One of my projects for when the weather warms
is to install a doorbell in this old house. I'd
like to know what the safety/legality is of
using doorbell wire along the outside wall.

The local bigbox hardware store has 75' rolls
of 'bell wire', and I think the easiest & most
out-of-sight route is down the door frame and
under some moulding around to a basement window
(I can't go in through the wall).

The wire is 3 conductor with an outer sheath,
but it does not specify indoor or outdoor use.
Is there any code (Canada) regarding exterior
cable in low-voltage applications such as this?

URL's, pointers and opinions welcome.

Randy Day wrote:
One of my projects for when the weather warms
is to install a doorbell in this old house. I'd
like to know what the safety/legality is of
using doorbell wire along the outside wall.

The local bigbox hardware store has 75' rolls
of 'bell wire', and I think the easiest & most
out-of-sight route is down the door frame and
under some moulding around to a basement window
(I can't go in through the wall).

The wire is 3 conductor with an outer sheath,
but it does not specify indoor or outdoor use.
Is there any code (Canada) regarding exterior
cable in low-voltage applications such as this?

URL's, pointers and opinions welcome.

what about a wireless doorbell

wrote:
Randy Day wrote:

[snip]

what about a wireless doorbell

There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...

"Randy Day" wrote in message

There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...

No, not the old style ding-dong types. this is like the regular bells.

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...m.0& MID=9876

Randy Day wrote:
wrote:
Randy Day wrote:

[snip]

what about a wireless doorbell

There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...

People think that the more times they push a button, the faster I'll
get to the door. I finally replaced it with a wireless motion sensor
mounted out of reach that beeps inside when someone drives in the
driveway or starts walking up the front sidewalk. Then I put a large
round doorbell button with no wiring next to the door so people can push
the button all day to relieve their anxieties while they wait for me to
answer the door. The transmitter and receiver together cost $34 for the
wireless motion sensor, and it's sure easier than running wires.

Bob

"RobertM" wrote in message

Then I put a large round doorbell button with no wiring next to the door
so people can push the button all day to relieve their anxieties while
they wait for me to answer the door.

I just fixed our doorbell a few months ago. It broke in 1982 and frankly,
we didn't miss it. People that I really want to see know to come to the
side door by the family room.

Bob, Could you please tell me the brand and model no. of your unit?

I purchased one of these, and it went off constantly, even when the wind
would blow.

Thanks.

Corinne

RobertM wrote:

Randy Day wrote:

wrote:

Randy Day wrote:


[snip]

what about a wireless doorbell


There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...


People think that the more times they push a button, the faster I'll
get to the door. I finally replaced it with a wireless motion sensor
mounted out of reach that beeps inside when someone drives in the
driveway or starts walking up the front sidewalk. Then I put a large
round doorbell button with no wiring next to the door so people can push
the button all day to relieve their anxieties while they wait for me to
answer the door. The transmitter and receiver together cost $34 for the
wireless motion sensor, and it's sure easier than running wires.

Bob

I've been looking for one of these, but a guy I know who has one says it
goes off by itself sometimes. What brand and model number did you buy?

"RobertM" wrote in message
...
Randy Day wrote:
wrote:
Randy Day wrote:

[snip]

what about a wireless doorbell

There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...

People think that the more times they push a button, the faster I'll
get to the door. I finally replaced it with a wireless motion sensor
mounted out of reach that beeps inside when someone drives in the
driveway or starts walking up the front sidewalk. Then I put a large
round doorbell button with no wiring next to the door so people can push
the button all day to relieve their anxieties while they wait for me to
answer the door. The transmitter and receiver together cost $34 for the
wireless motion sensor, and it's sure easier than running wires.

Bob

I've been looking for one. What brand and model do you have, so I know not
to buy that one.

"Corinne" wrote in message
news
Bob, Could you please tell me the brand and model no. of your unit?

I purchased one of these, and it went off constantly, even when the wind
would blow.

Thanks.

Corinne

RobertM wrote:

Randy Day wrote:

wrote:

Randy Day wrote:


[snip]

what about a wireless doorbell


There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...


People think that the more times they push a button, the faster I'll
get to the door. I finally replaced it with a wireless motion sensor
mounted out of reach that beeps inside when someone drives in the
driveway or starts walking up the front sidewalk. Then I put a large
round doorbell button with no wiring next to the door so people can push
the button all day to relieve their anxieties while they wait for me to
answer the door. The transmitter and receiver together cost $34 for the
wireless motion sensor, and it's sure easier than running wires.

Bob

Corinne wrote:
Bob, Could you please tell me the brand and model no. of your unit?

I purchased one of these, and it went off constantly, even when the wind
would blow.

Thanks.

Corinne

RobertM wrote:

Randy Day wrote:

wrote:

Randy Day wrote:


[snip]

what about a wireless doorbell


There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...

People think that the more times they push a button, the
faster I'll get to the door. I finally replaced it with a wireless
motion sensor mounted out of reach that beeps inside when someone
drives in the driveway or starts walking up the front sidewalk. Then I
put a large round doorbell button with no wiring next to the door so
people can push the button all day to relieve their anxieties while
they wait for me to answer the door. The transmitter and receiver
together cost $34 for the wireless motion sensor, and it's sure easier
than running wires.

Bob

http://www.kopes.com/gadgets/securit...less-chime.htm

Instructions say you can experiment with putting tape over part of the
sensor for limiting direction. Only time I have a false alert was during
a windstorm when a large branch fell.

Bob

Bob wrote:
I've been looking for one of these, but a guy I know who has one says it
goes off by itself sometimes. What brand and model number did you buy?


http://www.kopes.com/gadgets/securit...less-chime.htm

Bob

To answer the original question, AFAIK, there is nothing thay prevents
you from running low voltage door bell wiring anywhere around the
exterior of the house. If you have it covered under some trim molding,
it should work fine. Or, the wireless units are an option too.

Thanks.

"RobertM" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:
I've been looking for one of these, but a guy I know who has one says it
goes off by itself sometimes. What brand and model number did you buy?


http://www.kopes.com/gadgets/securit...less-chime.htm

Bob

Randy, I have skimmed the Canadian Electrical Code-Part 1 and "Wiring
for Canadian Homes and Cottages" (CSA publication as well), and could
find no references to the above.

That being said, the typical scenario is a step-down transformer to
reduce your 120Vac to typically 24Vac, which then runs up to your chime
and push button. My personal recommendation is to run a minimum of
14guage wire.

Beyond that, you may not want to run the wire where it is exposed as
there is a higher degree for tampering with it, and being affected by
the elements.

Bob wrote:
Thanks.

"RobertM" wrote in message
...
Bob wrote:
I've been looking for one of these, but a guy I know who has one says it
goes off by itself sometimes. What brand and model number did you buy?

http://www.kopes.com/gadgets/securit...less-chime.htm

Bob


An after thought. When I ordered, they were out of stock and notified
me immediately that it would be backordered. Delivery was a little slow
(3 weeks) but well worth the wait.

Bob

wrote:
To answer the original question, AFAIK, there is nothing thay prevents
you from running low voltage door bell wiring anywhere around the
exterior of the house. If you have it covered under some trim molding,
it should work fine. Or, the wireless units are an option too.

Most wire will have a type number assigned to it. If you can determine
this, you can do a google and then check the UV rating. Some types of
insulation deteriorate when exposed to the sun.

Bob

Justin West wrote:

Randy, I have skimmed the Canadian Electrical Code-Part 1 and "Wiring
for Canadian Homes and Cottages" (CSA publication as well), and could
find no references to the above.

That being said, the typical scenario is a step-down transformer to
reduce your 120Vac to typically 24Vac, which then runs up to your chime
and push button. My personal recommendation is to run a minimum of
14guage wire.

My intention is to be as by-the-book on this
as possible. I know about the 24v xformer, and
I suspected the 'book' might not address it
because of that, but I thought I should ask the
experts here before assuming anything.

So there are no apparent restrictions on it,
but no guidelines, either. Oh well...

14 gauge might be a bit large to fit under the
moulding, but I'll look into it.


Beyond that, you may not want to run the wire where it is exposed as
there is a higher degree for tampering with it, and being affected by
the elements.

I don't have the option of ripping out the wall
to install the wire, so exterior seems the least
objectionable alternative.

Thanks.

wrote:

To answer the original question, AFAIK, there is nothing thay prevents
you from running low voltage door bell wiring anywhere around the
exterior of the house. If you have it covered under some trim molding,
it should work fine. Or, the wireless units are an option too.

There's a small plastic plate mounted
by the front door where a doorbell
would be; someone had a wireless unit
and took it away with him, or someone
else took the button...

Something like that seems a little too
'portable' for a rental unit.

On Sat, 28 Jan 2006 20:37:04 -0600, RobertM
wrote:

Randy Day wrote:
wrote:
Randy Day wrote:

[snip]

what about a wireless doorbell

There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...

People think that the more times they push a button, the faster I'll
get to the door.

Now I'm getting an idea for an anti-multiple-presses device. Have the
button start a timer that causes additional button presses during the
next 3 seconds (or whatever you specify) to be ignored.

I finally replaced it with a wireless motion sensor
mounted out of reach that beeps inside when someone drives in the
driveway or starts walking up the front sidewalk.

I used to have one of those motion detectors. I got tired of birds
(warm bodies) setting the thing off every few minutes. Reducing the
sensitivity just replaces lots of false positives with lots of false
negatives.

Then I put a large
round doorbell button with no wiring next to the door so people can push
the button all day to relieve their anxieties while they wait for me to
answer the door. The transmitter and receiver together cost $34 for the
wireless motion sensor, and it's sure easier than running wires.

Bob

BTW, while I was typing that, I got to see an example of when Windows
unexpectedly disables insert mode. As I was correcting a mistake, I
could see the cursor "eating" the following text.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Now I'm getting an idea for an anti-multiple-presses device. Have the
button start a timer that causes additional button presses during the
next 3 seconds (or whatever you specify) to be ignored.

Easy enough to do with an Interval On relay. Or a timer chip such as a
LM555 or 74HC122. The 74HC122 would be good because it's a retriggerable
flip-flop. Every time they pushed the button it would extend the
non-response time for another 3 seconds. The more they pushed the
button, the more they wouldn't be heard. I kind of like that.

Bob

On 29 Jan 2006 05:26:49 -0800, "Justin West" wrote:

Randy, I have skimmed the Canadian Electrical Code-Part 1 and "Wiring
for Canadian Homes and Cottages" (CSA publication as well), and could
find no references to the above.

That being said, the typical scenario is a step-down transformer to
reduce your 120Vac to typically 24Vac, which then runs up to your chime
and push button. My personal recommendation is to run a minimum of
14guage wire.


I looked at the transformer for my doorbell. The secondary is marked
"16V". The measured voltage is 19.3VAC. The wire connected to it looks
like 24 gauge.

Beyond that, you may not want to run the wire where it is exposed as
there is a higher degree for tampering with it, and being affected by
the elements.

--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

On Sun, 29 Jan 2006 19:03:23 GMT, Randy Day
wrote:

Justin West wrote:

Randy, I have skimmed the Canadian Electrical Code-Part 1 and "Wiring
for Canadian Homes and Cottages" (CSA publication as well), and could
find no references to the above.

That being said, the typical scenario is a step-down transformer to
reduce your 120Vac to typically 24Vac, which then runs up to your chime
and push button. My personal recommendation is to run a minimum of
14guage wire.

My intention is to be as by-the-book on this
as possible. I know about the 24v xformer, and
I suspected the 'book' might not address it
because of that, but I thought I should ask the
experts here before assuming anything.

So there are no apparent restrictions on it,
but no guidelines, either. Oh well...

14 gauge might be a bit large to fit under the
moulding, but I'll look into it.


And seems excessive for just the low-voltage circuit for a doorbell.
Those transformers probably can't put out more than 1A or so. 24 gauge
should be suitable.


Beyond that, you may not want to run the wire where it is exposed as
there is a higher degree for tampering with it, and being affected by
the elements.

I don't have the option of ripping out the wall
to install the wire, so exterior seems the least
objectionable alternative.

Thanks.
--
Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Randy Day" wrote in message

There's a base for one stuck to the doorframe;
Either a previous tenant took part of it with
him, or some kid from the neighborhood did.

I want to install something a little more
permanent...


No, not the old style ding-dong types. this is like the regular bells.

http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS...m.0& MID=9876

Your link brings up a page of electrical generators and
appliances.

I'm not talking about the little mechanical toy types,
either. I've been to Home Depot and I've seen the
wireless units. A receiver/bell you stick on the wall
like a regular bell unit, and 2 doorbell-switch-sized
transmitters you mount at each door. That's the kind
that was apparently installed here at one time.

My point still stands; I *don't* consider wireless units
to be suitable for rental units because it's *too easy*
for a light-fingered tenant to make off with a working
doorbell system.

"Randy Day" wrote in message

My point still stands; I *don't* consider wireless units
to be suitable for rental units because it's *too easy*
for a light-fingered tenant to make off with a working
doorbell system.

Screw the bell, put on a knocker