Trying to figure out if it is installer's fault, or laminate's, or the
underlament is too soft.

I bought Harmonics Select Maple laminate at Costco, and a contractor
just started installing it. Unfortunately, it is easy to feel (and even
see) that there are 0.1 - 0.2mm differences in height at seams, and
that's where chipping off starts.

Did anybody have similar experience ? I am using "Quiet step"
underlayment (felt), which is a bit thicker than what Harmonics
suggests.

The work just started, so I am trying to figure out ASAP whose fault it
is. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated.

"Ikon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Trying to figure out if it is installer's fault, or laminate's, or the
underlament is too soft.

I bought Harmonics Select Maple laminate at Costco, and a contractor
just started installing it. Unfortunately, it is easy to feel (and even
see) that there are 0.1 - 0.2mm differences in height at seams, and
that's where chipping off starts.

Did anybody have similar experience ? I am using "Quiet step"
underlayment (felt), which is a bit thicker than what Harmonics
suggests.

The work just started, so I am trying to figure out ASAP whose fault it
is. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated.


Harmonics may bail on you because you are using the wrong underlayment.
Doubt that it would chip on installation unless it us just a cheap product
to begin with. If it is chipping now, it will be only worse in months and
years to come.

Are the boards of a different thickness, was floor level,and no raised
seems on old. You mean it isn`t finished and it is chipping. I would
start over with a new floor not the cheapest you can find, and be sure
all is preped right. You will always have problems with that floor.

I have the Harmonics Maple with some boards chipped due to installation and
few boards chipped at the corners right out of the box due to shipment or
handling at the warehouse - this was on a 1,000sf installation. Easy to chip
those boards if you're not careful with the installation. If there is much a
height difference between the boards, I would think your installer had
forced it together rather than "snapped" in it. I've installed laminates
that cost about 3x as much and was not any better. If you use a non approved
underlament, it may be difficult to have Hamonics to warrant this.

IMO any warranty on construction materials would take a multi-year
litigation to ever collect on & would cost you a fortune.

I would think your installer had
forced it together rather than "snapped" in it.

My installer is actually snapping it, instead of hitting it slighly
with a hammer (as the manufacturer's instruction suggests !) He says
that the locks have 2-component glue, and if boards are moved along
each other with a hammer the glue will lose its potency.

"Ikon" wrote in message
ups.com...
I would think your installer had
forced it together rather than "snapped" in it.

My installer is actually snapping it, instead of hitting it slighly
with a hammer (as the manufacturer's instruction suggests !) He says
that the locks have 2-component glue, and if boards are moved along
each other with a hammer the glue will lose its potency.


The one from Costco is glueless as most of the laminates are today. You
could, in fact, disassemble the Costco flooring a year or more from now with
ease so I have no idea what the 2-component glue stated by your contractor
is. In any case if glue is used on the Costco laminates the joints may/will
swell up with differences in height at the seams. Also you could run into a
defective box where its more prone to chipping than the others but chipping
is usually an installer screw up - me that is.

The manufacturer says to tap it and he won`t because of ruining the
glue! Sounds like total BS to me . Does manufacturer even recomend
glue. Does the can of glue say it can be ruined or is it the instaler
that doesn`t want to clean what seeps out. 2 part epoxy on a floor
seam! Pergo uses a glue like Elmers white glue. I realy dought the
instaler and his work at this point. Research what he has done and said
I think you will learn otherwise.

"Ikon" wrote
Trying to figure out if it is installer's fault, or laminate's, or the
underlament is too soft.

I bought Harmonics Select Maple laminate at Costco, and a contractor
just started installing it. Unfortunately, it is easy to feel (and even
see) that there are 0.1 - 0.2mm differences in height at seams, and
that's where chipping off starts.

Did anybody have similar experience ? I am using "Quiet step"
underlayment (felt), which is a bit thicker than what Harmonics
suggests.

The work just started, so I am trying to figure out ASAP whose fault it
is. Any suggestions will be highly appreciated.

One thing about off brands, they are DPL laminated compared to HPL brands
bought through an actual flooring store. The DPL stands for Direct Pressure
Laminate which is manufactured at 300-500 PSI. The HPL stands for High
Pressure Laminate which is manufactured at 1400 + PSI. The major
manufacturers sell DPL stock through HD & Lowes but will not sell them HPL
which is sold through flooring suppliers.

About four years ago, I got to spend 3 days training at the Pergo plant in
Raleigh NC. I got to see both processes, there is a difference in the
manufacturing of the stock. Just a side note, Pergo North America in
Raleigh manufacturers all the stock for North America, Canada, & Mexico.
Total employees including office, manufacturing, shipping/receiving =======
15. Talk about robotics, it was fascinating. I believe at that time, it was
45 semi trailers a day being shipped. I think Raleigh officials believed
all sorts of jobs were going to be created when they gave abatements for the
plant.

Here's an interesting post on a board about the Harmonics brand.

http://laminateflooring.oncloud8.com...b1b3e 12efd3f

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
The manufacturer says to tap it and he won`t because of ruining the
glue! Sounds like total BS to me . Does manufacturer even recomend
glue. Does the can of glue say it can be ruined or is it the instaler
that doesn`t want to clean what seeps out. 2 part epoxy on a floor
seam! Pergo uses a glue like Elmers white glue. I realy dought the
instaler and his work at this point. Research what he has done and said
I think you will learn otherwise.


Agree that his contractor sounded strange. The places I used glue were near
the kitchen sink and bathrooms. I use water resistant yellow glue Titebond
II - too much it would swell up the joints and too little then it won't
provide protection from water penetration. Using glue, off course, would
void the warranty.

Ikon wrote:
I would think your installer had
forced it together rather than "snapped" in it.


My installer is actually snapping it, instead of hitting it slighly
with a hammer (as the manufacturer's instruction suggests !) He says
that the locks have 2-component glue, and if boards are moved along
each other with a hammer the glue will lose its potency.


Your installer is an idiot. It is GLUELESS. You
can take it apart and install it elsewhere, even a
year after installation.

Agree that his contractor sounded strange. The places I used glue
were near
the kitchen sink and bathrooms.

No, he is not using glue, of course - he claims that the locks are
covered with 2-component glue, each side of the lock with one
component, and this glue gets activated when 2 pieces are locked.

I am wondering if this is true. Also, I was suggested that a substance
sold as "Plastic Wood" at Home Depot can be used to fill the space of
the chipped off pieces, and prevent further chipping. Going to test
this theory

Fred wrote:
I have the Harmonics Maple with some boards chipped due to installation and
few boards chipped at the corners right out of the box due to shipment or
handling at the warehouse - this was on a 1,000sf installation. Easy to chip
those boards if you're not careful with the installation. If there is much a
height difference between the boards, I would think your installer had
forced it together rather than "snapped" in it. I've installed laminates
that cost about 3x as much and was not any better. If you use a non approved
underlament, it may be difficult to have Hamonics to warrant this.


I just installed the Costco Cherry. Yes you can
see where the joints are (it surprised me, but you
can). There is a difference in height but it
isn't .1 mm (0.004 inches). That amount is about
the thickness of a piece of paper and based on
measurement with a dial caliper, the height
difference probably averages 0.002 or less.

Having never done this before, there was some
learning curve. I found that snapping the boards
together was not exactly easy and some tapping was
necessary. My wife found a chipped board after I
had gone about 4 boards past that point. We
simply disassemble back to that bad board and
replaced it. I'm certain that I probably chipped
the board while tapping a little too hard. Later
I chipped some more pieces by getting in a hurry
and not placing the tapping block correctly.

It is easy to jam the boards, (i.e., smack the
tapping block to hard)together too much, both
end-wise and width-wise. Ikon's problem is likely
due to the installer; I doubt that the
underlayment would cause the problem. We have
been careful but have not seen any chips since we
finished the installing, even though we have a cat
that seems to get a kick out of starting out fast
with her claws out. We yell at her but she still
does it.

I did notice that we ended up with boxes from two
different lots and the back was a different color,
one was brown and the other was pink. Didn't seem
to be any difference in the top surface.

"Ikon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Agree that his contractor sounded strange. The places I used glue
were near
the kitchen sink and bathrooms.

No, he is not using glue, of course - he claims that the locks are
covered with 2-component glue, each side of the lock with one
component, and this glue gets activated when 2 pieces are locked.

I am wondering if this is true. Also, I was suggested that a substance
sold as "Plastic Wood" at Home Depot can be used to fill the space of
the chipped off pieces, and prevent further chipping. Going to test
this theory


Fixing laminates is a tough one, I just replace the bad ones. Don't think
the plastic wood would stick nor dry/sand to the same constancy as the
laminate surface. You may have better luck with the color matching wax
sticks they use on furniture repairs.

Your installer is an idiot. It is GLUELESS.

Well, he does not claim that this laminate should be glued to the
underlayment (that's what glueless refers to). All he says is that each
lock has a 2 component glue which gets activated when two locks are
snapped together.

Ikon wrote:
Agree that his contractor sounded strange. The places I used glue

were near

the kitchen sink and bathrooms.


No, he is not using glue, of course - he claims that the locks are
covered with 2-component glue, each side of the lock with one
component, and this glue gets activated when 2 pieces are locked.

I am wondering if this is true. Also, I was suggested that a substance
sold as "Plastic Wood" at Home Depot can be used to fill the space of
the chipped off pieces, and prevent further chipping. Going to test
this theory


No it is not true! (second time) Otherwise you
wouldn't be able to take the pieces apart after
you laid them.

Pergo and others make a material to put on the
chipped places, but I think it is primarily for
color and not build up. I've only seen it in a
few shades. Might look at any standard flooring
place to see what they have for fixing chips.

Ikon wrote:
Your installer is an idiot. It is GLUELESS.


Well, he does not claim that this laminate should be glued to the
underlayment (that's what glueless refers to). All he says is that each
lock has a 2 component glue which gets activated when two locks are
snapped together.


Sorry, that is not what glueless means. Glueless
means the individual boards are not glued to each
other. If the floor is glued or otherwise
attached to the subfloor the term is "floating" or
"free floating." Costco's stuff is glueless and
free floating.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
Ikon wrote:
Your installer is an idiot. It is GLUELESS.


Well, he does not claim that this laminate should be glued to the
underlayment (that's what glueless refers to). All he says is that each
lock has a 2 component glue which gets activated when two locks are
snapped together.


Sorry, that is not what glueless means. Glueless means the individual
boards are not glued to each other. If the floor is glued or otherwise
attached to the subfloor the term is "floating" or "free floating."
Costco's stuff is glueless and free floating.

Wrong, maybe it was a typo. But, glueless means glueless. As in not glued to
the subfloor, so it can move as humidity changes. However, individual boards
can be glued to each other.

Fixing laminates is a tough one, I just replace the bad ones.

How do you manage to do it without replacing the whole room (basically,
everithing up to the nearest base boards and moldings) ?

Clark Griswold wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Ikon wrote:

Your installer is an idiot. It is GLUELESS.


Well, he does not claim that this laminate should be glued to the
underlayment (that's what glueless refers to). All he says is that each
lock has a 2 component glue which gets activated when two locks are
snapped together.


Sorry, that is not what glueless means. Glueless means the individual
boards are not glued to each other. If the floor is glued or otherwise
attached to the subfloor the term is "floating" or "free floating."
Costco's stuff is glueless and free floating.


Wrong, maybe it was a typo. But, glueless means glueless. As in not glued to
the subfloor, so it can move as humidity changes. However, individual boards
can be glued to each other.


I'll bet you also think that clueless means you
have some clues.

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...
Clark Griswold wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Ikon wrote:

Your installer is an idiot. It is GLUELESS.


Well, he does not claim that this laminate should be glued to the
underlayment (that's what glueless refers to). All he says is that each
lock has a 2 component glue which gets activated when two locks are
snapped together.


Sorry, that is not what glueless means. Glueless means the individual
boards are not glued to each other. If the floor is glued or otherwise
attached to the subfloor the term is "floating" or "free floating."
Costco's stuff is glueless and free floating.


Wrong, maybe it was a typo. But, glueless means glueless. As in not glued
to the subfloor, so it can move as humidity changes. However, individual
boards can be glued to each other.
I'll bet you also think that clueless means you have some clues.
How can a floating floor be nailed or glued to the subfloor? Think about it
*floating floor*.

It is easy to jam the boards, (i.e., smack the
tapping block to hard)together too much, both
end-wise and width-wise.

I noticed that there are traces of wooden dust around some seams, on
the top of installed laminate. May be it is an indication that the
pieces were snapped too hard. Though, again, this guy does not use a
taping block (as instructions suggest), he just snap them together
manually.

"Ikon" wrote in message
ups.com...
Fixing laminates is a tough one, I just replace the bad ones.

How do you manage to do it without replacing the whole room (basically,
everithing up to the nearest base boards and moldings) ?


Installation just started but now have chips on the whole room with never
heard off 2-component glue locks and glue laminate to the underpayment too?
Will he also nail the laminates to the subfloor and finish it off with two
coats of epoxy? If this is not a late April fool joke on us, get a real
contractor.

Installation just started but now have chips on the whole room
If this is not a late April fool joke on us, get a real contractor.

This is not an April fool
The chips are tiny, they are visible only at half foot distance, and
appear as uneven edges at a seam. What I am worried about is that they
are going to spread.

Clark Griswold wrote:
"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...

Clark Griswold wrote:

"George E. Cawthon" wrote in message
...


Ikon wrote:


Your installer is an idiot. It is GLUELESS.


Well, he does not claim that this laminate should be glued to the
underlayment (that's what glueless refers to). All he says is that each
lock has a 2 component glue which gets activated when two locks are
snapped together.


Sorry, that is not what glueless means. Glueless means the individual
boards are not glued to each other. If the floor is glued or otherwise
attached to the subfloor the term is "floating" or "free floating."
Costco's stuff is glueless and free floating.


Wrong, maybe it was a typo. But, glueless means glueless. As in not glued
to the subfloor, so it can move as humidity changes. However, individual
boards can be glued to each other.

I'll bet you also think that clueless means you have some clues.

How can a floating floor be nailed or glued to the subfloor? Think about it
*floating floor*.


Sorry, I jumped on you, I DID make a typo. You
are absolutely correct. It should have read If
the floor is NOT glued or otherwise attached to
the subfloor the term is "floating." Aging is hell.

I've been doing some research on plastic laminate flooring, and
spotted a decision point regarding whether to use glue or not. Pergo
recommends using glue even with their snap-together planks in areas
where you'll have heavy furniture. The two-part glue is the glue
itself and an activator, similar to an epoxy glue system, or auto
body filler which uses a catalyst. The glue should not cause swelling
along the seams since it is not water based. I could see a water-based
glue such as white glue or carpenter's polyvinyl resin glue causing
some swelling.
Planks are only as good as the materials used to make them. A high
density core is a factor, as is the quality of the wear layer on the
surface.