This is relating to UK England. I have been renting a flat for about
10

months. Before I got my current flat I had to go through a letting
agency

who manages the landlords' work. The letting agency charged me:

- Admin fee £130
- References £30 (x2 for my partner)
- Security Deposit = 1.5 x (one month rent)
- 1st month rent

This letting agency only accepts 'bankers draft' (banks cheque). I
assume

this 'bankers draft cheque' is to guarantee full upfront payment. I
assume

the references is to check up on long-term reliability. I assume the
admin

fee is for the agency's hard work in photo-copying the tenancy
agreement

contracts.

Recently I spoke with my landlord to ask if he had any other flats

available. He says there's one available soon and it only costs £50
more a

month. It's been 10 months I have been with him (my current landlord)
and

decided to stick with him. I told him I'll take the new flat and he
said

he'll keep it for me.

I haven't spoken to him about details on transfer. But am worried
because he

did mention about a new contract that I will have to sign at the
agency. My

full concern is whether I have to pay admin fee, references again. Is
£130

admin fee too high? What is the normal admin fee in UK England
nowadays? And

do I really need to pay for references again? Also the 1st month rent
in

bankers draft? The bankers draft was only required to guarantee the
1st

installment & security desposit. But I already have a continueing
standing

order setup to my landlord?

Please can someone help advise me on, by law, on what rights I have,
and

what the landlord/agency can really charge me.

At 01:03:14 on 21/02/2007, Andrew Wan delighted uk.legal by announcing:

This is relating to UK England. I have been renting a flat for about
10

months. Before I got my current flat I had to go through a letting
agency

who manages the landlords' work. The letting agency charged me:

- Admin fee £130
- References £30 (x2 for my partner)

I don't understand what this latter charge was for.

- Security Deposit = 1.5 x (one month rent)
- 1st month rent

Fair enough.

Recently I spoke with my landlord to ask if he had any other flats

available. He says there's one available soon and it only costs £50
more a

month. It's been 10 months I have been with him (my current landlord)
and

decided to stick with him. I told him I'll take the new flat and he
said

he'll keep it for me.

I haven't spoken to him about details on transfer. But am worried
because he

did mention about a new contract that I will have to sign at the
agency. My

Why is he insisting on this? It's his choice ultimately. If you're a
good tenant, and he wants to keep you, you may be able to negotiate
around this.

full concern is whether I have to pay admin fee, references again. Is
£130

admin fee too high? What is the normal admin fee in UK England
nowadays?

Well, on that question, there's no 'normal' fee. Some charge the
tenants absolutely nothing.

Your contract is ultimately with the landlord in any case, so if you
feel it's unfair then discuss it with him. There's no reason you
should need new references or pay by bank draft.

Please can someone help advise me on, by law, on what rights I have,
and

what the landlord/agency can really charge me.

I've never been comfortable with letting agents charging tenants as
well as landlords. As far as I'm concerned, they should not be able to
charge tenants for the routine admin (introductions, tenancy
agreements, references, etc.) which should be paid by the landlord.
That is, after all, what *he* is paying them for.

On 21 Feb, 09:38, "Alex" wrote:
At 01:03:14 on 21/02/2007, Andrew Wan delighted uk.legal by announcing:

This is relating to UK England. I have been renting a flat for about
10

months. Before I got my current flat I had to go through a letting
agency

who manages the landlords' work. The letting agency charged me:

- Admin fee £130
- References £30 (x2 for my partner)

I don't understand what this latter charge was for.

- Security Deposit = 1.5 x (one month rent)
- 1st month rent

Fair enough.





Recently I spoke with my landlord to ask if he had any other flats

available. He says there's one available soon and it only costs £50
more a

month. It's been 10 months I have been with him (my current landlord)
and

decided to stick with him. I told him I'll take the new flat and he
said

he'll keep it for me.

I haven't spoken to him about details on transfer. But am worried
because he

did mention about a new contract that I will have to sign at the
agency. My

Why is he insisting on this? It's his choice ultimately. If you're a
good tenant, and he wants to keep you, you may be able to negotiate
around this.

full concern is whether I have to pay admin fee, references again. Is
£130

admin fee too high? What is the normal admin fee in UK England
nowadays?

Well, on that question, there's no 'normal' fee. Some charge the
tenants absolutely nothing.

Your contract is ultimately with the landlord in any case, so if you
feel it's unfair then discuss it with him. There's no reason you
should need new references or pay by bank draft.

Please can someone help advise me on, by law, on what rights I have,
and

what the landlord/agency can really charge me.

I've never been comfortable with letting agents charging tenants as
well as landlords.

Same here. But credit referencing costs money which is not
refundable.
I can't see a landlord or agency paying that fee for several tenants
that don't actually
sign the lease.


As far as I'm concerned, they should not be able to
charge tenants for the routine admin (introductions, tenancy
agreements, references, etc.) which should be paid by the landlord.
That is, after all, what *he* is paying them for.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

At 11:37:59 on 22/02/2007, delighted uk.legal by
announcing:

Please can someone help advise me on, by law, on what rights I
have, and

what the landlord/agency can really charge me.

I've never been comfortable with letting agents charging tenants as
well as landlords.

Same here. But credit referencing costs money which is not
refundable.

£130?

I can't see a landlord or agency paying that fee for several tenants
that don't actually sign the lease.

Then they should build the costs into the rent if that's what they're
doing, not charge one tenant for the others that don't pay. It's a
similar concept to banks building the risk into the APR rather than the
penalty charges. The latter are being found unfair where they aren't
the true cost of processing. I view agency charges to tenants in
exactly the same way.

My dad runs a letting agency and takes the same view. The only
standard charges are to landlords; 50% of the first month's rent plus a
percentage of the rent each month if he's managing the let. The only
time a tenant is charged anything (other than rent or deposit) is for
late payment or for non-essential servies.

On 21 Feb, 01:03, "Andrew Wan" wrote:
This is relating to UK England. I have been renting a flat for about
10

months. Before I got my current flat I had to go through a letting
agency

who manages the landlords' work. The letting agency charged me:

- Admin fee £130
- References £30 (x2 for my partner)
- Security Deposit = 1.5 x (one month rent)
- 1st month rent

This letting agency only accepts 'bankers draft' (banks cheque). I
assume

this 'bankers draft cheque' is to guarantee full upfront payment. I
assume

the references is to check up on long-term reliability. I assume the
admin

fee is for the agency's hard work in photo-copying the tenancy
agreement

contracts.

Recently I spoke with my landlord to ask if he had any other flats

available. He says there's one available soon and it only costs £50
more a

month. It's been 10 months I have been with him (my current landlord)
and

decided to stick with him. I told him I'll take the new flat and he
said

he'll keep it for me.

I haven't spoken to him about details on transfer. But am worried
because he

did mention about a new contract that I will have to sign at the
agency. My

full concern is whether I have to pay admin fee, references again. Is
£130

admin fee too high? What is the normal admin fee in UK England
nowadays? And

do I really need to pay for references again? Also the 1st month rent
in

bankers draft? The bankers draft was only required to guarantee the
1st

installment & security desposit. But I already have a continueing
standing

order setup to my landlord?

Please can someone help advise me on, by law, on what rights I have,
and

what the landlord/agency can really charge me.

Hi Andrew

I am not a legal expert so this is just an opinion.
Any rights in UK law would only apply to the actual tenancy agreement.
The tenancy agreement is a binding contract with conditions on both
sides.
That part is straightforward.

But there is nothing in law to stop the letting agent making these
charges.
Obviously it would be different if they charged you and then failed to
give you anything in return.
That is again straightforward contract law.

The private rented housing market was "de-regulated" in the 1980s so
landlords (and letting agents) can charge whatever they like.
It is left to "market forces" to control their charges. e.g. if they
charge too much, no-one will pay.
Maybe you have heard of our previous Prime Minister - Margaret
Thatcher? That was one of her ideas.
She obviously never had to rent privately.

Pete

"Zargon" wrote in message
ups.com...
On 21 Feb, 01:03, "Andrew Wan" wrote:
This is relating to UK England. I have been renting a flat for about
10

months. Before I got my current flat I had to go through a letting
agency

who manages the landlords' work. The letting agency charged me:

- Admin fee £130
- References £30 (x2 for my partner)
- Security Deposit = 1.5 x (one month rent)
- 1st month rent

My full concern is whether I have to pay admin fee, references again. Is
£130 admin fee too high? What is the normal admin fee in UK England
nowadays? And do I really need to pay for references again? Also the 1st
month rent in bankers draft?

Normally there is a single fee, and often it is the landlord who pays or it
is subsummed in the commission. This agent is taking the proverbial, but on
the other hand is taking more risk with foreign tenants, who are much harder
to chase if they flit.

Payment by banker's draft would tend to be in cases where you were moving in
quickly and there was not enough time for cheques to clear. It is normal to
take the deposit (between one and two months rent) and first months rent in
advance.

The agency stands to pay rent if you default at the start.

As you seem to have direct contact with your landlord and are a good payer
he may wish to cut them out on a deal on a different flat.


Hi Andrew


The private rented housing market was "de-regulated" in the 1980s so
landlords (and letting agents) can charge whatever they like.
It is left to "market forces" to control their charges. e.g. if they
charge too much, no-one will pay.
Maybe you have heard of our previous Prime Minister - Margaret
Thatcher? That was one of her ideas.
She obviously never had to rent privately.

Pete

I live in a popular suburb of a major UK city.

In 1975 I rented a flat here. I recall that there were just three rentals
advertised in the local paper. We got ours because we were introduced to
the agent (also the landlord) by a departing tenant before it could be
advertised. You had to pay three months rent as deposit, a month up front
and the rent was equivalent to over £1,000pcm today and representing a gross
return of over 10%. This was a typical deal. Our agent / landlord was
honest and respectable, but many others were crooks and only one mainstream
estate agent handled tenancies. Often landlords left property empty because
of the virtual impossibility of evicting delinquent tenants and rent
control.

Nowadays there are several columns of properties to let in the paper and
most of the mainstream estate agents do lettings. In real terms rents are
about 75% of 1975 levels representing a gross return of 3-4% and
commencement terms are usually one month's rent in advance, and 5 or 6 weeks
deposit. Deal direct with the landlord and there are usually no fees. In
the city centre, where there is a bit of glut of newly built flats, some
sitting tenants have successfully negotiated rent reductions at renewal.

What was your point again?

On 21 Feb, 11:50, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:
"Zargon" wrote in message

ups.com...
On 21 Feb, 01:03, "Andrew Wan" wrote:





This is relating to UK England. I have been renting a flat for about
10

months. Before I got my current flat I had to go through a letting
agency

who manages the landlords' work. The letting agency charged me:

- Admin fee £130
- References £30 (x2 for my partner)
- Security Deposit = 1.5 x (one month rent)
- 1st month rent

My full concern is whether I have to pay admin fee, references again. Is
£130 admin fee too high? What is the normal admin fee in UK England
nowadays? And do I really need to pay for references again? Also the 1st
month rent in bankers draft?

Normally there is a single fee, and often it is the landlord who pays or it
is subsummed in the commission. This agent is taking the proverbial, but on
the other hand is taking more risk with foreign tenants, who are much harder
to chase if they flit.

Payment by banker's draft would tend to be in cases where you were moving in
quickly and there was not enough time for cheques to clear. It is normal to
take the deposit (between one and two months rent) and first months rent in
advance.

The agency stands to pay rent if you default at the start.

As you seem to have direct contact with your landlord and are a good payer
he may wish to cut them out on a deal on a different flat.

Hi Andrew

The private rented housing market was "de-regulated" in the 1980s so

landlords (and letting agents) can charge whatever they like.
It is left to "market forces" to control their charges. e.g. if they
charge too much, no-one will pay.
Maybe you have heard of our previous Prime Minister - Margaret
Thatcher? That was one of her ideas.
She obviously never had to rent privately.

Pete

I live in a popular suburb of a major UK city.

In 1975 I rented a flat here. I recall that there were just three rentals
advertised in the local paper. We got ours because we were introduced to
the agent (also the landlord) by a departing tenant before it could be
advertised. You had to pay three months rent as deposit, a month up front
and the rent was equivalent to over £1,000pcm today and representing a gross
return of over 10%. This was a typical deal. Our agent / landlord was
honest and respectable, but many others were crooks and only one mainstream
estate agent handled tenancies. Often landlords left property empty because
of the virtual impossibility of evicting delinquent tenants and rent
control.

Nowadays there are several columns of properties to let in the paper and
most of the mainstream estate agents do lettings. In real terms rents are
about 75% of 1975 levels representing a gross return of 3-4% and
commencement terms are usually one month's rent in advance, and 5 or 6 weeks
deposit. Deal direct with the landlord and there are usually no fees. In
the city centre, where there is a bit of glut of newly built flats, some
sitting tenants have successfully negotiated rent reductions at renewal.

In Manchester there were ~200 people living in the city centre in the
early 1990s.
Now that is over 8,000 and set to reach 20,000. It looks like
Shanghai. I believe
other cities have a similar story.

So clearly people are taking huge bets that we don't have 'over-
supply'. Instead more
people bring the demand for more amneties, more infrastructure.











What was your point again?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

wrote in message
oups.com...
On 21 Feb, 11:50, "R. Mark Clayton"
wrote:

I live in a popular suburb of a major UK city.

In 1975 I rented a flat here. I recall that there were just three rentals
advertised in the local paper. We got ours because we were introduced to
the agent (also the landlord) by a departing tenant before it could be
advertised. You had to pay three months rent as deposit, a month up front
and the rent was equivalent to over £1,000pcm today and representing a
gross
return of over 10%. This was a typical deal. Our agent / landlord was
honest and respectable, but many others were crooks and only one
mainstream
estate agent handled tenancies. Often landlords left property empty
because
of the virtual impossibility of evicting delinquent tenants and rent
control.

Nowadays there are several columns of properties to let in the paper and
most of the mainstream estate agents do lettings. In real terms rents are
about 75% of 1975 levels representing a gross return of 3-4% and
commencement terms are usually one month's rent in advance, and 5 or 6
weeks
deposit. Deal direct with the landlord and there are usually no fees. In
the city centre, where there is a bit of glut of newly built flats, some
sitting tenants have successfully negotiated rent reductions at renewal.

In Manchester there were ~200 people living in the city centre in the
early 1990s.

Many more than that had always lived in the city centre (well since the
war).

By 1990, Wimpey's development (~1979 - 92) was already in place and there
were several others (some council). So I would give a figure of ~2-3,000 by
1990.

Now that is over 8,000 and set to reach 20,000. It looks like
Shanghai. I believe other cities have a similar story.

So clearly people are taking huge bets that we don't have 'over-
supply'. Instead more people bring the demand for more amneties, more
infrastructure.

OTOH at least partly true. Should have bought that pied a terre in the
Barbican for £60k in 1994.










What was your point again?- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

On 21 Feb, 01:03, "Andrew Wan" wrote:
This is relating to UK England. I have been renting a flat for about
10

months. Before I got my current flat I had to go through a letting
agency

who manages the landlords' work. The letting agency charged me:

- Admin fee £130
- References £30 (x2 for my partner)
- Security Deposit = 1.5 x (one month rent)
- 1st month rent

This letting agency only accepts 'bankers draft' (banks cheque). I
assume

this 'bankers draft cheque' is to guarantee full upfront payment. I
assume

the references is to check up on long-term reliability. I assume the
admin

fee is for the agency's hard work in photo-copying the tenancy
agreement

contracts.

Recently I spoke with my landlord to ask if he had any other flats

available. He says there's one available soon and it only costs £50
more a

month. It's been 10 months I have been with him (my current landlord)
and

decided to stick with him. I told him I'll take the new flat and he
said

he'll keep it for me.

I haven't spoken to him about details on transfer. But am worried
because he

did mention about a new contract that I will have to sign at the
agency. My

full concern is whether I have to pay admin fee, references again. Is
£130

admin fee too high? What is the normal admin fee in UK England
nowadays? And

do I really need to pay for references again? Also the 1st month rent
in

bankers draft? The bankers draft was only required to guarantee the
1st

installment & security desposit. But I already have a continueing
standing

order setup to my landlord?

Please can someone help advise me on, by law, on what rights I have,
and

what the landlord/agency can really charge me.

There is no need to get references a second time if the landlord
agrees.

The biggest fee is the initial fee paid by the landlord (for
marketing, viewing, setting up lease). If the agent has a tenant
lined up the agent makes more money this way as most of this is not
needed.

Remember: EVERYTHING is negotiable. Speak to your landlord first.

On 20 Feb 2007 17:03:14 -0800, "Andrew Wan"
wrote:

Please can someone help advise me on, by law, on what rights I have,
and

what the landlord/agency can really charge me.

inappropriate groups removed

I agree with what everyone else has told you.

You've already proved yourself to be a good tenant so cut out the
agency. The landlord may also gets charged the same admin fee as well
- I do.

Talk to the landlord and explain that you think that you're being
taken for a ride.

ARLA, the industry body produces standard contracts -
URL:http://www.arla.co.uk/info/dynamicorder.htm or you could type
out your existing one and use it again.

Agencies charge landlords 10-15% + VAT of each rent payment for full
management services, which it sounds like you are on, so you could
offer to split the difference with the landlord. The issue may be that
the landlord may not want you calling him up if something goes wrong,
so you may need to offer to do everything and deduct it from the rent.

Daytona
(Landlord & tenant, not a lawyer)