I'm starting a project to finish my basement and my cold air return
runs across my floor joists from one end of the house to the other -
front to back. It passes in front of three basement windows and dips
under the basement stair landing on the way. My question - one I'm too
intimidated to post on that nasty HVAC site - is whether or not it is
feasible to just put my cold air return in the basement near the
furnace in order to eliminate all the ductwork. I normally wouldn't
consider this, but since I am finishing the basement and will keep it
the same temp as the rest of the house, I thought it might even help
circulate the air throughout the house. In addition, I am installing
radiant heat flooring in my kitchen, which is where the cold air return
is now. Right now, I have about 40 feet of duct work for one return in
my kitchen. Thanks for your help.

dave wrote:
I'm starting a project to finish my basement and my cold air return
runs across my floor joists from one end of the house to the other -
front to back. It passes in front of three basement windows and dips
under the basement stair landing on the way. My question - one I'm too
intimidated to post on that nasty HVAC site - is whether or not it is
feasible to just put my cold air return in the basement near the
furnace in order to eliminate all the ductwork. I normally wouldn't
consider this, but since I am finishing the basement and will keep it
the same temp as the rest of the house, I thought it might even help
circulate the air throughout the house. In addition, I am installing
radiant heat flooring in my kitchen, which is where the cold air return
is now. Right now, I have about 40 feet of duct work for one return in
my kitchen. Thanks for your help.


That's poor practice. It means the basement door
must be kept open for all the return flow (I'm guessing)

Also, Codes no longer permit the return opening
near the furnace (or other burners).
See:
http://www.codecheck.com/pg19_20mechanical.html#ducts
Fig. m5

Your local Code may be even more restrictive.
You might not care, but it can make for a difficult
time when you sell the house.

Jim

Thanks. If I'm reading that right, it's also a violation of code have
the return in the kitchen. Frankly, I'm less concerned with code than
with safe and efficient operations. I know that sometimes they are not
the same thing. It's a 1942 house. I am eliminating the basement door,
and I intend to install a wall between the furnace (and burners) and
the return duct - although it would still be only about a three-foot
run. Does this help? If not, are there alternatives? Maybe I can
reroute the return to my living room at the front of the house? As you
can tell, I'm looking for a way to get my windows back in the basement.
The 7-foot ceilings down there are low enough already. Thanks again

"dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks. If I'm reading that right, it's also a violation of code have
the return in the kitchen. Frankly, I'm less concerned with code than
with safe and efficient operations. I know that sometimes they are not
the same thing. It's a 1942 house. I am eliminating the basement door,
and I intend to install a wall between the furnace (and burners) and
the return duct - although it would still be only about a three-foot
run. Does this help? If not, are there alternatives? Maybe I can
reroute the return to my living room at the front of the house? As you
can tell, I'm looking for a way to get my windows back in the basement.
The 7-foot ceilings down there are low enough already. Thanks again

The other thing to consider:

If you have your air conditioning tied into the same system, you have to
think of it as a WARM air return. If it was in the basement, how would it
get rid of the warm air (that rises) upstairs?

dave wrote:

Thanks. If I'm reading that right, it's also a violation of code have
the return in the kitchen. Frankly, I'm less concerned with code than
with safe and efficient operations. I know that sometimes they are not
the same thing. It's a 1942 house. I am eliminating the basement door,
and I intend to install a wall between the furnace (and burners) and
the return duct - although it would still be only about a three-foot
run. Does this help? If not, are there alternatives? Maybe I can
reroute the return to my living room at the front of the house? As you
can tell, I'm looking for a way to get my windows back in the basement.
The 7-foot ceilings down there are low enough already. Thanks again


A return in the living rm might be good.
Make it a BIG one to handle all the flow though.

That's a difficult design decision, because the
path for the return flow affects the comfort of all
the rooms. I'm not a HVAC designer so I won't
try to guess from here.
Jim

Thanks for all the advice. You guys are great, and fast. I think I have
the perfect place for it in the living room. But I'll call a pro to
have a look before I take the sawzall out of its case.

Thanks for the advice. I'm less concerned about code than I am the
efficiency and safety of the system. What if there is a wall separating
the burners from the return - even though its only three feet of duct?
I am losing my basement door altogether. Are there any alternatives?
Maybe I can redirect the cold air return to my living room at front of
house? Again, thanks

You may not be as comfortable in heat and wont be as comfortable in AC
mode. Ac for my second floor would not cool till a return was installed.
Ive experimented temporarily blocking returns in winter only to open
them and notice a difference in comfort .

My situation is a little different cuz I have a completely different
ac/furnace system on my second floor, the return for it is in the
staircase. I also think my basement problem was a retrofit because no
one would have designed a house with huge ducts in front of windows -
basement or not. Sounds like I need a pro to put eyes on things in my
house. Thanks again

On 26 Jan 2006 08:10:08 -0800, "dave" wrote:

I'm starting a project to finish my basement and my cold air return
runs across my floor joists from one end of the house to the other -
front to back. It passes in front of three basement windows and dips
under the basement stair landing on the way. My question - one I'm too
intimidated to post on that nasty HVAC site - is whether or not it is
feasible to just put my cold air return in the basement near the
furnace in order to eliminate all the ductwork. I normally wouldn't
consider this, but since I am finishing the basement and will keep it
the same temp as the rest of the house, I thought it might even help
circulate the air throughout the house. In addition, I am installing
radiant heat flooring in my kitchen, which is where the cold air return
is now. Right now, I have about 40 feet of duct work for one return in
my kitchen. Thanks for your help.

Can't answer your question but my '79 townhouse with heat and AC has
only 2 air returns, one in the basement about a foot from the furnace,
but on the other side of the one interior wall in the basement, and
the other two stories higher in what is the same wall.

Of course there should be separate heating supply ducts and AC supply
ducts, and the supply for one should be the return for the others, but
despite all this, the place is fine. It's comfortable everywhere in
the house.

My only complaint is that I can hear the circulation fan when the heat
is on, and sometimes I even shut my bedroom door so I can't hear it.

But my furnace fan only has three possible speeds and only one can be
used without changing the connections. It's on the slowest speed, and
I tried the other two to make sure. Furnaces a few years newer have
several fan speeds and the furnace selects one, or the user can,
including a different one for heat and ac.

I't's not a lot of noise - It's never woken me up -- I'm just picky.

Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

dave wrote:
I'm starting a project to finish my basement and my cold air return
runs across my floor joists from one end of the house to the other -
front to back. It passes in front of three basement windows and dips
under the basement stair landing on the way. My question - one I'm too
intimidated to post on that nasty HVAC site - is whether or not it is
feasible to just put my cold air return in the basement near the
furnace in order to eliminate all the ductwork. I normally wouldn't
consider this, but since I am finishing the basement and will keep it
the same temp as the rest of the house, I thought it might even help
circulate the air throughout the house. In addition, I am installing
radiant heat flooring in my kitchen, which is where the cold air return
is now. Right now, I have about 40 feet of duct work for one return in
my kitchen. Thanks for your help.

I would check with a local HVAC conractor!

At minimum you will need a louver in your basement door so the air can
flow easily.

even at that your energy bills may increase, since it may be harder to
move air thru the system

do you want bigger energy bills? if so give me your address, i will be
happy to send you mine

Are those Code Check books worth the money?

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
et...
dave wrote:
I'm starting a project to finish my basement and my cold air return
runs across my floor joists from one end of the house to the other -
front to back. It passes in front of three basement windows and dips
under the basement stair landing on the way. My question - one I'm too
intimidated to post on that nasty HVAC site - is whether or not it is
feasible to just put my cold air return in the basement near the
furnace in order to eliminate all the ductwork. I normally wouldn't
consider this, but since I am finishing the basement and will keep it
the same temp as the rest of the house, I thought it might even help
circulate the air throughout the house. In addition, I am installing
radiant heat flooring in my kitchen, which is where the cold air return
is now. Right now, I have about 40 feet of duct work for one return in
my kitchen. Thanks for your help.


That's poor practice. It means the basement door
must be kept open for all the return flow (I'm guessing)

Also, Codes no longer permit the return opening
near the furnace (or other burners).
See:
http://www.codecheck.com/pg19_20mechanical.html#ducts
Fig. m5

Your local Code may be even more restrictive.
You might not care, but it can make for a difficult
time when you sell the house.

Jim

Bob wrote:
Are those Code Check books worth the money?

"Speedy Jim" wrote in message
et...

dave wrote:

I'm starting a project to finish my basement and my cold air return
runs across my floor joists from one end of the house to the other -
front to back. It passes in front of three basement windows and dips
under the basement stair landing on the way. My question - one I'm too
intimidated to post on that nasty HVAC site - is whether or not it is
feasible to just put my cold air return in the basement near the
furnace in order to eliminate all the ductwork. I normally wouldn't
consider this, but since I am finishing the basement and will keep it
the same temp as the rest of the house, I thought it might even help
circulate the air throughout the house. In addition, I am installing
radiant heat flooring in my kitchen, which is where the cold air return
is now. Right now, I have about 40 feet of duct work for one return in
my kitchen. Thanks for your help.


That's poor practice. It means the basement door
must be kept open for all the return flow (I'm guessing)

Also, Codes no longer permit the return opening
near the furnace (or other burners).
See:
http://www.codecheck.com/pg19_20mechanical.html#ducts
Fig. m5

Your local Code may be even more restrictive.
You might not care, but it can make for a difficult
time when you sell the house.

Jim


I don't currently own the book, but the scope of the
articles covered is impressive and the explanations are clear.
Anyone who has to deal with inspectors regularly should
look into it.
Jim

Depending on the type and design of your heater, you may also need to be
concerned with fumes. After the burner shuts down, residual heat and fumes
can sometimes be drawn back down through the heat exchanger and into your
duct work system.

"dave" wrote in message
ups.com...
Thanks for the advice. I'm less concerned about code than I am the
efficiency and safety of the system. What if there is a wall separating
the burners from the return - even though its only three feet of duct?
I am losing my basement door altogether. Are there any alternatives?
Maybe I can redirect the cold air return to my living room at front of
house? Again, thanks

NO. improper, unsafe, maybe radon, inefficient and expensive to heat
cold basement air and send it thru the furnaace to be heated to the
house.
before you start your basement:
http://www.buildingscience.com/resou...r_basement.pdf