeatism......


No, I feel like it's finally come down to the fact that we only have so
much and we're maxed out and tired.

You are now disengaging your emotions and soon you will feel the
relief. Think about the taxes "you don't have to pay" to Uncle Sam,
since you lived in the place 2 of the last 5 years.

I know the feeling....I've owned seven homes, but I'm up for another
challenge.


Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

The fact that this is the only unit in 90 that is currently for sale is
a definite plus. What amazes me is that you don't seem to have any
reference points for other units that SOLD. It seems likely that in
the last 12-18 mths there would be a few that did sell. Did you ask
these 3 realtors for comps? They should have sat down with you and
showed you the actual sales of units either in your complex or similar
complexes that actually did sell and for how much. That's the only
way anyone can come up with a fair price for yours. The fact that you
have had no legitimate offers means that either it's priced too high,
the realtor is doing a poor job, or both. Is this a full price
commission realtor? What's the % commission? Another factor is if
the similar units that sold for $210K had much newer kitchens,
appliances, tile/hardwood floors, etc, then you can't expect to get the
same price for yours. A kitchen from 1988 could still be functionally
fine, but it is 18 years old and depending on the style could look
dated by now compared to other kitchens.

In article .com, JD says...

Yeah, but we were told by one agent to remove new carpet that put in 4
years ago.

All appliances work fine, but granted don't 'look' new. I simply
cannot see the necessity of taking out something that works perfectly
fine to put something newer in. That's wasteful, imho. I was always
taught to replace something ONLY when you needed to.

We put in a complete new heat/ac system 3 years ago. The kitchen was
redesigned back in 88 to maximize use of space in a small kitchen.
There was a LOT of dead space prior to that and we lived with it for 6
years before redoing it.

Yes, I fully understand looking for the most house for the $. However,
I do have to be honest and say, even as a buyer myself, there are
somethings that I do have to question and would never expect as a
buyer. Maybe that's me, but as I said, we only have so much $ and I
can only do so much here with what I have. If I have to offer $
incentives for decorating, so be it.


If I were you, I'd just choose a realtor who is happy to show your place as-is
just cleaned up.

Go to some open houses yourself and get more of a feel for what condition places
are showing in.

I dont' exactly know your market, of course, but a kitchen dating from late '80s
and 4 year old carpet should be just fine.

Folks who would have you watch "Designed to Sell" should also have you watch
"Buy Me" to see what some plain old fasioned waiting for the right buyer and
patience gets folks.

Banty


--

Your being willing to live with things, e.g., a kitchen with unusable
space that you lived with for six years, has nothing to do with what
things a buyer is willing to live with now. I agree that disposing of
working appliances is wasteful but, again, that has nothing to do with
whether a buyer wants new appliances. You need to let go of the idea
that what you were willing to live with has anything to do with what
potential buyers want to live with.

For example, to you it's a big deal that you updated the kitchen in
1988. Maybe you saved and planned for a long time to do it, and you
were really happy with the change. All of that is meaningless to a
buyer. They don't care that it's nicer than it used to be -- they
never had to deal with how it used to be. All they care about is
whether it compares well to their vision of what they want now. And
frankly, a 1988 kitchen with 1988 appliances does not compare very well
to most 2006 buyers' visions.

Again, you have only two choices: Give the place today's look, or else
give it yesterday's price.

Jo Ann

Oren wrote:
0On 8 May 2006 11:32:17 -0700, "JD" wrote:

Re; the townhouse, we've taken out old wallpaper, painted, fixed
plumbing, redone floors. We took a tree in the roof during Gaston and
the insurance fixed all of that, so in a strange way, it was a silver
lining 'cause it helped with some of the repairs we were going to have
to do anyway. But things finally get to wear on a person and we only
have so much budgeted for this. We're leaving the townhouse is way
better shape than it was when we bought it 24 years ago (lived in it
for 22 of those years).

You still have emotions involved in this home since you lived there
many years. I bet your spouse is already past the emotions and
thinking current home.

He just wants it over too. We're both at our wits' end because of all
of this.


Way better shape, compared to what?

LOL. Uh, well, it had heidious wallpaper in the stairwell that we
lived with for about 9 years. We replaced that and then recently took
that down and painted the whole thing. We replaced a single hanging
light with a ceiling fan with lights so airflow would be better., We
redid all hardwood floors (which weren't done when we bought it); redid
floor in the kitchen when we redid that. Replaced vanity in 1/2 bath
and replaced wallpaper there (it was a godawful green/silver/purple
foil with geometric design). We built a deck on the back and replaced
the windows when the seals have broken. Redone closets AND put in a
pulldown attic stairs to access the attic instead of having to crawl
thru a hole in the masterbedroom closet ceiling.


After 22 years in the house....buyers think you are making a killing
on equity without knowing your finances.

yeah, but we've got 2 mortgages (1st and home equity line on that
thing)

Yes, we all try to get the most value for the least amount of money.
But when you buy a 30 year old house, you should realistically not
expect it to be the same as one that's just been built.

I would expect it to be pleasurable, clean, comfortable and not
needing any major structural work.

And that's what I'm trying to do. I can't do anything the outside
because that comes under the purview of the Association. The building
has natural wood and they paint it. They have to say yea/nay door
color, windows, etc.

But your concerns are inside and a buyer will have the exact same
concern.

I would expect you to consider my offer and that you escrow 10K for me
to have the work done.

I have no problem with that at all. I think my biggest thing in all of
this is that there is no way I can do 2006 here.

2006 prices are what hurt. Speak to any new agent and discuss
alternatives for an allowance to fix/upgrade. Get some local written
estimates as if you were going to make the house changes. Consider
that price when you look at the offer(s).

That's what we're going to do. I've not been pleased with our existing
agent and have already contacted another that will possibly be ready to
go the moment the current contract expires.


I can only do so much.

Defeatism......


No, I feel like it's finally come down to the fact that we only have so
much and we're maxed out and tired.

You are now disengaging your emotions and soon you will feel the
relief. Think about the taxes "you don't have to pay" to Uncle Sam,
since you lived in the place 2 of the last 5 years.

I know the feeling....I've owned seven homes, but I'm up for another
challenge.

Not me. We lived in the townhouse for 22 years and I figure we'll be
in the current one til we die. I'm NOT moving again.

JD wrote:
I am in the middle of trying to sell the townhouse we lived in for 22
years. We've done about 6k in renovations (painting, redoing hardwood
floors, etc). We bought an unattached house 2 years ago and have been
carrying 2 mortgages, so we have very little $ for anything thing
else. The townhouse is in a complex that's 30 years old. We redid the
kitchen back in 88. All agents we interviewed it came up with from
199K to 225K and we split the middle. However, we've only had 1
offer and that was for 160 (finally going to 180). Our listing is up
in 30 days and we're constantly being told to update this or update
that. It's in much better shape right now than it was when we bought
it AND the house we bought is older than the townhouse. Seems people
now are too lazy to look past the superficial and see what's
underneath. I can't keep putting $ into this cause we simply don't
have it. The bathrooms haven't been upgraded, but I am going to do
the lights and mirrors. No $ for the rest.

Seems that everyone wants 2006 in a 30 year old house and they want
someone else to do it.

People buying are already stretching they limit. They don't have money
to invest in a home they just bought.

I suggest you start by cleaning up. If you are still living there, rent
a space and remover anything that is not absolutely necessary. If you are
not living there, remove all personal belongings. Clean and do some painting
as needed, paint goes a long way towards making a place look good, paint
neutral colors, not what you like.



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Another option to consider is renting it out. If it has a 1988
kitchen, I don't think you have to worry too much about wear and tear
from a tenant. If renting can cover your mortgage, tax, maintenance,
you could hold on to it and if all goes well, in another 10 years, it
will be worth a lot more.

I wish I could do that. However, because of our finances, we can't.
We've got to sell it and get out of it. We held on to it over a year
longer than we should have because of family illnesses and not having
the time to deal with things properly. Now we don't have that option.

Besides, I wouldn't want to be a landlord. I just want to get this
over with so I can concentrate on our house. I'm tired of being split
between 2 places and never seeming to get anything done.

wrote:
Another option to consider is renting it out. If it has a 1988
kitchen, I don't think you have to worry too much about wear and tear
from a tenant. If renting can cover your mortgage, tax, maintenance,
you could hold on to it and if all goes well, in another 10 years, it
will be worth a lot more.

On 8 May 2006 12:44:01 -0700, "JD" wrote:

You still have emotions involved in this home since you lived there
many years. I bet your spouse is already past the emotions and
thinking current home.

He just wants it over too. We're both at our wits' end because of all
of this.

So you, presuming are the emotional one. Forget what you have done
over the past 22 years, and accept current upgrades are what people
look for.

Way better shape, compared to what?

LOL. Uh, well, it had heidious wallpaper in the stairwell that we
lived with for about 9 years. We replaced that and then recently took
that down and painted the whole thing. We replaced a single hanging
light with a ceiling fan with lights so airflow would be better., We
redid all hardwood floors (which weren't done when we bought it); redid
floor in the kitchen when we redid that. Replaced vanity in 1/2 bath
and replaced wallpaper there (it was a godawful green/silver/purple
foil with geometric design). We built a deck on the back and replaced
the windows when the seals have broken. Redone closets AND put in a
pulldown attic stairs to access the attic instead of having to crawl
thru a hole in the masterbedroom closet ceiling.

So you do things for yourself; but can be less willing to do things
for a potential sell. Actually nobody cares why you pulled or painted
or did this and that/

After 22 years in the house....buyers think you are making a killing
on equity without knowing your finances.

yeah, but we've got 2 mortgages (1st and home equity line on that
thing)

And your point is?

I would expect it to be pleasurable, clean, comfortable and not
needing any major structural work.

And that's what I'm trying to do. I can't do anything the outside
because that comes under the purview of the Association. The building
has natural wood and they paint it. They have to say yea/nay door
color, windows, etc.

Clean the entrance, next item.....


I would expect you to consider my offer and that you escrow 10K for me
to have the work done.

I have no problem with that at all. I think my biggest thing in all of
this is that there is no way I can do 2006 here.

Forget 2006, are you brain dead? Concede, give up money now, sell the
house and be done with it.

2006 prices are what hurt. Speak to any new agent and discuss
alternatives for an allowance to fix/upgrade. Get some local written
estimates as if you were going to make the house changes. Consider
that price when you look at the offer(s).

That's what we're going to do. I've not been pleased with our existing
agent and have already contacted another that will possibly be ready to
go the moment the current contract expires.

Try a neraby town and get an outside agent opinion if necessary.


Not me. We lived in the townhouse for 22 years and I figure we'll be
in the current one til we die. I'm NOT moving again.

You might move if the home hits you right.


Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

On 8 May 2006 13:32:29 -0700, wrote:

Another option to consider is renting it out. If it has a 1988
kitchen, I don't think you have to worry too much about wear and tear
from a tenant. If renting can cover your mortgage, tax, maintenance,
you could hold on to it and if all goes well, in another 10 years, it
will be worth a lot more.



Wasn't many months ago (locally) that taxes increased with the
increase in property values.

Our market is moving sideways, no loss but modest gains.

Oren
"My doctor says I have a malformed public-duty gland
and a natural deficiency in moral fiber, and that I am therefore
excused from saving Universes."

"Wayne Boatwright" wayneboatwright_at_gmail.com wrote in message
28.19...
On Mon 08 May 2006 09:15:13a, Thus Spake Zarathustra, or was it JD?

Ours is the only unit for sale of about 90 units. Most residents have
been there for awhile. I can easily change the pulls on the drawers in
the kitchen. Will go look for new ones for that. Kitchen was totally
redesigned in 88 to do away with a lot of dead space that the original
had. We added a 250 sq. ft deck in 99. Granted, we haven't upgraded
the bathrooms (everything is still original there) but had intended to
had we not bought an unattached house in 2004. We don't have the $ now
to do anything else major than we've already done. I'm so tired of all
of this.

As for the price, we interviewed 4 agents. Gave us a range of 199 to
225; we split the middle. However, agent isn't marketing right and
we've dropped the price 3x already. At least the listing is up in 30
days and we're going to change agents to a more agressive one.

It also doesn't help that our association fee is considered high. 1st
time buyers automatically think it includes utilities (it doesn't). But
after getting the breakdown/unit, it's actually reasonable for a 30
year old with solid wood siding and cedar shake shingles. Yeah, it's
not fancy, and yes, there's some work to do IF you want to upgrade it,
but jeez! I can't afford this anymore.


Given all that you either can't or won't do, you should be prepared to
sell
it for what you can get.

--
Wayne Boatwright Õ¿Õ¬
________________________________________

Okay, okay, I take it back! UnScrew you!

I agree. And you've got to recognize that agents, in trying to get you to
list with them, will typically suggest that they can sell the property for a
bit more than the actual market will bear.

SJF

JD wrote:

I am in the middle of trying to sell the townhouse we lived in for 22
years. We've done about 6k in renovations (painting, redoing hardwood
floors, etc). We bought an unattached house 2 years ago and have been
carrying 2 mortgages, so we have very little $ for anything thing else.
The townhouse is in a complex that's 30 years old. We redid the
kitchen back in 88. All agents we interviewed it came up with from 199K
to 225K and we split the middle. However, we've only had 1 offer and
that was for 160 (finally going to 180). Our listing is up in 30 days
and we're constantly being told to update this or update that. It's in
much better shape right now than it was when we bought it AND the house
we bought is older than the townhouse. Seems people now are too lazy
to look past the superficial and see what's underneath. I can't keep
putting $ into this cause we simply don't have it. The bathrooms
haven't been upgraded, but I am going to do the lights and mirrors. No
$ for the rest.

Seems that everyone wants 2006 in a 30 year old house and they want
someone else to do it.


What is the market like in general? Community in good shape? Lots of
for sale signs? May be rebound of hot market cooling, which is
happening a little bit here in FL - property on water still selling for
just about any price asked )

JD wrote:

It's not upscale; more mid to upper mid. GOOD school area, too.
However, there's apparently a glut of new townhomes, selling for more
but less square footage, and less fees. None of the townhomes in this
complex ever faced a problem with selling. But as the 2nd agent told
me, buyers today, particularly younger ones, don't want to have to do
anything and want everything. We're just having to draw a line cause
we can't do 10K upgrades to kitchen or bathrooms. We don't have that
kind of $.


I'm afraid it's not your option where to draw the line with the current
buyers market, the buyers are telling you where they're drawing the
line. It's only going to get worse as well so your best course would be
to take the best offer you can get presuming it covers any remaining
mortgage on the place and be happy to be done with it before you loose
even more money.

If you were counting on the proceeds from the sale of the townhouse
paying off the mortgage on the other place based on the inflated sales
prices of the last few years that was a mistake and you missed the best
time to sell. The longer you wait for the perfect offer that isn't going
to come the more dated the unit becomes, the more the market declines
and the less you're going to get when you finally do sell.

A bit of superficial stuff like cabinet hardware and perhaps a faucet
might help interest buyers. Even an older stove can be dressed up with
new drip pans, trim rings and elements for little money if the basic
unit is sound. Remember you are dressing a set.

If the stove is beat to death and all the enamel is chipped it doesn't
matter one bit to the buyer if it's still perfectly functional. The
buyer is spending a lot of money on the home and expects everything to
be in decent shape. You wouldn't expect a car with a worn out interior
and paint to sell for as much as the same model in good shape,
regardless if the engine and drive train of both were in perfect
condition.

Pete C.

But as the 2nd agent told
me, buyers today, particularly younger ones, don't want to have to do
anything and want everything.

This is what ALL buyers want -- young or otherwise. Surely you are not
expecting to find a buyer who wants to do everything and doesn't want
anything! However, buyers any age are likely to compromise and do
repairs and decorating if the sale price is right. Other things being
equal, no one in their right mind is deliberately going to choose the
one that looks shabby for the same price as the one that looks nice.

Jo Ann

"JD" wrote in message
oups.com...
I wish I could do that. However, because of our finances, we can't.
We've got to sell it and get out of it. We held on to it over a year
longer than we should have because of family illnesses and not having
the time to deal with things properly. Now we don't have that option.

Forget what the realtors told you. What did you pay for the property? Are
you selling it for more than you paid? If yes, take the offer. Any profit
or loss from their suggested price is just a paper thing, not hard cash.
Houses sell for what people are willing to pay. Houses that don't sell in a
reasonable time are usually overpriced. See what some cosmetics do, but be
prepared to take less than the present asking price.

Be VERY careful if you will have a gain. You MUST have used the home
being sold as your primary residences for 2 of the last 3 years, or you
will pay capital gains tax.....

consulte a tax pro for details

Why did you buy another house before selling townhouse? Prices are
dropping so take what you can get

it was actually a fluke. We had been thinking about getting a bigger
house because we needed the space. For years, we couldn't justify
leaving the townhouse for an unattached with less square footage and
more $. Finally, by accident, we saw this house, visited it, and
bought it. It's older than the townhouse BUT had more room. We used
the inheirtance to pay for the new house and get a reasonable mortgage.
Unfortuantely, over the last 2 years, illness and other things have
prevented from getting all the stuff out of the townhouse until the
last 6 months. We have a friend who's renting it on a month to month
basis at a reduced rate to defray some of the expense AND he's been
helping us pack up the rest of the stuff.

We should have gotten rid of the house when we moved out but
circumstances prevented it. We're doing the best we can and will lower
the price. Thing is, as I said before, all the realtors we interviewed
were within the same price range. Had they told us this in the
beginning, we could have been more prepared for that. However, I can't
do anything about that now. I just have to deal with what is and say
enough is enough...I can't do any more than this.

wrote:
Why did you buy another house before selling townhouse? Prices are
dropping so take what you can get

wrote in message
ups.com...
Be VERY careful if you will have a gain. You MUST have used the home
being sold as your primary residences for 2 of the last 3 years, or you
will pay capital gains tax.....

consulte a tax pro for details

Also ask about renting it out. There are all kinds of tax breaks that you
can't even imagine. The numbers are not just monthly payments vs rental
income. Right now you're basically a landlord without a tenant, so get some
rental income! Good luck.

S

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"JD" wrote in message
oups.com...
I wish I could do that. However, because of our finances, we can't.
We've got to sell it and get out of it. We held on to it over a year
longer than we should have because of family illnesses and not having
the time to deal with things properly. Now we don't have that option.

Forget what the realtors told you. What did you pay for the property? Are
you selling it for more than you paid? If yes, take the offer.


Now this is some real bad advice. What they paid for it decades ago
has no bearing on what a fair price for it is now. If I came over and
offered you $100 more than you paid for your house 20 years ago, would
you sell it? If their real estate agent has done a bad job marketing
it and no fair offers have been forthcoming, doesn't mean they should
give it away.

What they need to look at is sales in the last year of similar
properties. And that is what's missing in this whole thread. They
live in a complex of 90 units. There has been zippo said about what
other units in the recent past have SOLD for. When I brought this up
before, the answer was none are for sale now. They need to find out
when units were sold and for how much. First for this complex, then
for any similar complexs in the area. This ain't rocket science.





Any profit
or loss from their suggested price is just a paper thing, not hard cash.
Houses sell for what people are willing to pay. Houses that don't sell in a
reasonable time are usually overpriced. See what some cosmetics do, but be
prepared to take less than the present asking price.

mrsgator88 wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
Be VERY careful if you will have a gain. You MUST have used the home
being sold as your primary residences for 2 of the last 3 years, or you
will pay capital gains tax.....

consulte a tax pro for details

Also ask about renting it out. There are all kinds of tax breaks that you
can't even imagine. The numbers are not just monthly payments vs rental
income. Right now you're basically a landlord without a tenant, so get some
rental income! Good luck.

S


I agree with hallerb regarding the tax issue and hereby retract my
rental suggestion. They bought this place decades ago, so it's just
about 100% that they have a substantial capital gain. So, they do need
to have occupied it as their principal residence for 2 years to avoid
the capital gains tax. They qualify for that now, but would lose that
by making it a rental.

In article . com, " wrote:
Be VERY careful if you will have a gain. You MUST have used the home
being sold as your primary residences for 2 of the last 3 years, or you
will pay capital gains tax.....

Try again... that's two out of the last *five* years...

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

I rented a home for 7 years and kinda enjoyed it. Blessed with a great
lady and her family. We became close friends.

If she hadnt of died no doubt I would still be renting it.

Renting has tons of advantages, but if it still qualifies as your
primary residence sell.... to save taxes.

JD wrote:
I am in the middle of trying to sell the townhouse we lived in for 22
years. We've done about 6k in renovations (painting, redoing hardwood
floors, etc). We bought an unattached house 2 years ago and have been
carrying 2 mortgages, so we have very little $ for anything thing else.
The townhouse is in a complex that's 30 years old. We redid the
kitchen back in 88. All agents we interviewed it came up with from 199K
to 225K and we split the middle. However, we've only had 1 offer and
that was for 160 (finally going to 180). Our listing is up in 30 days
and we're constantly being told to update this or update that. It's in
much better shape right now than it was when we bought it AND the house
we bought is older than the townhouse. Seems people now are too lazy
to look past the superficial and see what's underneath. I can't keep
putting $ into this cause we simply don't have it. The bathrooms
haven't been upgraded, but I am going to do the lights and mirrors. No
$ for the rest.

Seems that everyone wants 2006 in a 30 year old house and they want
someone else to do it.

Keep your original asking price or even a little higher, BUT offer
$10,000 cash back to buyer at closing so they can do their own upgrades
to their taste.
Cash is ALWAYS attractive!