I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

Phillip944 wrote:
The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

What are you using to heat the joint with? You'll need a propane torch
at a minimum.

Assuming you've got the right tool, it sounds like you've still got
water in the line. You'll need to drain it / blow it out with air in
order to heat the joint adequately to remove the elbow.

"Phillip944" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.


Hear are some question Is the water off? did you drain all the water out
of pipe? sometimes you can't get all the water out of the pipe, you will
never sweat it apart. Are you sure the solder is melting? if so try tapping
it apart with a hammer handle GENTLY. Sometimes you have to just cut the
pipe add two couplings and an elbow.( you will need a little pipe). If you
do get the elbow off place it on a concrete floor take the same hammer you
tapped the fitting off with turn it around and flatten the old elbow, Then
go buy a new one trust me.

In article .com,
Phillip944 wrote:
I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

Did you shut the water off and drain the pipe?

What are you using for heat? A bernz-a-matic torch with the standard
(blue) gas cylinders will just barely heat 1/2 inch copper enough for
soldering. Any larger pipe, you need mapp (yellow) gas cylinders.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

I agree that there is probably some water left in the pipe. If
you are replacing it anyway, drill or cut a small hole in the
elbow to let water and steam out.

Before you ever attempt it on the real piping, I would suggest the
following:
Go to the store to buy the new elbow you need. Get the solder,
sand paper, flux, and torch that you will need. Get a tubing
cutter also if you need one.

Buy an extra elbow or tee and the shortest piece of copper pipe
they will sell.

Sand the inside of the elbow. Sand the outside of the end of the
pipe. Flux both pieces. Assemble. Sweat together with the torch
and solder. Make sure the pieces are on a brick or some fire safe
surface - NOT the concrete floor. Apply heat to the joint. Keep
the end of the solder touching the copper - you may melt off
several drips. You need to find out and know when the copper is
just barely hot enough to draw the solder. It is possible to get
the copper too hot and not be able to make a joint, but you need
to know the lowest temperature that will work - you can get quite
a bit hotter, but you don't want to get it too hot. Once the
joint starts to draw the solder, remove the heat and continue to
apply the solder until the joint is too cool to melt solder. You
have now put a joint together. Now take it apart!!!! you have
control of all the variables. You have dry pipe, clean copper,
fresh solder, and no tension on the joint. You will need to have
a vise or some way to hold the assembled joint (put your foot on
it if you won't burn yourself). You will need to get the joint
hot enough to melt the solder. Use a pliers to pull the fitting
off the pipe. You will now have reasonable experience of all
that is involved.

Go forth and conquer.
to melt the solder that is holding the joint



(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Phillip944" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So,
to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then
replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing
happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the
cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

"Phillip944" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

I don't disagree with anything said, but...
Frequently it is easier to just cut the old crap out and solder a new
section in. Resoldering old parts can be very frustrating.
Since you can't get it apart anyhow...
but... unless you actually have water running in the pipe, MAP will get hot
enough even with a little residual water.

Phillip944 wrote:

I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

I'd cut it off. BTW, make sure you buy lead-free plumbing solder and
some plumber's flux for the re-installation.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:18 GMT, CJT wrote:

Phillip944 wrote:

I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

I'd cut it off. BTW, make sure you buy lead-free plumbing solder and
some plumber's flux for the re-installation.

If you'd cut it off, your last name must be Bobbitt !!!

OUCH !!!!

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:50:48 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:18 GMT, CJT wrote:

Phillip944 wrote:

I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

I'd cut it off. BTW, make sure you buy lead-free plumbing solder and
some plumber's flux for the re-installation.

If you'd cut it off, your last name must be Bobbitt !!!

OUCH !!!!

Let me get this straight. You want to do your own plumbing yet you
cant even figure out how to unsolder an elbow? If you cant figure that
out, how on earth do you think you are going to get it back together
correctly? Here is a simple clue:
It is a WATER pipe. I wonder what is in it?
Bubba

Rich Greenberg wrote:

In article .com,
Phillip944 wrote:
I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

Did you shut the water off and drain the pipe?

What are you using for heat? A bernz-a-matic torch with the standard
(blue) gas cylinders will just barely heat 1/2 inch copper enough for
soldering. Any larger pipe, you need mapp (yellow) gas cylinders.



I second that - after using propane for years, I finally switched to
MAPP gas and it was truly a revelation.

Phillip944 wrote:

I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.


Even with no water in the pipes and adequate heat you will occasionally
run into joints which are locked up "tighter than a bull's ass in fly
season" due to intermetallic componds which have formed in the soldered
areas. If you can "twist" the heated joint you sometimes hear a
screetching noise when they turn, and with enough rocking back and forth
while pulling the joint apart they'll finally come loose.

I agree that sometimes it's better to just give up and cut out the
fitting, then solder in whatever new parts are needed to get things back
as you want them.

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia

(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)

"Truth exists; only falsehood has to be invented."

"Bubba" ReMoVe wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:50:48 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:18 GMT, CJT wrote:

Phillip944 wrote:

I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

I'd cut it off. BTW, make sure you buy lead-free plumbing solder and
some plumber's flux for the re-installation.

If you'd cut it off, your last name must be Bobbitt !!!

OUCH !!!!

Let me get this straight. You want to do your own plumbing yet you
cant even figure out how to unsolder an elbow? If you cant figure that
out, how on earth do you think you are going to get it back together
correctly? Here is a simple clue:
It is a WATER pipe. I wonder what is in it?
Bubba

Aw, give him a break. We all had to learn some time or other. First time I
did a solder job I had to learn a few things. First time I replaced
distributor points in a car engine it took me two hours to get it running
again. After I figured out just what I was doing and why I could eyeball
them

"Rich256" wrote in message
...

"Bubba" ReMoVe wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 16:50:48 -0600, wrote:

On Sun, 11 Dec 2005 21:51:18 GMT, CJT wrote:

Phillip944 wrote:

I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

I'd cut it off. BTW, make sure you buy lead-free plumbing solder and
some plumber's flux for the re-installation.

If you'd cut it off, your last name must be Bobbitt !!!

OUCH !!!!

Let me get this straight. You want to do your own plumbing yet you
cant even figure out how to unsolder an elbow? If you cant figure that
out, how on earth do you think you are going to get it back together
correctly? Here is a simple clue:
It is a WATER pipe. I wonder what is in it?
Bubba

Aw, give him a break. We all had to learn some time or other. First time
I
did a solder job I had to learn a few things. First time I replaced
distributor points in a car engine it took me two hours to get it running
again. After I figured out just what I was doing and why I could eyeball
them


And then there was the time when a tiny amount of water kept me from getting
the joint hot. I guess about that time someone pointed out the old plumbers
trick of stuffing some bread into the pipe to absorb the water.

And then there was the time when a tiny amount of water kept me from
getting the joint hot. I guess about that time someone pointed out
the old plumbers trick of stuffing some bread into the pipe to absorb
the water.

You can't even burn a hole in a dixie cup if there is water on the other
side of the cardboard. I used to use a straw and such to get the water out
of the pipe before soldering it, but finally I discovered an auto-supply
gizmo used to take the acid out of a battery. It is a big squeeze-ball with
a narrow tube, and fits into the pipe to get that water out of there,
without even wondering where the bread goes. ;-)

"Bert Byfield" wrote in message
5...
And then there was the time when a tiny amount of water kept me from
getting the joint hot. I guess about that time someone pointed out
the old plumbers trick of stuffing some bread into the pipe to absorb
the water.

You can't even burn a hole in a dixie cup if there is water on the other
side of the cardboard. I used to use a straw and such to get the water out
of the pipe before soldering it, but finally I discovered an auto-supply
gizmo used to take the acid out of a battery. It is a big squeeze-ball
with
a narrow tube, and fits into the pipe to get that water out of there,
without even wondering where the bread goes. ;-)



No problem with the bread. Just turn on the faucet and out it comes.
However, I suppose there might be some instances where you would not want it
flowing into the system. Maybe up line of a water softener or heater.

I just suspect the original post was having a problem such as that. One
drop of water vaporizing takes a lot of heat away.

Rich256 wrote:

"Bert Byfield" wrote in message
5...

And then there was the time when a tiny amount of water kept me from
getting the joint hot. I guess about that time someone pointed out
the old plumbers trick of stuffing some bread into the pipe to absorb
the water.

You can't even burn a hole in a dixie cup if there is water on the other
side of the cardboard. I used to use a straw and such to get the water out
of the pipe before soldering it, but finally I discovered an auto-supply
gizmo used to take the acid out of a battery. It is a big squeeze-ball

with

a narrow tube, and fits into the pipe to get that water out of there,
without even wondering where the bread goes. ;-)




No problem with the bread. Just turn on the faucet and out it comes.

Through the aerator? :-)

However, I suppose there might be some instances where you would not want it
flowing into the system. Maybe up line of a water softener or heater.

I just suspect the original post was having a problem such as that. One
drop of water vaporizing takes a lot of heat away.




--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"CJT" wrote in message
...
Rich256 wrote:

"Bert Byfield" wrote in message
5...

And then there was the time when a tiny amount of water kept me from
getting the joint hot. I guess about that time someone pointed out
the old plumbers trick of stuffing some bread into the pipe to absorb
the water.

You can't even burn a hole in a dixie cup if there is water on the other
side of the cardboard. I used to use a straw and such to get the water
out
of the pipe before soldering it, but finally I discovered an auto-supply
gizmo used to take the acid out of a battery. It is a big squeeze-ball

with

a narrow tube, and fits into the pipe to get that water out of there,
without even wondering where the bread goes. ;-)




No problem with the bread. Just turn on the faucet and out it comes.

Through the aerator? :-)


Yeah, I expect so. Don't put crust in the pipe. Still I would take it off.
No big deal if it did plug up.

I haven't seen this one (must be new), but the saddest thing in the
original is where he was shot at the end of the movie.

R

HeatMan wrote:

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
...

In article .com,
Phillip944 wrote:

I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

Did you shut the water off and drain the pipe?

What are you using for heat? A bernz-a-matic torch with the standard
(blue) gas cylinders will just barely heat 1/2 inch copper enough for
soldering. Any larger pipe, you need mapp (yellow) gas cylinders.



Wow.

I didn't know that. After all these years, I guess the 1 inch water lines I
use the propane to solder together are now bad.

Thanks.

VBG


I wondered about that, too, but thought maybe my experience was unusual.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message
...
In article .com,
Phillip944 wrote:
I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

Did you shut the water off and drain the pipe?

What are you using for heat? A bernz-a-matic torch with the standard
(blue) gas cylinders will just barely heat 1/2 inch copper enough for
soldering. Any larger pipe, you need mapp (yellow) gas cylinders.


Wow.

I didn't know that. After all these years, I guess the 1 inch water lines I
use the propane to solder together are now bad.

Thanks.

VBG

"Bob (but not THAT Bob)" wrote in message
...
Rich Greenberg wrote:

In article .com,
Phillip944 wrote:
I'll admit it... I've never soldered anything in my life. So, to
replace a corroded, leaky copper elbow joint, my father-in-law
instructed me to heat the pipe, pull off the old joint, then replace
it... after proper preparation, of course.

The problem is that I heated the old elbow, but nothing happened. I
heated the pipe & the elbow... nothing. Couldn't get it off.

Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, as I dread the cost of
having a plumber do what seems to be a simple replacement.

Did you shut the water off and drain the pipe?

What are you using for heat? A bernz-a-matic torch with the standard
(blue) gas cylinders will just barely heat 1/2 inch copper enough for
soldering. Any larger pipe, you need mapp (yellow) gas cylinders.



I second that - after using propane for years, I finally switched to
MAPP gas and it was truly a revelation.

I use a propane torch with an igniter head on it. I've done 1 inch pipe
with it for years.

According to CJT :
HeatMan wrote:

"Rich Greenberg" wrote in message

What are you using for heat? A bernz-a-matic torch with the standard
(blue) gas cylinders will just barely heat 1/2 inch copper enough for
soldering. Any larger pipe, you need mapp (yellow) gas cylinders.

I didn't know that. After all these years, I guess the 1 inch water lines I
use the propane to solder together are now bad.

VBG

I wondered about that, too, but thought maybe my experience was unusual.

Heh.

A MAPP (MPS) cylinder instead of propane indeed makes soldering pipe a
lot easier.

But, propane is still perfectly adequate for larger than 1/2" (at least
to 1") if you can visually establish that the solder is melting properly -
with proper technique, you don't get solder melting at all unless the
pipe gets hot enough to do the job right. Just takes longer.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

No problem with the bread. Just turn on the faucet and out it comes.
However, I suppose there might be some instances where you would not want it
flowing into the system. Maybe up line of a water softener or heater.

White bread good. Multi-grain Stone-ground bad.

I didn't know that. After all these years, I guess the 1 inch water lines I
use the propane to solder together are now bad.

Thanks.

VBG


I wondered about that, too, but thought maybe my experience was unusual.

It's what happens when you use a 1/2" pencil torch without realizing
that there's a 1 1/4" jumbo-torch head.