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#1
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service
120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. It probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. |
#2
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Posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.design
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![]() Jon wrote: service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. It probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. R.I.P. Moron. -- Greed is the root of all eBay. |
#3
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Posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.design
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Jon wrote: service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. It probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. R.I.P. Moron. More likely this post can be used to show that he killed a linesman deliberately after having been warned publicly that what he proposed was dangerously unsafe and against all installation codes. It is no longer accidental manslaughter when the danger has been clearly explained. It isn't like he doesn't understand. Definitely headed for a Darwin award. Pity he will take out some poor linesman out in the process. Regards, Martin Brown |
#4
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:25:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Jon wrote: ... All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. R.I.P. Moron. Unfortunately the only person who will be RIP will be someone other than the moron who posted this thread. |
#5
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Posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.design
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![]() PeterD wrote: On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:25:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Jon wrote: ... All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. R.I.P. Moron. Unfortunately the only person who will be RIP will be someone other than the moron who posted this thread. His IP resolves to: Middleburg, Virginia. Maybe the local authorities would like to hear about his plans? IP Information - 4.248.254.21 IP address: 4.248.254.21 Reverse DNS: dialup-4.248.254.21.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net. Reverse DNS authenticity: [Verified] ASN: 3356 ASN Name: Level3 (Level 3 Communications) IP range connectivity: 2 Registrar (per ASN): RIPE Country (per IP registrar): US [United States] Country Currency: USD [United States Dollars] Country IP Range: 4.0.0.0 to 4.255.255.255 Country fraud profile: Normal City (per outside source): Middleburg, Virginia Country (per outside source): US [United States] Private (internal) IP? No IP address registrar: whois.arin.net Known Proxy? No Link for WHOIS: 4.248.254.21 http://www.middleburg.org/dept.htm -- Greed is the root of all eBay. |
#6
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Posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.design
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:28:11 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: PeterD wrote: On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:25:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Jon wrote: ... All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. R.I.P. Moron. Unfortunately the only person who will be RIP will be someone other than the moron who posted this thread. His IP resolves to: Middleburg, Virginia. Maybe the local authorities would like to hear about his plans? IP Information - 4.248.254.21 IP address: 4.248.254.21 Reverse DNS: dialup-4.248.254.21.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net. Reverse DNS authenticity: [Verified] ASN: 3356 ASN Name: Level3 (Level 3 Communications) IP range connectivity: 2 Registrar (per ASN): RIPE Country (per IP registrar): US [United States] Country Currency: USD [United States Dollars] Country IP Range: 4.0.0.0 to 4.255.255.255 Country fraud profile: Normal City (per outside source): Middleburg, Virginia Country (per outside source): US [United States] Private (internal) IP? No IP address registrar: whois.arin.net Known Proxy? No Link for WHOIS: 4.248.254.21 http://www.middleburg.org/dept.htm Michael, Can't you just forward this whole thread to Middleburg, and let them draw their own conclusions ?:-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice ![]() | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#7
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Posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.design
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![]() Jim Thompson wrote: On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 19:28:11 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: PeterD wrote: On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 01:25:26 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Jon wrote: ... All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. R.I.P. Moron. Unfortunately the only person who will be RIP will be someone other than the moron who posted this thread. His IP resolves to: Middleburg, Virginia. Maybe the local authorities would like to hear about his plans? IP Information - 4.248.254.21 IP address: 4.248.254.21 Reverse DNS: dialup-4.248.254.21.Dial1.Washington2.Level3.net. Reverse DNS authenticity: [Verified] ASN: 3356 ASN Name: Level3 (Level 3 Communications) IP range connectivity: 2 Registrar (per ASN): RIPE Country (per IP registrar): US [United States] Country Currency: USD [United States Dollars] Country IP Range: 4.0.0.0 to 4.255.255.255 Country fraud profile: Normal City (per outside source): Middleburg, Virginia Country (per outside source): US [United States] Private (internal) IP? No IP address registrar: whois.arin.net Known Proxy? No Link for WHOIS: 4.248.254.21 http://www.middleburg.org/dept.htm Michael, Can't you just forward this whole thread to Middleburg, and let them draw their own conclusions ?:-) I would prefer that someone in that area make the report so it would get more attention. -- Greed is the root of all eBay. |
#8
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Posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.design
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Jon
wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 02:45 service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, "your needs?" but not the needs of others? How selfish. I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. You really are both stupid and stubborn. All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. It probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. You cretin. What if the lose of your utility supply is due to your incoming wire having dropped off the pole? You won't be connected to the local network, but your wire in the street is now live. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. I'm glad you don't live anywhere near me. -- Tim Watts Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer. |
#9
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 09:30:16 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
Jon wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 02:45 service This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, "your needs?" but not the needs of others? How selfish. I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. You really are both stupid and stubborn. All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be ... You cretin. What if the lose of your utility supply is due to your incoming wire having dropped off the pole? You won't be connected to the local network, but your wire in the street is now live. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. I'm glad you don't live anywhere near me. If only we could confirm he does not live near any of us. His IP is MIDDLEBURG Virginia, but that may be forged or hacked. |
#10
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon"
wrote: service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, Work? Not likely. Safely? Never. I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. And screw any innocent people, and utility workers who get hurt because you are stupid. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear? All we hear is an idiot who cares for no one else but himself and his pocket book. It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. As Phil would put it: "You are a clueless ******." It probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. Do it properly. Use a proper transfer switch. But you don't care about anyone but yourself. |
#11
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon" wrote:
service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. --- Then you're either a bull-headed idiot or a troll. --- All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. --- That's not true. --- * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. --- I'm sure the breaker on the generator is rated to trip some time after the current _out_ of the generator exceeds some level. All bets are off when the generator is run like a sink. --- I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. It probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. --- If the voltage that gets to the lineman won't make it to above a volt, then that'll be your generator output voltage, which means your scheme won't work. --- I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. --- Nonsense. Where does it say that just because we know how to do something we should share it with someone who appears to be irresponsible? JF |
#12
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:13:46 -0600, John Fields
wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon" wrote: service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. --- Then you're either a bull-headed idiot or a troll. --- All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. --- That's not true. --- * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. --- I'm sure the breaker on the generator is rated to trip some time after the current _out_ of the generator exceeds some level. All bets are off when the generator is run like a sink. --- I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. It probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. --- If the voltage that gets to the lineman won't make it to above a volt, then that'll be your generator output voltage, which means your scheme won't work. --- I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. --- Nonsense. Where does it say that just because we know how to do something we should share it with someone who appears to be irresponsible? JF Don't knock natural selection... it's 100% effective ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice ![]() | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#13
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Jim Thompson
wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 17:19 Don't knock natural selection... it's 100% effective ;-) ...Jim Thompson That would be valid if the fool was only at risk of killing himself. I'm all for a man doing as he pleases on his own land (the UK is bogged down by regulations - you need Building Control to change a window here!). But what Comrade Jerkov here keeps failing to see is the effect he may have on someone not on his land. Despite being told, politely, then in no uncertain terms. -- Tim Watts Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer. |
#14
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On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 17:34:28 +0000, Tim Watts wrote:
Jim Thompson wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 17:19 Don't knock natural selection... it's 100% effective ;-) ...Jim Thompson That would be valid if the fool was only at risk of killing himself. I'm all for a man doing as he pleases on his own land (the UK is bogged down by regulations - you need Building Control to change a window here!). But what Comrade Jerkov here keeps failing to see is the effect he may have on someone not on his land. Despite being told, politely, then in no uncertain terms. Haven't been paying close attention... do we know where he is? Simply send copies of his posts to the local building code authorities ;-) ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO | mens | | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et | | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus | | Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | | | Voice ![]() | E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 | I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food. |
#15
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Jim Thompson
wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 19:11 On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 17:34:28 +0000, Tim Watts wrote: Jim Thompson wibbled on Monday 01 March 2010 17:19 Don't knock natural selection... it's 100% effective ;-) ...Jim Thompson That would be valid if the fool was only at risk of killing himself. I'm all for a man doing as he pleases on his own land (the UK is bogged down by regulations - you need Building Control to change a window here!). But what Comrade Jerkov here keeps failing to see is the effect he may have on someone not on his land. Despite being told, politely, then in no uncertain terms. Haven't been paying close attention... do we know where he is? Someone took a guess by the posting IP. Simply send copies of his posts to the local building code authorities ;-) And the leccy company. Dunno about you all, but over here, this would probably be grounds for using emergency access powers, without warrant, by a supply engineer (with police escort) and forced disconnection of supply. ...Jim Thompson -- Tim Watts Managers, politicians and environmentalists: Nature's carbon buffer. |
#16
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On Mar 1, 12:19*pm, Jim Thompson To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-
Web-Site.com wrote: On Mon, 01 Mar 2010 10:13:46 -0600, John Fields wrote: On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon" wrote: * * * service 120vac * * * *120vac * * * signal *o * * * * * * o * * * * * *o *| * * * * * * | * * * * * *| *o * * * * * * o------------* * \ * main * * *\ * * * * * | *o * * * * * * o * * * * * *| *| * * * * * * | * * * * * *| *| * *house * *| * * * * * *| *| * * * * * * | * * * * * *| *| * * * * * * | * * * * * *| *| * *barn * * | * * * * *(COIL) --- * * * * * --- * * * * * | * * * generator ignition -/- N.C. * * *-/- N.C.. * * | * * * * * * * o *| * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * * * * * * * | *o generator * o * * * * * *| * * * * * * *--- * * * * * * * * * * * * * *--- * * * * * * --- N.O. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * *gnd * * * * * * *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *--- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. --- Then you're either a bull-headed idiot or a troll. --- All I care about is protecting the generator. *The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. --- That's not true. --- * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. *The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. *If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. --- I'm sure the breaker on the generator is rated to trip some time after the current _out_ of the generator exceeds some level. * All bets are off when the generator is run like a sink. --- I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. *Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. *By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. *It probably won't make it above 1 volt. *The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. --- If the voltage that gets to the lineman won't make it to above a volt, then that'll be your generator output voltage, which means your scheme won't work. --- I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. *However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. --- Nonsense. Where does it say that just because we know how to do something we should share it with someone who appears to be irresponsible? JF Don't knock natural selection... it's 100% effective ;-) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ...Jim Thompson -- | James E.Thompson, CTO * * * * * * * * * * * * * *| * *mens * * | | Analog Innovations, Inc. * * * * * * * * * * * * | * * et * * *| | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems *| * *manus * *| | Phoenix, Arizona *85048 * *Skype: Contacts Only *| * * * * * * | | Voice ![]() | E-mail Icon athttp://www.analog-innovations.com| * *1962 * * | I love to cook with wine. * * Sometimes I even put it in the food.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - How did you get here then? Sorry, just kidding. Couldn't resist! But all you have to do is look around and you (esp. the government, or TSA) and you know your statement can't possibly be true!! -mpm |
#17
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon"
wrote: service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. No, this will not work. When the external power goes out, the relay will be de-energised, causing the generator to start, and to be connected to your loads, and to the outside power distribution system, and to your control relay, which will promptly turn off the generator. More likely, other loads on the outside distribution system will overload the generator, either causing it to stall, or tripping its output breaker. The generator will energise the outside distribution system, at least briefly, potentially causing electrocution hazards to others. snip I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. Read, understand, and follow the NEC's requirements for standby generator wiring. There are two safe, legal, ways to do this. One is to use an approved automatic transfer switch. The other is to use two mechanically-interlocked switches or breakers arranged so that either commercial power or your generator (but never both) can feed your house and barn. The latter system, of course requires manual operation when switching to or from the generator. -- Peter Bennett, VE7CEI peterbb4 (at) interchange.ubc.ca GPS and NMEA info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter Vancouver Power Squadron: http://vancouver.powersquadron.ca |
#18
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Posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.design
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon"
wrote: service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. I agree with Peter Bennett on this, it will not work, there's no way to seperate your "signal" from your feed line, as soon as the genertor puts out voltage (assuming, as Peter says, it doesn't get loaded down by your neighbours) the relay will pull in again shutting your generator off. By the way, simply energising the igniton doesn't mean it will start, for that you need a starter contactor, a timer to run it & a whole bunch of other stuff to handle "won't start" situations. By the way, are youe *sure8 that fourth wire isn't there as a ground? or a neutral? All I care about is protecting the generator. a) this is clearly criminaly negligent & b) actually this is pretty ggod way to to fry your generator, and all your appliances- see below. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. What happens when the coil burns out? * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. With your design leaving the swith on or off is immaterial to powering the house. thats assuming you arn't trying to power the whole meighbourhood, see below. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. The last time I'm aware of a genset feeding a building load at the same time as mains came in it blew every fuse in the building. Since it was my boss who did it everyone though it was hilariously funny except for upper managment who were understandably perturbed that a cross country (& trans atlantic) telecommunications relay system was down flat for 2 hours while a suitable number of new fuses were found & installed. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, If you can't afford one of these http://shop.ebay.ca/?_from=R40&_trks...All-Categories then you can't afford fuel for your genset anyhow. and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. If you beleive that than your understanding of basic eletricity is sorely lacking. If your genset is isn't so loaded down by the neighborhood load that it stalls out or the breaker pops (assumiong the genset has a breaker) then it's putting out lethal voltages into the primary lines. sure, you say you''ll turn off the main breaker to isolate yourself from the grid but what happens if you arn't at home? What iff you arn't at home & the power is down beacuse linemen are working on the primaries and now your genset is backfeeding them? Are you really so callous about endangering the lives of the linemen? probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. Scared? Nobody in this thread has come across as scared, just knowledgable are responsible. I'm no big fan of over-regulation & the resultant inspector burocracy but it's a sad fact that if it wern't for people doing stupid things (yes, like you're- against *ALL* good advice thats been given- about to) we wouldn't have most of the rules we do have. I've done some truly, remarkably, stupid things in my life, sometimes against all good advice. Take it from a pro, you're heading down the wrong road on this. H. |
#19
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Posted to alt.electronics,sci.electronics.design
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On Sun, 28 Feb 2010 21:45:13 -0500, "Jon" wrote:
service 120vac 120vac signal o o o | | | o o------------* \ main \ | o o | | | | | house | | | | | | | | | barn | (COIL) --- --- | generator ignition -/- N.C. -/- N.C.. | o | | | | o generator o | --- --- --- N.O. - | gnd | --- - chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. You have been told the right way several times. You did not read what you need to know. This has safety and operational issues that you are willfully ignoring. Your design will not work, and it may kill people including your own family members. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. The generator will still be ok. No it won't!! Your generator will them be tasked with powering up all of your neighbors, perhaps for many miles until that main is manually switched. And 10 kW ain't nearly enough to power all your neighbors, then the genset dies, perhaps with gouts of flame. Get the picture? Get a pro to install an Automatic Bus Transfer Switch (ABT) and an automatic generator starter circuit. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. No it won't as described above. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. Did any of you hear? Wannabe. It is neither effective nor workable. It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. Depends on how close the lineman is. It probably won't make it above 1 volt. The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. And that means there won't be any left for you without the transfer switch. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. Like Hell! You do not understand what it has to say about emergency power systems. However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. They have been giving you better ideas, you just do not want to use them. I do know, it is part of what they test for when you take the PE examination for electrical engineers. I have had my license for 15 years. And i do know what i am talking about. |
#20
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On Feb 28, 9:45*pm, "Jon" wrote:
* * * *service 120vac * * * *120vac * * * signal * o * * * * * * o * * * * * *o * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * o * * * * * * o------------* * *\ * main * * *\ * * * * * | * o * * * * * * o * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * *house * *| * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * *barn * * | * * * * *(COIL) *--- * * * * * --- * * * * * | * * * generator ignition *-/- N.C. * * *-/- N.C.. * * | * * * * * * * o * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * * * * * * * | * o generator * o * * * * * *| * * * * * * *--- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * * * * * * --- N.O. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * gnd * * * * * * *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. *The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid.. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. *The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. *If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. *Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. *By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. *It probably won't make it above 1 volt. *The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. *However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. You've obviously never seen electric disconnects fused together, have you? Tell you what, you hold this wire, and I'll go down the street and fire up my generator. We'll assume the utility is off for this discussion. |
#21
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On Feb 28, 9:45*pm, "Jon" wrote:
* * * *service 120vac * * * *120vac * * * signal * o * * * * * * o * * * * * *o * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * o * * * * * * o------------* * *\ * main * * *\ * * * * * | * o * * * * * * o * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * *house * *| * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * *barn * * | * * * * *(COIL) *--- * * * * * --- * * * * * | * * * generator ignition *-/- N.C. * * *-/- N.C.. * * | * * * * * * * o * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * * * * * * * | * o generator * o * * * * * *| * * * * * * *--- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * * * * * * --- N.O. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * gnd * * * * * * *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. *The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid.. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. *The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. *If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. *Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. *By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. *It probably won't make it above 1 volt. *The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. *However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. Respectfully, if the generator cared about itself, it would let you anywhere near it! |
#22
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On Mar 3, 6:22*pm, mpm wrote:
On Feb 28, 9:45*pm, "Jon" wrote: * * * *service 120vac * * * *120vac * * * signal * o * * * * * * o * * * * * *o * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * o * * * * * * o------------* * *\ * main * * *\ * * * * * | * o * * * * * * o * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * *house * *| * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * *barn * * | * * * * *(COIL) *--- * * * * * --- * * * * * | * * * generator ignition *-/- N.C. * * *-/- N.C.. * * | * * * * * * * o * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * * * * * * * | * o generator * o * * * * * *| * * * * * * *--- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * * * * * * --- N.O. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * gnd * * * * * * *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. *The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. *The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. *If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. *Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. *By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. *It probably won't make it above 1 volt. *The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. *However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. Respectfully, if the generator cared about itself, it would let you anywhere near it!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - OK - let's try this again --- Respectfully, if the generator cared about itself, it WOULDN'T let you anywhere near it! I've noticed lately, that my typing make very simple mistakes like that. So, either I'm going bonkers, or this keyboard is complete ****, or some background process is deliberately changing what I type. It's been happening for about 2 or 3 months now (that I can detect). I type very fast, and am not in the habit of proofing everything I write online. But I guess I'll have to start, now. Or go get a brainscan. This sort of stuff really ****es me off. |
#23
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On Wed, 3 Mar 2010 15:31:10 -0800 (PST), mpm
wrote: On Mar 3, 6:22*pm, mpm wrote: On Feb 28, 9:45*pm, "Jon" wrote: * * * *service 120vac * * * *120vac * * * signal * o * * * * * * o * * * * * *o * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * o * * * * * * o------------* * *\ * main * * *\ * * * * * | * o * * * * * * o * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * *house * *| * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * | * *barn * * | * * * * *(COIL) *--- * * * * * --- * * * * * | * * * generator ignition *-/- N.C. * * *-/- N.C.. * * | * * * * * * * o * | * * * * * * | * * * * * *| * * * * * * * | * o generator * o * * * * * *| * * * * * * *--- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * * * * * * --- N.O. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- * * * * * * * | * * * * * * * * * * * * * * gnd * * * * * * *| * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * --- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *- * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * chassis This is my design, it *will* work, I ordered the parts, it meets my needs, I ordered the parts and it's what I'm going to do. All I care about is protecting the generator. *The coil has to be energized 24/7 to do it, but there's no other way. * if the generator isn't feeding power to the house and barn, it means we forgot to turn off the main switch and we are feeding power into the grid. To remedy this we can turn off the main switch. *The generator will still be ok. * if the power goes on it will cut the generator ignition and open the feed contacts. *If the main switch is off anyway, this won't harm the generator. If the power goes on, the main switch is on and the generator is on, there will be a time delay for the relay to disconnect, but any problems will throw the breaker in the barn for the generator, and the generator will still be ok. I'm not digging and running wires, I'm not paying the transfer box sharks, and I'm doing this effectively, simply and easily. *Did any of you hear? It's the end of the world and we have to do with what we've got. *By the time 10 kw reaches any lineman, it will be too diluted to do any harm. *It probably won't make it above 1 volt. *The current will be sunk into the consumer grid abyss. I'm familiar with the N.E.C. and I've used it before. *However my resources are limited, everybody is too scared to give me any better ideas or they just don't know. Respectfully, if the generator cared about itself, it would let you anywhere near it!- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - OK - let's try this again --- Respectfully, if the generator cared about itself, it WOULDN'T let you anywhere near it! I've noticed lately, that my typing make very simple mistakes like that. So, either I'm going bonkers, or this keyboard is complete ****, or some background process is deliberately changing what I type. It's been happening for about 2 or 3 months now (that I can detect). I type very fast, and am not in the habit of proofing everything I write online. But I guess I'll have to start, now. Or go get a brainscan. This sort of stuff really ****es me off. Look as best I can see, your first version was the correct one. Even the generator wants to kill him off before he kills someone else! |
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