When the boiler in my house cycles, the lights dim all over the house.

Is there anything I can do to limit voltage drops like this? My house
has 200amp service; the boiler is on a 20amp circuit with 10 ga
aluminum wire (this is the correct size wire for 20amp); and the cable
between the socket on the outside of the house and the 200amp panel is
enormous.

What can be done? 200amp service for the house is an incredible
overkill. My guess is that the house usually draws 40amp or so during
busy periods, fewer amps otherwise.

Thanks, Michael

wrote:
When the boiler in my house cycles, the lights dim all over the house.

Is there anything I can do to limit voltage drops like this? My house
has 200amp service; the boiler is on a 20amp circuit with 10 ga
aluminum wire (this is the correct size wire for 20amp); and the cable
between the socket on the outside of the house and the 200amp panel is
enormous.

What can be done? 200amp service for the house is an incredible
overkill. My guess is that the house usually draws 40amp or so during
busy periods, fewer amps otherwise.

Thanks, Michael


Boiler is:

A: Electric
B: Gas-fired
C: Oil-fired

Is it the "boiler" start-up that dims the lights or
is there a circulating pump (Hydronic) which dims
the lights when it starts?

The AL wiring raises a red flag in and of itself...

Jim

wrote in message
ups.com...
When the boiler in my house cycles, the lights dim all over the house.

Is there anything I can do to limit voltage drops like this? My house
has 200amp service; the boiler is on a 20amp circuit with 10 ga
aluminum wire (this is the correct size wire for 20amp); and the cable
between the socket on the outside of the house and the 200amp panel is
enormous.

What can be done? 200amp service for the house is an incredible
overkill. My guess is that the house usually draws 40amp or so during
busy periods, fewer amps otherwise.

Thanks, Michael

The breaker box has two buss bars. If most lights and heater are on the same
buss, move it to the other side.


Motors draw a lot of current when they start. I can see some of my lights
dim slightly when mine starts.

When the boiler in my house cycles, the lights dim all over the house.
Is there anything I can do to limit voltage drops like this? My house
has 200amp service; the boiler is on a 20amp circuit with 10 ga
aluminum wire (this is the correct size wire for 20amp); and the cable
between the socket on the outside of the house and the 200amp panel is
enormous.

What can be done? 200amp service for the house is an incredible
overkill. My guess is that the house usually draws 40amp or so during
busy periods, fewer amps otherwise.

Thanks, Michael

Boiler is:
A: Electric
B: Gas-fired
C: Oil-fired

Is it the "boiler" start-up that dims the lights or
is there a circulating pump (Hydronic) which dims
the lights when it starts?

The AL wiring raises a red flag in and of itself...

Answers:

1. Boiler is oil-fired
2. Boiler start-up dims the lights

Why would AL wire by itself suggest problems? I could pull the wire
and replace with 12ga copper but I am not sure what this would do in
terms of voltage drops. Would this likely help?

Michael

wrote:

When the boiler in my house cycles, the lights dim all over the house.
Is there anything I can do to limit voltage drops like this? My house
has 200amp service; the boiler is on a 20amp circuit with 10 ga
aluminum wire (this is the correct size wire for 20amp); and the cable
between the socket on the outside of the house and the 200amp panel is
enormous.


What can be done? 200amp service for the house is an incredible
overkill. My guess is that the house usually draws 40amp or so during
busy periods, fewer amps otherwise.


Thanks, Michael


Boiler is:
A: Electric
B: Gas-fired
C: Oil-fired

Is it the "boiler" start-up that dims the lights or
is there a circulating pump (Hydronic) which dims
the lights when it starts?

The AL wiring raises a red flag in and of itself...

Answers:

1. Boiler is oil-fired
2. Boiler start-up dims the lights

Why would AL wire by itself suggest problems? I could pull the wire
and replace with 12ga copper but I am not sure what this would do in
terms of voltage drops. Would this likely help?

Michael


Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that the AL wire to the
boiler was causing dimming but rather that if the
whole house is AL wired there could be connections
"somewhere" upstream exhibiting voltage drop under load.

Anyway, some oil burner motors draw significant starting
currents today. If the incoming service from the pole
is "soft" you'll see dimming (at least on that "phase"
or side of the Line). As you note though, a 200 Amp
service wouldn't normally be so susceptible.

To really troubleshoot it, you may have to put static
loads (a bank of toasters, for example) on the circuit
and trace backward with a meter to find where the drop
occurs.

Jim

wrote in message
ups.com...
When the boiler in my house cycles, the lights dim all over the house.

Is there anything I can do to limit voltage drops like this? My house
has 200amp service; the boiler is on a 20amp circuit with 10 ga
aluminum wire (this is the correct size wire for 20amp); and the cable
between the socket on the outside of the house and the 200amp panel is
enormous.

What can be done? 200amp service for the house is an incredible
overkill. My guess is that the house usually draws 40amp or so during
busy periods, fewer amps otherwise.

Thanks, Michael

Time to check all of the connections. Especially the neutrals and grounds.
Lights dimming when a motor starts is classic loose neutral.

If your not comfortable working inside the electrical panel hire some one.

It's not abnormal. The motor probably draws around 400% of its running
current momentarily when it starts. I'm assuming this is an oil burner motor
with some circulators as well. Do you know if it is on a dedicated circuit
as the more taxed the circuit is when the motor starts, the more noticeable
the dimming would be. It is also possible that there is a problem with the
motor, which is something the oil burner service folks can check for






wrote in message
ups.com...
When the boiler in my house cycles, the lights dim all over the house.

Is there anything I can do to limit voltage drops like this? My house
has 200amp service; the boiler is on a 20amp circuit with 10 ga
aluminum wire (this is the correct size wire for 20amp); and the cable
between the socket on the outside of the house and the 200amp panel is
enormous.

What can be done? 200amp service for the house is an incredible
overkill. My guess is that the house usually draws 40amp or so during
busy periods, fewer amps otherwise.

Thanks, Michael

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
It's not abnormal. The motor probably draws around 400% of its running
current momentarily when it starts. I'm assuming this is an oil burner
motor with some circulators as well. Do you know if it is on a dedicated
circuit as the more taxed the circuit is when the motor starts, the more
noticeable the dimming would be. It is also possible that there is a
problem with the motor, which is something the oil burner service folks
can check for



I find it hard to believe a typical burner motor and pump would cause a
noticeable flicker on 200 amp panel. There has got to be a wiring problem
some where. A typical boiler set up may have a 1/3 HP motor for the boiler
and similar or less for the pump. 400% of 1/3 HP motor won't even max out a
twenty amp breaker!
I have equipment with 5 HP motors running in the shop, feed off of the
house's 200 amp panel. There is no noticeable flicker or dimming of the
lights when motors start.
Greg

If the lighting circuit happens to be on the same circuit as the burner he
should see some dimming when it starts. Not flickering though, that's an
altogether different situation. If the burner is on a dedicated circuit and
he's getting dimming on a separate lighting circuit, he's probably got a bad
connection on that leg of his service or possibly the neutral of the service



"Greg O" wrote in message
...
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
It's not abnormal. The motor probably draws around 400% of its running
current momentarily when it starts. I'm assuming this is an oil burner
motor with some circulators as well. Do you know if it is on a dedicated
circuit as the more taxed the circuit is when the motor starts, the more
noticeable the dimming would be. It is also possible that there is a
problem with the motor, which is something the oil burner service folks
can check for



I find it hard to believe a typical burner motor and pump would cause a
noticeable flicker on 200 amp panel. There has got to be a wiring problem
some where. A typical boiler set up may have a 1/3 HP motor for the boiler
and similar or less for the pump. 400% of 1/3 HP motor won't even max out
a twenty amp breaker!
I have equipment with 5 HP motors running in the shop, feed off of the
house's 200 amp panel. There is no noticeable flicker or dimming of the
lights when motors start.
Greg

Time to check all of the connections. Especially the neutrals and grounds.
Lights dimming when a motor starts is classic loose neutral.
If your not comfortable working inside the electrical panel hire some one.

When you say all the connections, do you mean all the connections in
the panel or all the connections that are on the boiler circuit (which
is a separate circuit)?

I can easily pop open the panel after shutting down the breaker outside
the house (the socket has a breaker) and make sure all the grounds and
neutrals are tight. If they are tight, then what should I check next?

By the way, the issue is dimming and not flickering. I suspect the
latter would be worse although I am not sure.

Thanks,

Michael

If the lighting circuit happens to be on the same circuit as the burner he
should see some dimming when it starts. Not flickering though, that's an
altogether different situation. If the burner is on a dedicated circuit and
he's getting dimming on a separate lighting circuit, he's probably got a bad
connection on that leg of his service or possibly the neutral of the service

The burner is on a dedicated circuit. I am seeing dimming on a
separate lighting circuit.

Does that mean the connection is bad on the lighting circuit or on the
burner circuit?

Michael

Is the dimming only on one lighting circuit or in various locations
throughout the house? If it is only on one circuit, I would want to check
for an improperly wired "multiwire branch circuit" which is two circuits
that share a common neutral. If you can open the panel, identify the
affected lighting circuit and the boiler circuit and see if they are
connected to a three wire cable, it would indicate this type of connection.
Aluminum single strand wire causes a lot of connection problems, however
they usually show up as a flickering situation, then go dead altogether



wrote in message
ups.com...
If the lighting circuit happens to be on the same circuit as the burner
he
should see some dimming when it starts. Not flickering though, that's an
altogether different situation. If the burner is on a dedicated circuit
and
he's getting dimming on a separate lighting circuit, he's probably got a
bad
connection on that leg of his service or possibly the neutral of the
service

The burner is on a dedicated circuit. I am seeing dimming on a
separate lighting circuit.

Does that mean the connection is bad on the lighting circuit or on the
burner circuit?

Michael

Ok, I think I may have isolated the problem.

There is a single circuit in the house that dims when a high load turns
on anywhere in the house. I managed to cycle the boiler and it caused
the lights to dim. I then powered on a table saw and it also caused
lights on the suspect circuit to dim.

How do I troubleshoot this circuit?

Should I start in the panel and work backwards?

The circuit has aluminum wires that are spliced to copper with the
special purple wire nuts used for AL-CU connections.

Michael

Yes, I'd check the connection on the circuit breaker and on the neutral
buss. However, if it's several reflector floods, like in recessed lights, it
doesn't take much of a surge to cause them to dim slightly



wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I think I may have isolated the problem.

There is a single circuit in the house that dims when a high load turns
on anywhere in the house. I managed to cycle the boiler and it caused
the lights to dim. I then powered on a table saw and it also caused
lights on the suspect circuit to dim.

How do I troubleshoot this circuit?

Should I start in the panel and work backwards?

The circuit has aluminum wires that are spliced to copper with the
special purple wire nuts used for AL-CU connections.

Michael

Just another thought that popped into my mind. While you may have a 200 amp
service, which is 4/0 aluminum or 2/0 copper conductors on your house, the
wire that the utility company uses and the distance you are from the
transformer can have a huge impact on voltage drop and dimming. Years ago I
worked at a very old house which had a 200 amp service, terrible dimming
problems. The wire from the utility company ran for 1000 feet before it
reached the transformer and was #6



"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
news
Yes, I'd check the connection on the circuit breaker and on the neutral
buss. However, if it's several reflector floods, like in recessed lights,
it doesn't take much of a surge to cause them to dim slightly



wrote in message
oups.com...
Ok, I think I may have isolated the problem.

There is a single circuit in the house that dims when a high load turns
on anywhere in the house. I managed to cycle the boiler and it caused
the lights to dim. I then powered on a table saw and it also caused
lights on the suspect circuit to dim.

How do I troubleshoot this circuit?

Should I start in the panel and work backwards?

The circuit has aluminum wires that are spliced to copper with the
special purple wire nuts used for AL-CU connections.

Michael

The boiler and the circuit that dims are not on a multiwire branch
circuit.

Michael

According to :
Time to check all of the connections. Especially the neutrals and grounds.
Lights dimming when a motor starts is classic loose neutral.
If your not comfortable working inside the electrical panel hire some one.

Lights _brightening_ is a sign of loose neutral.

Lights dimming is more of a sign of a loose hot.

When you say all the connections, do you mean all the connections in
the panel or all the connections that are on the boiler circuit (which
is a separate circuit)?

I can easily pop open the panel after shutting down the breaker outside
the house (the socket has a breaker) and make sure all the grounds and
neutrals are tight. If they are tight, then what should I check next?

By the way, the issue is dimming and not flickering. I suspect the
latter would be worse although I am not sure.

Likely a poor connection in one of the main hots. Loose connections
don't always show as flickering (flickering is arcing).
--
Chris Lewis, Una confibula non set est
It's not just anyone who gets a Starship Cruiser class named after them.

Try moving the boiler circuit to the top of the panel nearest the
incoming main power leads. That seems help with AC caused light
dimming. Leave the lighting circuit where it is.

Stretch