Have you thought about the fact electric heat is still 50% more
expensive than gas for most of the US

m Ransley wrote:

Have you thought about the fact electric heat is still 50% more
expensive than gas for most of the US

Gas may not be readily available to him and it certainly is not as safe
as electric.

At any rate, he's better off installing hydronic baseboard fed by an
electric boiler for two reasons:

- One is his inspector won't allow the electric baseboard so it's not an
option.

- Two because the hydronic baseboard can be fed from any heat source so
he can readily change an electric boiler for a gas or oil boiler or
geothermal heat pump or solar collector in the future without requiring
replacement of the baseboard.

Pete C.

Our inspector will allow both types of electric baseboards. It's just
that the standard electric baseboard can't have an outlet above. The
hydronic electric baseboard can.

No gas in our area. We have an oil boiler. Yes, I did think about
adding a zone for the basement, but just the copper pipe alone will
cost me about $300. And I'm not willing to do this work myself. Our
oil supply company does do this work and they want $800 - $1000.

If I go with the electrical baseboards, I can do it for $200 for all
parts for standard electric baseboards, or $300 for the hydronic
electric baseboards. Plus, I can do electrical work myself, and I
enjoy it, so I consider my time to be free.

This room in the basement gets used for only one or two days a week for
only a few hours at a time. It hardly ever gets below 60 degrees down
there, even on the coldest days. So, the heater won't have to work
very hard. This is why I'm leaning towards lower install costs rather
than lower operating costs.

I'm also considering in-wall fan-based heaters. Anybody have an
opinion about those?

John

John Sevinsky wrote:

Our inspector will allow both types of electric baseboards. It's just
that the standard electric baseboard can't have an outlet above. The
hydronic electric baseboard can.

No gas in our area. We have an oil boiler. Yes, I did think about
adding a zone for the basement, but just the copper pipe alone will
cost me about $300. And I'm not willing to do this work myself. Our
oil supply company does do this work and they want $800 - $1000.

If I go with the electrical baseboards, I can do it for $200 for all
parts for standard electric baseboards, or $300 for the hydronic
electric baseboards. Plus, I can do electrical work myself, and I
enjoy it, so I consider my time to be free.

This room in the basement gets used for only one or two days a week for
only a few hours at a time. It hardly ever gets below 60 degrees down
there, even on the coldest days. So, the heater won't have to work
very hard. This is why I'm leaning towards lower install costs rather
than lower operating costs.

I'm also considering in-wall fan-based heaters. Anybody have an
opinion about those?

John

If the room gets used that infrequently the thermal mass of the room
will make it feel uncomfortable if you only turn the heat on when you
use the room. In that case look at radiant options like radiant wall or
ceiling panels which will have near instant effect to overcome the
effect of the cold floor and furnishings.

Pete C.

I thought about radiant ceiling panels too, but I haven't had any
experience with them. Do these things cycle on/off like any other
heater through the use of a thermostat? Will the people in the room
feel warm when it's on and cold whe it's off?

John

John Sevinsky wrote:

I thought about radiant ceiling panels too, but I haven't had any
experience with them. Do these things cycle on/off like any other
heater through the use of a thermostat? Will the people in the room
feel warm when it's on and cold whe it's off?

John

Best to check with the manufacturers info for details, but I don't
believe they produce noticeable cycles. Certainly they will produce a
noticeable effect much faster than any baseboard will.

Pete C.

According to John Sevinsky :
Our inspector will allow both types of electric baseboards. It's just
that the standard electric baseboard can't have an outlet above. The
hydronic electric baseboard can.

Usually you can arrange things so that you won't have a problem with
standard electric baseboards vs. outlets. However in some cases
(short walls), you might have a conflict regarding outlet spacing
and appropriate spaces for the heater.

Our code (Canadian) still permits outlets above baseboards. US code
does not. However, because of the latter, baseboards with integral
outlets are permissible and apparently fairly easy to get in the US.

There are electric heaters that look rather like a small radiator,
that you can mount on a wall. Your decor/situation may permit mounting
one high enough up on the wall to put the outlet underneath.

Even if you don't want to mount one of these things high, since they're
much narrower than an equivalent baseboard, you'll have room to put
the outlet beside it.

Here's a picture of a high end one: http://www.morelectric.com/ef621c.htm

I installed one that has no controls or fan - it's run from a wall
thermostat, and mounts about 1" away from the wall on a metal
bracket. About $70 CDN for 1Kw - perhaps 50% more than an equivalent
baseboard.

[Can't remember the manufacturer right now, otherwise, I could find
you a picture of the unit we're using. We're rearranging our bathroom,
and we needed something narrow and higher off the floor to avoid
stubbing one's feed on the existing baseboard.]

I'm also considering in-wall fan-based heaters. Anybody have an
opinion about those?

They're pretty good and warm the area up rather faster than standard
baseboard convection. We installed a pair of biggish Chromolox
ones (2.5Kw?) back in the early 70's, still going strong.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

If the room gets used that infrequently the thermal mass of the room
will make it feel uncomfortable if you only turn the heat on when you
use the room. In that case look at radiant options like radiant wall or
ceiling panels which will have near instant effect to overcome the
effect of the cold floor and furnishings.

I checked into this. The place that I called (Enerjoy) estimated that
I needed three 500W 2x4 ceiling panels at $199 each, plus shipping. I
can't seem to find a place locally that stocks something like this. It
would be nice to try one first before spending over $600.

Cheap baseboard heaters from Lowe's are about 1/10 that price. Hmm...

John

John Sevinsky wrote:

If the room gets used that infrequently the thermal mass of the room
will make it feel uncomfortable if you only turn the heat on when you
use the room. In that case look at radiant options like radiant wall or
ceiling panels which will have near instant effect to overcome the
effect of the cold floor and furnishings.

I checked into this. The place that I called (Enerjoy) estimated that
I needed three 500W 2x4 ceiling panels at $199 each, plus shipping. I
can't seem to find a place locally that stocks something like this. It
would be nice to try one first before spending over $600.

Cheap baseboard heaters from Lowe's are about 1/10 that price. Hmm...

John

Often the case that the better product is not as conveniently available.
The manufacturer(s) should be able to direct you to a distributor that
might have a showroom display.

The baseboard is cheap and easy, but I expect you'll find the
operational cost to be higher once you find how far in advance you have
to preheat the room in order to be comfortable.

Pete C.