According to Ignoramus5533 :
I came into possession of a few used 400-600A circuit breakers. Each
is the size of a milk jug. While researching prices on them and such
(they sell for $150-200 on ebay), I learned that some cost many
thousands of dollars new. I saw numbers from $2,500 and higher.

I am curious just what makes them so expensive. Do they have any
precious materials inside? Or what?

They're basically relatively low demand things used
commercially/industrially, and they're much more rugged than
their residential counterparts.

It takes good design to reliably interrupt a 400-600A circuit without
blowing up the neighborhood. Especially at higher voltages.

If you think that's bad, you should see the breakers they have
to use with higher ampacities and voltages. "air blast arc
suppression" etc. I'm glad we don't have to do that at a mere
15A ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Ignoramus5533 :
What you are saying, in other words, is that their price reflects not
only the production costs, but also costs of R&D etc, spread out among
relatively few produced pieces. Hence the cost.

Right?

Right. Remember also that these things tend to be multiple pole breakers
too. So, trying to see some relationship in cost between one of these
beasties and a single slot 15A residential breaker is bound to fail ;-)
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Ignoramus5533 :

I have a related question. I want to sell them on ebay and would like
to get as much as I can. The obvious things I can do is wipe the dust,
photograph them very well and test them with an ohm meter. Is there
anything else, something unobvious, that I could do?

Check for cracks, corrosion or pitting on the connectors. Ensure
that the contacts open/close when you operate the handle.

If you can see/get at the contacts, check them for heavy pitting.
[Sometimes these things have replaceable contacts, so you may
be able to get at them.]

Beyond that, you'd need to test them to see if they trip for
overcurrent. This is absolutely _not_ something you can test
short of having a purpose built lab with a lot of very
expensive gear, least of which being a power supply that can
deliver one heck of a lot of amps. And a shorting switch
that won't explode at, say, 100,000 amps.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

"Ignoramus5533" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 19:33:26 -0000, Chris Lewis
wrote:
According to Ignoramus5533 :

I have a related question. I want to sell them on ebay and would like
to get as much as I can. The obvious things I can do is wipe the dust,
photograph them very well and test them with an ohm meter. Is there
anything else, something unobvious, that I could do?

Check for cracks, corrosion or pitting on the connectors. Ensure
that the contacts open/close when you operate the handle.

If you can see/get at the contacts, check them for heavy pitting.
[Sometimes these things have replaceable contacts, so you may
be able to get at them.]

Thank you. all good ideas.

Beyond that, you'd need to test them to see if they trip for
overcurrent. This is absolutely _not_ something you can test
short of having a purpose built lab with a lot of very
expensive gear, least of which being a power supply that can
deliver one heck of a lot of amps. And a shorting switch
that won't explode at, say, 100,000 amps.

I agree. I could use some welding cables and several car batteries,
and use large steel flats for switching, but I do not see the point
and it is just too dangerous.

Checking the contacts is a great idea.

i


In addition to the low demand and cost of engineering, another thing that
probably inflates the cost is reliability testing. Very often the same
product is labeled and sold at different prices, the primary difference
being the amount of testing that went into ensuring the reliability of the
device. A good example is the difference between military and commercial
electronic parts.

In your case, you cannot guarantee reliability, provide a warrantee or
perhaps even guarantee functionality and this will all substantially reduce
the price for an eBay customer. Good luck, I find that electronic parts
sell slowly on eBay. Look at the number of bids on those parts for a
preview. Stuff is only worth what someone will pay for it, fortunately you
paid nothing. I think you will do better with a return if DOA policy rather
than an AS-IS policy.

Ignoramus5533 wrote:

....
... instead of dealing with clueless individual buyers who
buy them to use at their locations.

I'd say it would be the rare individual spending $100/breaker for own
use that would be totally clueless...Ain't many non-commercial
applications for 600A breakers.

"Ignoramus5533" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Oct 2005 20:35:38 GMT, PipeDown wrote:
In addition to the low demand and cost of engineering, another thing that
probably inflates the cost is reliability testing. Very often the same
product is labeled and sold at different prices, the primary difference
being the amount of testing that went into ensuring the reliability of
the
device. A good example is the difference between military and commercial
electronic parts.

Fair enough.

In your case, you cannot guarantee reliability, provide a warrantee or
perhaps even guarantee functionality and this will all substantially
reduce
the price for an eBay customer. Good luck, I find that electronic parts
sell slowly on eBay. Look at the number of bids on those parts for a
preview. Stuff is only worth what someone will pay for it, fortunately
you
paid nothing. I think you will do better with a return if DOA policy
rather
than an AS-IS policy.

Try search ebay for:

"400 amp" circuit breaker -(new)
"600 amp" circuit breaker -(new)

(cut and paste this into the search box)

You would find that these breakers briskly sell for about $150-230,
with the average price of about $190-200 or so.

If you look closely at ebay histories of auction winners, you would
see that they are professional dealers of circuit breakers. What I
suspect they do, is buy these breakers on ebay, test them, perhaps
replace contacts or whatever, call them "FACTORY RECONDITIONED" and
resell to their own customers for a few times more than what they
paid.

Thusly, I am leaning towards selling all these breakers in one lot, to
save shipping to such buyers. I would prefer selling to these
professionals instead of dealing with clueless individual buyers who
buy them to use at their locations.

i


Send an email to these pro dealers (eBay sellers) and ask if they would like
to buy your lot directlly from you. You may not get the max price but you
won't have to wait through several unsuccessful auctions (assuming you use a
minimum price) or get lowballed cause there is another just like it this
week etc.

"Chris Lewis" wrote in message
...

It takes good design to reliably interrupt a 400-600A circuit
without blowing up the neighborhood. Especially at higher
voltages.

If you think that's bad, you should see the breakers they have
to use with higher ampacities and voltages. "air blast arc
suppression" etc.

Speaking of which, check out this very cool site:

http://teslamania.delete.org/frames/longarc.htm

In particular, check out the two (large) videos of the HV disconnect
switches opening hot. Very exciting!

You may also be fascinated by the coin shrinking tricks elsewhere on the
author's site.

- Michael

Ignoramus5533 wrote:

Thusly, I am leaning towards selling all these breakers in one lot, to
save shipping to such buyers. I would prefer selling to these
professionals instead of dealing with clueless individual buyers who
buy them to use at their locations.



What is the warranty you are offering? We've used some used electrical
equipment in our shop, but it came from dealers with a warranty and
reputation for good stuff. Cluless individuals are not interested in 600A
breakers, and most pros are not intrested in screwing around wiht
questionable equpment. Just not worth the risk.

What you have is of interest to a very small segment of the electrical
market. You may be very disappointed in what you are offered for them.

According to DeepDiver :
You may also be fascinated by the coin shrinking tricks elsewhere on the
author's site.

I've seen those. Ouch!
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Ignoramus5533 :
I actually have a good reputation, 300+ 100% positive ebay feedback.

Yes, but does that feedback say you're a reliable supplier of
useable/working high amp breakers? _That's_ what's meant by "good
reputation" in this context. eBay reputation is somewhat irrelevant
in this context.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

According to Ignoramus21085 :
On Tue, 25 Oct 2005 16:18:41 -0000, Chris Lewis wrote:
According to Ignoramus5533 :
I actually have a good reputation, 300+ 100% positive ebay feedback.

Yes, but does that feedback say you're a reliable supplier of
useable/working high amp breakers? _That's_ what's meant by "good
reputation" in this context. eBay reputation is somewhat irrelevant
in this context.

Well, it says that I do not sell bad things by claiming that they are
good things.

It means you're basically honest, but it doesn't mean that you can
reliably assess the condition of these breakers. You can't test them.

Best you can say is "good/clean condition, contacts apparently good,
manual actuator works".

Industrial users of such equipment will not buy such gear. Even a
guarantee is not going to help, because they can't risk it failing and
taking something very expensive with it. Hell, for the most part,
it'll cost them more to install it than you could sell it for.

Rebuilders are your best bet, and they won't pay much.
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

In article ,
Ignoramus21085 wrote:

[...]

Rebuilders are your best bet, and they won't pay much.

Well, what would they pay, in your opinion?

i

In my limited experience with 'em (worked in a warehouse for a
rebuilder for a summer) it was running marginally better than
by-the-pound scrap prices. Also, one-offs got less than batches.
The guys I worked for were a bunch of assholes. Dunno if that
applies to the industry as a whole, but seemed about par in
Texas/Oklahoma.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail dot net