I am having a new kitchen installed & doing some of the (less complicated)
electrical work myself. (ie changing plugs & switches, installing GFI's,
etc) Let me take a moment to explain the setup:
Our old garbage disposer was set up on it's own, non GFI protected 15 amp
circuit with the switch under the sink. I figured it was safer to connect it
up to the 20amp (GFI protected) circuit around the sink & I also wanted to
connect it to a new wall switch in the wall for convenience. ( I realize
that, since the disposer now shares one of the kitchen circuits, that I'll
have to make sure that circuit isnt overloaded b4 I run the disposer...but
that shouldn't be a problem.) The outlet that the disposer now is powered by
is downstream of the GFCI box in the circuit & the new disposer switch is in
the same box as this outlet.
My question is this: The switch is a normal single pole switch with a
ground.......Do I need to connect the switch's ground terminal to a ground
in order for it (the switch & the disposer) to be protected by the GFCI?
(the outlet that it is connected to is properly grounded) There are so many
wires crammed into the box that I'm just trying to save myself some
work....If it will still be safe.
Thanks

"Dick" wrote in message
...
I am having a new kitchen installed & doing some of the (less complicated)
electrical work myself. (ie changing plugs & switches, installing GFI's,
etc) Let me take a moment to explain the setup:
Our old garbage disposer was set up on it's own, non GFI protected 15 amp
circuit with the switch under the sink. I figured it was safer to connect
it up to the 20amp (GFI protected) circuit around the sink & I also wanted
to connect it to a new wall switch in the wall for convenience. ( I
realize that, since the disposer now shares one of the kitchen circuits,
that I'll have to make sure that circuit isnt overloaded b4 I run the
disposer...but that shouldn't be a problem.) The outlet that the disposer
now is powered by is downstream of the GFCI box in the circuit & the new
disposer switch is in the same box as this outlet.
My question is this: The switch is a normal single pole switch with a
ground.......Do I need to connect the switch's ground terminal to a ground
in order for it (the switch & the disposer) to be protected by the GFCI?
(the outlet that it is connected to is properly grounded) There are so
many wires crammed into the box that I'm just trying to save myself some
work....If it will still be safe.
Thanks
Well if you are using a metal box and a good quality switch, the switch is
grounded through the box already; assuming you grounded the box(!). Though
even if you didn't, the box would sorta be grounded by the outlet.

If your box has too many wires in it to ground the switch, then your box is
too small. But if the switch follows the GFCI there shouldn't be any shock
hazzard if the GFCI is working. Since it might not be working, I would want
the switch grounded, especially in a potentially wet condition.

Have I waffled enough for you.

Thanks for your reply Toller. The box is plastic but the outlet (to which
the switch & the diposer are connected) is grounded & downstream of a GFI
protected outlet in the circuit.
"Toller" wrote in message
...

"Dick" wrote in message
...
I am having a new kitchen installed & doing some of the (less complicated)
electrical work myself. (ie changing plugs & switches, installing GFI's,
etc) Let me take a moment to explain the setup:
Our old garbage disposer was set up on it's own, non GFI protected 15 amp
circuit with the switch under the sink. I figured it was safer to connect
it up to the 20amp (GFI protected) circuit around the sink & I also
wanted to connect it to a new wall switch in the wall for convenience.
( I realize that, since the disposer now shares one of the kitchen
circuits, that I'll have to make sure that circuit isnt overloaded b4 I
run the disposer...but that shouldn't be a problem.) The outlet that the
disposer now is powered by is downstream of the GFCI box in the circuit &
the new disposer switch is in the same box as this outlet.
My question is this: The switch is a normal single pole switch with a
ground.......Do I need to connect the switch's ground terminal to a
ground in order for it (the switch & the disposer) to be protected by the
GFCI? (the outlet that it is connected to is properly grounded) There are
so many wires crammed into the box that I'm just trying to save myself
some work....If it will still be safe.
Thanks
Well if you are using a metal box and a good quality switch, the switch is
grounded through the box already; assuming you grounded the box(!).
Though even if you didn't, the box would sorta be grounded by the outlet.

If your box has too many wires in it to ground the switch, then your box
is too small. But if the switch follows the GFCI there shouldn't be any
shock hazzard if the GFCI is working. Since it might not be working, I
would want the switch grounded, especially in a potentially wet condition.

Have I waffled enough for you.

Dick wrote:
Thanks for your reply Toller. The box is plastic but the outlet (to which
the switch & the diposer are connected) is grounded & downstream of a GFI
protected outlet in the circuit.
"Toller" wrote in message
...

If you have a plastic box and a metal cover plate, then the switch must
be grounded (so in case of a fault, the cover plate won't become
energized). Even if you are using a non-metallic cover plate, I would
still ground the switch in case someone in the future changes the cover
plate to metal.

Also, as Toller said, if you are having trouble fitting all the wires
in, your junction box may be too small. You need to make sure you
don't have a box fill violation. Read this:

http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuild...ges/h00134.asp

Ken

According to Dick :
My question is this: The switch is a normal single pole switch with a
ground.......Do I need to connect the switch's ground terminal to a ground
in order for it (the switch & the disposer) to be protected by the GFCI?
(the outlet that it is connected to is properly grounded) There are so many
wires crammed into the box that I'm just trying to save myself some
work....If it will still be safe.

[You're already paying attention to the comments about grounding/box fill. Good.]

Two things:

1) Sharing a kitchen counter outlet circuit with a disposer is almost certainly
a code violation. Counter outlet circuits are supposed to be dedicated. While
you can pay attention to your loading when you use it, that's not going to be
particularly fool-proof, especially when and if someone else is in the kitchen.
I recommend a separate GFCI'd circuit.

2) GFCI's do not require a ground to operate. But it should be grounded
anyway - worst case scenario, the GFCI stops working properly, and a fault
occurs in the disposer. Depending on the circumstances, that could
make your sink or plumbing live & unprotected, or even a tingle if you
touch the counter. If you run into box fill problems, install a bigger
box.

[Note: I do not believe that disposers have a GFCI code requirement,
and GFCI is a permissible substitute when you don't have ground. But if you
have a feasibly useable ground, you should use it. An inspector would likely
insist. If you run into box fill problems with a ground, you're probably
already over the limit without the ground. Here, we don't really factor
in the ground wires into box fill (except for the wire nuts), because they're
much smaller and can be routed so that they take virtually zero space.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

After reading the very helpful replies from this forum I have decided to rewire the (new) wall box I installed in such a way that the outlet side will merely continue the kitchen counter circuit (which is protected by an "upstream" GFCI) & the switch (which shares the same double box) will merely tie into the original disposer line (on it's own breaker) & have no connection whatever to the counter circuit. (This will also free up space in the box & allow me to easily wire the ground to the disposer switch)
I had (evidently erroneously) thought that running the disposer ( since it obviously contacts water) off of a GFI protected circuit was a safer way to go...... I still don't understand why it is evidently safer to not have the disposer ( & thus it's new above counter switch) protected by a GFI, but I guess it isn't.
Anyway, thanks for setting me straight!

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message ...
According to Dick :
My question is this: The switch is a normal single pole switch with a
ground.......Do I need to connect the switch's ground terminal to a ground
in order for it (the switch & the disposer) to be protected by the GFCI?
(the outlet that it is connected to is properly grounded) There are so many
wires crammed into the box that I'm just trying to save myself some
work....If it will still be safe.

[You're already paying attention to the comments about grounding/box fill. Good.]

Two things:

1) Sharing a kitchen counter outlet circuit with a disposer is almost certainly
a code violation. Counter outlet circuits are supposed to be dedicated. While
you can pay attention to your loading when you use it, that's not going to be
particularly fool-proof, especially when and if someone else is in the kitchen.
I recommend a separate GFCI'd circuit.

2) GFCI's do not require a ground to operate. But it should be grounded
anyway - worst case scenario, the GFCI stops working properly, and a fault
occurs in the disposer. Depending on the circumstances, that could
make your sink or plumbing live & unprotected, or even a tingle if you
touch the counter. If you run into box fill problems, install a bigger
box.

[Note: I do not believe that disposers have a GFCI code requirement,
and GFCI is a permissible substitute when you don't have ground. But if you
have a feasibly useable ground, you should use it. An inspector would likely
insist. If you run into box fill problems with a ground, you're probably
already over the limit without the ground. Here, we don't really factor
in the ground wires into box fill (except for the wire nuts), because they're
much smaller and can be routed so that they take virtually zero space.]
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Dick :
-=-=-=-=-=-

After reading the very helpful replies from this forum I have decided to rewire the (new) wall box I
installed in such a way that the outlet side will merely continue the kitchen counter circuit (which is
protected by an "upstream" GFCI) & the switch (which shares the same double box) will merely tie into the
original disposer line (on it's own breaker) & have no connection whatever to the counter circuit. (This will
also free up space in the box & allow me to easily wire the ground to the disposer switch)
I had (evidently erroneously) thought that running the disposer ( since it obviously contacts water) off of a
GFI protected circuit was a safer way to go...... I still don't understand why it is evidently safer to not
have the disposer ( & thus it's new above counter switch) protected by a GFI, but I guess it isn't.

What gives you the idea that it isn't? Nothing wrong with putting it on a GFCI.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Dick wrote:
I am having a new kitchen installed & doing some of the (less complicated)
electrical work myself. (ie changing plugs & switches, installing GFI's,
etc) Let me take a moment to explain the setup:
Our old garbage disposer was set up on it's own, non GFI protected 15 amp
circuit with the switch under the sink. I figured it was safer to connect it
up to the 20amp (GFI protected) circuit around the sink & I also wanted to
connect it to a new wall switch in the wall for convenience. ( I realize
that, since the disposer now shares one of the kitchen circuits, that I'll
have to make sure that circuit isnt overloaded b4 I run the disposer...but
that shouldn't be a problem.) The outlet that the disposer now is powered by
is downstream of the GFCI box in the circuit & the new disposer switch is in
the same box as this outlet.
My question is this: The switch is a normal single pole switch with a
ground.......Do I need to connect the switch's ground terminal to a ground
in order for it (the switch & the disposer) to be protected by the GFCI?
(the outlet that it is connected to is properly grounded) There are so many
wires crammed into the box that I'm just trying to save myself some
work....If it will still be safe.
Thanks



Dick
Connecting that food waste disposer to the kitchen counter top
receptacle circuit is a violation of the US National Electric Code.
Circuits that supply kitchen counter receptacles may not supply any
other load that is fastened in place. That includes dishwashers,
disposals, gas range controls, built in microwaves, range hoods and so
forth.
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

On Fri, 02 Dec 2005 14:59:42 GMT, "Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT"
wrote:

Dick wrote:
I am having a new kitchen installed & doing some of the (less complicated)
electrical work myself. (ie changing plugs & switches, installing GFI's,
etc) Let me take a moment to explain the setup:
Our old garbage disposer was set up on it's own, non GFI protected 15 amp
circuit with the switch under the sink. I figured it was safer to connect it
up to the 20amp (GFI protected) circuit around the sink & I also wanted to
connect it to a new wall switch in the wall for convenience. ( I realize
that, since the disposer now shares one of the kitchen circuits, that I'll
have to make sure that circuit isnt overloaded b4 I run the disposer...but
that shouldn't be a problem.) The outlet that the disposer now is powered by
is downstream of the GFCI box in the circuit & the new disposer switch is in
the same box as this outlet.
My question is this: The switch is a normal single pole switch with a
ground.......Do I need to connect the switch's ground terminal to a ground
in order for it (the switch & the disposer) to be protected by the GFCI?
(the outlet that it is connected to is properly grounded) There are so many
wires crammed into the box that I'm just trying to save myself some
work....If it will still be safe.
Thanks



Dick
Connecting that food waste disposer to the kitchen counter top
receptacle circuit is a violation of the US National Electric Code.
Circuits that supply kitchen counter receptacles may not supply any
other load that is fastened in place. That includes dishwashers,
disposals, gas range controls, built in microwaves, range hoods and so
forth.

The disposer is on the same 20A circuit as the counter outlets in my
house (built about 1969). The dishwasher is on a dedicated 20A
circuit. The range hood is on a 30A 240V circuit with the stove top*
(oven has a separate 30A 240V circuit).

&&&

* - I thought this was strange at first, but it (hood light) could
provide a way to verify that the range breaker is off. I have the
breakers all labeled, but it wouldn't hurt to have something else too.


--
23 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what
to have for lunch. Liberty is a well armed lamb
contesting the vote." - Benjamin Franklin

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...
According to Dick :
-=-=-=-=-=-

After reading the very helpful replies from this forum I have
decided to rewire the (new) wall box I
installed in such a way that the outlet side will merely continue
the kitchen counter circuit (which is
protected by an "upstream" GFCI) & the switch (which shares the
same double box) will merely tie into the
original disposer line (on it's own breaker) & have no connection
whatever to the counter circuit. (This will
also free up space in the box & allow me to easily wire the
ground to the disposer switch)
I had (evidently erroneously) thought that running the disposer
( since it obviously contacts water) off of a
GFI protected circuit was a safer way to go...... I still don't
understand why it is evidently safer to not
have the disposer ( & thus it's new above counter switch)
protected by a GFI, but I guess it isn't.

What gives you the idea that it isn't? Nothing wrong with putting
it on a GFCI.


Motor loads will give nuisance trips every once in a while, though....