Cindy Hamilton wrote:
...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it never
cools off? You're FOS

Well, look at it this way:

The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
He only
has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. If
he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would have a
lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when he's done using hot
water, but probably not as great as the usage from heating up all of
that
40 F water.

Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably doubles the
savings I get.

It is nice to see others here that can really think.

Bob F wrote:
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it never
cools off? You're FOS

Well, look at it this way:

The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
He only
has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. If
he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would have
a lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when he's done using
hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from heating up
all of that
40 F water.

Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably
doubles the savings I get.

It is nice to see others here that can really think.

I guess we can always add that during the heating season, those losses heat the
house, cutting down furnace usage. Since I don't have A/C, no losses there.

On May 18, 10:30*am, "Bob F" wrote:
Bob F wrote:
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it never
cools off? You're FOS

Well, look at it this way:

The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
He only
has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. *If
he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would have
a lot more work to do. *Yes, there are losses when he's done using
hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from heating up
all of that
40 F water.

Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably
doubles the savings I get.

It is nice to see others here that can really think.

I guess we can always add that during the heating season, those losses heat the
house, cutting down furnace usage. Since I don't have A/C, no losses there.

You're losing the heat and heating the house.

On May 18, 12:24*pm, keith wrote:
On May 18, 10:30*am, "Bob F" wrote:





Bob F wrote:
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it never
cools off? You're FOS

Well, look at it this way:

The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
He only
has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. *If
he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would have
a lot more work to do. *Yes, there are losses when he's done using
hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from heating up
all of that
40 F water.

Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably
doubles the savings I get.

It is nice to see others here that can really think.

I guess we can always add that during the heating season, those losses heat the
house, cutting down furnace usage. Since I don't have A/C, no losses there.

You're losing the heat and heating the house.

I don't think Bob F ever said what his setup is like, but if his
plumbing runs
through the basement, the heating is negligible in practical terms.
Yes,
from a purely physics standpoint it's there, but it's like cooking a
pot of
soup with a candle.

Cindy Hamilton

On May 18, 12:27*pm, Cindy Hamilton
wrote:
On May 18, 12:24*pm, keith wrote:



On May 18, 10:30*am, "Bob F" wrote:

Bob F wrote:
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it never
cools off? You're FOS

Well, look at it this way:

The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature..
He only
has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. *If
he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would have
a lot more work to do. *Yes, there are losses when he's done using
hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from heating up
all of that
40 F water.

Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably
doubles the savings I get.

It is nice to see others here that can really think.

I guess we can always add that during the heating season, those losses heat the
house, cutting down furnace usage. Since I don't have A/C, no losses there.

You're losing the heat and heating the house.

I don't think Bob F ever said what his setup is like, but if his
plumbing runs
through the basement, the heating is negligible in practical terms.
Yes,
from a purely physics standpoint it's there, but it's like cooking a
pot of
soup with a candle.

He was claiming that the waste heat helped in the Winter. ...can't
have it both ways.

Someone in the thread was pointing out heat loss in pipes. Well, it's
doubled, at minimum, if the hot water is recirculated back to the
water heater. ...can't have it both ways.

Yes, the losses may be insignificant (where "insignificant" is up to
the bill payer), but it *is* there. I won't buy CFLs because any
savings is insignificant.

keith wrote:
He was claiming that the waste heat helped in the Winter. ...can't
have it both ways.

Someone in the thread was pointing out heat loss in pipes. Well, it's
doubled, at minimum, if the hot water is recirculated back to the
water heater. ...can't have it both ways.

The hot water doesn't get back to the heater. The pump turns off before that.
The hot water gets to the faucet.

In article , "Bob F" wrote:
Bob F wrote:
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it never
cools off? You're FOS

Well, look at it this way:

The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
He only
has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. If
he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would have
a lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when he's done using
hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from heating up
all of that
40 F water.

Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably
doubles the savings I get.

It is nice to see others here that can really think.

I guess we can always add that during the heating season, those losses heat the

house, cutting down furnace usage. Since I don't have A/C, no losses there.


The biggest problem is old heaters that constantly suck air out the
house through the one way exaust. A constant pilot produces constant
flow. Every day, all the time. A closed system is the most efficient.
I don't guess there is one that closes the pipe when there is no flame.

greg

GregS wrote:
In article , "Bob F"
wrote:
Bob F wrote:
Cindy Hamilton wrote:
...and that water in the return line never gets hot? ...or it
never cools off? You're FOS

Well, look at it this way:

The water in the return line is probably close to room temperature.
He only
has to heat it from room temperature to his target temperature. If
he was pulling in cold water from underground, his heater would
have a lot more work to do. Yes, there are losses when he's done
using hot water, but probably not as great as the usage from
heating up all of that
40 F water.

Very good point. I hadn't even thought of that aspect. It probably
doubles the savings I get.

It is nice to see others here that can really think.

I guess we can always add that during the heating season, those
losses heat the

house, cutting down furnace usage. Since I don't have A/C, no losses
there.


The biggest problem is old heaters that constantly suck air out the
house through the one way exaust. A constant pilot produces constant
flow. Every day, all the time. A closed system is the most efficient.
I don't guess there is one that closes the pipe when there is no
flame.

I think the power vent heaters would approximate that catagory.