I know what happens electrically with my current old oil furnace when
the oil doesn't ignite. A relay is tripped that has to be reset
mechanically with a red button.

But someday soon I may need a new furnace and I don't know how they
work.

Here is the reason: I'm getting a new burglar alarm (mine went up in
smoke, literally) and my friend told me they had a built-in temp
sensor, to notify them if the house temp got too low.

It turns out this model requires an add-on switch, and while trying to
decide where to put it and how to wire it, it occurred to me: Why
wait until the house is getting too cold. Then if I'm away, my
friends only have a day or two to get there and fix the furnace and
warm the place up. Why not also notify the monitoring company there
is a problem when the furnace first tries to ignite and can't (no
fuel, nozzle clogged, furnace broken, etc.)

My current furnace has a mechanical relay, a latching relay I
presume????

and if it is not double pole or double throw, I could buy a latching
relay that is, and use it instead and connect the unused pole to
notify the alarm that the furnace needs resetting. I would give that
its own zone, so that I would notice it even when I was home, when
setting the alarm.

But I'm guessing everything is transistorized in a new furnace I buy.
I don't have trouble working with IC's and circuit boards, but that
doesn't mean there will be a place to connect. Is there any way to do
the same thing with the new furnace? Is there a brand of furnace that
would make this easier than other brands?

There may be depending upon the burner, however the problem with your
current thinking is that the burner primary control,(the box with the reset)
doesn't necessarily have power to it at all times. Once other parts of the
control system send power to the primary, its internal controls assure that
the burner makes fire, and if not, locks it out. Without building a
complicated contraption, the easiest solution would be a temperature
sensing device and a phone dialer.



"mm" wrote in message
...
I know what happens electrically with my current old oil furnace when
the oil doesn't ignite. A relay is tripped that has to be reset
mechanically with a red button.

But someday soon I may need a new furnace and I don't know how they
work.

Here is the reason: I'm getting a new burglar alarm (mine went up in
smoke, literally) and my friend told me they had a built-in temp
sensor, to notify them if the house temp got too low.

It turns out this model requires an add-on switch, and while trying to
decide where to put it and how to wire it, it occurred to me: Why
wait until the house is getting too cold. Then if I'm away, my
friends only have a day or two to get there and fix the furnace and
warm the place up. Why not also notify the monitoring company there
is a problem when the furnace first tries to ignite and can't (no
fuel, nozzle clogged, furnace broken, etc.)

My current furnace has a mechanical relay, a latching relay I
presume????

and if it is not double pole or double throw, I could buy a latching
relay that is, and use it instead and connect the unused pole to
notify the alarm that the furnace needs resetting. I would give that
its own zone, so that I would notice it even when I was home, when
setting the alarm.

But I'm guessing everything is transistorized in a new furnace I buy.
I don't have trouble working with IC's and circuit boards, but that
doesn't mean there will be a place to connect. Is there any way to do
the same thing with the new furnace? Is there a brand of furnace that
would make this easier than other brands?

While I'm sure you can figure out a way to do this, I doubt it's worth
all the trouble, such as trying to decypher and wire into the
electronicc ontrols of a brand new furnace. As noted, the burglar
alarm has the ability to monitor temp. As long as the temp to set off
the alarm can be set to just below the temp you keep the house at, say
3 to 5 degrees, I don;t see where the furnace alarm is going to give
much additional benefit. If the alarm doesn't allow a temp you like,
but has external inputs, I'd just hook up a termostat to it.

I see 2 scenarios. One, it's winter and 10 degrees outside and the
furnace fails to start. The only thing you gain with the furnace alarm
is the time it takes for the house to drop 3 degrees, which might be an
hour or two at most, which hardly seems worth the trouble, as you
still have quite a bit of time before anything is going to freeze.
Or other scenario is it's Fall and 40 outside, in which case it may
take 6 hours to drop and trigger the alarm. But, in that case, you
have days to fix the furnace.

I'm sure there is a way to connect the alarm someplace on the furnace
indicating it's in lockout. On some of the gas boilers with electronic
ignition, there are terminals on the module that normally close or open
in case of lockout, or send some kind of voltage to those terminals if
you want to connect a signaling device such as a light or buzzer.
I have a 2 year old Trane XR80 furnace. I'm not sure if there are
terminals on the circuit board to connect an alarm, but it's a very
good idea you have. I have to look at the schematic.

While gas burners tend to have more sophisticated controls than oil burners
and would probably be easier to tie and alarm to the lockout function, you'd
still be leaving yourself vulnerable to failures of other parts of the
system, like thermostat failure or wiring failure or power failure.
Ultimately temperature is what you're concerned with, and the simplest thing
to tie an alarm to



"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
There may be depending upon the burner, however the problem with your
current thinking is that the burner primary control,(the box with the
reset) doesn't necessarily have power to it at all times. Once other parts
of the control system send power to the primary, its internal controls
assure that the burner makes fire, and if not, locks it out. Without
building a complicated contraption, the easiest solution would be a
temperature sensing device and a phone dialer.



"mm" wrote in message
...
I know what happens electrically with my current old oil furnace when
the oil doesn't ignite. A relay is tripped that has to be reset
mechanically with a red button.

But someday soon I may need a new furnace and I don't know how they
work.

Here is the reason: I'm getting a new burglar alarm (mine went up in
smoke, literally) and my friend told me they had a built-in temp
sensor, to notify them if the house temp got too low.

It turns out this model requires an add-on switch, and while trying to
decide where to put it and how to wire it, it occurred to me: Why
wait until the house is getting too cold. Then if I'm away, my
friends only have a day or two to get there and fix the furnace and
warm the place up. Why not also notify the monitoring company there
is a problem when the furnace first tries to ignite and can't (no
fuel, nozzle clogged, furnace broken, etc.)

My current furnace has a mechanical relay, a latching relay I
presume????

and if it is not double pole or double throw, I could buy a latching
relay that is, and use it instead and connect the unused pole to
notify the alarm that the furnace needs resetting. I would give that
its own zone, so that I would notice it even when I was home, when
setting the alarm.

But I'm guessing everything is transistorized in a new furnace I buy.
I don't have trouble working with IC's and circuit boards, but that
doesn't mean there will be a place to connect. Is there any way to do
the same thing with the new furnace? Is there a brand of furnace that
would make this easier than other brands?

On 6 May 2006 04:45:50 -0700, wrote:

While I'm sure you can figure out a way to do this, I doubt it's worth
all the trouble, such as trying to decypher and wire into the
electronicc ontrols of a brand new furnace. As noted, the burglar
alarm has the ability to monitor temp. As long as the temp to set off
the alarm can be set to just below the temp you keep the house at, say
3 to 5 degrees, I don;t see where the furnace alarm is going to give
much additional benefit. If the alarm doesn't allow a temp you like,
but has external inputs, I'd just hook up a termostat to it.

I see 2 scenarios. One, it's winter and 10 degrees outside and the
furnace fails to start. The only thing you gain with the furnace alarm
is the time it takes for the house to drop 3 degrees, which might be an
hour or two at most, which hardly seems worth the trouble, as you

I should have said that I plan to go away next winter, for maybe 2 to
4 months, for work, and plan to keep the house at one of the
temperatures we've talked about here. 50? 48? And the temp was to
be that high on the theory that it might be colder by some of the
pipes than it is at the thermostat. 45? 43?

And I'll be depending on a friend yet to be chosen to come, figure out
what is wrong, and fix it. Whichever friend I enlist, I'm afraid
he'll do it but will take too long. Maybe I should drain the pipes,
and put antifreeze in the toilets and drains, but I figure the furnace
lockout notification will be useful even on other trips of a week or
so.


RBM is right about the potential problems in the other parts of the
heating system, but in all but one case, it was the red button that
needed pushing, sometimes for no special reason that I could find. I
also once ordered fuel just before a trip, and gave them my credit
card number and the fuel never came. That time, I didn't run out until
2 weeks after I got back.

That one case was a 3-day power failure, the only one more in 23 years
that lasted more than 28 hours. If the house temp hadn't been 68 to
start, maybe it would have gotten freezing cold inside. But the
alarm comes with built-in power failure notification.


still have quite a bit of time before anything is going to freeze.
Or other scenario is it's Fall and 40 outside, in which case it may
take 6 hours to drop and trigger the alarm. But, in that case, you
have days to fix the furnace.

On Sat, 6 May 2006 07:19:34 -0400, "RBM" rbm2(remove
wrote:

There may be depending upon the burner, however the problem with your
current thinking is that the burner primary control,(the box with the reset)
doesn't necessarily have power to it at all times. Once other parts of the
control system send power to the primary, its internal controls assure that
the burner makes fire, and if not, locks it out. Without building a
complicated contraption, the easiest solution would be a temperature
sensing device and a phone dialer.

Are you talking about the new electronic furnaces, or my barely
electronic one? (Currently I have 15 resistors, 10 little
capacitors, a few transistors, and that relay with the red button in a
little grey box a little taller than a box of kitchen matches.)


BTW, I am also going to have the temp sensor and, because my friend
owns the burglar alarm company, the whole digital communicator bit,
with monitoring. And the alarm comes with built-in power failure
notification. But if I can get myself another day or two, it
doesn't have to be the easiest solution. After all this would be a
fun project.



"mm" wrote in message
.. .
I know what happens electrically with my current old oil furnace when
the oil doesn't ignite. A relay is tripped that has to be reset
mechanically with a red button.

But someday soon I may need a new furnace and I don't know how they
work.

Here is the reason: I'm getting a new burglar alarm (mine went up in
smoke, literally) and my friend told me they had a built-in temp
sensor, to notify them if the house temp got too low.

It turns out this model requires an add-on switch, and while trying to
decide where to put it and how to wire it, it occurred to me: Why
wait until the house is getting too cold. Then if I'm away, my
friends only have a day or two to get there and fix the furnace and
warm the place up. Why not also notify the monitoring company there
is a problem when the furnace first tries to ignite and can't (no
fuel, nozzle clogged, furnace broken, etc.)

My current furnace has a mechanical relay, a latching relay I
presume????

and if it is not double pole or double throw, I could buy a latching
relay that is, and use it instead and connect the unused pole to
notify the alarm that the furnace needs resetting. I would give that
its own zone, so that I would notice it even when I was home, when
setting the alarm.

But I'm guessing everything is transistorized in a new furnace I buy.
I don't have trouble working with IC's and circuit boards, but that
doesn't mean there will be a place to connect. Is there any way to do
the same thing with the new furnace? Is there a brand of furnace that
would make this easier than other brands?

drain the pipes. plug in some electric thermostat controlled heaters.
point your webcam at the digital thermometers on the wall into which
you have installed new batteries.
see some alarm ideas on ebay:
Freeze Alarm With Voice Dialer

mm wrote:

I know what happens electrically with my current old oil furnace when
the oil doesn't ignite. A relay is tripped that has to be reset
mechanically with a red button.

But someday soon I may need a new furnace and I don't know how they
work.

Here is the reason: I'm getting a new burglar alarm (mine went up in
smoke, literally) and my friend told me they had a built-in temp
sensor, to notify them if the house temp got too low.

It turns out this model requires an add-on switch, and while trying to
decide where to put it and how to wire it, it occurred to me: Why
wait until the house is getting too cold. Then if I'm away, my
friends only have a day or two to get there and fix the furnace and
warm the place up. Why not also notify the monitoring company there
is a problem when the furnace first tries to ignite and can't (no
fuel, nozzle clogged, furnace broken, etc.)

My current furnace has a mechanical relay, a latching relay I
presume????

and if it is not double pole or double throw, I could buy a latching
relay that is, and use it instead and connect the unused pole to
notify the alarm that the furnace needs resetting. I would give that
its own zone, so that I would notice it even when I was home, when
setting the alarm.

But I'm guessing everything is transistorized in a new furnace I buy.
I don't have trouble working with IC's and circuit boards, but that
doesn't mean there will be a place to connect. Is there any way to do
the same thing with the new furnace? Is there a brand of furnace that
would make this easier than other brands?


In the daze of my youth, we just used a 120 volt rated thermostatat to
switch on a red bulb in the front window if the room temperature dropped
because the furnace failed.

The friendly neighbors would take care of it from there.

Not eggsackly foolproof if you lost power or that one lightbulb decided
to fail there's better ways now.

No "red light district" jokes please, we heard 'em all back then.

Thanks for the mammaries,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

In article , says...

mm wrote:

I know what happens electrically with my current old oil furnace when
the oil doesn't ignite. A relay is tripped that has to be reset
mechanically with a red button.

But someday soon I may need a new furnace and I don't know how they
work.

Here is the reason: I'm getting a new burglar alarm (mine went up in
smoke, literally) and my friend told me they had a built-in temp
sensor, to notify them if the house temp got too low.

It turns out this model requires an add-on switch, and while trying to
decide where to put it and how to wire it, it occurred to me: Why
wait until the house is getting too cold. Then if I'm away, my
friends only have a day or two to get there and fix the furnace and
warm the place up. Why not also notify the monitoring company there
is a problem when the furnace first tries to ignite and can't (no
fuel, nozzle clogged, furnace broken, etc.)

My current furnace has a mechanical relay, a latching relay I
presume????

and if it is not double pole or double throw, I could buy a latching
relay that is, and use it instead and connect the unused pole to
notify the alarm that the furnace needs resetting. I would give that
its own zone, so that I would notice it even when I was home, when
setting the alarm.

But I'm guessing everything is transistorized in a new furnace I buy.
I don't have trouble working with IC's and circuit boards, but that
doesn't mean there will be a place to connect. Is there any way to do
the same thing with the new furnace? Is there a brand of furnace that
would make this easier than other brands?


In the daze of my youth, we just used a 120 volt rated thermostatat to
switch on a red bulb in the front window if the room temperature dropped
because the furnace failed.

The friendly neighbors would take care of it from there.

Not eggsackly foolproof if you lost power or that one lightbulb decided
to fail there's better ways now.

No "red light district" jokes please, we heard 'em all back then.

Thanks for the mammaries,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Check out the following link. This is an oil burner primary control with alarm
contacts that could easily be incorporated in your alarm system.

http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeyw...spx/R7184U1004

On Mon, 08 May 2006 11:34:29 GMT, (Matt Howell)
wrote:

In article , says...

mm wrote:

I know what happens electrically with my current old oil furnace when
the oil doesn't ignite. A relay is tripped that has to be reset
mechanically with a red button.

But someday soon I may need a new furnace and I don't know how they
work.

Here is the reason: I'm getting a new burglar alarm (mine went up in
smoke, literally) and my friend told me they had a built-in temp
sensor, to notify them if the house temp got too low.

It turns out this model requires an add-on switch, and while trying to
decide where to put it and how to wire it, it occurred to me: Why
wait until the house is getting too cold. Then if I'm away, my
friends only have a day or two to get there and fix the furnace and
warm the place up. Why not also notify the monitoring company there
is a problem when the furnace first tries to ignite and can't (no
fuel, nozzle clogged, furnace broken, etc.)

My current furnace has a mechanical relay, a latching relay I
presume????

and if it is not double pole or double throw, I could buy a latching
relay that is, and use it instead and connect the unused pole to
notify the alarm that the furnace needs resetting. I would give that
its own zone, so that I would notice it even when I was home, when
setting the alarm.

But I'm guessing everything is transistorized in a new furnace I buy.
I don't have trouble working with IC's and circuit boards, but that
doesn't mean there will be a place to connect. Is there any way to do
the same thing with the new furnace? Is there a brand of furnace that
would make this easier than other brands?


In the daze of my youth, we just used a 120 volt rated thermostatat to
switch on a red bulb in the front window if the room temperature dropped
because the furnace failed.

The friendly neighbors would take care of it from there.

Not eggsackly foolproof if you lost power or that one lightbulb decided
to fail there's better ways now.

FWIW One neighbor is good, the others fair, but the trees have gotten
so big, I can barely see the street from my windows,and they can't see
my house.

Jeff

Jeffry Wisnia

Check out the following link. This is an oil burner primary control with alarm
contacts that could easily be incorporated in your alarm system.

http://customer.honeywell.com/Honeyw...spx/R7184U1004

This looks great. Thanks so much.