I recently had a discussion with a friend who recently replaced his
kitchen range. He said that he didn't even consider natural gas
because the price has taken a dramatic jump in the past year, making
electric cooking much cheaper. His perception of the relative cost
may or may not be true - I don't know (although I suspect that NG is
and will continue to be more economical for the foreseeable future).

The discussion went off on a tangent regarding the efficiency of a
gas range vs a gas furnace. Given that gas burners heat the kitchen,
they obviously take some of the load off of the furnace (cooking
during the heating season is assumed here). But an intriguing
thought occurred to me - since the range is not vented to the outside
like the furnace is, all of the heat generated by the burning gas
remains in the house. This means that the more you cook, the lower
your gas bill should be, even with un ultra high efficiency furnace.
Is this true? Should I encourage my wife to bake more cookies for
the purpose of saving energy? Can it be that simple?

Granted, there's a downside to heating your home with the kitchen
range. But is my speculation valid?

Mike,

Yes it is more efficient to heat the kitchen with a range instead of a
furnace. The range is 100% efficient. all the heat goes inside the
house.

However, heat distribution will be uneven, the kitchen will be warm
when the rest of the house is cold

The gas flame produces two primary products of combustion, carbon
dioxide and water vapor. Both can cause problems in large enough
concentrations.

It also produces some carbon monoxide.

I would like to ask how you like living inside a chimney??

For ocasional use, the stove is fine. It depends on your climate. But
if you use it for only heat source, you may make humidity high enough
to cause condensation on windows and window sills, which could promote
mold. You will increase the CO and CO2 levels in the house as well as
depletw oxygen levels. It depends on how loose your house construction
is and how big your burners are, as well as the size of your house.

No simple answeres here without more information.

Ask Nick Pine, he loves doing supposing and calculations.

Stretch

Mike Hartigan wrote:
I recently had a discussion with a friend who recently replaced his
kitchen range. He said that he didn't even consider natural gas
because the price has taken a dramatic jump in the past year, making
electric cooking much cheaper. His perception of the relative cost
may or may not be true - I don't know (although I suspect that NG is
and will continue to be more economical for the foreseeable future).

Which will be cheaper depends on a large number of factors including
things like how well his pans fit the burners. In any case it is not likely
that he is going to save anything over pocket change between the two.

I wonder if your friend knows that a lot of electrical power is produced
from natural gas.


The discussion went off on a tangent regarding the efficiency of a
gas range vs a gas furnace. Given that gas burners heat the kitchen,
they obviously take some of the load off of the furnace (cooking
during the heating season is assumed here). But an intriguing
thought occurred to me - since the range is not vented to the outside
like the furnace is, all of the heat generated by the burning gas
remains in the house. This means that the more you cook, the lower
your gas bill should be, even with un ultra high efficiency furnace.
Is this true? Should I encourage my wife to bake more cookies for
the purpose of saving energy? Can it be that simple?

This one is much the same. There are many factors involved. Modern
furnaces are 90% and more efficient. With the disadvantages like the ones
Stretch pointed out, it would be very difficult to make up that 5-10%
potential advantage.


Granted, there's a downside to heating your home with the kitchen
range. But is my speculation valid?

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Don't misunderstand, I would never consider using my gas range to
heat the house. These were simply questions to satisfy my curiosity.
So baking cookies will, indeed, lower my gas bill!

In article .com,
says...
Mike,

Yes it is more efficient to heat the kitchen with a range instead of a
furnace. The range is 100% efficient. all the heat goes inside the
house.

However, heat distribution will be uneven, the kitchen will be warm
when the rest of the house is cold

The gas flame produces two primary products of combustion, carbon
dioxide and water vapor. Both can cause problems in large enough
concentrations.

It also produces some carbon monoxide.

I would like to ask how you like living inside a chimney??

For ocasional use, the stove is fine. It depends on your climate. But
if you use it for only heat source, you may make humidity high enough
to cause condensation on windows and window sills, which could promote
mold. You will increase the CO and CO2 levels in the house as well as
depletw oxygen levels. It depends on how loose your house construction
is and how big your burners are, as well as the size of your house.

No simple answeres here without more information.

Ask Nick Pine, he loves doing supposing and calculations.

Stretch

Would those be "chocolate chip cookies?
"Mike Hartigan" wrote in message
.net...
I recently had a discussion with a friend who recently replaced his
kitchen range. He said that he didn't even consider natural gas
because the price has taken a dramatic jump in the past year, making
electric cooking much cheaper. His perception of the relative cost
may or may not be true - I don't know (although I suspect that NG is
and will continue to be more economical for the foreseeable future).

The discussion went off on a tangent regarding the efficiency of a
gas range vs a gas furnace. Given that gas burners heat the kitchen,
they obviously take some of the load off of the furnace (cooking
during the heating season is assumed here). But an intriguing
thought occurred to me - since the range is not vented to the outside
like the furnace is, all of the heat generated by the burning gas
remains in the house. This means that the more you cook, the lower
your gas bill should be, even with un ultra high efficiency furnace.
Is this true? Should I encourage my wife to bake more cookies for
the purpose of saving energy? Can it be that simple?

Granted, there's a downside to heating your home with the kitchen
range. But is my speculation valid?

Mike Hartigan wrote:
I recently had a discussion with a friend who recently replaced his
kitchen range. He said that he didn't even consider natural gas
because the price has taken a dramatic jump in the past year, making
electric cooking much cheaper. His perception of the relative cost
may or may not be true - I don't know (although I suspect that NG is
and will continue to be more economical for the foreseeable future).

The discussion went off on a tangent regarding the efficiency of a
gas range vs a gas furnace. Given that gas burners heat the kitchen,
they obviously take some of the load off of the furnace (cooking
during the heating season is assumed here). But an intriguing
thought occurred to me - since the range is not vented to the outside
like the furnace is, all of the heat generated by the burning gas
remains in the house. This means that the more you cook, the lower
your gas bill should be, even with un ultra high efficiency furnace.
Is this true? Should I encourage my wife to bake more cookies for
the purpose of saving energy? Can it be that simple?

Granted, there's a downside to heating your home with the kitchen
range. But is my speculation valid?

Yeah, it seems to me that's correct, but you are leaving out the
question of combustion efficiency; i.e., if the furnace burned 90% of
the gas but the stove only burned 80% or something like that. I have no
idea if there is any difference, I hasten to add, just being
theoretical.

Speaking of which; given that a light bulb is inefficient because so
much of the electricity goes off into heat..... would an electric
heater be nearly 100% efficient because it gives off so little light?
Just wondering where else the energy could possibly go.

In article . com,
says...

Mike Hartigan wrote:
I recently had a discussion with a friend who recently replaced his
kitchen range. He said that he didn't even consider natural gas
because the price has taken a dramatic jump in the past year, making
electric cooking much cheaper. His perception of the relative cost
may or may not be true - I don't know (although I suspect that NG is
and will continue to be more economical for the foreseeable future).

The discussion went off on a tangent regarding the efficiency of a
gas range vs a gas furnace. Given that gas burners heat the kitchen,
they obviously take some of the load off of the furnace (cooking
during the heating season is assumed here). But an intriguing
thought occurred to me - since the range is not vented to the outside
like the furnace is, all of the heat generated by the burning gas
remains in the house. This means that the more you cook, the lower
your gas bill should be, even with un ultra high efficiency furnace.
Is this true? Should I encourage my wife to bake more cookies for
the purpose of saving energy? Can it be that simple?

Granted, there's a downside to heating your home with the kitchen
range. But is my speculation valid?

Yeah, it seems to me that's correct, but you are leaving out the
question of combustion efficiency; i.e., if the furnace burned 90% of
the gas but the stove only burned 80% or something like that. I have no
idea if there is any difference, I hasten to add, just being
theoretical.

Given that there is no heat escaping through a chimney, I believe
that the stove would, in this context, be 100% efficient.

Speaking of which; given that a light bulb is inefficient because so
much of the electricity goes off into heat..... would an electric
heater be nearly 100% efficient because it gives off so little light?
Just wondering where else the energy could possibly go.

Electric heat is 100% efficient. Indeed, an incandescent light bulb
is also 100% efficient. Unfortunately, most of the energy is given
off as heat rather than light. But 100% of the energy is converted
into a useable form - heat and light. If you heat your home with
electricity, then the efficiency of your light bulbs is irrelevant.
Save your money and leave the CF bulbs for the natural gas users!

Mike Hartigan wrote:
I recently had a discussion with a friend who recently replaced his
kitchen range. He said that he didn't even consider natural gas
because the price has taken a dramatic jump in the past year, making
electric cooking much cheaper. His perception of the relative cost
may or may not be true - I don't know (although I suspect that NG is
and will continue to be more economical for the foreseeable future).

The discussion went off on a tangent regarding the efficiency of a
gas range vs a gas furnace. Given that gas burners heat the kitchen,
they obviously take some of the load off of the furnace (cooking
during the heating season is assumed here). But an intriguing
thought occurred to me - since the range is not vented to the outside
like the furnace is, all of the heat generated by the burning gas
remains in the house. This means that the more you cook, the lower
your gas bill should be, even with un ultra high efficiency furnace.
Is this true? Should I encourage my wife to bake more cookies for
the purpose of saving energy? Can it be that simple?

Granted, there's a downside to heating your home with the kitchen
range. But is my speculation valid?

On thing not asked, but should be added for those who may consider this
a good idea, check with your local fire department and their experience with
people using stoves and ovens for heating their homes.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Mike Hartigan wrote:

In article . com,
says...

...
Electric heat is 100% efficient. Indeed, an incandescent light bulb
is also 100% efficient. Unfortunately, most of the energy is given
off as heat rather than light. But 100% of the energy is converted
into a useable form - heat and light. If you heat your home with
electricity, then the efficiency of your light bulbs is irrelevant.
Save your money and leave the CF bulbs for the natural gas users!

However, CFLs burn cooler and so the heat stress on a fixture is much
less. They also are supposed to have a much longer life. --Phil
--
Phil Munro Dept of Electrical & Computer Engin
Youngstown State University
Youngstown, Ohio 44555

Mike Hartigan wrote:

Save your money and leave the CF bulbs for the natural gas users!

Why? If the bulb gives off heat, it is just as good for my oil or gas
heated house. It may not be the lowest cost, but there is no waste.

In article qgMef.1253$Sb.141@trndny03, says...
Mike Hartigan wrote:

Save your money and leave the CF bulbs for the natural gas users!

Why? If the bulb gives off heat, it is just as good for my oil or gas
heated house. It may not be the lowest cost, but there is no waste.

Actually, I meant to say "...leave the CF bulbs for the non-electric
users". Since oil and gas are cheaper than electricity, you would be
spending more in total fuel cost with incandescent bulbs.

On Wed, 16 Nov 2005 14:40:04 -0500, Phil Munro
wrote:

Mike Hartigan wrote:

In article . com,
says...

...
Electric heat is 100% efficient. Indeed, an incandescent light bulb
is also 100% efficient. Unfortunately, most of the energy is given
off as heat rather than light. But 100% of the energy is converted
into a useable form - heat and light. If you heat your home with
electricity, then the efficiency of your light bulbs is irrelevant.

True. AIUI any light is eventually converted to heat** So one might
as well leave all the lights on and get the benefit of the light
before it turns into heat.

The BIG problem with this is that people will get in the habit of
leaving the lights on and do it even in the summer, when the heat does
us no good, and when for many people, they'll have to pay to run the
AC to remove it.

I would think I can learn to have two sets of habits for winter and
summer -- after all, I remember to dress differently -- and I'm trying
to learn to do that. It's surprisingly hard though.



**we know it doesn't stay light forever because ifit did it, the room
would not get dark when you turned the bulbs off.

Save your money and leave the CF bulbs for the natural gas users!

However, CFLs burn cooler and so the heat stress on a fixture is much
less. They also are supposed to have a much longer life. --Phil


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