Hi All,

Fridge - Kenmore/GE 12 years old. Freezer on top.

My fridge was acting strange temp-wise, so I pulled the panel in the freezer
and found the coil all frosted up. Defrosted it.

Now to the problem, as to why it happened. Pulled the defrost timer and
found one crimped wire a bit loose. Soldered it.
Did continuity test on the defrost heater - OK. The defrost thermostat
contact was open, which was at 60deg - OK too.
Put it all back together. Fridge works, but...

After about a 24hr run, I'd like to verify that the defrost works. The
timer motor is turning, I can see that with the control cover off. But can
I really tell if the defrost heater is working? Should the back panel in
the freezer be warmer? This would verify the whole ckt.

RichK

RichK wrote:
Hi All,

Fridge - Kenmore/GE 12 years old. Freezer on top.

My fridge was acting strange temp-wise, so I pulled the panel in the freezer
and found the coil all frosted up. Defrosted it.

Now to the problem, as to why it happened. Pulled the defrost timer and
found one crimped wire a bit loose. Soldered it.
Did continuity test on the defrost heater - OK. The defrost thermostat
contact was open, which was at 60deg - OK too.
Put it all back together. Fridge works, but...

After about a 24hr run, I'd like to verify that the defrost works. The
timer motor is turning, I can see that with the control cover off. But can
I really tell if the defrost heater is working? Should the back panel in
the freezer be warmer? This would verify the whole ckt.

RichK



A clamp-on ammeter on the switched lead from the defrost timer to the
heater ought to tell you.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

Of course, the defrost lead will only be drawing amperage if the bimetal is
cold enough. But, that confuses things.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...
RichK wrote:
Hi All,

Fridge - Kenmore/GE 12 years old. Freezer on top.

My fridge was acting strange temp-wise, so I pulled the panel in the
freezer
and found the coil all frosted up. Defrosted it.

Now to the problem, as to why it happened. Pulled the defrost timer and
found one crimped wire a bit loose. Soldered it.
Did continuity test on the defrost heater - OK. The defrost thermostat
contact was open, which was at 60deg - OK too.
Put it all back together. Fridge works, but...

After about a 24hr run, I'd like to verify that the defrost works. The
timer motor is turning, I can see that with the control cover off. But
can
I really tell if the defrost heater is working? Should the back panel in
the freezer be warmer? This would verify the whole ckt.

RichK



A clamp-on ammeter on the switched lead from the defrost timer to the
heater ought to tell you.

HTH,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"Stormin Mormon"

Of course, the defrost lead will only be drawing amperage if the bimetal
is
cold enough. But, that confuses things.

I have thought about the clamp on meter, after I posted it. Tried to feel
the plastic cover in the freezer, but it's not good enough indication. It
seems that the bottom of the back panel is a bit warmer, which is where the
heater is.

Why do you say that it confues things? It seems like the only good test, I
can think of.

Rich

RichK wrote:
"Stormin Mormon"


Of course, the defrost lead will only be drawing amperage if the bimetal

is

cold enough. But, that confuses things.


I have thought about the clamp on meter, after I posted it. Tried to feel
the plastic cover in the freezer, but it's not good enough indication. It
seems that the bottom of the back panel is a bit warmer, which is where the
heater is.

Why do you say that it confues things? It seems like the only good test, I
can think of.

Rich



It *should* work, particularly if you have one of the motor driven
defrost timers which has a manual knob on it which allows you to advance
the timer by hand so that you don't have to stay there for a day
watching the meter waiting for the defrost time to come up. G.

I suppose if you were anal enough about it you could use a slow speed
chart recorder to plot the output from a current transformer placed on
that lead to see that current comes on periodically and stays on until
the thermostat ("bimetal") senses that the evaporator area isn't ice
cold anymore and opens the circuit.

Jeff (Don't take me seriously please.)

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"Jeff Wisnia"


It *should* work, particularly if you have one of the motor driven
defrost timers which has a manual knob on it which allows you to advance
the timer by hand so that you don't have to stay there for a day
watching the meter waiting for the defrost time to come up. G.

There are some clear advantages to old tech designgs. The timer can be
advanced using a screwdriver to rotate the cam operating the contacts.

I suppose if you were anal enough about it you could use a slow speed
chart recorder to plot the output from a current transformer placed on
that lead to see that current comes on periodically and stays on until
the thermostat ("bimetal") senses that the evaporator area isn't ice
cold anymore and opens the circuit.

No I did not take this part seriously :-) Don't have a chart recorder :-)
But was going to ask, if anyone has seen something in that line. I'd like
to record somehow, the total time an appliance runs in 24hrs - say the
refrigerator in question. Of course you can sit through several cycles with
a stopwatch and record the times.

Rich

RichK wrote:

Hi All,

Fridge - Kenmore/GE 12 years old. Freezer on top.

My fridge was acting strange temp-wise, so I pulled the panel in the freezer
and found the coil all frosted up. Defrosted it.

Now to the problem, as to why it happened. Pulled the defrost timer and
found one crimped wire a bit loose. Soldered it.
Did continuity test on the defrost heater - OK. The defrost thermostat
contact was open, which was at 60deg - OK too.
Put it all back together. Fridge works, but...

After about a 24hr run, I'd like to verify that the defrost works. The
timer motor is turning, I can see that with the control cover off. But can
I really tell if the defrost heater is working? Should the back panel in
the freezer be warmer? This would verify the whole ckt. RichK


They are easy to check out. If it is your fridge, let it run a few hours
and while the fridge is running advance the timer until it clicks into
defrost mode.
The evaporator fan should stop, wait a few minutes and open the freezer
door and feel where the heater coil is located, it should be warm.
You will usually get a clear indication that the element is heating.

If it isn't heating immediately unplug the fridge and check for
continuity through the defrost termination thermostat circuit, it should
be closed, if not and all the other circuits test okay, replace the
defrost TH with one of the same termination temp. Check out the wiring
diagram and schematic for check points.
- udarrell

--
PROPER A/C UNIT & DUCT SIZING ESSENTIAL for EFFICIENCY & BTUH PERFORMANCE
http://www.udarrell.com/proper_cfm_b...syste ms.html

RichK wrote:
"Jeff Wisnia"


It *should* work, particularly if you have one of the motor driven
defrost timers which has a manual knob on it which allows you to advance
the timer by hand so that you don't have to stay there for a day
watching the meter waiting for the defrost time to come up. G.


There are some clear advantages to old tech designgs. The timer can be
advanced using a screwdriver to rotate the cam operating the contacts.


I suppose if you were anal enough about it you could use a slow speed
chart recorder to plot the output from a current transformer placed on
that lead to see that current comes on periodically and stays on until
the thermostat ("bimetal") senses that the evaporator area isn't ice
cold anymore and opens the circuit.


No I did not take this part seriously :-) Don't have a chart recorder :-)
But was going to ask, if anyone has seen something in that line. I'd like
to record somehow, the total time an appliance runs in 24hrs - say the
refrigerator in question. Of course you can sit through several cycles with
a stopwatch and record the times.

Rich



There's an easy way to do that if you can get across the main load, like
the compressor motor in a fridge.

Just wire an old fashioned electric clock across it, the kind with a
synchronous motor. Set the clock's hands at midnite and.....You can
figger out the rest...

Happy Holidays,

Jeff



--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"udarrell"


They are easy to check out. If it is your fridge, let it run a few hours
and while the fridge is running advance the timer until it clicks into
defrost mode.
The evaporator fan should stop, wait a few minutes and open the freezer
door and feel where the heater coil is located, it should be warm.
You will usually get a clear indication that the element is heating.

You are right. The key here is to feel the heater area, soon after you
force the defrost cycle. I could feel that part of the of panel warmer in
the freezer. I also measured the current - it was 4A.

Left the defrost cycle on for a while and the thermostat must have worked,
as the panel got cool again. I probably would have cycled ON/OFF during the
40min (spec) that the cycle runs.

I later measured the run current of the compressor in the same place in a
circuit (a common leg) and to my surprise it was only 2A. Is this about
right?

The compressor spec (from sheet on the back of fridge) is 1092 BTU/hr.
Monthly energy consumption listed at 80 KWH.with 20-30% run time at 70F.

Rich

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 15:03:47 -0500, Jeff Wisnia
wrote:

RichK wrote:
Hi All,

Fridge - Kenmore/GE 12 years old. Freezer on top.

My fridge was acting strange temp-wise, so I pulled the panel in the freezer
and found the coil all frosted up. Defrosted it.

Now to the problem, as to why it happened. Pulled the defrost timer and
found one crimped wire a bit loose. Soldered it.
Did continuity test on the defrost heater - OK. The defrost thermostat
contact was open, which was at 60deg - OK too.
Put it all back together. Fridge works, but...

After about a 24hr run, I'd like to verify that the defrost works. The
timer motor is turning, I can see that with the control cover off. But can
I really tell if the defrost heater is working? Should the back panel in
the freezer be warmer? This would verify the whole ckt.

RichK



A clamp-on ammeter on the switched lead from the defrost timer to the
heater ought to tell you.

Doesn't this thing have slide on connectors? Why not putting the
ammeter right in the circuit? Most people don't have a clamp-on.

HTH,

Jeff


Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

"mm" wrote in message

Doesn't this thing have slide on connectors? Why not putting the
ammeter right in the circuit? Most people don't have a clamp-on.

Actually, you're right. There's a connector that plugs onto the timer and
another one near the Temp Control. Could have allowed the freezer to cool
and close the defrost thermo, then checked continuity of the whole ckt
downstream from that plug.

As it is, I had a clamp-on attachment for a multimeter and this was an
excuse to use it. Also made me aware how much current is used.

Rich

This is Turtle.

first the 40 minute cycle you speak of is new to me for the longest
defrost cycle time that i have ever hear of is the 31 minute every 8
hours , but most are the 25 minute every 6 hours.

now if the defrost circuit is pulling 4 amps in defrost cycle. it is
running and pulling the right amps. if it is pulling 4 amps your heater
is running. Your good there.

most Refrigerator these days will pull 1.5 amps to 3.5 amps and most
regular refrigerator will pull between 1.5 and 2.5 amps. So your 2 amps
seem just about right.

now in your other post you spoke of a loose spade connection and not a
broken connection. Was this connection broken enough to say it could
break the power to that section or not ? we are looking for a cause for
the defrost system to stop and have not found one yet. So now your
going to have to watch it and try to determine the cause of the defrost
system to stop working. here is a list item or causes that would stop
the defrost system from working.

Defrost time just hang up and stop running.

Malfuctioning Defrost terminator hanging up and sometime works or other
times not work.

Defrost elements is defective or loose connection at the tie in at the
elements for the wire to connect.

=============================================

Now what i have heard so far it is working good now but if it messes up
it will not show up as a problem for 7 to 14 days and you will see it
freeze up again. now this might be the best cource of action here
because of tring to do all the testing to see a refrigerator running
good. wait 14 days to see if it screws up again.

=============================================

Now here is what I think and really off the record here. I think the
defrost timer stop on you and when you moved it it unstuck it and went
back to working. If it is frose up the heater will most of the time
will not be enough to do a total recovery from the start of it all
froze up.

TURTLE

On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 22:54:02 -0500, "RichK" wrote:


As it is, I had a clamp-on attachment for a multimeter and this was an
excuse to use it

I understand that fully, and do the same thing.

.. Also made me aware how much current is used.

Rich



Remove NOPSAM to email me. Please let
me know if you have posted also.

Hi Turtle,

Thanks for confirming my measurements!

"TURTLE" wrote in message

first the 40 minute cycle you speak of is new to me for the longest
defrost cycle time that i have ever hear of is the 31 minute every 8
hours , but most are the 25 minute every 6 hours.

I have not measured the defrost cycle. I'm quoting from the wiring diagram
and info that was on the back of the fridge. It states: Defrost Control 12
hrs. @ 40 min. Defrost Thermostat 60-28degF.
But it was at least 30 min, just from what I remember.

now if the defrost circuit is pulling 4 amps in defrost cycle. it is
running and pulling the right amps. if it is pulling 4 amps your heater
is running. Your good there.

OK.

most Refrigerator these days will pull 1.5 amps to 3.5 amps and most
regular refrigerator will pull between 1.5 and 2.5 amps. So your 2 amps
seem just about right.
OK

now in your other post you spoke of a loose spade connection and not a
broken connection. Was this connection broken enough to say it could
break the power to that section or not ?

The "loose spade" I found was the power to the timer coil. There's a "post"
wire, which is crimped to the spade connector. It is that crimp that was
loose. The timer motor wires are like human hair and are wrapped and
soldered to that "post wire".

I found the loose connection as I was measuring timer motor resistance. The
measurement was varying, due to the post moving.

FWIW, I also found a spot on the plastic timer cam, where there was some
melting of plastic. Suspect the motor stopped and contacts did not break
cleanly and perhaps "cooked" for a while.
I cleaned up the cam and put it back in. Cleaned up the contacts in the
timer. They break the full load of the compressor, which is about 2A as
you've confirmed.

=============================================

Now what i have heard so far it is working good now but if it messes up
it will not show up as a problem for 7 to 14 days and you will see it
freeze up again. now this might be the best cource of action here
because of tring to do all the testing to see a refrigerator running
good. wait 14 days to see if it screws up again.

=============================================

Will watch for a while. After a few days, I will pull the panel in the
freezer and see how much frost has accumulated on the coil, if any.

Now here is what I think and really off the record here. I think the
defrost timer stop on you and when you moved it it unstuck it and went
back to working. If it is frose up the heater will most of the time
will not be enough to do a total recovery from the start of it all
froze up.

You got it! I wrote that above.

Thanks for your help. I've been able to troubleshoot several things in the
house, thanks to the help from this Group.

Regards,

Rich

Three easy ways to tell if it is working.
1. put it in the defrost cycle and look at the heater, it will turn red.
Even the metal heaters turn red.
2. Wait for the defrosting to begin. You'll hear the water dripping on the
heater, water should show up in the drip pan.
3. Put it into defrost and put the plug in and out of the wall outlet. If
it's working you'll see a pretty good spark.








"RichK" wrote in message
news
Hi All,

Fridge - Kenmore/GE 12 years old. Freezer on top.

My fridge was acting strange temp-wise, so I pulled the panel in the
freezer
and found the coil all frosted up. Defrosted it.

Now to the problem, as to why it happened. Pulled the defrost timer and
found one crimped wire a bit loose. Soldered it.
Did continuity test on the defrost heater - OK. The defrost thermostat
contact was open, which was at 60deg - OK too.
Put it all back together. Fridge works, but...

After about a 24hr run, I'd like to verify that the defrost works. The
timer motor is turning, I can see that with the control cover off. But
can
I really tell if the defrost heater is working? Should the back panel in
the freezer be warmer? This would verify the whole ckt.

RichK

This is Turtle.

There is one thing i left out. In the refrigerator service business
there is a old rule that says if there is a dought as to what the
problem was with the defrost system. As a rule you change the defrost
timer and move on.

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
oups.com...
This is Turtle.

There is one thing i left out. In the refrigerator service business
there is a old rule that says if there is a dought as to what the
problem was with the defrost system. As a rule you change the defrost
timer and move on.

TURTLE

And with the refrigeration techs that know what they are doing, they find
out whats wrong and dont throw parts at it.....

Guess your daddy was a parts changer. Like Father......

"TURTLE" wrote

There is one thing i left out. In the refrigerator service business
there is a old rule that says if there is a dought as to what the
problem was with the defrost system. As a rule you change the defrost
timer and move on.

TURTLE

That's not the rule for me. It's a pretty simple diagnosis. Heater, limit
switch, timer.
Even the newer adaptive defrost models with electronic controls are easy to
figure out.

I would not like changing a timer only to get called back.

CBHVAC wrote:
"TURTLE" wrote in message
oups.com...
This is Turtle.

There is one thing i left out. In the refrigerator service business
there is a old rule that says if there is a dought as to what the
problem was with the defrost system. As a rule you change the defrost
timer and move on.

TURTLE

And with the refrigeration techs that know what they are doing, they find
out whats wrong and dont throw parts at it.....

Guess your daddy was a parts changer. Like Father......


This is Turtle.

I see you have never worked on refrigerators and dealt with the problem
of the refrigerator defrost systems.

OH and the Refigerator Super tech like Sears has that works on these
refrigerators. They are told the system it too complext to work on and
here is what to do. If it is out of the 5 years warranty -- Call the
compressor bad. If it is under warranty -- call back and we will send
out our warranty tech to see about it. The Warranty tech is to just
doctor it up to get to the 5 year warranty limit so they can walk out
on it. If he fails they just wait till the customer sues them and if
not they are off the hook. If the sue, they just replace it. I was told
that 10% of the customer will sue and 90% will not sue the company.

I can just picture CB scratching his head at a Electronic Dual control
side by side refrigerator with flipper door for the cooler area
temperature control. Now bull**** don't walk here you have to know what
is the problem.

HVAC sales must be poor to see you here so much.

TURTLE

Ed wrote:
"TURTLE" wrote

There is one thing i left out. In the refrigerator service business
there is a old rule that says if there is a dought as to what the
problem was with the defrost system. As a rule you change the defrost
timer and move on.

TURTLE

That's not the rule for me. It's a pretty simple diagnosis. Heater, limit
switch, timer.
Even the newer adaptive defrost models with electronic controls are easy to
figure out.

I would not like changing a timer only to get called back.

this is TRurtle.

first These words was not written when they had electrinic controls,
but on standard block timers.

Second You don't need to spend about 6 to 8 hours at the refrigerator
customers house and change him about $500.00 on a $500.00 refrigerator
to hunt down a defrost problem. You ohn out to see the defront
terminator it ok, then you ohm out the defrost element is ok, and then
see if the defrost timer is running. Now Ed , you do all the test you
can do on this refrigerator and still find nothing wrong . Now What do
you do ?

Thirdly the words that i stated was the old time refrigerator service
people [ not me ] who have workied on these refrigerator all thier
lives and have this as a rule of their business. I was told this by all
the refrigerator service people eversince i was a kid [ 40 something
years ] when you can't find a problem with the defrost system -- change
the defrost timer. Also sears tells their tech this same words when
they can't find anything wrong with the defrost system -- change the
defrost timer.

Fourth No disrespect at all but these words have been carried down the
through the years and is still used in the refrigerator business today.
Now what i think here. On the old stuff i would say yes , but on the
new stuff NO, Sorry if my opinion differes from your !

TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote in message
oups.com...

CBHVAC wrote:
"TURTLE" wrote in message
oups.com...
This is Turtle.

There is one thing i left out. In the refrigerator service business
there is a old rule that says if there is a dought as to what the
problem was with the defrost system. As a rule you change the defrost
timer and move on.

TURTLE

And with the refrigeration techs that know what they are doing, they find
out whats wrong and dont throw parts at it.....

Guess your daddy was a parts changer. Like Father......


This is Turtle.

I see you have never worked on refrigerators and dealt with the problem
of the refrigerator defrost systems.

Nah...never....just 5 commercial accounts with an average of 6 units in each
one..
Plus god knows how many more that were referals over the years...



OH and the Refigerator Super tech like Sears has that works on these
refrigerators. They are told the system it too complext to work on and
here is what to do. If it is out of the 5 years warranty -- Call the
compressor bad. If it is under warranty -- call back and we will send
out our warranty tech to see about it. The Warranty tech is to just
doctor it up to get to the 5 year warranty limit so they can walk out
on it. If he fails they just wait till the customer sues them and if
not they are off the hook. If the sue, they just replace it. I was told
that 10% of the customer will sue and 90% will not sue the company.

Im not ****ing Sears. If you base your repairs on what some funky does, then
you are as bad.



I can just picture CB scratching his head at a Electronic Dual control
side by side refrigerator with flipper door for the cooler area
temperature control. Now bull**** don't walk here you have to know what
is the problem.

Or how about the units with a vac switch that lets it know that the doors
been shut, and the unit can start back up again? Seen those Terry? Ever try
to figure out a side by side reach in that wont start but yet, everythings
fine?....

HVAC sales must be poor to see you here so much.

As a one man band, I dont expect you to know a thing about how to manage
time with other crews out working...and truth be known, new installs are now
being scheduled for MARCH.
Sales are up quite a bit...but then, again, I dont expect you to know much
about that, being that you, as a one man band after all this time, cant
sell, repair, install, diagnose, etc, but one at a time, while we have crews
out that can do all that at the same time../.while I sit here and
go...wow...amazing how business has gone up this year and we are not working
any harder.

Oh...now.....excuse me, cause its Christmas and I gave most of the guys the
day off, its after 12 noon, and I have a duct system to go install so that
tomorrow, all the guys have to do it run a lineset and gas pipe.
You DO know what a duct system is dont you Terry? Its those round hollow
things that you have to wrap with duct insulation.


TURTLE

"TURTLE" wrote

Now Ed , you do all the test you
can do on this refrigerator and still find nothing wrong . Now What do
you do ?

Go back to school and learn how to do the tests. If you do them and find
nothing wrong, you did them wrong.

Thirdly the words that i stated was the old time refrigerator service
people [ not me ] who have workied on these refrigerator all thier
lives and have this as a rule of their business.

I have been doing it for 31 years, never heard that rule.

I was told this by all
the refrigerator service people eversince i was a kid [ 40 something
years ] when you can't find a problem with the defrost system -- change
the defrost timer. Also sears tells their tech this same words when
they can't find anything wrong with the defrost system -- change the
defrost timer.

It's wrong, I don't care who says to do it.

Fourth No disrespect at all but these words have been carried down the
through the years and is still used in the refrigerator business today.

Not anywhere I know.

Now what i think here. On the old stuff i would say yes , but on the
new stuff NO, Sorry if my opinion differes from your !

No problem.

Ed wrote:
"TURTLE" wrote

Now Ed , you do all the test you
can do on this refrigerator and still find nothing wrong . Now What do
you do ?

Go back to school and learn how to do the tests. If you do them and find
nothing wrong, you did them wrong.


This is Turtle.

now Ed , your going to tell me that as you say you have worked on
refrigerators for 31 years and never seen a defrost timer jam and
before you get there or when you get there it the timer goes back to
working before you see it. when you get there the coil is frozen up ,
defrost timer is running, defrost terminator is closed, and the defrost
element has no breaks or defects. at this time you can run all the test
you want on the box and it will show no problem.

Now explain to me this problem as to what you would do ? Is there a
test to see if the timer just jammed or stopped and went back to
running or how to you handle this problem ? what you explain to me can
be useful to me in my business and this is not a joke or cheap shot. i
know most all about what you will explain here so just get a little
complex if you like.

TURTLE

RichK wrote:
Hi All,

Fridge - Kenmore/GE 12 years old. Freezer on top.

My fridge was acting strange temp-wise, so I pulled the panel in the freezer
and found the coil all frosted up. Defrosted it.

Now to the problem, as to why it happened. Pulled the defrost timer and
found one crimped wire a bit loose. Soldered it.
Did continuity test on the defrost heater - OK. The defrost thermostat
contact was open, which was at 60deg - OK too.
Put it all back together. Fridge works, but...

After about a 24hr run, I'd like to verify that the defrost works. The
timer motor is turning, I can see that with the control cover off. But can
I really tell if the defrost heater is working? Should the back panel in
the freezer be warmer? This would verify the whole ckt.

RichK


Hi,
If the contacts on the timer is badly pitted, just replace it for peace
of mind.
Tony

"Tony Hwang"

If the contacts on the timer is badly pitted, just replace it for peace
of mind.
Tony

The contacts were pitted, but no more than nay other relay contacts I have
seen. Smoothed them with a small file for now. There was still a fair
amount of contact material left.

I know that some relay contacts in the higher rating are made of
silver-cadmium oxide, which is closer to the surface. Once the cad-oxide is
worn, the contacts wear out much faster.

Since this is my own fridge, I can take the risk and keep that timer working
for longer. For now it's fine. If I were doing it for someone else, I'd
replace the timer.

Rich

replying to CBHVAC, reality calls wrote:
these modern refrigerators are half bull****. a defrost timer and defrost
thermostat, should be EASILY ACCESSIBLE on the inside of the food/freezer
compartment, or on the outside. not buried behind all the shelves and back
covers, requiring taking all the food out, and putting it in a cooler, to work
on it. BAD DESIGN CALLED on all modern appliances that don't have easy access
to these critical controls.
#2, dust blocks the condenser coils- BAD DESIGN CALLED AGAIN- a filter that is
easy to clean or change, is needed, just like an AIR CONDITIONER has ?? WTF
designed these appliances ? dumb idiots ?
nothing worse then working on the back end w/compressor, start components, and
the damned thing goes into DEFROST MODE, and you have to sit for 15 minutes
waiting for it to finish, just to continue troubleshooting the first problem-
OR take all the food out and put it on ice- this is total BULL****. if I
owned an appliance company and my engineers put forth such a design, I'd
threaten to fire them- and they'd deserve it.
it's like designing a car radio without a volume knob for cripes sakes. what
morons invented this stuff ?
an old wooden frig with a block of ice worked better. one thing went wrong-
the ice melted eventually. big deal, put another block of ice in.

--
posted from
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using HomeOwnersHub's Web, Mobile and Social Media Interface to
alt.home.repair and other home improvement groups

On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 20:44:01 +0000, reality calls wrote:

replying to CBHVAC, reality calls wrote:
these modern refrigerators are half bull****. a defrost timer and defrost
thermostat, should be EASILY ACCESSIBLE on the inside of the food/freezer
compartment, or on the outside. not buried behind all the shelves and back
covers, requiring taking all the food out, and putting it in a cooler, to work
on it. BAD DESIGN CALLED on all modern appliances that don't have easy access
to these critical controls.
#2, dust blocks the condenser coils- BAD DESIGN CALLED AGAIN- a filter that is
easy to clean or change, is needed, just like an AIR CONDITIONER has ?? WTF
designed these appliances ? dumb idiots ?
nothing worse then working on the back end w/compressor, start components, and
the damned thing goes into DEFROST MODE, and you have to sit for 15 minutes
waiting for it to finish, just to continue troubleshooting the first problem-
OR take all the food out and put it on ice- this is total BULL****. if I
owned an appliance company and my engineers put forth such a design, I'd
threaten to fire them- and they'd deserve it.
it's like designing a car radio without a volume knob for cripes sakes. what
morons invented this stuff ?
an old wooden frig with a block of ice worked better. one thing went wrong-
the ice melted eventually. big deal, put another block of ice in.

I think you need to be less eager to call others morons.
The message you're replying to is well over a decade old... moron!

On 3/25/2016 12:56 AM, Gordon Shumway wrote:
On Thu, 24 Mar 2016 20:44:01 +0000, reality calls wrote:

replying to CBHVAC, reality calls wrote:
it's like designing a car radio without a volume knob for cripes sakes. what
morons invented this stuff ?
an old wooden frig with a block of ice worked better. one thing went wrong-
the ice melted eventually. big deal, put another block of ice in.

I think you need to be less eager to call others morons.
The message you're replying to is well over a decade old... moron!


Example dot com .... web portal user. Not even
a real usenet post.

--
..
Christopher A. Young
learn more about Jesus
.. www.lds.org
..
..

replying to Gordon Shumway, dumb Gordon Shumway wrote:
the Bible is 2000+ years old too....your point ?
you DUMMY- to build a database, you KEEP ALL HISTORICAL POSTS
you dumb arse, since when do you DELETE and forget a growing database ?
the hydrogen bomb is 65 years old too...you don't see the USA throwing the
formula away
and gunpowder/firearms technology is how old ? they still use those today by
the police, right ?
the airplane was invented in early 1900's- did we stop flying those ?
you need to take the narrow blinders off. replying to the post means nothing-
we're BUILDING A DATABASE here
for everyone to refer to later
whether or not a previous poster reads it, is irrelevant
YOU DUMB arse !!

--
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using HomeOwnersHub's Web, Mobile and Social Media Interface to
alt.home.repair and other home improvement groups

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 19:44:01 +0000, dumb Gordon Shumway
wrote:

YOU DUMB arse !!

posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...est-72409-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, Mobile and Social Media Interface to
alt.home.repair and other home improvement groups

The irony meter JUST pegged out, ( ..../ )

Gordon is smarter than you foreigners.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:58:04 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 19:44:01 +0000, dumb Gordon Shumway
m wrote:

YOU DUMB arse !!

posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...est-72409-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, Mobile and Social Media Interface to
alt.home.repair and other home improvement groups

The irony meter JUST pegged out, ( ..../ )

Gordon is smarter than you foreigners.

Hey, Oren, now I have a fan too! I finally made it to the big time.

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 20:39:42 -0500, Gordon Shumway
wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 12:58:04 -0700, Oren wrote:

On Fri, 25 Mar 2016 19:44:01 +0000, dumb Gordon Shumway
om wrote:

YOU DUMB arse !!

posted from
http://www.homeownershub.com/mainten...est-72409-.htm
using HomeOwnersHub's Web, Mobile and Social Media Interface to
alt.home.repair and other home improvement groups

The irony meter JUST pegged out, ( ..../ )

Gordon is smarter than you foreigners.

Hey, Oren, now I have a fan too! I finally made it to the big time.

Chuckle. I've ****ed off more people in my life than I can count.
Some people want to be like me....

"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something,
sometime in your life." Winston Churchill