Hi all,

I'm getting really to insulate and drywall a portion of my basement in an
older (1950's) house. The basement foundation is cinder block, that looks
like it has been covered with some kind of a tar-like sealer, and then
plastered.

I have been monitoring the walls for the last 8 months and there are no
water issues. I do however have some moderate efflorescence on one of the
four walls. This wall is adjacent to the driveway beside my house. Some of
the driveway stones do need to be reseated to properly grade away from the
house, and this is on my list of stuff to do this summer. That should reduce
the efflorescence but probably not eliminate it.

Because I dont have access to the raw foundation wall, a sealer like Drylok
is not really an option. Nevertheless, I plan to coat the surface
with an efflorescence-fighting coating anyways. Of course, these kinds of
treatments only work for a limited time (5 years).

Anyways, bottom line - can I proceed with insulating over this? I was
thinking of using a closed cell spray foam insulation. Would that be
recommended for this situation?

Thanks!

Efloresence is water pushing through. The only way to monitor it is with
a moisture meter. Seal in moisture leaking in and mold will grow. There
is no efloresence stopping product that I know of. Stop the water from
the outside.

Something like this: http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=77
claims to stop efflorescence.

I believe there are serious implications to consider when disturbing the
earth (to waterproof the exterior) down to the bottom of the foundation when
its under a driveway. I dont want my driveway sinking 5 years from now.

If I use a vapor retarder (like a spray foam) rather than a vapor barrier,
it seems to me the small amount of moisture coming through the wall should
be able to dry to the interior. But I guess thats the heart of my question.


"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Efloresence is water pushing through. The only way to monitor it is with
a moisture meter. Seal in moisture leaking in and mold will grow. There
is no efloresence stopping product that I know of. Stop the water from
the outside.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 17:39:35 -0400, "bob smith" wrote:

Something like this: http://www.zinsser.com/product_detail.asp?ProductID=77
claims to stop efflorescence.
Provided you get the existing efflorescence off the surface first by
the usual means===muriatic acid wash. What is sorely needed is a
means of killing it without the fumes rusting out everything in the
basement---inluding your lungs.
http://www.zinsser.com/pdf/TDB/WaterTiteTDB.pdf

I believe there are serious implications to consider when disturbing the
earth (to waterproof the exterior) down to the bottom of the foundation when
its under a driveway.
I thin just the issue of disturbing the earth is a problem. Had a
huge tree, next to the basement, roll on the house during Isabel.
Impossible to get the stump out and/or get to all walls of this
partial basement(Trust me), So, my water problems have started anew.

On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:08:27 -0400, "bob smith" wrote:

Hi all,

I'm getting really to insulate and drywall a portion of my basement in an
older (1950's) house. The basement foundation is cinder block, that looks
like it has been covered with some kind of a tar-like sealer, and then
plastered.

I have been monitoring the walls for the last 8 months and there are no
water issues. I do however have some moderate efflorescence on one of the
four walls. This wall is adjacent to the driveway beside my house. Some of
the driveway stones do need to be reseated to properly grade away from the
house, and this is on my list of stuff to do this summer. That should reduce
the efflorescence but probably not eliminate it.

Because I dont have access to the raw foundation wall, a sealer like Drylok
is not really an option. Nevertheless, I plan to coat the surface
with an efflorescence-fighting coating anyways. Of course, these kinds of
treatments only work for a limited time (5 years).

Anyways, bottom line - can I proceed with insulating over this? I was
thinking of using a closed cell spray foam insulation. Would that be
recommended for this situation?

Thanks!

When you insulate the efflorescence wall, you are going to grow some
super mold that may or may not be deadly. Currently, you are drying
off the surface by exposing it and preventing the growth of mold.

My solution would be to place a mesh over the wall prior to applying
the insulation and then permit the top and bottom of the mesh to be
exposed to the room so that air would flow thru the mesh. This
procedure is used in many foam foundation product installations to
prevent mold/moisture.

"JimL" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:08:27 -0400, "bob smith" wrote:

Hi all,

I'm getting really to insulate and drywall a portion of my basement in an
older (1950's) house. The basement foundation is cinder block, that looks
like it has been covered with some kind of a tar-like sealer, and then
plastered.

I have been monitoring the walls for the last 8 months and there are no
water issues. I do however have some moderate efflorescence on one of the
four walls. This wall is adjacent to the driveway beside my house. Some
of
the driveway stones do need to be reseated to properly grade away from
the
house, and this is on my list of stuff to do this summer. That should
reduce
the efflorescence but probably not eliminate it.

Because I dont have access to the raw foundation wall, a sealer like
Drylok
is not really an option. Nevertheless, I plan to coat the surface
with an efflorescence-fighting coating anyways. Of course, these kinds of
treatments only work for a limited time (5 years).

Anyways, bottom line - can I proceed with insulating over this? I was
thinking of using a closed cell spray foam insulation. Would that be
recommended for this situation?

Thanks!

When you insulate the efflorescence wall, you are going to grow some
super mold that may or may not be deadly. Currently, you are drying
off the surface by exposing it and preventing the growth of mold.

My solution would be to place a mesh over the wall prior to applying
the insulation and then permit the top and bottom of the mesh to be
exposed to the room so that air would flow thru the mesh. This
procedure is used in many foam foundation product installations to
prevent mold/moisture.

Not a bad idea, thanks. However, these foams are typically referred to as
'vapour retarders' not vapor barriers. As such, they do allow
moisture to dry to the inside at a controlled rate. Is that not adequate?

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:30:09 -0400, "bob smith" wrote:


"JimL" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:08:27 -0400, "bob smith" wrote:

Hi all,

I'm getting really to insulate and drywall a portion of my basement in an
older (1950's) house. The basement foundation is cinder block, that looks
like it has been covered with some kind of a tar-like sealer, and then
plastered.

I have been monitoring the walls for the last 8 months and there are no
water issues. I do however have some moderate efflorescence on one of the
four walls. This wall is adjacent to the driveway beside my house. Some
of
the driveway stones do need to be reseated to properly grade away from
the
house, and this is on my list of stuff to do this summer. That should
reduce
the efflorescence but probably not eliminate it.

Because I dont have access to the raw foundation wall, a sealer like
Drylok
is not really an option. Nevertheless, I plan to coat the surface
with an efflorescence-fighting coating anyways. Of course, these kinds of
treatments only work for a limited time (5 years).

Anyways, bottom line - can I proceed with insulating over this? I was
thinking of using a closed cell spray foam insulation. Would that be
recommended for this situation?

Thanks!

When you insulate the efflorescence wall, you are going to grow some
super mold that may or may not be deadly. Currently, you are drying
off the surface by exposing it and preventing the growth of mold.

My solution would be to place a mesh over the wall prior to applying
the insulation and then permit the top and bottom of the mesh to be
exposed to the room so that air would flow thru the mesh. This
procedure is used in many foam foundation product installations to
prevent mold/moisture.

Not a bad idea, thanks. However, these foams are typically referred to as
'vapour retarders' not vapor barriers. As such, they do allow
moisture to dry to the inside at a controlled rate. Is that not adequate?

Mold can be deadly so don't try to win a semantics discussion and
lose your family's health.

I had fears of mold when I remodeled my basement. Although I've never had a
spot of water, I worried that some time in future anything can change and I
might end up with issues. My solution was to build my walls 3.5 inches out
from block on all walls that were buried. Lost a little space but the air is
moving behind the wall real nice.
"bob smith" wrote in message ...

"JimL" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:08:27 -0400, "bob smith" wrote:

Hi all,

I'm getting really to insulate and drywall a portion of my basement in
an
older (1950's) house. The basement foundation is cinder block, that
looks
like it has been covered with some kind of a tar-like sealer, and then
plastered.

I have been monitoring the walls for the last 8 months and there are no
water issues. I do however have some moderate efflorescence on one of
the
four walls. This wall is adjacent to the driveway beside my house. Some
of
the driveway stones do need to be reseated to properly grade away from
the
house, and this is on my list of stuff to do this summer. That should
reduce
the efflorescence but probably not eliminate it.

Because I dont have access to the raw foundation wall, a sealer like
Drylok
is not really an option. Nevertheless, I plan to coat the surface
with an efflorescence-fighting coating anyways. Of course, these kinds
of
treatments only work for a limited time (5 years).

Anyways, bottom line - can I proceed with insulating over this? I was
thinking of using a closed cell spray foam insulation. Would that be
recommended for this situation?

Thanks!

When you insulate the efflorescence wall, you are going to grow some
super mold that may or may not be deadly. Currently, you are drying
off the surface by exposing it and preventing the growth of mold.

My solution would be to place a mesh over the wall prior to applying
the insulation and then permit the top and bottom of the mesh to be
exposed to the room so that air would flow thru the mesh. This
procedure is used in many foam foundation product installations to
prevent mold/moisture.

Not a bad idea, thanks. However, these foams are typically referred to as
'vapour retarders' not vapor barriers. As such, they do allow
moisture to dry to the inside at a controlled rate. Is that not adequate?

"Beeper" wrote:
I had fears of mold when I remodeled my basement. Although I've never had a
spot of water, I worried that some time in future anything can change and I
might end up with issues. My solution was to build my walls 3.5 inches out
from block on all walls that were buried. Lost a little space but the air is
moving behind the wall real nice.

How do you get air moving in that 3.5 inch cavity? How do you know it
is moving "nicely"?

When the humidity stays above 75% for long periods of time - that is
when mold will grow. You can kill it with a solution of 75% water and
25% chlorine bleach. Then ventilate it or run a dehumidifier. We have a
summer home in PA. In the winter when the heat is running - the humidity
in the basement stays low. In the summer - we run a dehumidifier to keep
it fresh or open several window and run an exhaust fan.

In our Florida home - we must run the AC all summer when we are away. If
we do not the humidity goes up and mold will grow in the house. In the
winter - it is not a problem.

On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 20:21:30 -0400, Harry Everhart
wrote:

"Beeper" wrote:
I had fears of mold when I remodeled my basement. Although I've never had a
spot of water, I worried that some time in future anything can change and I
might end up with issues. My solution was to build my walls 3.5 inches out
from block on all walls that were buried. Lost a little space but the air is
moving behind the wall real nice.

How do you get air moving in that 3.5 inch cavity? How do you know it
is moving "nicely"?

If you provide a way for room air to enter the cavity at the bottom
and to exit the cavity at the top then simple physics will handle the
movement for you. If the basement is not otherwise conditioned, then
a 24 hr a day (ceiling) fan would give extra insurance at little
additional cost, but I might go for a cheap wall refrigerated unit if
I lived in So. Florida.




When the humidity stays above 75% for long periods of time - that is
when mold will grow. You can kill it with a solution of 75% water and
25% chlorine bleach. Then ventilate it or run a dehumidifier. We have a
summer home in PA. In the winter when the heat is running - the humidity
in the basement stays low. In the summer - we run a dehumidifier to keep
it fresh or open several window and run an exhaust fan.

In our Florida home - we must run the AC all summer when we are away. If
we do not the humidity goes up and mold will grow in the house. In the
winter - it is not a problem.

Although I have central air(3 1/2 ton), I added a 5600 btu
refrigerated wall unit (11 eer) that solves that problem and does so
very economically. It cut my summer electric bill in half and
we are so much more comfortable, too.

"JimL" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 12 Apr 2005 12:30:09 -0400, "bob smith" wrote:


"JimL" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 11 Apr 2005 14:08:27 -0400, "bob smith" wrote:

Hi all,

I'm getting really to insulate and drywall a portion of my basement in
an
older (1950's) house. The basement foundation is cinder block, that
looks
like it has been covered with some kind of a tar-like sealer, and then
plastered.

I have been monitoring the walls for the last 8 months and there are
no
water issues. I do however have some moderate efflorescence on one of
the
four walls. This wall is adjacent to the driveway beside my house.
Some
of
the driveway stones do need to be reseated to properly grade away from
the
house, and this is on my list of stuff to do this summer. That should
reduce
the efflorescence but probably not eliminate it.

Because I dont have access to the raw foundation wall, a sealer like
Drylok
is not really an option. Nevertheless, I plan to coat the surface
with an efflorescence-fighting coating anyways. Of course, these kinds
of
treatments only work for a limited time (5 years).

Anyways, bottom line - can I proceed with insulating over this? I was
thinking of using a closed cell spray foam insulation. Would that be
recommended for this situation?

Thanks!

When you insulate the efflorescence wall, you are going to grow some
super mold that may or may not be deadly. Currently, you are drying
off the surface by exposing it and preventing the growth of mold.

My solution would be to place a mesh over the wall prior to applying
the insulation and then permit the top and bottom of the mesh to be
exposed to the room so that air would flow thru the mesh. This
procedure is used in many foam foundation product installations to
prevent mold/moisture.

Not a bad idea, thanks. However, these foams are typically referred to as
'vapour retarders' not vapor barriers. As such, they do allow
moisture to dry to the inside at a controlled rate. Is that not adequate?

Mold can be deadly so don't try to win a semantics discussion and
lose your family's health.

My point was not to argue semantics. a 6mil vapor barrier sheet has a perm
of 0.1. Closed-cell foam has a perm of around 1.4, and
some open-cell foam can be over 10. So they do allow the moisture to dry to
the inside. Also, this page:

http://oee.nrcan.gc.ca/keep_heat_in/...PrintView=N&Te
xt=N

Specifically mentions that spray foam is a good solution for spaces with
some moisture problems.

I had fears of mold when I remodeled my basement. Although I've never had a
spot of water, I worried that some time in future anything can change and I
might end up with issues. My solution was to build my walls 3.5 inches out
from block on all walls that were buried. Lost a little space but the air is
moving behind the wall real nice.

How do you get air moving in that 3.5 inch cavity? How do you know it
is moving "nicely"?

If you provide a way for room air to enter the cavity at the bottom
and to exit the cavity at the top then simple physics will handle the
movement for you. If the basement is not otherwise conditioned, then
a 24 hr a day (ceiling) fan would give extra insurance at little
additional cost, but I might go for a cheap wall refrigerated unit if
I lived in So. Florida.

If you have a 3" cavity between the foundation and the basement
walls, haven't you just built yourself a mold-farm? (And a lovely
space for mice, to boot?) and if you exchance air between that space
and your living area, you've accomplished nothing. And if
air-changes are enough to keep the surfaces dry and mold-free,
you're better off not covering them at all, but leaving them open
to the living area. The only way this makes sense is if you're
doing the air-exchanges through a fairly good filtration system.

"Goedjn" wrote in message
news

I had fears of mold when I remodeled my basement. Although I've never
had a
spot of water, I worried that some time in future anything can change
and I
might end up with issues. My solution was to build my walls 3.5 inches
out
from block on all walls that were buried. Lost a little space but the
air is
moving behind the wall real nice.

How do you get air moving in that 3.5 inch cavity? How do you know it
is moving "nicely"?

If you provide a way for room air to enter the cavity at the bottom
and to exit the cavity at the top then simple physics will handle the
movement for you. If the basement is not otherwise conditioned, then
a 24 hr a day (ceiling) fan would give extra insurance at little
additional cost, but I might go for a cheap wall refrigerated unit if
I lived in So. Florida.

If you have a 3" cavity between the foundation and the basement
walls, haven't you just built yourself a mold-farm? (And a lovely
space for mice, to boot?) and if you exchance air between that space
and your living area, you've accomplished nothing. And if
air-changes are enough to keep the surfaces dry and mold-free,
you're better off not covering them at all, but leaving them open
to the living area. The only way this makes sense is if you're
doing the air-exchanges through a fairly good filtration system.

I would tend to agree. The proper way to do this would be to vent
this space to the outside above the grade.

replying to bob smith, breadfan wrote:
Specifically mentions that spray foam is a good solution for spaces with some
moisture problems.
That's because it won't encourage mold growth like batt insulation can.

Yes I know this is 13 years old, F off.

--
for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ence-8033-.htm

On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 4:14:18 PM UTC-6, breadfan wrote:

replying to bob smith, breadfan wrote:

Specifically mentions that spray foam is a good solution for spaces with some
moisture problems.
That's because it won't encourage mold growth like batt insulation can.

Yes I know this is 13 years old, F off.

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ence-8033-.htm


Another dumbass from HomeMoanersHub strikes again. What makes it so damn
silly is the idiot KNOWS he's replying to a nearly 13 year old thread but
somehow thought his post would be earth shattering news.

On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 7:02:09 PM UTC-6, ItsJoanNotJoann wrote:
On Friday, January 26, 2018 at 4:14:18 PM UTC-6, breadfan wrote:

replying to bob smith, breadfan wrote:

Specifically mentions that spray foam is a good solution for spaces with some
moisture problems.
That's because it won't encourage mold growth like batt insulation can.

Yes I know this is 13 years old, F off.

for full context, visit https://www.homeownershub.com/mainte...ence-8033-.htm


Another dumbass from HomeMoanersHub strikes again. What makes it so damn
silly is the idiot KNOWS he's replying to a nearly 13 year old thread but
somehow thought his post would be earth shattering news.


They never think of the gerbils. O_o

[8~{} Uncle Fuzzy Monster