Hello all,

We're in the process of building an outdoor BBQ, using a Weber Summit
Gold Built-In gas grill
(http://www.weber.com/bbq/pub/grill/2..._sum_gdbi.aspx).

On the structure itself that is being built, I would like to use a tile
countertop surface. However, my mason has no experience tiling on
exterior surfaces and doesn't know the exact materials to use.

I'm located in Pennsylvania, which has the full array of weather
conditions. Hot in the summer (today alone it was 95), and freezing
and snow in the winter. So with this major temperature swing in mind,
what I'm looking for advice on is this:

1. What type of tile would be best for this countertop surface, that
will hold up to the elements?
2. Is there any special mortar addative that will need to be used when
adhesing this tile?
3. Same goes for grout... any special grout or grout addative that
should be used to allow for the temp changes?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin G.

Kevin G. wrote:
Hello all,

We're in the process of building an outdoor BBQ, using a Weber Summit
Gold Built-In gas grill
(http://www.weber.com/bbq/pub/grill/2..._sum_gdbi.aspx).

On the structure itself that is being built, I would like to use a tile
countertop surface. However, my mason has no experience tiling on
exterior surfaces and doesn't know the exact materials to use.

I'm located in Pennsylvania, which has the full array of weather
conditions. Hot in the summer (today alone it was 95), and freezing
and snow in the winter. So with this major temperature swing in mind,
what I'm looking for advice on is this:

1. What type of tile would be best for this countertop surface, that
will hold up to the elements?
2. Is there any special mortar addative that will need to be used when
adhesing this tile?
3. Same goes for grout... any special grout or grout addative that
should be used to allow for the temp changes?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin G.



Use porcelain tile and a modified thinset, installed over an even level
mortar bed. Grout joints to be 1/8 - 3/16" using standard sanded grout,
no additive necessary.

Or install a solid surface granite top.

Either way - cover it the winter. Especially if it's out in the open.

G Henslee wrote:

Use porcelain tile and a modified thinset, installed over an even level
mortar bed. Grout joints to be 1/8 - 3/16" using standard sanded grout,
no additive necessary.

Why would you recommend using a latex modified thinset and then using
non-modified grout?

The grout is the first line of defense against moisture entry, and
thereby freeze/thaw related problems, and staining. Using latex
modified grout offers more protection, is pretty much standard at this
point, negligibly more money, and is only more work if you're not
careful during the cleanup. At the very least the grout should be
sealed - this is a BBQ after all.

Porcelain tile is also not a given. The Tile Council of America is a
good place to start your research: http://www.tileusa.com/faq_main.htm

Another good place are the John Bridge Tile Forums:
http://johnbridge.com/vbulletin/index.php

R

RicodJour wrote:
G Henslee wrote:

Use porcelain tile and a modified thinset, installed over an even level
mortar bed. Grout joints to be 1/8 - 3/16" using standard sanded grout,
no additive necessary.


Why would you recommend using a latex modified thinset and then using
non-modified grout?

Because I always do. Perhaps because I'm experienced in a milder climate
but latex modified grout is a waste of time if 100% waterproofing is
desired. This is the ticket, I could have posted before. But then you
wouldn't have had a reason to give us your 'expertise' on the subject of
grout.
http://www.anti-hydro.com/info_map.htm


The grout is the first line of defense against moisture entry, and
thereby freeze/thaw related problems, and staining. Using latex
modified grout offers more protection, is pretty much standard at this
point, negligibly more money, and is only more work if you're not
careful during the cleanup.



At the very least the grout should be
sealed - this is a BBQ after all.

No need with this. http://www.anti-hydro.com/info_map.htm


Porcelain tile is also not a given.

wtf, neither is any guarantee you'll wake up tomorrow.

Go to the link YOU posted and read a little. Particularly the section
on porcelain.

http://www.tileusa.com/faq_main.htm

- end of subject

G Henslee wrote:
RicodJour wrote:
G Henslee wrote:

Use porcelain tile and a modified thinset, installed over an even level
mortar bed. Grout joints to be 1/8 - 3/16" using standard sanded grout,
no additive necessary.


Why would you recommend using a latex modified thinset and then using
non-modified grout?

Because I always do. Perhaps because I'm experienced in a milder climate
but latex modified grout is a waste of time if 100% waterproofing is
desired. This is the ticket, I could have posted before. But then you
wouldn't have had a reason to give us your 'expertise' on the subject of
grout.
http://www.anti-hydro.com/info_map.htm

I am familiar with colder climate tiling. I recommended the latex
modified grout because of that experience. I don't recommend outside
of my, ahem, comfort range.

That Anti-Hydro link you provided has tons of products, only one
applicable to grout that I noticed:

Spec. 1-18: (Go To TOP)
"Anti-Hydro"=AE For Thin Set Mortars & Tile Grouts: A Totally Unique,
Non Staining Admixture That Has Been Extensively Used In Tile Grouts
And Thin Set Mortars To Dramatically Enhance Durability, Hardness,
Waterproofing, Bond, Mildew Resistance, Speed And Economy Of
Installation Of tiles, marbles, glass blocks.

That _is_ an additive. Why not just buy the latex-modified grout and
be done with it? 100% waterproofing isn't necessary, especially if the
OP takes your advice to keep the thing covered in the winter.

The grout is the first line of defense against moisture entry, and
thereby freeze/thaw related problems, and staining. Using latex
modified grout offers more protection, is pretty much standard at this
point, negligibly more money, and is only more work if you're not
careful during the cleanup.

At the very least the grout should be
sealed - this is a BBQ after all.

No need with this. http://www.anti-hydro.com/info_map.htm

Right. Use the right additive in the grout and you won't have a
problem.

Porcelain tile is also not a given.

wtf, neither is any guarantee you'll wake up tomorrow.

I know, but I plan on it anyway.

Go to the link YOU posted and read a little. Particularly the section
on porcelain.
http://www.tileusa.com/faq_main.htm

Since the OP was asking about the tile job standing up to the elements
in a colder climate than you're used to, you may have missed the
section on frost. The pertinent link is this one:
http://www.tileusa.com/Frostresistance_faq.htm

Your original post omitted the additive that the recent post
recommended. The porcelain tile is the safe bet, but it's not the only
choice.

There's no argument here, G. =20

R

RicodJour wrote:
G Henslee wrote:

RicodJour wrote:

G Henslee wrote:


Use porcelain tile and a modified thinset, installed over an even level
mortar bed. Grout joints to be 1/8 - 3/16" using standard sanded grout,
no additive necessary.


Why would you recommend using a latex modified thinset and then using
non-modified grout?

Because I always do. Perhaps because I'm experienced in a milder climate
but latex modified grout is a waste of time if 100% waterproofing is
desired. This is the ticket, I could have posted before. But then you
wouldn't have had a reason to give us your 'expertise' on the subject of
grout.
http://www.anti-hydro.com/info_map.htm


I am familiar with colder climate tiling. I recommended the latex
modified grout because of that experience. I don't recommend outside
of my, ahem, comfort range.

That Anti-Hydro link you provided has tons of products, only one
applicable to grout that I noticed:

Spec. 1-18: (Go To TOP)
"Anti-Hydro"® For Thin Set Mortars & Tile Grouts: A Totally Unique,
Non Staining Admixture That Has Been Extensively Used In Tile Grouts
And Thin Set Mortars To Dramatically Enhance Durability, Hardness,
Waterproofing, Bond, Mildew Resistance, Speed And Economy Of
Installation Of tiles, marbles, glass blocks.

That _is_ an additive. Why not just buy the latex-modified grout and
be done with it? 100% waterproofing isn't necessary, especially if the
OP takes your advice to keep the thing covered in the winter.


The grout is the first line of defense against moisture entry, and
thereby freeze/thaw related problems, and staining. Using latex
modified grout offers more protection, is pretty much standard at this
point, negligibly more money, and is only more work if you're not
careful during the cleanup.

At the very least the grout should be
sealed - this is a BBQ after all.

No need with this. http://www.anti-hydro.com/info_map.htm


Right. Use the right additive in the grout and you won't have a
problem.


Porcelain tile is also not a given.

wtf, neither is any guarantee you'll wake up tomorrow.


I know, but I plan on it anyway.


Go to the link YOU posted and read a little. Particularly the section
on porcelain.
http://www.tileusa.com/faq_main.htm


Since the OP was asking about the tile job standing up to the elements
in a colder climate than you're used to, you may have missed the
section on frost. The pertinent link is this one:
http://www.tileusa.com/Frostresistance_faq.htm

Your original post omitted the additive that the recent post
recommended. The porcelain tile is the safe bet, but it's not the only
choice.

There's no argument here, G.

R


You've made some valid points. No argument here either. I've used both
polymer modified grout as well as the standard. I do advocate the
Anti-Hydro from experience. You may want to try it sometime. It's for
unsanded grout too. If you ever do a wide joint with unsanded it works
well for that as it hardens nicely. Of course when I've done that I
pre-grout with sanded for a 'base', and leave the joint low enough for
the unsanded to follow next day.

Yep, cya tomorrow ;o)

OK Kevin - While G Henslee and RicodJour duke it out over add mixtures I'll
sum up some things.

Cover it when expecting freeze thaw. This is what will kill the tile the
fastest. Water will seep into the hairline cracks between the grout and the
tile, freeze and cause cracking.

Use a grout additive like what G Henslee recommended in his link or get
grout with it already in the mix. This will ensure a better bond.

Where in PA are you? I am from PA. I have bought tile many places but have
had great advice and service from these folks... http://www.mayotile.com/

Their website is lame. I cant remember the peoples names but they were very
helpful when talking about additives, latex modified this and that, etc. If
they are convenient stop by and check them out. Their showroom is kind of
small with tons of samples crammed into several rooms. Figure on browsing
for a while.

Good luck - Take some pictures when complete and post them for us to see.


"Kevin G." wrote in message
ups.com...
Hello all,

We're in the process of building an outdoor BBQ, using a Weber Summit
Gold Built-In gas grill
(http://www.weber.com/bbq/pub/grill/2..._sum_gdbi.aspx).

On the structure itself that is being built, I would like to use a tile
countertop surface. However, my mason has no experience tiling on
exterior surfaces and doesn't know the exact materials to use.

I'm located in Pennsylvania, which has the full array of weather
conditions. Hot in the summer (today alone it was 95), and freezing
and snow in the winter. So with this major temperature swing in mind,
what I'm looking for advice on is this:

1. What type of tile would be best for this countertop surface, that
will hold up to the elements?
2. Is there any special mortar addative that will need to be used when
adhesing this tile?
3. Same goes for grout... any special grout or grout addative that
should be used to allow for the temp changes?

Any help on this would be greatly appreciated.

Kevin G.