In your opinions, what are your thoughts on (regarding a furnace and central
air conditioner):

Rheem Weather King 80% (Not a variable speed) and a 2.5 ton Rheem AC unit
vs.
Carrier WeatherMaker 58CVA , also 80% (Variable Speed) and 3 ton Carrier
38TKB AC unit

I have to choose between the two for my house and I don't know which to go
with. I don't have any information on either of the two installers that
would help me pick which one was a better installer...both are personally
involved with the installation.

The second quote was more money than first, given it's a variable speed
furnace and a slightly bigger AC.

WhyKnot wrote:
In your opinions, what are your thoughts on (regarding a furnace and
central air conditioner):

Rheem Weather King 80% (Not a variable speed) and a 2.5 ton Rheem AC
unit vs.
Carrier WeatherMaker 58CVA , also 80% (Variable Speed) and 3 ton
Carrier 38TKB AC unit

I have to choose between the two for my house and I don't know which
to go with. I don't have any information on either of the two
installers that would help me pick which one was a better
installer...both are personally involved with the installation.

The second quote was more money than first, given it's a variable
speed furnace and a slightly bigger AC.

Don't worry about which equipment worry about "I don't have any
information on either of the two installers"

The installer and how well they do their job is far more important than
the hardware. Find out more about who is going to install your equipment.
They can make the best hardware work poorly and a good installer will not
advise you get a poor system.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia's Muire duit

The instaler and getting a written load calculation are the most
inportant as it is so easy for an installer to oversize you. Larger
units cost more, oversize and you wont remove humidity and heat to
quickly-unevenly. 80% is for areas that don`t have heat as a main
portion of their bill as Carrier has furnaces that are 16% more
efficient. Are you sure the Carrier is a VS motor and not 2 speed. You
did not say where you live and realy need more than 2 bids and a load
calculation.

Another key consideration is warranty and repair cost. I've seen many
reports that indicate that variable speed DC motors are prone to much
more frequent failure. There is not only the motor but the power
control circuitry that can fail and to replace either costs a lot more
than a std motor.

Those posting for tech opinions need to give a lot more information, or quit
asking for advice!
If your local contractors' were communicating effectively and doing their
jobs properly you wouldn't need outside advice.
In the other NG you asked:
Do we need air returns higher on the walls upstairs on the second story to
make AC more effective? (Rheem Guy is right.)
YES! Drawing the Return air from near the ceiling well help put more of a
heat-load on the evaporator coil and provide better distribution of the air
in the rooms.
The supply air is probably at the floor level(?) (You should have told us!)

First, make all the changes you can to reduce the heat load/heat
loss, --insulation, etc.
Then have a complete room-by-room Manual J heat load/loss calculation done
on the house to insure correct sizing of the unit, and a Manual D for
correct sizing of the Main and Branch Ducts. Make sure the ducts are
properly insulated and that there are no leaks.

Who knows, the 2.5-ton could be bigger than you need. All the companies you
had out to bid are leaving you stumbling around in the dark! A good company
and tech will do the tell you what you need to know and do before they do
the Manual J and D.

Read and learn. Wise up! Why pay $1400 dollars more for very possibly,
oversized equipment and variable speed.
In my opinion Rheem equipment is as good as Carrier. Ten SEER is the lowest!
What is your climate like? Where do you live? What large city do you live
near?
--
Air Conditioning - The Air Side of Air Conditioning
http://www.udarrell.com/external_sta..._readings.html
==========================================
"WhyKnot" wrote in message
...
In your opinions, what are your thoughts on (regarding a furnace and
central
air conditioner):

Rheem Weather King 80% (Not a variable speed) and a 2.5 ton Rheem AC unit
vs.
Carrier WeatherMaker 58CVA , also 80% (Variable Speed) and 3 ton Carrier
38TKB AC unit

I have to choose between the two for my house and I don't know which to go
with. I don't have any information on either of the two installers that
would help me pick which one was a better installer...both are personally
involved with the installation.

The second quote was more money than first, given it's a variable speed
furnace and a slightly bigger AC.

On 10 Apr 2005 05:25:18 -0700, wrote:

Another key consideration is warranty and repair cost. I've seen many
reports that indicate that variable speed DC motors are prone to much
more frequent failure. There is not only the motor but the power
control circuitry that can fail and to replace either costs a lot more
than a std motor.

Exactly why we opted for the regular continuous fan instead of the
variable; cheaper all around, and the energy savings from the variable
speed wasn't worth the risk of failure and subsequent
repair/replacement costs.

10 yr warrantys are usualy offered. A must with VS DC. Although GE
redesigned the VS motor a few years ago moving the electronics outboard
so hopefully they now last. With the power you save and low fan
dehumidification they are worth it and you get maybe a 6 yr payback in
electrical costs.

OK, let me defend myself (and thank you, your advice is good and I seriously
am learning more on these ng's than from all FIVE quotes I had, and I've
went with at least 3 very reputable long-time companies in the city)

1 - Cross posting is supposed to be poor etiquette. I came to this group
because I was told to by the HVAC group right off the bat not a place a
homeowner post asking questions to that group. So I posted to this group,
where that person told me to go.
However, someone was nice enough to reply on the HVAC group and told me
without seeing the job he just couldn't answer some of the questions. Fair
enough. So, I thought I could try and give details here, but without seeing
the job, I was just likely filling just up space on the ng with useless info
that wouldn't be helpful and also wasn't sure what sort of audience is on
this group. I honestly thought this might be just a bunch of other
homeowners with lots of personal war stories and not professionals who could
help me. Who knew? I misjudged. So I made my question here short and
simple.

2- We live between near Rochester NY. We have long, snowy winters and the
average humidity all year long is above 50-60%. Average low temps in Jan is
in the mid teens, Average high temps in July-Aug is in the high 70's to low
80's. Average morning humidity in the summer is around 88%.
The heat and humidity is a real health problem for my child who has a
serious medical condition and ends up in the hospital because of this
problem frequently.

3- I need to have this job done quickly. I've been getting quotes for a
couple weeks. I've check the Better Business Bureau site for any info on
these guys (all are in good standing), no one I ask seems to know anyone in
the HVAC business...everyone I know used the big businesses for their HVAC
and those are two for the quotes I got; all I can do is take the references
of the independent guys (and are they going to give me bad ones?).

4- They all told me the furnace I have to way too big, and they are all
downsizing me more appropriately. The only difference is in sizes is the
last quote we had from the Carrier fellow who wants to go with a bigger AC
(3 ton 10 SEER and the others all are saying a 2.5 ton 12 SEER).
And for that person who asked, the Carrier furnace booklet says variable
speed, nothing about 2 speed.

5- I am the type of person who usually researches everything to death before
I do something. I just can't with this. That's why I'm turning to the
generosity and helpfulness of you good folks in hopes I can get some
guidance here. As I said, I need to make a fast decision on this and I just
don't have time to research it. Without any feedback, I'm just going to
have to pick one anyway, so there's no harm in asking for a few opinions,
right?

I do appreciate your help and advice.

I did know I shouldn't have posted my questions to the "alt.hvac" group, so
below is the SAME post I had there on that group. I cut and pasted it
here...sorry about that....this the full story:

Is this a newsgroup where a homeowner can ask a recommendation on a
furnace/AC and on Duct cleaning (is it a scam)? My head is spinning after I
had 5 estimates done (2 from big companies, 3 from small, local ones) and
they were all so different and contradicting in what they advised that I'm
left very confused with what is right. I'm down to two guys who own small
local businesses.

One gave us a quote on a Rheem Weather King 80% and 2.5 ton AC and told us
to stay away from the variable speed, the other gave us a quote on a Carrier
Weathermaker 58CVA 80% variable speed furnace and a 3 ton AC (Weathermaker
38TKB). From what I was told, an air cleaner comes with the Carrier 58CVA
and we'd have to buy the media air cleaner extra with the Rheem, which is
not a big deal, we'd buy that. The difference between the Rheem quote and
the Carrier is about $1400 more for the Carrier when all is said and done,
but I think the Carrier guy is doing a little more work.

Here are some things that might make a difference, I don't know....The
Carrier guy mentioned we'd need to put in cold air returns higher on the
walls upstairs (the ones we have on the second floor are near the ground)
and he told us duct cleaning is not worth the money, when we asked about
having that done. Feels that's a bit of a scam and the ducts will get as
cleaned as they need to be when they do this installation and position the
furnace, etc. The Rheem guy didn't mention those things.

Is duct cleaning a scam? I have no idea and am about to drop an additional
$400 on that if I go with any one of the other guys the Carrier one who
thinks it is a scam.

Do we need air returns higher on the walls upstairs on the second story to
make AC more effective?

Both guys seem to know their business, both come recommended by friends and
have no bad reports with the BBB....and I have little else to know what to
base this all on. Both have been in business for many years and I think
will stand behind their work and are personally involved in the installation
of the units. How do I go about picking? Which equipment is better?

We live near Rochester NY. We have long, snowy winters and the
average humidity all year long is usually above 50-60%.
Average low temps in Jan is in the mid teens and the heat goes on sometime
in October and stays on through April. Average high temps in July-Aug is in
the high 70's to low
80's. Average morning humidity in the summer is around 88%. Our family is
not very tolerant of the heat in summer because of a special medical
condition. I anticipate the AC will get a workout.


"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
The instaler and getting a written load calculation are the most
inportant as it is so easy for an installer to oversize you. Larger
units cost more, oversize and you wont remove humidity and heat to
quickly-unevenly. 80% is for areas that don`t have heat as a main
portion of their bill as Carrier has furnaces that are 16% more
efficient. Are you sure the Carrier is a VS motor and not 2 speed. You
did not say where you live and realy need more than 2 bids and a load
calculation.

God, I'm going to get myself in deeper by the minute. I meant to say I
DIDN'T know I shouldn't have posted to the other group....
can you see why I need help with life????
too much going on!

"WhyKnot" wrote in message
...
I did know I shouldn't have posted my questions to the "alt.hvac" group,
so
below is the SAME post I had there on that group. I cut and pasted it
here...sorry about that....this the full story:

Actually, hes got a point, but furgettaboughit.
Yea.I know thats spelled wrong...LOL
Southern accent ya know...


Is this a newsgroup where a homeowner can ask a recommendation on a
furnace/AC and on Duct cleaning (is it a scam)? My head is spinning after
I
had 5 estimates done (2 from big companies, 3 from small, local ones) and
they were all so different and contradicting in what they advised that I'm
left very confused with what is right. I'm down to two guys who own
small
local businesses.


Yes...some would argue incorrectly that the other one was...
Your asking for free advice, so you get, what you get in Usenet.

One gave us a quote on a Rheem Weather King 80% and 2.5 ton AC and told us
to stay away from the variable speed, the other gave us a quote on a
Carrier
Weathermaker 58CVA 80% variable speed furnace and a 3 ton AC (Weathermaker
38TKB). From what I was told, an air cleaner comes with the Carrier
58CVA
and we'd have to buy the media air cleaner extra with the Rheem, which is
not a big deal, we'd buy that. The difference between the Rheem quote and
the Carrier is about $1400 more for the Carrier when all is said and done,
but I think the Carrier guy is doing a little more work.

Personally, I dont deal with the Chinese when possible, so I stopped selling
Rheem/Ruud when my local supplier had them on sale.
I dont like companies that have a history of knowinly using customers as
guinnia pigs, so that eliminates Carrier.
However...

Based upon the two you have here, simply based upon service information, its
a no brainer...you would overall prefer to go with the Rheem unit, as most
of the parts are not as propriatary as the Carrier, and should the fan motor
in the Carrier die out of warranty, its going to cost an arm and a
leg..possibly in the $800 range if that one is like some that you have to
replace the controller with it.


Here are some things that might make a difference, I don't know....The
Carrier guy mentioned we'd need to put in cold air returns higher on the
walls upstairs (the ones we have on the second floor are near the ground)
and he told us duct cleaning is not worth the money, when we asked about
having that done. Feels that's a bit of a scam and the ducts will get as
cleaned as they need to be when they do this installation and position the
furnace, etc. The Rheem guy didn't mention those things.


You will hear alot about returns high, supplies low, cold air falls, hot air
rises..etc..

Fact is, the system wont care, provided that you have a properly designed
duct system, and the duct system is designed to the new unit.
The installers MUST do a manual D to insure that the ducts you have are ok
with the new system.
Ducts are NOT something else with the central air system, they are part of
the system....meaning, just because you are getting some new parts added,
you are not getting the entire system...the ductwork is PART of the entire
system, and it all must match to work properly.


Is duct cleaning a scam? I have no idea and am about to drop an
additional
$400 on that if I go with any one of the other guys the Carrier one who
thinks it is a scam.

Up to 90% of the time...sure is.
If the ducts are that dirty, if they are metal, perhaps cleaning them is an
option..if they are fiberglass insulated on the inside, or ductboard or
flex, then replacement is the only real option.


Do we need air returns higher on the walls upstairs on the second story to
make AC more effective?

Nope...maybe...depends on the current setup....something we cant see from
here.
If it matters, as an example, in the deserts of SoCal we used to due to
inherent design flaws in the construction of the homes, either have to
install everything in the floor, or in the ceiling of some two story
apartments....when the systems were up and running, you could not tell where
the returns and supply ducts were.
It boils back down to things we cant see from here.


Both guys seem to know their business, both come recommended by friends
and
have no bad reports with the BBB....and I have little else to know what to
base this all on. Both have been in business for many years and I think
will stand behind their work and are personally involved in the
installation
of the units. How do I go about picking? Which equipment is better?


All equipment is junk, its the installer that makes it work like it should.
The installation makes it good units, or bad units.

Did anyone talk to you about adding UV-C band lamps to the system to insure
that you are getting the most bang for you buck with the added filtration?

Tell a few contractors to give you a load calculation in writing. or
everything may be oversized, over size AC and you won`t remove much
humidity,you say humidity removal is important. I would not install an
80% or 10 or 12 seer in your area, but a 93+ and 14 seer or more. VS DC
run with a hunidistat-thermostat will remove the most moisture. A VS DC
can remove twice the hunidity as non VS DC but get a 10 yr warranty. You
have to research this as there are more option offered than ever before.
If you have the $ research, you have not been shown the high efficiency
equipment, or air filters and other options offered. Since there is a
health issue here what you pick may make a big difference. You say you
don`t have the time to research, but done wrong or not finding all
options you could of had and you just will have to live with it.

I'm reading what I can online today. Finding lots of manufacturer sponsored
sites, so getting a slanted view and not any clearer thoughts. I tried
doing this online reading a few weeks ago and found it just as confusing.
Went ahead with the quotes hoping I'd learn more from the contractors as I
went along (which I did...I learned it was just as confusing as what I saw
online).

Some of the reading I'm doing is saying a variable speed furnace will help
the AC work more efficiently and hence, I won't need as high a SEER rating?
Am I interpreting that right? But I'm also interpreting that I have to have
the proper ductwork for a variable speed to work correctly, so I might be
better off with a standard furnace like we have now.

We are on a very limited budget. I'd love to get the higher efficiency
options, but we can't afford the options, so we have to stay with the lower
cost options I'm looking at now and go with what we can do at this time.
Can't afford to get new ductwork and so far, not one of the five estimates
have mentioned that to us (beyond putting the cold air returns high on the
walls on the second floor). We HAVE to get the AC (for those health
issues). This job has to be done soon and I have to decide on who does it
in the next couple days, by the end of this coming week at the latest. Not
optimal, I know, but this is how it is. People on the ng can say what they
will about this, but this is the way it is. Anything we have installed has
to be better than what we're living with now, so that's one way to look at
it...unless it ends up breaking down and being a repair nightmare. And
that's the chance I have to take regardless of how much researching I do or
don't do.

No one except one guy, has mentioned the UV light thing, I suspect because
of our budget constraints. The one quote that did include it was over
$7800. WAY out of our price range. Again, can only do what I have the
money to do and trying to get the best I can with what money I have. I
haven't pushed the UV, having read about it, knowing we can't afford any
frills. So I haven't even asked for this option. I'm telling the
contractors before they even come here, so as to not waste their time if
they sense I'm asking for something they don't want to do, that we're on a
tight budget. Not sure why the guy with the Lexus even bothered coming to
give us the $7800 plus quote.



"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Tell a few contractors to give you a load calculation in writing. or
everything may be oversized, over size AC and you won`t remove much
humidity,you say humidity removal is important. I would not install an
80% or 10 or 12 seer in your area, but a 93+ and 14 seer or more. VS DC
run with a hunidistat-thermostat will remove the most moisture. A VS DC
can remove twice the hunidity as non VS DC but get a 10 yr warranty. You
have to research this as there are more option offered than ever before.
If you have the $ research, you have not been shown the high efficiency
equipment, or air filters and other options offered. Since there is a
health issue here what you pick may make a big difference. You say you
don`t have the time to research, but done wrong or not finding all
options you could of had and you just will have to live with it.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 14:35:32 GMT, "WhyKnot"
wrote:

We live near Rochester NY. We have long, snowy winters and the
average humidity all year long is usually above 50-60%.
Average low temps in Jan is in the mid teens and the heat goes on sometime
in October and stays on through April. Average high temps in July-Aug is in
the high 70's to low
80's. Average morning humidity in the summer is around 88%. Our family is
not very tolerant of the heat in summer because of a special medical
condition. I anticipate the AC will get a workout.

OK, I also live in Rochester, NY, and 2 years ago I put in a York
Diamond 95 2-stage gas furnace with a Honeywell humidifier and a split
system air conditioner in my 1930 house. We didn't put in the
variable speed fan for reasons I stated in a different post, but if
you can get the 10-year warranty mentioned by another poster, that
might be worth investigating. We've been very pleased with the
system, installed by Betlem Residential (Van Hee installs the same
system for the same price, and we went with Betlem for the free
9-month financing only because we had just bought the house and were
cash poor at the time).

I wanted York because it's still a U.S.-made product and can be
serviced by various companies around town. I didn't want Rheem
because I'd heard from too many people of problems with their systems.
I also didn't want Trane or Carrier or Lennox because of price and
over-complexity. Don't mess with any Amana dealers because that brand
is proprietary, another reason I didn't buy it.

I also disliked Isaac Heating and Cooling because of their dubious
advertising methods. So, I suggest you talk to Betlem Residential,
Van Hee, and John Betlem (the two Betlems had a falling out, and both
companies are good).

Don't waste your $$ on duct cleaning. If you can sweep out stuff
yourself, fine, but really, don't pay anyone for that.

Just my experience and $.02. Hope it helps.

On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 16:08:01 GMT, "WhyKnot"
wrote:

No one except one guy, has mentioned the UV light thing, I suspect because
of our budget constraints. The one quote that did include it was over
$7800. WAY out of our price range. Again, can only do what I have the
money to do and trying to get the best I can with what money I have. I
haven't pushed the UV, having read about it, knowing we can't afford any
frills. So I haven't even asked for this option. I'm telling the
contractors before they even come here, so as to not waste their time if
they sense I'm asking for something they don't want to do, that we're on a
tight budget. Not sure why the guy with the Lexus even bothered coming to
give us the $7800 plus quote.

The system I mentioned in my other post (sans UV and other frills)
cost less than $6,000, but remember, it's a high-efficiency 2-stage
furnace. Talk to Betlem and Van Hee; they'll give you a system to
meet your needs and price constraints.

I've seen many
reports that indicate that variable speed DC motors are prone to much
more frequent failure. There is not only the motor but the power
control circuitry that can fail and to replace either costs a lot more
than a std motor.

The motor it self rarely fails. Most often it is the electronic module
that mounts on the motor that fails. Most manufacturers now sell the
module separately as a repair part. We usually just change the module.
It is faster than replacing a standard motor, so the labor cost is
lower. Even if the module costs more the total cost is about even. The
variable speed motor ramps up to speed more slowly than a standard
motor, so you don't notice a blast of air when it starts. If it is set
to enhanced mode it dehumidifies better. It is also quieter and more
efficient. I would recommend a variable speed blower on most
installations.

However, I question why the Carrier dealer bid a larger unit. I hope
he did a load calculation. If he just bid by the 500 sq ft per ton
rule, the benefits of variable speed will be lost. Did he just measure
floor area or did he also measure walls, windows, doors, etc. Did he
check insulation levels. If he did not, then chuck his bid and get
another opinion. Depending on where you live, I would question why the
Rheem guy only bid an 80% furnace. If you are in a cooling dominated
climate he needs to bid hiugh efficiency A/C. If you are in a heating
dominated climate, he should bid a high efficiency furnace. The only
time I would want both units to be standard efficiency is in a very
mild climate that uses very little heating or AC.

Stretch

The system I mentioned in my other post (sans UV and other frills)
cost less than $6,000, but remember, it's a high-efficiency 2-stage
furnace. Talk to Betlem and Van Hee; they'll give you a system to
meet your needs and price constraints.

Betlem = $7800 plus
we're paying cash for this, so financing isn't a worry (I refinanced the
house to do this)
they wanted to put in a Carrier or a Goodman

(I think one more quote could put me over the edge of sanity.) While I do
appreciate you suggesting I try more quotes, I hesitate to call Van Hee at
this point. The real problem is, I'm gone from 7:30 am to about 6:30 pm
weekdays and it's near impossible to get these guys to come and do estimates
any time but weekdays 8-5 and Saturday mornings. I need to decide with who
I've gotten, I think. Quotes from 5 different and varied places seems like
it should have given me something to work with. With about 100 places
locally to choose from, I could keep getting quotes till the cows come home
and only confuse me more by the day. I have other work I need done and I
have to move on with other quotes, once I see how much money I have left.

But thank you!

WhyKnot

Please send me your email address with spaces around the "dot" and @
sign. normal email addresses are partly blanked for some reason. I
will send you some articles by return email explaining much that you
should know. If you want a high efficiency filter for your child, the
VS will help overcome the high resistance / high efficiency filter.
These articles are several pages long with pictures, too big to post
here.

Stretch
Kevin O'Neillsixfoot7 @ Sccoast . net
President
O'Neill-Bagwell Cooling & Heating
Myrtle Beach, SC
843-385-2220

WhyKnot

Personally, I see and sell more Carrier than Rheem, But I feel they are
roughly equal in quality. Carrier will sell the VS motor module for
about $65 to $100 depending on the size. Not much more than a standard
motor. Thew last time I changed one the total cost, parts and labor,
was about $200.00.

As for duct cleaning, most of the time it is a scam. If you have bare
sheet metal ducts, it might help. If you have ductboard or lined
metal, then skip it.

High efficiency filters can help, but the media filters can have a high
resistance to air flow in certain sizes, especially the 1" thick

AprilAire/SpaceGuard has low resistance in 2.5 ton range, I like them
because low pressure drop and high efficiency. If you go with the
Rheem, get a AprilAire installed in the duct.

If the ducts are leaky, high efficiency filters and UV lights won't do
much good because the infiltration will overpower the filters and UV.

Stretch

I sent you my address.
please let me know (post here) if you didn't receive
-thanks

"stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
WhyKnot

Please send me your email address with spaces around the "dot" and @
sign. normal email addresses are partly blanked for some reason. I
will send you some articles by return email explaining much that you
should know. If you want a high efficiency filter for your child, the
VS will help overcome the high resistance / high efficiency filter.
These articles are several pages long with pictures, too big to post
here.

Stretch
Kevin O'Neillsixfoot7 @ Sccoast . net
President
O'Neill-Bagwell Cooling & Heating
Myrtle Beach, SC
843-385-2220

"WhyKnot" wrote in message
...
:
: The second quote was more money than first, given it's a variable
speed
: furnace and a slightly bigger AC.
:
:

Well what size do you need and why do the 2 installers differ on the
size requirement?
we need way more info
what is the weather like where you live
utility costs?
why the 80% furnace?
which installer has a better record?
why do you have such a limited choice?

sorry about my previous post. I didnt read enough before I clicked
send.
Goodman is made in Texas, USA. And a 10 year parts & labor extended
warranty is only 200 bucks per unit. You other guys can say what you
want but Goodman is still the best bang for your buck. The only
problem I've seen in the last couple years of doing paperwork for a
HVAC company is the hot surface ignitors in the furnaces. They are
supposed to be fixing that problem. Pretty soon there will be no
more 10 seer A/C equipment made. It costs way more to run cheap
equipment. You could almost get a 13 or 14 seer system from Goodman
for the difference between your 2 quotes. You mention c/a returns. I
believe they are vital to efficient cooling. The installer that
suggested those is probly a little more on the ball than the other
one. A cold air return shouldn't cost you more than a couple hundred
bucks each if it is a clear run. Like evertbody else said, it's the
installer who matters.

"WhyKnot" wrote in message
...

The system I mentioned in my other post (sans UV and other frills)
cost less than $6,000, but remember, it's a high-efficiency 2-stage
furnace. Talk to Betlem and Van Hee; they'll give you a system to
meet your needs and price constraints.

Betlem = $7800 plus
we're paying cash for this, so financing isn't a worry (I refinanced the house
to do this)
they wanted to put in a Carrier or a Goodman


This is Turtle.

I would not use Goodman outside Units [ condenser units ] unless it was 12 seer
or above. all 12 seer and above come with scroll compressors and below SEERs
does not. If you really got a pin point questions. E-mail or ask.

TURTLE

My old 1987 ARI Tech book "Summer Outdoor Design Conditions for the
Rochester NY area" is:
2½% Design Dry Bulb is 88-F Coincident Design Wet Bulb 71-F | 85 and 71 is
around 50% Relative Humidity
Therefore, design conditions appear to be less than 50% RH.

First, do everything you can to reduce air infiltration and increase
insulation.
It should NOT take much cooling capacity to handle that latent and sensible
heat load!
For higher SEER efficiencies and low humidity control you need long run-time
cycles!

Do NOT oversize your A/C system!
Make sure they get an optimal heat-=load on the evaporator coil during
normal room temperature settings!
udarrell
--
The Air Side of Air Conditioning -
What BTUH, EER, and SEER is your Air Conditioner delivering? (Optimize
it!)
http://www.udarrell.com/air-conditio...city-seer.html
=======================================
"WhyKnot" wrote in message
...
OK, let me defend myself (and thank you, your advice is good and I
seriously
am learning more on these NG's than from all FIVE quotes I had, and I've
went with at least 3 very reputable long-time companies in the city)
(Clipped)
2- We live between near Rochester NY. We have long, snowy winters and
the
average humidity all year long is above 50-60%. Average low temps in Jan
is
in the mid teens, Average high temps in July-Aug is in the high 70's to
low
80's. Average morning humidity in the summer is around 88%.
The heat and humidity is a real health problem for my child who has a
serious medical condition and ends up in the hospital because of this
problem frequently.

3- I need to have this job done quickly. I've been getting quotes for a
couple weeks. I've check the Better Business Bureau site for any info on
these guys (all are in good standing), no one I ask seems to know anyone
in
the HVAC business...everyone I know used the big businesses for their HVAC
and those are two for the quotes I got; all I can do is take the
references
of the independent guys (and are they going to give me bad ones?).

4- They all told me the furnace I have to way too big, and they are all
downsizing me more appropriately. The only difference is in sizes is the
last quote we had from the Carrier fellow who wants to go with a bigger AC
(3 ton 10 SEER and the others all are saying a 2.5 ton 12 SEER).
And for that person who asked, the Carrier furnace booklet says variable
speed, nothing about 2 speed.

5- I am the type of person who usually researches everything to death
before
I do something. I just can't with this. That's why I'm turning to the
generosity and helpfulness of you good folks in hopes I can get some
guidance here. As I said, I need to make a fast decision on this and I
just
don't have time to research it. Without any feedback, I'm just going to
have to pick one anyway, so there's no harm in asking for a few opinions,
right?
I do appreciate your help and advice.

WhyKnot

I agree with udarrell .

BTW, why were you told you need new furnace and A/C & who told you
that?

Someone who is on commission? How old is your old stuff & what brand?
Maybe the equipment is not the problem.

Please let us know what you finally decide to do. Good Luck.

Stretch

approx 30 year old furnace, no AC now (which is what we want)

OK, I'm convinced, after hearing all the guys who have given us quotes bad
mouth each others' brand names they're selling that I shouldn't worry so
much about the Rheem vs. Carrier issue.
So now I'm torn between the idea of an 80% variable speed and a plain old
80% or 90% standard furnace, which will save a bundle of money. We have a
40+ yr old house, old ducts to match and additions to the place and this
will be the first time we've had AC in here. The standard old furnace seems
like it would be just fine, but not sure with AC that is true.

Maybe I'll just move and settle the dilemma


"stretch" wrote in message
oups.com...
WhyKnot

I agree with udarrell .

BTW, why were you told you need new furnace and A/C & who told you
that?

Someone who is on commission? How old is your old stuff & what brand?
Maybe the equipment is not the problem.

Please let us know what you finally decide to do. Good Luck.

Stretch

Since heat is a big bill in your area go 94% . A 94.4% is 18% more
efficient than 80% and that is considerable. 80% units belong in
Florida. VS is nice but not as important as efficiency in heating or
Seer in AC. You say you will use AC alot, so forget 10 seer 10 will be
outlawed soon anyway and belong in Canada. 12 is ok, better 14 but
savings do not increase in a linear fashion as seer increases. Get a
chart on Seer comparisons. Trane has one in their literature online or
at Home Depot. Forget Goodman, bottom of the barrel, and get a good
instaler that does a written load calculation for you. VS is nice but if
you can`t afford it so what the main equipment is what is important.
Don`t oversize AC or it will not dehumidify. If insulation or new
efficient windows are planned within a few years be sure to use the
anticipated R value increases, I did not and oversized everything and
now I need 2 dehumidifiers in summer as AC is to big. And furnace heats
fast and short cycles, Plus smaller is cheaper.