Hope this isn't too OT but I thought someone here might have an idea for
me. I'm currently renovating a 100+ year old brick building. Immediately
behind the building, I'd noticed some subsidence in roughly an 'L' shape
when I bought the property. Yesterday, I finally got around to taking a
shovel to the loose the sinkhole that had been forming (over years) in the
lower leg of the 'L'.

In the ground (subsurface) is a brick retaining wall along one side of
the lower leg of the 'L' with two sewer pipes sticking through it. The
pipes are about 12-16" below ground level and appear to have originally
terminated there (inside the 'L'). We've dug five feet down and have yet
to reach the bottom of the retaining wall.

My initial thought was that this was a sewage pit that emptied into one of
the many caves or underground streams that exist in the area. This
occurred to me as a bit fanciful and doesn't necessarily explain the 'L'
shape. Someone else however, has suggested that it could have been
an old backfilled septic tank. The latter idea seems a bit peculiar,
though. A septic from the early 1890's, made of brick with no means by
which to drain? City sewer has been available here since the dawn of time
and the functioning sewage pipe for this building lives 6-8' below ground.
To my knowledge, there wouldn't have been a method to empty a septic
'tank' in the 1890's so there would most certainly have been capacity
issues if this were true. This is not to mention the stench it would have
generated, esp. given it's proximity to the building.

Any other ideas? I checked an old map (1948) at City Hall and there's no
record of another (above-ground) structure having ever been in this spot.
The lower leg of the 'L' is about 6' long x 4' wide and the back of the
'L' is approx. 9' x 4'.

It's shape, size and the construction of the aforementioned wall
effectively rule out any prospect of it being the remains of an outhouse.

I'm stumped and the backhoe doesn't get here until next weekend...

-BB

Sounds like an old cistern.


"Belial Black" wrote in message
news
Hope this isn't too OT but I thought someone here
might have an idea for
me. I'm currently renovating a 100+ year old brick
building. Immediately
behind the building, I'd noticed some subsidence in
roughly an 'L' shape
when I bought the property. Yesterday, I finally got
around to taking a
shovel to the loose the sinkhole that had been
forming (over years) in the
lower leg of the 'L'.

In the ground (subsurface) is a brick retaining wall
along one side of
the lower leg of the 'L' with two sewer pipes
sticking through it. The
pipes are about 12-16" below ground level and appear
to have originally
terminated there (inside the 'L'). We've dug five
feet down and have yet
to reach the bottom of the retaining wall.

My initial thought was that this was a sewage pit
that emptied into one of
the many caves or underground streams that exist in
the area. This
occurred to me as a bit fanciful and doesn't
necessarily explain the 'L'
shape. Someone else however, has suggested that it
could have been
an old backfilled septic tank. The latter idea seems
a bit peculiar,
though. A septic from the early 1890's, made of brick
with no means by
which to drain? City sewer has been available here
since the dawn of time
and the functioning sewage pipe for this building
lives 6-8' below ground.
To my knowledge, there wouldn't have been a method to
empty a septic
'tank' in the 1890's so there would most certainly
have been capacity
issues if this were true. This is not to mention the
stench it would have
generated, esp. given it's proximity to the building.

Any other ideas? I checked an old map (1948) at City
Hall and there's no
record of another (above-ground) structure having
ever been in this spot.
The lower leg of the 'L' is about 6' long x 4' wide
and the back of the
'L' is approx. 9' x 4'.

It's shape, size and the construction of the
aforementioned wall
effectively rule out any prospect of it being the
remains of an outhouse.

I'm stumped and the backhoe doesn't get here until
next weekend...

-BB

If you are sure they are sewer type piping, they could be lines to
an old septic tank which would have been fairly large or a dry
well that took storm drainage away from the building. Almost lost
a backhoe when the heavy bridge planks covering an old abandoned
septic for a school finally rotted enough to start to cave in.
They had just tied the building to the sanitary sewer system and
left the old tank in the ground.

(top posted for your convenience)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)




"Belial Black" wrote in message
news
Hope this isn't too OT but I thought someone here might have an
idea for
me. I'm currently renovating a 100+ year old brick building.
Immediately
behind the building, I'd noticed some subsidence in roughly an
'L' shape
when I bought the property. Yesterday, I finally got around to
taking a
shovel to the loose the sinkhole that had been forming (over
years) in the
lower leg of the 'L'.

In the ground (subsurface) is a brick retaining wall along one
side of
the lower leg of the 'L' with two sewer pipes sticking through
it. The
pipes are about 12-16" below ground level and appear to have
originally
terminated there (inside the 'L'). We've dug five feet down and
have yet
to reach the bottom of the retaining wall.

My initial thought was that this was a sewage pit that emptied
into one of
the many caves or underground streams that exist in the area.
This
occurred to me as a bit fanciful and doesn't necessarily explain
the 'L'
shape. Someone else however, has suggested that it could have
been
an old backfilled septic tank. The latter idea seems a bit
peculiar,
though. A septic from the early 1890's, made of brick with no
means by
which to drain? City sewer has been available here since the
dawn of time
and the functioning sewage pipe for this building lives 6-8'
below ground.
To my knowledge, there wouldn't have been a method to empty a
septic
'tank' in the 1890's so there would most certainly have been
capacity
issues if this were true. This is not to mention the stench it
would have
generated, esp. given it's proximity to the building.

Any other ideas? I checked an old map (1948) at City Hall and
there's no
record of another (above-ground) structure having ever been in
this spot.
The lower leg of the 'L' is about 6' long x 4' wide and the back
of the
'L' is approx. 9' x 4'.

It's shape, size and the construction of the aforementioned wall
effectively rule out any prospect of it being the remains of an
outhouse.

I'm stumped and the backhoe doesn't get here until next
weekend...

-BB

Have you tried contacting your local historical society? Could be they
would have photos or other records of the property. Sounds like a
mighty sturdy structure - old root cellar or "summer kitchen" with a
cistern?

In my house, built in the late 50's, the basement drains run into a
pipe that exits into a dry well build with losely stacked bricks, with
no mortar, in the front yard. The septic system is in the backyard and
the rest of the house is connected to that.

So as someone else said, it could be an old, filled in, dry well.

dickm



On Fri, 20 May 2005 21:59:04 -0500, Belial Black
wrote:

Hope this isn't too OT but I thought someone here might have an idea for
me. I'm currently renovating a 100+ year old brick building. Immediately
behind the building, I'd noticed some subsidence in roughly an 'L' shape
when I bought the property. Yesterday, I finally got around to taking a
shovel to the loose the sinkhole that had been forming (over years) in the
lower leg of the 'L'.

In the ground (subsurface) is a brick retaining wall along one side of
the lower leg of the 'L' with two sewer pipes sticking through it. The
pipes are about 12-16" below ground level and appear to have originally
terminated there (inside the 'L'). We've dug five feet down and have yet
to reach the bottom of the retaining wall.

My initial thought was that this was a sewage pit that emptied into one of
the many caves or underground streams that exist in the area. This
occurred to me as a bit fanciful and doesn't necessarily explain the 'L'
shape. Someone else however, has suggested that it could have been
an old backfilled septic tank. The latter idea seems a bit peculiar,
though. A septic from the early 1890's, made of brick with no means by
which to drain? City sewer has been available here since the dawn of time
and the functioning sewage pipe for this building lives 6-8' below ground.
To my knowledge, there wouldn't have been a method to empty a septic
'tank' in the 1890's so there would most certainly have been capacity
issues if this were true. This is not to mention the stench it would have
generated, esp. given it's proximity to the building.

Any other ideas? I checked an old map (1948) at City Hall and there's no
record of another (above-ground) structure having ever been in this spot.
The lower leg of the 'L' is about 6' long x 4' wide and the back of the
'L' is approx. 9' x 4'.

It's shape, size and the construction of the aforementioned wall
effectively rule out any prospect of it being the remains of an outhouse.

I'm stumped and the backhoe doesn't get here until next weekend...

-BB