My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood (veneer?).

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting proper
outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and covered when
siding was installed; the siding does have some venting holes.

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

I don't have an answer for your question, but it also reaches 100+
degrees where I live, and I leave the attic door in the ceiling my
garage cracked open during the summer to help improve circulation.

stevie wrote:

My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood (veneer?).

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting proper
outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and covered when
siding was installed; the siding does have some venting holes.

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

"stevie" wrote in message ...
My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood (veneer?).

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting proper
outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and covered
when
siding was installed; the siding does have some venting holes.

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

I live in Phoenix and the attic fan is set for 140 degrees. Ya all know how
cool it is in Phoenix this time of year. It turns on in the mornings and
shuts off 2-3 hours after sun down.

I can honestly say that I have notice no difference in the attic/home since
installing the fan. Other than the noise it makes.

I am into passive ventilation instead of forced air for the attic.

Call a insulation company and have another layer of insulation added and
forget about it.

I had a home built in 1999 came with R-30 I bought the home in 2004 I added
R-19 all over the house and R-30 over the garage. A/c bill dropped in half
of the previous owner's high bills.
My brother had a similar home and did the same and he even noticed a
difference.
The cost was less than doing it ourselves.

As a guess, it's possibly not getting proper ventilation. You seem
confused as to how the attic might be ventilated. Like, from soffit or
eave vents, or hatchway. Vents under siding? Not likely, but tell us
about area and airflow path. And ... what do you mean by "turbine" if
other than axial-flow fan? Powered? Passive?

One of the best ways to cool a house is to shade it, with whatever
trees possible to the south and SW. Porch shading can be very
effective, too.

To check flow, you could simply calculate anticipated flow rate through
fan (cfm/flow-area = ft/min flow rate) and see how close it is.

HTH,
J

stevie wrote:
My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my
attic is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working
properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood
(veneer?).

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting
proper outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and
covered when siding was installed; the siding does have some venting
holes.

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

Well attics do get hot.

My only question is how many square inches of inlet (low vents in to
soffits or gable ends) do you have and how many square inches of high vents
(your turbines plus whatever) do you have? You have to have someplace for
the cool air to come in.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

The turbines provide excellent ventilation, although they will need
periodic maintenance. Check for open soffit vents and clear out
insect nests, insulation, debris, etc.

Calculate your attic floor space and multiply by 0.4%. The result
should be the minimum total ventilation area (intake plus out). With
triple-digit summer temperatures, I'd increase the percent to 1%.

On Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:56:09 -0500, "stevie" wrote:

My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood (veneer?).

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting proper
outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and covered when
siding was installed; the siding does have some venting holes.

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

The turbines are at the top, near the ridge. That's where the hot air
escapes. Now, where does it enter? There should be vents in the soffits
under the eves. Make sure they are not covered, inside or out. A well
ventilated roof will make your shingles last longer, may reduced AC costs,
and will prevent ice dams in winter.


"stevie" wrote in message ...
My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood (veneer?).

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting proper
outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and covered
when
siding was installed; the siding does have some venting holes.

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

In alt.home.repair on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:56:09 -0500 "stevie"
posted:

My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood (veneer?).

No, veneer is wood glued to wood. Most furniture is made of veneered
wood, or for short, veneer. They use pretty, probably expensive wood,
and glue it to cheaper, less pretty wood. I guess even particle board
can be covered by veneer,

And I supppose some might call particle covered by Formica, or
something else that isn't wood, veneer, but I hope not.

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting proper

The siding, no.

outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and covered when
siding was installed;

In that case, yes.

Ignore the no.

the siding does have some venting holes.

Are then as big as and directly over the original outside vents?

Where were the original vents? In the soffitts (under the eaves)?

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

If it is not hotter than other attics, with the same weather outside.

That's the bottom line, although measurements of the amount of venting
will probably tell you how far away you are from where you should be.



BTW (addressed to you and others here), don't turbines work only when
there is at least some breeze? I must admit, I'm confused about why
they are turbines. I guess if there is no breeze, the air is still
supposed to rise and as they pass through the turbine, they set it
spinning. What is the point of that? Why not just have a hole in the
roof with a cap to keep out the rain, and a place for the air to
escape sideways, in all directions, under the cap?

Wouldn't the energy expended to make the turbine spin slow down the
exit of the hot air? Of course you have 3, which I guess would make
up for that.


Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

In alt.home.repair on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:01:09 -0700 "SQLit"
posted:


"stevie" wrote in message ...
My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood (veneer?).

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting proper
outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and covered
when
siding was installed; the siding does have some venting holes.

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

I live in Phoenix and the attic fan is set for 140 degrees. Ya all know how

I know you live in Phoenix, and I live in Baltimore, where it isn't so
hot, but 140 strikes me as high. It's been 22 years, but I vaguely
remember mine being set to 120 when I opened the box.

That doesn't meant to me that my attic is never hotter than 120. I've
thought about raising the temperature setting, but but I figure as it
is, the fan goes on earlier, and doesn't fall behind so soon, and the
attic stays less hot most** of the day than it would be if it turned
on later. I figure it goes off later, when outside air is cooler, so
the attic is left cooler when the fan goes off.

**It's not the maximum temperature of the attic that matters, imo.
It's the average temperature. So even if it is over 120 or 140, the
less time it over those numbers, and the lower it is at any time, the
less heat will be absorbed by the attic floor and transmitted to the
living space beneath. Whether there is lots of insulation or none,
there will still be a difference.

cool it is in Phoenix this time of year. It turns on in the mornings and
shuts off 2-3 hours after sun down.

Mine turns on iirc between 12 and 2 and off by about 10. And that's
in 95 degree weather with a dark brown shingled roof. With hotter
temps in Phoenix, maybe yours should go on by 8 o'clock and off 3 or 4
hours after sundown. What time does the outside become cooler than
the inside?


Of course I think one doesn't want to turn it on too early. I've been
up in the attic at dawn when it was very hot the previous day, and
it's never hot at dawn the next morning. So I wouldn't want to turn
the fan on at 100, I sort of think, if it was already 110 outside.
But I don't think that could happen with a brown roof. What about a
white or light colored roof?

I can honestly say that I have notice no difference in the attic/home since
installing the fan. Other than the noise it makes.

If you use AC, it will be hard to tell the difference. When I
installed mine, I wasn't using AC and it took 10 degrees at least off
the temp of the second floor, below the attic. It went down from 95
or 90 to 85 or 80. Maybe as much as from 95 to 80.

Without the fan, I could not bear to go upstairs even for a couple
minutes, after I got home from work, 5:30 or later if I stopped. I
slept in the basement and went up in the morning to shower and get
fresh clothes. After I installed the fan, I slept in my bedroom all
year long. (I hesitate to mention this, but I sleep naked and without
a cover. Both before and after installing the fan. I've found that
it can be 10 degrees hotter at the same level of comfort, if I don't
cover myself with a sheet or anything.)

I am into passive ventilation instead of forced air for the attic.

Call a insulation company and have another layer of insulation added and
forget about it.

I had a home built in 1999 came with R-30 I bought the home in 2004 I added
R-19 all over the house and R-30 over the garage. A/c bill dropped in half
of the previous owner's high bills.

Interesting. I"m not sure frankly what I have in the attic.

Did they have R-30 in 1980?

My brother had a similar home and did the same and he even noticed a
difference.
The cost was less than doing it ourselves.



Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

"meirman" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:01:09 -0700 "SQLit"
posted:


"stevie" wrote in message
...
My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my
attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood
(veneer?).

I'm wondering if the siding is preventing the attic from getting proper
outside air flow. The original outside vents were removed and covered
when
siding was installed; the siding does have some venting holes.

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

I live in Phoenix and the attic fan is set for 140 degrees. Ya all know
how

I know you live in Phoenix, and I live in Baltimore, where it isn't so
hot, but 140 strikes me as high. It's been 22 years, but I vaguely
remember mine being set to 120 when I opened the box.

That doesn't meant to me that my attic is never hotter than 120. I've
thought about raising the temperature setting, but but I figure as it
is, the fan goes on earlier, and doesn't fall behind so soon, and the
attic stays less hot most** of the day than it would be if it turned
on later. I figure it goes off later, when outside air is cooler, so
the attic is left cooler when the fan goes off.

Probably a good idea for you. I just did not want the fan running 24/7 all
summer season.
I also had turbines. It was just a number that I picked. My fan was
purposely over sized but not by enough. I believe if I ever install another
fan I would be a 2X the air recommended.

**It's not the maximum temperature of the attic that matters, imo.
It's the average temperature. So even if it is over 120 or 140, the
less time it over those numbers, and the lower it is at any time, the
less heat will be absorbed by the attic floor and transmitted to the
living space beneath. Whether there is lots of insulation or none,
there will still be a difference.

I believe it is the thermal invasion from the attic to the conditioned areas
of the home. High or median would make little difference. That is where the
blanket of insulation come in.

cool it is in Phoenix this time of year. It turns on in the mornings and
shuts off 2-3 hours after sun down.

Mine turns on iirc between 12 and 2 and off by about 10. And that's
in 95 degree weather with a dark brown shingled roof. With hotter
temps in Phoenix, maybe yours should go on by 8 o'clock and off 3 or 4
hours after sundown.

What time does the outside become cooler than the inside?

Last night it was triple digits until 22:00. It was 85 F this morning



Of course I think one doesn't want to turn it on too early. I've been
up in the attic at dawn when it was very hot the previous day, and
it's never hot at dawn the next morning. So I wouldn't want to turn
the fan on at 100, I sort of think, if it was already 110 outside.
But I don't think that could happen with a brown roof. What about a
white or light colored roof?

I can honestly say that I have notice no difference in the attic/home
since
installing the fan. Other than the noise it makes.

If you use AC, it will be hard to tell the difference. When I
installed mine, I wasn't using AC and it took 10 degrees at least off
the temp of the second floor, below the attic. It went down from 95
or 90 to 85 or 80. Maybe as much as from 95 to 80.

Without the fan, I could not bear to go upstairs even for a couple
minutes, after I got home from work, 5:30 or later if I stopped. I
slept in the basement and went up in the morning to shower and get
fresh clothes. After I installed the fan, I slept in my bedroom all
year long. (I hesitate to mention this, but I sleep naked and without
a cover. Both before and after installing the fan. I've found that
it can be 10 degrees hotter at the same level of comfort, if I don't
cover myself with a sheet or anything.)

I am into passive ventilation instead of forced air for the attic.

Call a insulation company and have another layer of insulation added and
forget about it.

I had a home built in 1999 came with R-30 I bought the home in 2004 I
added
R-19 all over the house and R-30 over the garage. A/c bill dropped in
half
of the previous owner's high bills.

Interesting. I"m not sure frankly what I have in the attic.

Did they have R-30 in 1980?

They had it, they did not install it. 1980 where I live they would have
been using ~ R-24.
My curent house was built in 1979 and R-19 was installed. As soon as I get
the rest of the wiring and plumbing done I am calling the insulator.




snipped-=--------------------------------------

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On Wed, 27 Jul 2005 05:10:57 -0400, meirman
wrote:

No, veneer is wood glued to wood.

Veneer is very thin lumber! ;-


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Version: PGP 7.1

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--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

stevie wrote:

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??

Put one or more digital indoor/outdoor temperature sensors in the attic
and put their displays in the living area so you can easily read the
temp in the attic. I think you can get ones that are wireless nowadays.
Or you can drill a hole in the ceiling in a closet or route a wire
down through a wall.

If you want to get fancy, you could try something like
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/co...meas/ck110.htm

As another poster indicated, make sure you have enought inlet so that
the attic can breathe.

guys,

I have been researching ATTIC heat invasion in the past 3 months. ( i
am in TEXAS)

some findings.. when the temp outside is 100F.. the roof shingles are
reaching 135 -140 F...
now the inside roof temp is 130-135 F... and the attic floor or
surroundings is also. 120-130F...

I have started installing a Radiant Barrier
which I purchased a TRIAL roll 500 sf ft for 80$ from here

http://www.afs-foil.com/radiantbarrier.html

and I am impressed with it.. becuase.. the area underneath the barrier
is 100F while others remain the same i.e 130 F

a rule of thumb is that around 30% our Electricity bill is from AC
costs .. and 30% of AC costs is cooling the heat invasion from the
Roof.. so.. it should get me a 9% savings ROI in my monthly peak
bills..
but I found lot of interesting research saying that it cud be anywhere
from 2% to 15%.. lot of factors.. first of all I dont have access to
all portions of my attic or there is no attic space over the cathedral
Living and one BDR.. also. I dont have any TURBINE vents.. or any
vents.. need to get that installed too

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/radiant/rb_01.html

also..i have 2 HVAC units and both are in the attic so I think I will
save a bit there.. as they are all going to be 30F cooler...

BTW, I bought the 25 inch roll and am stapling it underneath the
rafters.. and it is taking me around 100 Sq feet per 2 hours or so..
trick is to get as much covered up as possible.

"meirman" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:56:09 -0500 "stevie"
posted:

My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my
attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood
(veneer?).

No, veneer is wood glued to wood. Most furniture is made of veneered
wood, or for short, veneer. They use pretty, probably expensive wood,
and glue it to cheaper, less pretty wood. I guess even particle board
can be covered by veneer,

And I supppose some might call particle covered by Formica, or
something else that isn't wood, veneer, but I hope not.

Most brick construction around here is called "brick veneer" -- a
non-structural facing of brick over convential wood framing.

One can have veneer crowns of porcelain placed over one's teeth.

One may even have a veneer of attitude about one's person -- "a veneer of
self-confidence," for example.

I have now seen a second house roofed with a ridge vent for ventilation --
and no soffit vents. A neighbor's roof was done that way, and now a friend
is buying a townhouse that was recently reroofed (the whole complex was
reroofed), and the ridge vent is visible, but there's virtually no roof
overhang, no place to put a soffit vent, so they didn't bother. Parts of
the unit with an attic has what I'd call gable vents if they were in gables,
but I've warned the friend that I expect the '70s style cathedral ceiling in
the living room is going to get very hot, and his new neighbors have
confirmed that.

In alt.home.repair on Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:17:47 GMT "Robert E. Lewis"
posted:


"meirman" wrote in message
.. .
In alt.home.repair on Mon, 25 Jul 2005 12:56:09 -0500 "stevie"
posted:

My attic gets very hot, even with 3 turbines. Although it is very hot
outside (temp about 99-102), an AC service man recently said that my
attic
is still hot considering that all 3 turbines are working properly.

The house is mostly brick and I have vinyl siding over the wood
(veneer?).

No, veneer is wood glued to wood. Most furniture is made of veneered
wood, or for short, veneer. They use pretty, probably expensive wood,
and glue it to cheaper, less pretty wood. I guess even particle board
can be covered by veneer,

And I supppose some might call particle covered by Formica, or
something else that isn't wood, veneer, but I hope not.

Most brick construction around here is called "brick veneer" -- a
non-structural facing of brick over convential wood framing.

One can have veneer crowns of porcelain placed over one's teeth.

One may even have a veneer of attitude about one's person -- "a veneer of
self-confidence," for example.

Point noted. Thanks to you and Johnny.

I have now seen a second house roofed with a ridge vent for ventilation --
and no soffit vents. A neighbor's roof was done that way, and now a friend
is buying a townhouse that was recently reroofed (the whole complex was
reroofed), and the ridge vent is visible, but there's virtually no roof
overhang, no place to put a soffit vent, so they didn't bother. Parts of
the unit with an attic has what I'd call gable vents if they were in gables,
but I've warned the friend that I expect the '70s style cathedral ceiling in
the living room is going to get very hot, and his new neighbors have
confirmed that.

Didn't someone suggest putting vents on the roof itself, at the bottom
of the roof?

I can almost imagine that a ridge vent alone would allow hot air to
escape from one end of the ridge, while outdoor air which is colder
and heavier fell into the house though another end, or part, of the
ridge vent, but people seem to say that doesn't happen or happens very
little.

I can also imagine the hot air sitting inside the roof and barely
getting out because of the colder air on top of it that holds it
dowsn. Individual molecules would escape, but that would be maybe 1%
of what would leave if there were a fan to blow the air out, or even
good circulation.






Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

In alt.home.repair on 27 Jul 2005 13:40:04 -0700
posted:

guys,

I have been researching ATTIC heat invasion in the past 3 months. ( i
am in TEXAS)

some findings.. when the temp outside is 100F.. the roof shingles are
reaching 135 -140 F...
now the inside roof temp is 130-135 F... and the attic floor or
surroundings is also. 120-130F...

I have started installing a Radiant Barrier
which I purchased a TRIAL roll 500 sf ft for 80$ from here

http://www.afs-foil.com/radiantbarrier.html

and I am impressed with it.. becuase.. the area underneath the barrier
is 100F while others remain the same i.e 130 F

a rule of thumb is that around 30% our Electricity bill is from AC
costs .. and 30% of AC costs is cooling the heat invasion from the
Roof.. so.. it should get me a 9% savings ROI in my monthly peak
bills..
but I found lot of interesting research saying that it cud be anywhere
from 2% to 15%.. lot of factors.. first of all I dont have access to
all portions of my attic or there is no attic space over the cathedral
Living and one BDR..

A friend with a cathedral ceiling has iiuc, 2 feet of attic space
there. Either there was an opening, a door, or he cut one, to put in
some lights. This is Baltiore. Contrsuction might be different in
Texas.

Arthur, maybe this will help you. Maybe not, but I'm sending it.


also. I dont have any TURBINE vents.. or any
vents.. need to get that installed too

http://www.ornl.gov/sci/roofs+walls/radiant/rb_01.html

also..i have 2 HVAC units and both are in the attic so I think I will
save a bit there.. as they are all going to be 30F cooler...

BTW, I bought the 25 inch roll and am stapling it underneath the
rafters.. and it is taking me around 100 Sq feet per 2 hours or so..
trick is to get as much covered up as possible.


Meirman
--
If emailing, please let me know whether
or not you are posting the same letter.
Change domain to erols.com, if necessary.

Matt wrote:
stevie wrote:

How can you tell if the attic is getting proper ventilation??


Put one or more digital indoor/outdoor temperature sensors in the attic
and put their displays in the living area so you can easily read the
temp in the attic. I think you can get ones that are wireless nowadays.
Or you can drill a hole in the ceiling in a closet or route a wire down
through a wall.

If you want to get fancy, you could try something like
http://www.electronickits.com/kit/co...meas/ck110.htm

As another poster indicated, make sure you have enought inlet so that
the attic can breathe.

WallMart has a variety of digital wireless
thermometers, especially at Christmas. Should be
able to get the main thermometer plus one remote
for $15-20. They are extremely handy for checking
a variety of appliances and conditions. Uses
include checking the freezer, the freezer
compartment of the refrigerator, main compartment
of refrigerator, attic, garage, inside the parked
car, inside your storage shed, etc.

Most have a high and low temp memory but have to
be manually renewed.

"meirman" wrote in message
...
In alt.home.repair on Thu, 28 Jul 2005 01:17:47 GMT "Robert E. Lewis"
posted:



I have now seen a second house roofed with a ridge vent for
ventilation --
and no soffit vents. A neighbor's roof was done that way, and now a
friend
is buying a townhouse that was recently reroofed (the whole complex was
reroofed), and the ridge vent is visible, but there's virtually no roof
overhang, no place to put a soffit vent, so they didn't bother. Parts of
the unit with an attic has what I'd call gable vents if they were in
gables,
but I've warned the friend that I expect the '70s style cathedral ceiling
in
the living room is going to get very hot, and his new neighbors have
confirmed that.

Didn't someone suggest putting vents on the roof itself, at the bottom
of the roof?

I have suggested to the friend buying the townhouse that he put in some sort
of roof vents over the part of the with an attic (one of the gable vents set
up high in a wall in the attic space seems to be almost directly above the
outdoor condenser unit of the central a/c, so I imagine it may be sucking
hot air into the attic in summertime). Some of the other units have roof
vents (none seem very low on the roof) in addition to the fairly short
section of ridge vent, so apparently the condo management does allow that.

I don't know what sort of retrofit my friend might be able to do to the roof
over the living roof, where there's a sloping ceiling and no attic (not even
any ridge vent there -- the roof slopes up, is interrupted by an atrium,
then resumes it's slope on the far side, where the ridge and ridge vent are
located). I'm guessing the condo association, when the roof was replaced
(within the past two years) did not install a radiant barrier.

On the neighbor's house, I suggested she make the roofer come back and put
some soffit vents in (he did some patching of soffits and fascia, IIRC). I
don't think the neighbor understood the basic heat-rises principles of
soffit/ridge venting, so she had him come back to re-work some unsightly
flashing and nothing else. (sigh)

--

Robert