We are building a cedar home and will be using cut glass(double panes
with a dark spacer) windows mounted in cedar in several areas. These
windows will not have any kind of trim, will be cut to fit our
specific openigs, will be stationary and won't open. They will be
mounted between some kind of cedar trim pieces and sealed with some
kind of silicone seal. I would like suggestions for the best way to
do this to minimize the possibility of having water leak by the seals
and into the framed opening that is attached to the structural wall.

Any suggestions for the best method or references to web sites that
might explain this will be appreciated. I am sure this is common in
cedar and log type homes. Thanks for any help.

wrote in message
...

We are building a cedar home and will be using cut glass(double panes
with a dark spacer) windows mounted in cedar in several areas. These
windows will not have any kind of trim, will be cut to fit our
specific openigs, will be stationary and won't open. They will be
mounted between some kind of cedar trim pieces and sealed with some
kind of silicone seal. I would like suggestions for the best way to
do this to minimize the possibility of having water leak by the seals
and into the framed opening that is attached to the structural wall.

Any suggestions for the best method or references to web sites that
might explain this will be appreciated. I am sure this is common in
cedar and log type homes. Thanks for any help.

Consult the appropriate technical authority for wherever you
live. Your key word is "flashing" which is metal protection
under the outer wall covering that extends to cover the top edges
of the window frame. Where no exterior trim is used, flashing
should perhaps extend higher than otherwise (because rainwater
can travel uphill for a few inches under siding etc.)

--
Don Phillipson
Carlsbad Springs
(Ottawa, Canada)

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:00:05 GMT, someone wrote:

We are building a cedar home and will be using cut glass(double panes
with a dark spacer) windows mounted in cedar in several areas. These
windows will not have any kind of trim, will be cut to fit our
specific openigs, will be stationary and won't open. They will be
mounted between some kind of cedar trim pieces and sealed with some
kind of silicone seal.

Why are you reinventing the wheel? Trying to save a dollar ninety
eight and just asking for trouble, cheaping out on your custom home?
There are "fixed light" windows readily available in custom sizes,
with the cavity sealed (and filled with inert gas if you like) and all
the perimeter sealing already done. Installed just like any other
window, just doeasn't open. (Techically called "fixed lights".)

My cedar sided (only sided) house (aside: what's the diff between
building a "cedar house" and a "cedar home"? marketing?) has some
fixed windows that perfectly match the operable windows, as they came
from the same window manufacturer. Just because they won't open,
isn't necessarily a good enough reason to try and build them yourself.

Save yourself some trouble. Order them with the rest of your
(operable) windows, from the same mfg.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

I am sorry. I have not explained myself well. I have ordered fixed
light windows with the cavity and perimeter sealing. What I am asking
for is for help in installing them in the framed opening. What is
the best way to install the cedar trim in the frame and how do you
mount the window in the trim? I am beginning to see that there are
a number of ways where you can install cedar trim on the outside of
the framed opening and then insert and seal the window to the trim. I
think I am getting the right kind of windows. I just want the method
or installation. Thanks for any help.


On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 21:48:19 GMT, (v) wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:00:05 GMT, someone wrote:

We are building a cedar home and will be using cut glass(double panes
with a dark spacer) windows mounted in cedar in several areas. These
windows will not have any kind of trim, will be cut to fit our
specific openigs, will be stationary and won't open. They will be
mounted between some kind of cedar trim pieces and sealed with some
kind of silicone seal.

Why are you reinventing the wheel? Trying to save a dollar ninety
eight and just asking for trouble, cheaping out on your custom home?
There are "fixed light" windows readily available in custom sizes,
with the cavity sealed (and filled with inert gas if you like) and all
the perimeter sealing already done. Installed just like any other
window, just doeasn't open. (Techically called "fixed lights".)

My cedar sided (only sided) house (aside: what's the diff between
building a "cedar house" and a "cedar home"? marketing?) has some
fixed windows that perfectly match the operable windows, as they came
from the same window manufacturer. Just because they won't open,
isn't necessarily a good enough reason to try and build them yourself.

Save yourself some trouble. Order them with the rest of your
(operable) windows, from the same mfg.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.

John, thanks for the reply. So you simply place the glass in the
framed opening and trim it on the inside and outside? That means
that, if the seal between the outside trim and the window is not
perfect, water will get into and be trapped on the frame. What about
dry rot? How do you know if this is occurring if the water is trapped
and sitting on the frame material?

This is exactly the technique being suggested by my friend who is
actually building my house. I have seen other situations where a
framed 2x4 window like this is first trimmed with a 1x6(with about 1"
sticking out on both sides. Then the window is set in the opening and
a 1"x1" or 2"x1" strip is trimmed on the inside and out to hold the
glass. Using this system a leak will not get on the underlying frame.


I like the system you described but how do you insure you don't have
water leaking into the frame? Do you go back and run a bead of
silicone around the trim and glass juncture on the outside to make
sure there is no leakage.

Like you described, we are going to have spacers/shims to center the
window against the trimmed opening. It leaves a small 1/8" - 1/4" gap
all around. My friend is thinking about filling this space with butyl
rubber but I have heard that it may attack the spacer in the insulated
unit. You commented that even silicone rubber might attack the
insulated unit. What do you think of backfilling the space with the
butyl rubber?

Thanks again for your detailed and helpful reply. Jack


On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 05:05:23 GMT, "John‰]*
************************************************** *************"
wrote:


Frame the inside of the opening with your choice of trim. You can use
1X2 cedar, 1/4 round, cove moulding, or whatever suits your fancy. 1X2
is the easiest since you don't have to miter the corners. You can
miter them if you wish, but the only person who will notice is you.

Now cut the outside trim in the same fashion. It should fit tightly
with no gaps. You should have at least the top and bottom trim pieces
cut and fitted in advance before you start setting the glass.

Cut two 12 inch pieces of 2X4 and place them on the ground in front of
the opening. Run a bead of clear siliconized acrylic caulk around the
center of the inside trim; if there are any gaps, go back and fill
them. Do not use pure silicone caulk as it sometimes attacks the
sealant used in insulated units. Put your top and bottom trim pieces
with easy reach and start two nails in each if you wish. WEAR HEAVY
GLOVES. Get an insulated unit and carefully set it down on the 2X4s in
front of the opening. Take a deep breath, pick up the glass and set it
in the opening. Grab the top trim piece, tack it in place and the unit
will stay. Add the remaining trim. If you are shy about nailing next
to the glass use deck screws and a screwgun. Try not to angle any
screws into the glass as that will ruin your day. Be sure you predrill
and countersink the end screws because cedar splits easily. Once the
trim is installed, run a thin bead of clear caulk between the glass and
the trim and another between the trim and the opening, then
congratulate yourself on another job well done.

A couple of tips; There is a 100% chance that one or more of your
openings will not be square. Cut some "chips" of 1/4" plywood about an
inch wide by whatever thickness your insulated units are, usually 5/8
or 3/4. If you run into a crooked opening just set a chip under the
unit on one side or the other to square it up in the crooked opening.
Ideally you want a 1/4" gap all the way around to allow for
expansion/contraction. Second, if the caulk oozes out on the inside or
if you screw it up on the outside, walk away from it; Putting your
fingers in it will only make it worse. Once it dries you can trim it
off with a razor blade and do it over.

As you may have noticed, I've done this a couple of hundred times. I
just bought a house with a great room off the kitchen that has a wall
of glass. It has eight 34X76 patio door units across the back wall
with eight 34Xsomethingorother trapezoids in a second tier and a
diamond shaped window at the peak of what is probably a twenty foot
ceiling. When we first looked at the house I thought it looked
familiar, and it finally dawned on me that I installed all that glass
some ten years ago while working for a retail glass company. Since the
glass still looked great and I knew what I top notch professional job I
had done installing it, I bought the house.


As you can tell from the above, this ain't rocket science. Take your
time, use your head and it will turn out fine.

John




In article ,
wrote:

I am sorry. I have not explained myself well. I have ordered fixed
light windows with the cavity and perimeter sealing. What I am asking
for is for help in installing them in the framed opening. What is
the best way to install the cedar trim in the frame and how do you
mount the window in the trim? I am beginning to see that there are
a number of ways where you can install cedar trim on the outside of
the framed opening and then insert and seal the window to the trim. I
think I am getting the right kind of windows. I just want the method
or installation. Thanks for any help.


On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 21:48:19 GMT, (v) wrote:

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 16:00:05 GMT, someone wrote:

We are building a cedar home and will be using cut glass(double panes
with a dark spacer) windows mounted in cedar in several areas. These
windows will not have any kind of trim, will be cut to fit our
specific openigs, will be stationary and won't open. They will be
mounted between some kind of cedar trim pieces and sealed with some
kind of silicone seal.

Why are you reinventing the wheel? Trying to save a dollar ninety
eight and just asking for trouble, cheaping out on your custom home?
There are "fixed light" windows readily available in custom sizes,
with the cavity sealed (and filled with inert gas if you like) and all
the perimeter sealing already done. Installed just like any other
window, just doeasn't open. (Techically called "fixed lights".)

My cedar sided (only sided) house (aside: what's the diff between
building a "cedar house" and a "cedar home"? marketing?) has some
fixed windows that perfectly match the operable windows, as they came
from the same window manufacturer. Just because they won't open,
isn't necessarily a good enough reason to try and build them yourself.

Save yourself some trouble. Order them with the rest of your
(operable) windows, from the same mfg.


Reply to NG only - this e.mail address goes to a kill file.