In a house that woulkd be flooded without a sump pump that depends on
electricity, where therefore a storm could really flood it, what kind of
a generator should be bought and how much should it cost, and is that
the best precaution?


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"In a house that woulkd be flooded without a sump pump that depends on
electricity, where therefore a storm could really flood it, what kind
of
a generator should be bought and how much should it cost, and is that
the best precaution? "

There are backup sump pumps that are driven by city water pressure. I
would look at one of those if your main concern is just running the
sump pump. The disadvantage to a generator is that unless you get the
type that will start and transfer automatically, someone has to be
there to start it. The fully automatic systems will run a lot more
than the sump pump, but are fairly expensive.

You can set one of the backup sump pumps to kick in when the water gets
a little higher than normal on the main pump.

wrote:
"In a house that woulkd be flooded without a sump pump that depends on
electricity, where therefore a storm could really flood it, what kind
of
a generator should be bought and how much should it cost, and is that
the best precaution? "

There are backup sump pumps that are driven by city water pressure. I
would look at one of those if your main concern is just running the
sump pump. The disadvantage to a generator is that unless you get the
type that will start and transfer automatically, someone has to be
there to start it. The fully automatic systems will run a lot more
than the sump pump, but are fairly expensive.

You can set one of the backup sump pumps to kick in when the water gets
a little higher than normal on the main pump.


This is one flavor of the water-powered pump:
http://www.basepump.com/Basepump.htm

If you don't have city water, this won't do much good:-)

The other possible is a sump pump which runs on storage batteries.
They *do* require diligent care so that the batteries aren't
flat when needed most, but the cost would be far less than
an automatic generator (which may also fail when needed).

Jim

(SAMMY FINKELMAN) writes:
In a house that woulkd be flooded without a sump pump that depends on
electricity, where therefore a storm could really flood it, what kind of
a generator should be bought and how much should it cost, and is that
the best precaution?

A generator is swell, but there's a cheaper option-- a battery backed
secondary sump pump.

Basement Watchdog is a good brand (recommend by every inspector I've
talked to in the past 6 years), and they are pretty easy to install
yourself. They sit just above your primary pump, and they are powered
by a deepcycle battery the size of a car battery.

If you're in an area prone to really extended outages, and you have a
lot of sump activity you can ramp up the capacity of these adding
additional batteries, or by also having a generator handy in case
things get really bad.

I'd say about half the homes I viewed in Chicagoland recently that
were less than 15 years old and had sumps had these redundant systems
installed.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

"A generator is swell, but there's a cheaper option-- a battery backed
secondary sump pump. "

Your comparing apples and oranges. A battery backup unit is great for
a short interruption in power. The OP was asking about protection from
power outages during a storm. IF you have a significant storm that
puts out the power, there is a very good chance that the power won't be
back on before the batteries are dead and the basement is flooded.

The battery backup together with having a manual transfer generator
can be a viable option. The batteries will give you time to get home
to start the generator. But If you have city water, one of the water
driven backup pumps is superior to all of this, if the sump pump is the
only power outage issue.

I don't have a sump pump (and don't need one), but I'm fascinated by the
backup pumps that run off of municipal water pressure.

Presumably water has to flow to drive these pumps, so where does the water
flow *to*? Does it get pumped out with the sump water or does it go into
the home's sewage drain?

It's a clever idea, but it seems like getting rid of the water they use
would be a problem -- I would think that the heavy rains that might
accompany a storm that would knock out power might also make the municipal
sewage draining system ineffective for sustained flows, especially if they
were widely popular in a given area. Which also raises the question about
what happens when everyone on your water line is using the same thing -- is
there a chance of loss of pressure, or at least enough to keep the pump from
working right?

I'm not a physicist, but it also strikes me that you couldn't use the
water-driven pump to pump its own water out (along with the sump water) --
it seems like there's a perpetual motion machine there. (Cue the Simpsons
"In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics.")

Obviously these things work and manage to overcome some of my naive,
armchair limitations. But how?

In article ,
Howard Beale wrote:

I'm not a physicist, but it also strikes me that you couldn't use the
water-driven pump to pump its own water out (along with the sump water) --
it seems like there's a perpetual motion machine there. (Cue the Simpsons
"In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics.")

Obviously these things work and manage to overcome some of my naive,
armchair limitations. But how?

No perpetual motion here. The ones I have used operate on a venturi
principal. Several gallons of city water passing thru and out to the
sewer (or whereever) will drag a gallon out of the sump.

You could probably implement it with a battery driving a valve from the
city supply triggered by a second float switch positioned somewhat
higher than the normal switch. Perhaps it could be done with a purely
mechanical float switch, perhaps like a toilet flush valve.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

One person:

1 "A generator is swell, but there's a cheaper option-- a battery
1 backed secondary sump pump. "

1 Basement Watchdog is a good brand (recommend by every inspector I've
1 talked to in the past 6 years), and they are pretty easy to install
1 yourself. They sit just above your primary pump, and they are
1 powered by a deepcycle battery the size of a car battery.

Is it as easy to install as, say a refrigerator? Actually I heard some
(small) generators are easy to install - you just plug in what you want
to back up.

Thank you for the recommendation.

Another:

2 Your comparing apples and oranges. A battery backup unit is great
2 for a short interruption in power. The OP was asking about
2 protection from power outages during a storm. IF you have a
2 significant storm that puts out the power, there is a very good
2 chance that the power won't be back on before the batteries are dead
2 and the basement is flooded.

The question is about how long would the batteries last.

1 If you're in an area prone to really extended outages, and you have a
1 lot of sump activity you can ramp up the capacity of these adding
1 additional batteries, or by also having a generator handy in case
1 things get really bad.

I think this place does have a lot of sump activity. I don't know if it
is prone to extended outages, but you have to figure that, IF there is
an outage, it may last a while, and anyway what happens if it happemns
even if it took ten years to happen?

How much can you add in battery time? Is it possible to have solar
backup or something like that? Would it last lomng enouygh - several
days - so that you had time to buy a generator?

2 The battery backup together with having a manual transfer generator
2 can be a viable option. The batteries will give you time to get home
2 to start the generator. But If you have city water, one of the
2 water driven backup pumps is superior to all of this, if the sump
2 pump is the only power outage issue.

There is no city or county water there. There might be other power
outage issues but the sump pump would be the moist important thing I
think.


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On 19 Dec 2005 04:37:43 -0800, wrote:

"A generator is swell, but there's a cheaper option-- a battery backed
secondary sump pump. "

Your comparing apples and oranges. A battery backup unit is great for
a short interruption in power. The OP was asking about protection from
power outages during a storm. IF you have a significant storm that
puts out the power, there is a very good chance that the power won't be
back on before the batteries are dead and the basement is flooded.

The battery backup together with having a manual transfer generator
can be a viable option. The batteries will give you time to get home
to start the generator. But If you have city water, one of the water
driven backup pumps is superior to all of this, if the sump pump is the
only power outage issue.

And if you don't lose the water pressure as well.

On Sat, 17 Dec 2005 23:25:18 -0400,
(SAMMY FINKELMAN) wrote:

In a house that woulkd be flooded without a sump pump that depends on
electricity, where therefore a storm could really flood it, what kind of
a generator should be bought and how much should it cost, and is that
the best precaution?


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http://www.ehow.com/how_8787_install...ator-sump.html might be
useful