I just bought a house that was built in 1959 and is on a medium/mild
slope. Part of the inspection for the house purchase stated that the
foundation piers should be replaced to stop some movement of the house.
I hired a contractor to do this. When he finished I noticed HUGE
breaks and cracks in my kitchen and living room walls. It is
terrifying! They run all the way from the ceiling to half way down to
the ground and they are practically in EVERY corner. I am not sure
what to do now --the contractor has already been paid. Is this
something I should have expected or is this something he should/could
have avoided?

he should/could have avoided. Have you called him to see if he will
rectify the problem? Just because he's been paid doen't mean he won't
take care of his responsibilities.


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"kitamaria" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just bought a house that was built in 1959 and is on a medium/mild
slope. Part of the inspection for the house purchase stated that the
foundation piers should be replaced to stop some movement of the house.
I hired a contractor to do this. When he finished I noticed HUGE
breaks and cracks in my kitchen and living room walls. It is
terrifying! They run all the way from the ceiling to half way down to
the ground and they are practically in EVERY corner. I am not sure
what to do now --the contractor has already been paid. Is this
something I should have expected or is this something he should/could
have avoided?

No. It's something you should take up with the contractor or local
authorities. Not a bunch of strangers on the internet, dickweed.....

"kitamaria" wrote in message
oups.com...
I just bought a house that was built in 1959 and is on a medium/mild
slope. Part of the inspection for the house purchase stated that the
foundation piers should be replaced to stop some movement of the house.
I hired a contractor to do this. When he finished I noticed HUGE
breaks and cracks in my kitchen and living room walls. It is
terrifying! They run all the way from the ceiling to half way down to
the ground and they are practically in EVERY corner. I am not sure
what to do now --the contractor has already been paid. Is this
something I should have expected or is this something he should/could
have avoided?

What's a huge crack? Are we talking floor to ceiling hairline cracks in
sheetrock? How wide are the cracks?

I would think replacing piers would involve jacking the house clear of
existing piers, tearing them out, installing new ones, then lowering the
house down to the new piers. I'd guess it would be done one pier at a time.

I think it would be hard to do this job without flexing the house enough to
crack some sheetrock seams.

On the other hand, I'd think the contractor should have warned of this risk
before accepting the job.

KB

kitamaria wrote:

I just bought a house that was built in 1959 and is on a medium/mild
slope. Part of the inspection for the house purchase stated that the
foundation piers should be replaced to stop some movement of the house.
I hired a contractor to do this. When he finished I noticed HUGE
breaks and cracks in my kitchen and living room walls. It is
terrifying! They run all the way from the ceiling to half way down to
the ground and they are practically in EVERY corner. I am not sure
what to do now --the contractor has already been paid. Is this
something I should have expected or is this something he should/could
have avoided?

What is huge? Long or wide? Every corner? Along one load-bearing
wall, one story, or what? Ceiling to half way to ground - is that one
floor or ten? Settle down and give some details. IF you have hairline
cracks in corners along the exterior wall that was on the piers, I would
not be worried. Was their a building permit? Specifications in
contract for means of support, hazards? Inspection by code enforcement?

You dont have to be an asshole and call me a dickweed. I thought I
might be able to get feedback from others who had experience with this
issue before I speak to my contractor on Monday. Dont reply if you
think I asked a stupid question.

The cracks are wide enough that I could stick a nail in them, or a
piece of thin spaghetti. Some are hairpin though. They are mainly
along a large wall that divides the kitchen and living room and one of
the cracks is in the shape of a large square (4x4). Along the doorway
there are cracks that go all the way from the ceiling to the top of the
doorway and on a few other walls there are long vertical cracks. It
almost looks like there may have been some cracks before that got
"reopened" after the construction occured. Most of the cracks are
around 4 feet long vertical. there wasnt a permit or anything (at
least I dont think so). It was supposed to be a routine job that took
only 2 days. Thanks for being so nice --I know this is ultimatly
something I need to discuss with my contractor but I just wasnt sure if
wall cracks are something I should have known would happen.

Ok, I feel a little better.

In article R3sbf.3315$6M6.2115@trnddc04, Red Neckerson says...


"kitamaria" wrote in message
roups.com...
I just bought a house that was built in 1959 and is on a medium/mild
slope. Part of the inspection for the house purchase stated that the
foundation piers should be replaced to stop some movement of the house.
I hired a contractor to do this. When he finished I noticed HUGE
breaks and cracks in my kitchen and living room walls. It is
terrifying! They run all the way from the ceiling to half way down to
the ground and they are practically in EVERY corner. I am not sure
what to do now --the contractor has already been paid. Is this
something I should have expected or is this something he should/could
have avoided?

No. It's something you should take up with the contractor or local
authorities. Not a bunch of strangers on the internet, dickweed.....



Oh dear dont' tell me - did some poor soul actually come here to ask a
question??!? It happened again??

Thank God there are people like you who will stop this awful thing from
happening!

The very thought of it! Someone asking about a house repair situation in a home
repair newsgroup!

Banty

In article .com, kitamaria
says...

I just bought a house that was built in 1959 and is on a medium/mild
slope. Part of the inspection for the house purchase stated that the
foundation piers should be replaced to stop some movement of the house.
I hired a contractor to do this. When he finished I noticed HUGE
breaks and cracks in my kitchen and living room walls. It is
terrifying! They run all the way from the ceiling to half way down to
the ground and they are practically in EVERY corner. I am not sure
what to do now --the contractor has already been paid. Is this
something I should have expected or is this something he should/could
have avoided?


Yes, call the contractor back.

Was the house partially undermined? Was it jacked up to facilitate the work?

Banty

Don't sweat the small stuff. That's a trolling kaner plain and
simple, and wishes to feed on other's discontent. Just starve it
by ignoring it, if you want revenge. Responding to things like
it is, only encourages them. This group has become infested with
a few of the kaners recently and they're being encourage by the
responses they get.


"kitamaria" wrote in message
oups.com...
: You dont have to be an asshole and call me a dickweed. I
thought I
: might be able to get feedback from others who had experience
with this
: issue before I speak to my contractor on Monday. Dont reply if
you
: think I asked a stupid question.
:

"Kyle Boatright" wrote in message
...
:
: "kitamaria" wrote in message
: oups.com...
: I just bought a house that was built in 1959 and is on a
medium/mild
: slope. Part of the inspection for the house purchase stated
that the
: foundation piers should be replaced to stop some movement of
the house.
: I hired a contractor to do this. When he finished I noticed
HUGE
: breaks and cracks in my kitchen and living room walls. It is
: terrifying! They run all the way from the ceiling to half
way down to
: the ground and they are practically in EVERY corner. I am
not sure
: what to do now --the contractor has already been paid. Is
this
: something I should have expected or is this something he
should/could
: have avoided?
:
: What's a huge crack? Are we talking floor to ceiling hairline
cracks in
: sheetrock? How wide are the cracks?
:
: I would think replacing piers would involve jacking the house
clear of
: existing piers, tearing them out, installing new ones, then
lowering the
: house down to the new piers. I'd guess it would be done one
pier at a time.
:
: I think it would be hard to do this job without flexing the
house enough to
: crack some sheetrock seams.
:
: On the other hand, I'd think the contractor should have warned
of this risk
: before accepting the job.
:
: KB
:
:
That's a good point. Have you looked at the contract to see if
there might be anything about the situation? It's possible but
unlikely the contract contains a remedy you aren't yet aware of.
Or the opposite, unfortunately.
If the cracks are as large as they first sounded, you might be
starting an "interesting" learning experience here.
Keep us posted, please.

Pop

I am not sure what that means. I know they were working under the
house in the crawl space. I also noticed that most of the cracks in
the house correspond to the piers they replaced underneath.

Thanks Banty. I am a single female that is very inexperienced with
construction and homeownership (I am still learning!) and thought this
group might be a good way to get some advice or feedback. --And it has
been overall but I am sure even in cyberspace there are creeps like
"Red Neckerson."

Ug, I dont need any more "interesting learning experiences" but I think
you are right. I just expected to live in my new home for at least a
couple months before this stuff started happening. I will examine the
contract on Monday (its at work). Thanks Pop.

"kitamaria" wrote in message
ups.com...
: The cracks are wide enough that I could stick a nail in them,
or a
: piece of thin spaghetti. Some are hairpin though. They are
mainly
: along a large wall that divides the kitchen and living room and
one of
: the cracks is in the shape of a large square (4x4). Along the
doorway
: there are cracks that go all the way from the ceiling to the
top of the
: doorway and on a few other walls there are long vertical
cracks. It
: almost looks like there may have been some cracks before that
got
: "reopened" after the construction occured. Most of the cracks
are
: around 4 feet long vertical. there wasnt a permit or anything
(at
: least I dont think so). It was supposed to be a routine job
that took
: only 2 days. Thanks for being so nice --I know this is
ultimatly
: something I need to discuss with my contractor but I just wasnt
sure if
: wall cracks are something I should have known would happen.
:

Those don't sound "too bad" but ... those could also be famous
last words. I don't really know much about that sort of thing
but I do know that small movements (as in jacking a floor which
I've done in the past) does cause cracks to open up.

IMO, you should first:
Create a reference and get pictures of the cracks. If a nail
sticks into them, stick the nail in for the picture. Try to
measure and write down the sizes, length of width and direction
of each crack and note its location.
You'll then have a "reference". If the cracks change over
time or new ones occur, it could be really good informaiton to
have on hand. Sometimes just having a reference like that is
enough to talk a contractor whatever into taking care of things,
IF they need to be taken care of.
The worst part of this sounds to me like you were surprised by
it. That never should have happened. You should have been
advised of that sort of thing. Surprises are never good on any
job.

The bit about No Permit is a little disconcerting, too. I'm
pretty sure one was needed, but ... like I said, no expert here.
I'd call the local code enforcement office and ask if a permit is
needed for that sort of thing - you don't have to identify
yourself just to ask a question.
Then, assuming one was needed, I'd ask the contractor for a
copy of it for your records - a completely reasonable request.
The permit should have been prominently displayed while the work
was in progress.
I've no idea whether inspections were required when the job
was finished, but ... I would think that was the case.

For sure, create your reference point as I mentioned above, and
then go after the rest of it. Do NOT jump to conclusions because
this whole thing might be a whole set of tiny details not worth
worrying about.
But do find out ,just in case it IS a big deal, about the
permit situation because that could really bite you in the ass in
the future. I'll be very surprised if no permit was required to
do that sort of work.
Was the contractor bonded/insured?

HTH,
Pop

In your original post, you mentioned this was done to stop movement. When
the contractor was finished had he re-levelled the house where it was not
level before? This will cause cracks, but if the house is now level, these
can be filled and repaired and "should" not re-appear if the foundation is
now solid.


"kitamaria" wrote in message
ups.com...
I am not sure what that means. I know they were working under the
house in the crawl space. I also noticed that most of the cracks in
the house correspond to the piers they replaced underneath.

Ok, you are right. I was just taken aback. Newbie here too I guess!
:-)

In article , Pop says...

Don't sweat the small stuff. That's a trolling kaner plain and
simple, and wishes to feed on other's discontent. Just starve it
by ignoring it, if you want revenge. Responding to things like
it is, only encourages them. This group has become infested with
a few of the kaners recently and they're being encourage by the
responses they get.

OK.

But - do you promise to be around to explain this to each new person who asks a
question and gets slammed for it?

Over to you...

Banty

Pop, your comments are very helpful and I will check out the permit
issue and take come pictures of the damage. I feel so stupid for not
knowing. I just bought the house and one of the engineeing inspectors
looked at the foundation and said the piers should be replaced and I
signed the inspection sheet that I guess doubled as a bid. He never
mentioned permits. I will look into it. Hopefully it just looks worse
than it is and since its not foundational, maybe I can just rip them
out and put new ones in. It could just be that he "straightened out my
house" and they only cracked because they were put back in place. I
do feel a ton better than I did before I posted this thread so thanks
for calming me down. Google groups is so cool!

In article .com, kitamaria
says...

Thanks Banty. I am a single female that is very inexperienced with
construction and homeownership (I am still learning!) and thought this
group might be a good way to get some advice or feedback. --And it has
been overall but I am sure even in cyberspace there are creeps like
"Red Neckerson."


Never mind Mr. Red. Those guys are just background noise

I'm a single female too who just recently had an involved foundation repair
done, too. It went well. I had an engineer involved, though, and the mason and
he discussed the job. My house was not jacked up - the old inadequate footer
was partially undermined to pour a new footer under it and up to it. Other work
too, but hat was the main part of it. We don't usually have piers around here.

You might consult with a structural engineer about this. And do call the
contractor back.

Banty

In article , Pop says...


"kitamaria" wrote in message
oups.com...
: The cracks are wide enough that I could stick a nail in them,
or a
: piece of thin spaghetti. Some are hairpin though. They are
mainly
: along a large wall that divides the kitchen and living room and
one of
: the cracks is in the shape of a large square (4x4). Along the
doorway
: there are cracks that go all the way from the ceiling to the
top of the
: doorway and on a few other walls there are long vertical
cracks. It
: almost looks like there may have been some cracks before that
got
: "reopened" after the construction occured. Most of the cracks
are
: around 4 feet long vertical. there wasnt a permit or anything
(at
: least I dont think so). It was supposed to be a routine job
that took
: only 2 days. Thanks for being so nice --I know this is
ultimatly
: something I need to discuss with my contractor but I just wasnt
sure if
: wall cracks are something I should have known would happen.
:

Those don't sound "too bad" but ... those could also be famous
last words. I don't really know much about that sort of thing
but I do know that small movements (as in jacking a floor which
I've done in the past) does cause cracks to open up.

IMO, you should first:
Create a reference and get pictures of the cracks. If a nail
sticks into them, stick the nail in for the picture. Try to
measure and write down the sizes, length of width and direction
of each crack and note its location.
You'll then have a "reference". If the cracks change over
time or new ones occur, it could be really good informaiton to
have on hand. Sometimes just having a reference like that is
enough to talk a contractor whatever into taking care of things,
IF they need to be taken care of.
The worst part of this sounds to me like you were surprised by
it. That never should have happened. You should have been
advised of that sort of thing. Surprises are never good on any
job.

The bit about No Permit is a little disconcerting, too. I'm
pretty sure one was needed, but ... like I said, no expert here.
I'd call the local code enforcement office and ask if a permit is
needed for that sort of thing - you don't have to identify
yourself just to ask a question.
Then, assuming one was needed, I'd ask the contractor for a
copy of it for your records - a completely reasonable request.
The permit should have been prominently displayed while the work
was in progress.
I've no idea whether inspections were required when the job
was finished, but ... I would think that was the case.

For sure, create your reference point as I mentioned above, and
then go after the rest of it. Do NOT jump to conclusions because
this whole thing might be a whole set of tiny details not worth
worrying about.
But do find out ,just in case it IS a big deal, about the
permit situation because that could really bite you in the ass in
the future. I'll be very surprised if no permit was required to
do that sort of work.
Was the contractor bonded/insured?

Great advice. My engineer recorded the dynamic cracking problem I had as part
of his investigation (frost heaving issue).

BTW, for my job there was no permit, as it is a repair. These things do vary
widely, though.

Banty

I am not sure if the house is now level. Since I am on a hill (but not
a steep hill --more like the bottom of a hill with a gradual slope) and
my house is 50 years old, the house has shifted by 3 inches and the
"piers" had shifted. The job was to make the piers straight again and
since they help support the house, i guess that was supposed to help
the house from shifting -although realistically the house will always
move a little due to gravity. But your comment does give me hope. I
will have another contractor come assess the situation.

"Banty" wrote

Thanks Banty. I am a single female that is very inexperienced with
construction and homeownership (I am still learning!) and thought this
group might be a good way to get some advice or feedback. --And it has
been overall but I am sure even in cyberspace there are creeps like
"Red Neckerson."


Never mind Mr. Red. Those guys are just background noise

I'm a single female too who just recently had an involved foundation
repair
done, too.

I'm a female TOO!!

Lesby friends, O-Kay??!!!

kitamaria wrote:

The cracks are wide enough that I could stick a nail in them, or a
piece of thin spaghetti. Some are hairpin though. They are mainly
along a large wall that divides the kitchen and living room and one of
the cracks is in the shape of a large square (4x4). Along the doorway
there are cracks that go all the way from the ceiling to the top of the
doorway and on a few other walls there are long vertical cracks. It
almost looks like there may have been some cracks before that got
"reopened" after the construction occured. Most of the cracks are
around 4 feet long vertical. there wasnt a permit or anything (at
least I dont think so). It was supposed to be a routine job that took
only 2 days. Thanks for being so nice --I know this is ultimatly
something I need to discuss with my contractor but I just wasnt sure if
wall cracks are something I should have known would happen.

I have no experience with issues like what you have described, but it
seems worthy of consulting an attorney (assuming you have a good one )
because: There may have been defects not disclosed by purchaser,
damage done by contractor, or issues covered by warranty. Bring photos
) Good luck, and let us know how it goes.

I would call the contractor to inquire about the cracks in the walls.

And for what it's worth, if's really no big deal to fix them. You just
dig them out, fill in, prime and paint. I'd be painting the whole wall
to make it look right though.

Thanks, I wil do that. I think the damage may be worse than I thought
those because one of the cracks is on both sides of the wall and also
splits on the doorway. I could almost take a piece of dental floss and
slip it in between the two sides of plaster now. I am having an
engineer come examine it but from the naked eye it looks like the
sellers had a problem in the past and removed a chunk of plaster the
size of a big screen tv and painted over it and now that chunk is going
to "fall out." Very annoying but I still love the house. Just
irritated this happened so soon after moving in!

In article .com, kitamaria
says...

Thanks, I wil do that. I think the damage may be worse than I thought
those because one of the cracks is on both sides of the wall and also
splits on the doorway. I could almost take a piece of dental floss and
slip it in between the two sides of plaster now. I am having an
engineer come examine it but from the naked eye it looks like the
sellers had a problem in the past and removed a chunk of plaster the
size of a big screen tv and painted over it and now that chunk is going
to "fall out." Very annoying but I still love the house. Just
irritated this happened so soon after moving in!


Hmmm, you may (or may not) have a disclosure issue. After you work with the
engineer (and depending on what the engineer says about the structural issues
and probably history) you might conside pursuing this with an attorney.

Banty

Maybe you'll get a huge settlement as your attorney cracks the case
and sues for damages.



--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

Hi there. I just did some renovations as well and there was a lot of
settling. Some of it in the structure but also a lot of cracks
appeared in the bathroom where there was a lot of new grouting. I
contacted my contractor immediately and he was not concerned a bit. He
said that was to be expected, fixed it, and said he'll likely have to
come back again. I do think you should take pictures asap though just
in case there is a problem again in the future. Good luck!


--
citygirl
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