We recently purchased a 50 plus year old home in May of this year. Due
to a long list of reasons, we have decided to sell the home. We have a
buyer and closing was scheduled for today. However, yesterday, during
the final inspection (the second inspection on the home since we have
owned it) found that the house is "structurally unsound" due to water
damage. It was estimated that the problem has existed for well over 3
years. Water has been seeping in around the frame of the back sliding
glass door. My question is, how did the previous inspections not catch
this? The inspection results when we purchased the home made no
mention of the damage. Are the previous inspectors in any way liable?
After I heard what the inspector found, I crawled under the house to
see and it was blatantly obvious, even to me that something severe was
going on? We have had two estimates for replacing the damage and they
include replacing about 20% of our home's hardwood floors, a new door
jam, a new sliding glass door, new linoleum (sp). They said they would
have to jack up one full side of our brick house. I have not recieved
the $ estimate, but knowing all this, it is not going to be pretty. I
looked all around and could not find anything posted with similar
circumstances. Any help anyone can provide would be excellent. If you
need to know, I live in Alabama and the inspector that missed the
structure damage is in Georgia, but licensed to inspect in Alabama and
Georgia. Thanks!!!!!

"Starscream_1977" wrote in message
om...
We recently purchased a 50 plus year old home in May of this year. Due
to a long list of reasons, we have decided to sell the home. We have a
buyer and closing was scheduled for today. However, yesterday, during
the final inspection (the second inspection on the home since we have
owned it) found that the house is "structurally unsound" due to water
damage. It was estimated that the problem has existed for well over 3
years. Water has been seeping in around the frame of the back sliding
glass door. My question is, how did the previous inspections not catch
this? The inspection results when we purchased the home made no
mention of the damage. Are the previous inspectors in any way liable?
After I heard what the inspector found, I crawled under the house to
see and it was blatantly obvious, even to me that something severe was
going on? We have had two estimates for replacing the damage and they
include replacing about 20% of our home's hardwood floors, a new door
jam, a new sliding glass door, new linoleum (sp). They said they would
have to jack up one full side of our brick house. I have not recieved
the $ estimate, but knowing all this, it is not going to be pretty. I
looked all around and could not find anything posted with similar
circumstances. Any help anyone can provide would be excellent. If you
need to know, I live in Alabama and the inspector that missed the
structure damage is in Georgia, but licensed to inspect in Alabama and
Georgia. Thanks!!!!!

what does your contract with the appraiser say?

what does your contract with the appraiser say?

I'm not sure I know what you're asking. I don't think we had a
contract with the appraiser. All that was setup through our real
estate agent. I will see if I can find any paperwork, though. I
appreciate the help. The seller of the house, when we bought it, lived
here for 33 years and did not disclose this problem, although we have
3 licensed contractors who came and said that the problem has been
around for a number of years and that the owner had to have known
about it, because it was "patched" once before.

Starscream_1977 wrote:
what does your contract with the appraiser say?


I'm not sure I know what you're asking. I don't think we had a
contract with the appraiser. All that was setup through our real
estate agent. I will see if I can find any paperwork, though. I
appreciate the help. The seller of the house, when we bought it, lived
here for 33 years and did not disclose this problem, although we have
3 licensed contractors who came and said that the problem has been
around for a number of years and that the owner had to have known
about it, because it was "patched" once before.

You do realize that your real estate agent is not about to hire an
inspector that might screw up the deal, don't you?

You should have hired your own inspector.

Bet you are up the proverbial creek. And the only paddle available will
be an attorney.

Sorry,
Gary

You do realize that your real estate agent is not about to hire an
inspector that might screw up the deal, don't you?

You should have hired your own inspector.

Bet you are up the proverbial creek. And the only paddle available will
be an attorney.

Sorry,
Gary

Thanks for the advice. Guess we'll be more careful next time we put
our trust in a real estate agent. So, in your opinion, who would be
liable? The seller for not disclosing or the inspector for messing
such an obvious structural problem?

Starscream_1977 wrote:
You do realize that your real estate agent is not about to hire an
inspector that might screw up the deal, don't you?

You should have hired your own inspector.

Bet you are up the proverbial creek. And the only paddle available will
be an attorney.

Sorry,
Gary


Thanks for the advice. Guess we'll be more careful next time we put
our trust in a real estate agent. So, in your opinion, who would be
liable? The seller for not disclosing or the inspector for messing
such an obvious structural problem?

I am not an attorney nor did I ever play one on TV...I have more
self-respect. :-

Probably depends on the state and the laws regarding disclosure. Have
you read the report that the inspector provided? I am sure there is some
type of caveat that exempts them from any more than returning your money.

In all honesty, this is where you need to consult a real estate
attorney. Don't rely on this or any newsgroup for any more than opinions.

And I will say not all agents are questionable, but when you think about
it, it is sorta like letting the fox guard the hen house.

Gary

"Starscream_1977" wrote in message
om...
We recently purchased a 50 plus year old home in May of this year. Due
to a long list of reasons, we have decided to sell the home. We have a
buyer and closing was scheduled for today. However, yesterday, during
the final inspection (the second inspection on the home since we have
owned it) found that the house is "structurally unsound" due to water
damage. It was estimated that the problem has existed for well over 3
years. Water has been seeping in around the frame of the back sliding
glass door. My question is, how did the previous inspections not catch
this? The inspection results when we purchased the home made no
mention of the damage. Are the previous inspectors in any way liable?
After I heard what the inspector found, I crawled under the house to
see and it was blatantly obvious, even to me that something severe was
going on? We have had two estimates for replacing the damage and they
include replacing about 20% of our home's hardwood floors, a new door
jam, a new sliding glass door, new linoleum (sp). They said they would
have to jack up one full side of our brick house. I have not recieved
the $ estimate, but knowing all this, it is not going to be pretty. I
looked all around and could not find anything posted with similar
circumstances. Any help anyone can provide would be excellent. If you
need to know, I live in Alabama and the inspector that missed the
structure damage is in Georgia, but licensed to inspect in Alabama and
Georgia. Thanks!!!!!

This is Turtle.

I can only speak about this happening in Louisiana and not other states.
Louisiana has a undisclosed problems on real estate dealings. If you buy a home
from a real estate agent and you find a major problem [ defined as $1,000.00+ ]
the agent will have a choice to repair it or give your money back. The agent
does have a choice. In Louisiana all agents have insurance for this if it makes
them go broke over it. There is also a 2 year time limit on this rule.

Now you got to go back over all the contracts and look and see if this problem
was disclosed anywhere in the writtings or even notes to you when dealing. If
you was not told about it. They eat it. Just check everything to make sure you
was not told about it.

Now you need to check your state rules on selling home by real estate agents in
your state and see what they have to say. I would think Georgia would have
something like this , but I could be wrong here.

TURTLE

TURTLE wrote:

"Starscream_1977" wrote in message
om...
snip
This is Turtle.

snip

There should have been a "disclosure" listing of any known problems
signed by the previous owner. If the problem was not listed there and it
has been patched then the previous owner must have known about it and
not disclosed it. What does your real estate lawyer say?

Medusa writes:
There should have been a "disclosure" listing of any known problems
signed by the previous owner.

Such disclosures are by no means required in every state, and in many
states where they are required, they are not required to "list any
known problems" but are rather required to answer a specific set of
questions specified by regulation which may or may not include
questions about the type of defect we're discussing.

Alabama, where the OP said the house was located in, does *not*
require disclosure, and is in fact one of the two remaining states
whose law is "caveat emptor" on home sales, at least according to
http://www.bankrate.com/brm/news/rea...20031023b1.asp.

On 15 Oct 2004 09:35:25 -0700, someone wrote:

...Any help anyone can provide would be excellent.

Ask your attorney. If you don't have one, get one. This is too big a
problem to cheap out now and depend on free advise from people who
have never seen your house AND never seen any of the contracts,
agreements or inspection reports in question.

(Starscream_1977) wrote in message . com...
We recently purchased a 50 plus year old home in May of this year. Due
to a long list of reasons, we have decided to sell the home. We have a
buyer and closing was scheduled for today. However, yesterday, during
the final inspection (the second inspection on the home since we have
owned it) found that the house is "structurally unsound" due to water
damage. It was estimated that the problem has existed for well over 3
years. Water has been seeping in around the frame of the back sliding
glass door. My question is, how did the previous inspections not catch
this? The inspection results when we purchased the home made no
mention of the damage. Are the previous inspectors in any way liable?
After I heard what the inspector found, I crawled under the house to
see and it was blatantly obvious, even to me that something severe was
going on? We have had two estimates for replacing the damage and they
include replacing about 20% of our home's hardwood floors, a new door
jam, a new sliding glass door, new linoleum (sp). They said they would
have to jack up one full side of our brick house. I have not recieved
the $ estimate, but knowing all this, it is not going to be pretty. I
looked all around and could not find anything posted with similar
circumstances. Any help anyone can provide would be excellent. If you
need to know, I live in Alabama and the inspector that missed the
structure damage is in Georgia, but licensed to inspect in Alabama and
Georgia. Thanks!!!!!


I understand damage to the floor, door jamb, etc., but why does half
the house have to be jacked? How much jacking is there to do (an inch,
a foot)? Replacing part of the floor, the jamb, etc. doesn't have to
be really expensive. I don't know whether I've ever seen a brick house
on pier and beam. Everyone I've ever seen are on slabs or have a
basement.

If you can PROVE that the previous owner was aware of the problem you almost
certainly have a case. It is illegal to fail to disclose any structural
problems and the contract surely has a clause to the effect that the seller
was not aware of any significant problems that were not disclosed.

Maybe, if you are lucky, you can find someone who actually worked on the
house and get a statement from them to the effect that they described the
problem to the owner. Just a patch might not be enough though; they could
argue that it was already there when they bought the place and weren't even
aware of it.


"Starscream_1977" wrote in message
om...
what does your contract with the appraiser say?

I'm not sure I know what you're asking. I don't think we had a
contract with the appraiser. All that was setup through our real
estate agent. I will see if I can find any paperwork, though. I
appreciate the help. The seller of the house, when we bought it, lived
here for 33 years and did not disclose this problem, although we have
3 licensed contractors who came and said that the problem has been
around for a number of years and that the owner had to have known
about it, because it was "patched" once before.

"Jamie" writes:
If you can PROVE that the previous owner was aware of the problem you almost
certainly have a case. It is illegal to fail to disclose any structural
problems

That's hardly universally true.

Many states require sellers to answer truthfully when *asked*
but does not require them to disclose information for which
they are not asked.

Alabama, where the house we're discussing is located, falls
into this category.

Massachusetts, for example, requires sellers to answer
honestly but does not require a formal disclosure. On the
other hand, it does require real estate agents to disclose any
information they know which may impact a buyer's decision to
purchase a property. Some Massashuetts agents address this
requirement by asking all sellers to fill out a detailed
questionnaire; others go to the opposite extreme and
explicitly tell sellers not to give them any information they
wouldn't want to give to a buyer, because once the agent has
been given the information they have to disclose it.

I stand corrected, my assumption was based only on the standard disclosure
form for my home purchase, which I guess is different depending on state
law. It seems like such a sensible thing I assumed it was probably a
standard in the US. In my case, the boilerplate was to the effect that the
seller attests that any known problems of any consequence have been
disclosed.

"Jonathan Kamens" wrote in message
...
"Jamie" writes:
If you can PROVE that the previous owner was aware of the problem you
almost
certainly have a case. It is illegal to fail to disclose any structural
problems

That's hardly universally true.

Many states require sellers to answer truthfully when *asked*
but does not require them to disclose information for which
they are not asked.

Alabama, where the house we're discussing is located, falls
into this category.

Massachusetts, for example, requires sellers to answer
honestly but does not require a formal disclosure. On the
other hand, it does require real estate agents to disclose any
information they know which may impact a buyer's decision to
purchase a property. Some Massashuetts agents address this
requirement by asking all sellers to fill out a detailed
questionnaire; others go to the opposite extreme and
explicitly tell sellers not to give them any information they
wouldn't want to give to a buyer, because once the agent has
been given the information they have to disclose it.

On Tue, 19 Oct 2004 15:15:08 -0400, someone wrote:

... In my case, the boilerplate was to the effect that the
seller attests that any known problems of any consequence have been
disclosed.

Sounds like a good setup to litigate what constitutes "of
consequence". Is there actually a law that requires a Seller to
execute such a statement? If there was a law that says that a Seller
has to disclose, then no statement would necessarily be required, the
Seller would be obligated to disclose, whether he signed such a
statement or not. OTOH if there was NOT a disclosure law, Buyers
would want such statements to give them protections that were NOT
automatic under law.

-v.

On 15 Oct 2004 18:40:09 -0700,
(Starscream_1977) wrote:

what does your contract with the appraiser say?

I'm not sure I know what you're asking. I don't think we had a
contract with the appraiser. All that was setup through our real
estate agent. I will see if I can find any paperwork, though. I
appreciate the help. The seller of the house, when we bought it, lived
here for 33 years and did not disclose this problem, although we have
3 licensed contractors who came and said that the problem has been
around for a number of years and that the owner had to have known
about it, because it was "patched" once before.

First, I am not a lawyer, take my advice for what it may be worth: If
you live in California, there is a legal requirement to disclose known
structural defects. If your inspector will put it in writing that
there is evidence of prior repairs and that the problems is some years
old, you may have recourse.

The inspection wheny ou bought the place may also provide a means of
relief, most ghome inspectors again at least in Ca. carry "errors and
omissions insurance and their work has some level of guarentee.

All this depends ont he laws od the state inw hich you live. You're
gonna need a lawyer no matter what at this point if you expect to get
anything out of the seller or prior inspector. Plus you want to be
sure you preserve your legal options and don't muck up anything.


If you're talking a couple of $K to fix things it might not be wortht
he efort but if it's 10 or 20k, it's timne to get serious and get a
pro on your side.

Good luck,

Jim P.