They suck. That is all.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Todd H. wrote:
They suck. That is all.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/


Hmmm, that was very informative.

Todd H. wrote:
They suck. That is all.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

They really do. I've seen more busted ones than I've seen working ones.
It's ball valves for me.

"z" writes:

Todd H. wrote:
They suck. That is all.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

They really do. I've seen more busted ones than I've seen working ones.
It's ball valves for me.

And for me, oh, $800 later. :-) Got some other stuff that'd be
lagging around the house done at the same time though. When you get
a good plumber out, may as well get em to fix all the niggling stuff.

Some bozo had put a replacement water heater in this place with no cut
off valve and no unions on the top.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Todd H. wrote:
"z" writes:

Todd H. wrote:
They suck. That is all.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

They really do. I've seen more busted ones than I've seen working ones.
It's ball valves for me.

And for me, oh, $800 later. :-) Got some other stuff that'd be
lagging around the house done at the same time though. When you get
a good plumber out, may as well get em to fix all the niggling stuff.

Some bozo had put a replacement water heater in this place with no cut
off valve and no unions on the top.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Most water heaters today are installed with no unions, which makes
sense because cutting copper pipe is no big deal and unions can leak.
Don't know what your issue with gate valves is. They are widely used
not only for homes, but in industrial applications. I have a couple
and they work fine. I prefer them for shutoffs, because they are quick
and easy to open/close.

writes:

Most water heaters today are installed with no unions, which makes
sense because cutting copper pipe is no big deal and unions can
leak.

In IL it's evidently not to code to have a water heater installed
without them.

Don't know what your issue with gate valves is.

A pair of 15 year old ones failed on me is what.

They are widely used not only for homes, but in industrial
applications. I have a couple and they work fine. I prefer them
for shutoffs, because they are quick and easy to open/close.

The licensed plumbers I know won't use anything but ball valves for
shutoffs because of the frequency with which gate valves did exactly
what they did at my home a couple weeks ago.

YMMV with water hardness, etc.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Todd H. wrote:
writes:

Most water heaters today are installed with no unions, which makes
sense because cutting copper pipe is no big deal and unions can
leak.

In IL it's evidently not to code to have a water heater installed
without them.

Don't know what your issue with gate valves is.

A pair of 15 year old ones failed on me is what.

Failed in what way? Maybe they were just cheap inferior ones. Like
anything else, how long they last depends on quality. There is no
inherrent failure mechanism in gate valves, which are made of the same
materials, that I'm aware of, as compared to ball valves. They are
widely used everywhere with no apparent problems.





They are widely used not only for homes, but in industrial
applications. I have a couple and they work fine. I prefer them
for shutoffs, because they are quick and easy to open/close.

The licensed plumbers I know won't use anything but ball valves for
shutoffs because of the frequency with which gate valves did exactly
what they did at my home a couple weeks ago.

YMMV with water hardness, etc.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

In article .com,
says...

Todd H. wrote:
writes:

Most water heaters today are installed with no unions, which makes
sense because cutting copper pipe is no big deal and unions can
leak.

In IL it's evidently not to code to have a water heater installed
without them.

Don't know what your issue with gate valves is.

A pair of 15 year old ones failed on me is what.

Failed in what way? Maybe they were just cheap inferior ones. Like
anything else, how long they last depends on quality. There is no
inherrent failure mechanism in gate valves, which are made of the same
materials, that I'm aware of, as compared to ball valves. They are
widely used everywhere with no apparent problems.

I've had plenty of packing washers fail on gate valves. The action
tends to wear the packing and loosen the nuts. Packing washers
tend to dry out if not used too. Ball valves aren't as affected.
Ball valves are a bit more expensive but worth it, IMO.

--
Keith

writes:

Todd H. wrote:
writes:

Most water heaters today are installed with no unions, which makes
sense because cutting copper pipe is no big deal and unions can
leak.

In IL it's evidently not to code to have a water heater installed
without them.

Don't know what your issue with gate valves is.

A pair of 15 year old ones failed on me is what.

Failed in what way? Maybe they were just cheap inferior ones. Like
anything else, how long they last depends on quality. There is no
inherrent failure mechanism in gate valves, which are made of the same
materials, that I'm aware of, as compared to ball valves. They are
widely used everywhere with no apparent problems.

There are fewer moving parts in a ball valve, and they're all
beefier.

Mine failed where the shaft of the handle inserts/screws into the
gate. The shaft was worn thin but where the shaft screwed into a
threaded portion o fthe gate was where the failure occurred. The last
few threads of the gate disintegrated when trying to open the valve
and left the shaft spinning free. In addition, deposits had built up
under the gate that prevented it from fully closing.

There are no screw mechanisms, shafts, or threads in a quarter turn
ball valve.

I'd had to replace 4 of these gate valves in two different houses (one
36 years old, one 16 years old) inside one year. The ones in the
older house didn't fail completely like the 16 year old valves -- they
just failed to shut the water completely off due to deposits under the
gate, and had to be replaced for that reason. Can't sweat pipe with
a trickle of water still getting through of course....


--
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Todd H. wrote:


Mine failed where the shaft of the handle inserts/screws into the
gate. The shaft was worn thin but where the shaft screwed into a
threaded portion o fthe gate was where the failure occurred. The last
few threads of the gate disintegrated when trying to open the valve
and left the shaft spinning free. In addition, deposits had built up
under the gate that prevented it from fully closing.

Yep, me too, same symptoms. After 5-6 hours of turning the knob, I
began to suspect that the valve was not going to close. Luckily, the
last resort valve, before the water meter, was a ball valve and worked.

"z" writes:

Todd H. wrote:


Mine failed where the shaft of the handle inserts/screws into the
gate. The shaft was worn thin but where the shaft screwed into a
threaded portion o fthe gate was where the failure occurred. The last
few threads of the gate disintegrated when trying to open the valve
and left the shaft spinning free. In addition, deposits had built up
under the gate that prevented it from fully closing.

Yep, me too, same symptoms. After 5-6 hours of turning the knob, I
began to suspect that the valve was not going to close. Luckily, the
last resort valve, before the water meter, was a ball valve and
worked.

Lucky. :-)

Had gates on either side of the meter. Neither would close fully,
and darnit if one of them wouldn't then open at all. heh.

But, ball valves in both locations now. 8-) Had to be replaced
sooner or later, I suppose, so I'm glad it failed closed during an
instance where i wasn't experiencing an inside water leak or break
anywhere! I guess that's the feel good for me anyway.

But I stand by my newfound "gate valves suck" opinion. :-)

--
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

z wrote:
Todd H. wrote:


Mine failed where the shaft of the handle inserts/screws into the
gate. The shaft was worn thin but where the shaft screwed into a
threaded portion o fthe gate was where the failure occurred. The last
few threads of the gate disintegrated when trying to open the valve
and left the shaft spinning free. In addition, deposits had built up
under the gate that prevented it from fully closing.

Yep, me too, same symptoms. After 5-6 hours of turning the knob, I
began to suspect that the valve was not going to close. Luckily, the
last resort valve, before the water meter, was a ball valve and worked.


Well, I guess we are in agreement folks. I had ball and gate valves
mixed up. So, I actually prefer 1/4 turn ball valves for easy shutoff.
That's why I was having a hard time figuring out what anyone had
against them, since I always thought they were as least as good as
other valves. I agree, I've seen more problems with gate valves, now
that I know which is which.

writes:

z wrote:
Todd H. wrote:


Mine failed where the shaft of the handle inserts/screws into the
gate. The shaft was worn thin but where the shaft screwed into a
threaded portion o fthe gate was where the failure occurred. The last
few threads of the gate disintegrated when trying to open the valve
and left the shaft spinning free. In addition, deposits had built up
under the gate that prevented it from fully closing.

Yep, me too, same symptoms. After 5-6 hours of turning the knob, I
began to suspect that the valve was not going to close. Luckily, the
last resort valve, before the water meter, was a ball valve and worked.


Well, I guess we are in agreement folks. I had ball and gate valves
mixed up. So, I actually prefer 1/4 turn ball valves for easy shutoff.
That's why I was having a hard time figuring out what anyone had
against them, since I always thought they were as least as good as
other valves. I agree, I've seen more problems with gate valves, now
that I know which is which.

Whew. Glad to know you hadn't become completely contrarian!

--
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

wrote:
z wrote:
Todd H. wrote:


Mine failed where the shaft of the handle inserts/screws into the
gate. The shaft was worn thin but where the shaft screwed into a
threaded portion o fthe gate was where the failure occurred. The last
few threads of the gate disintegrated when trying to open the valve
and left the shaft spinning free. In addition, deposits had built up
under the gate that prevented it from fully closing.

Yep, me too, same symptoms. After 5-6 hours of turning the knob, I
began to suspect that the valve was not going to close. Luckily, the
last resort valve, before the water meter, was a ball valve and worked.


Well, I guess we are in agreement folks. I had ball and gate valves
mixed up. So, I actually prefer 1/4 turn ball valves for easy shutoff.
That's why I was having a hard time figuring out what anyone had
against them, since I always thought they were as least as good as
other valves. I agree, I've seen more problems with gate valves, now
that I know which is which.

That's OK, one time I got my balls mixed up with a gate too, and it was
damned awful.