First off - thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. I finally
found my papers from when we bought the house and got ahold of the man
who did the inspection. He's very knowledgable about this stuff and he
assures me that if I do what I planned on doing - the attic will drop
in temperature. This will in turn will allow the heat pump to work
better since it's ductwork is in the attic. The end result will be a
more comfortable bonus room, a heat pump that does not run as much, and
if I'm lucky, an attic that's cool enough so I can use it to store more
then just 'hardy' stuff. His reasoning is the R-factor of the ductwork
insulation, and the differential between the outside air temp and the
attic air temp. He went off on a bunch of stuff about BTUs, and such,
which I didn't understand, but since he was helping me for free, I was
polite and let him go.

to recap - I have 8 or so static vents on a tall peaked roof, that
offer little help in moving the HOT air out of my attic, so I'm
planning on replacing 2 of them with powered vents. there is a small
heat pump in the attic which serves the ajoining bonus room, which is
over the garage.
Right now, the bonus room is always warm and the heat pump comes on
very frequently, runs for 5 minutes, cools the bonus room down
somewhat, then shuts off, only to come back on again in another 10
minutes or so.

His only cautions we
a) make sure the soffitt vents are clear (easy to tell by turning out
the attic light and look for daylight).
b) cover up all the remaining static vents except for one or two - the
furthest away from the power vents I install.

I have a contractor coming next week to do the work and will report
back the results - hopfully GOOD results. Yesterday the temp reached
112 degrees F in the attic.

thanks again,
steve

Steve Kulpa wrote:
First off - thanks to all for the comments and suggestions. I finally
found my papers from when we bought the house and got ahold of the man
who did the inspection. He's very knowledgable about this stuff and he
assures me that if I do what I planned on doing - the attic will drop
in temperature. This will in turn will allow the heat pump to work
better since it's ductwork is in the attic. The end result will be a
more comfortable bonus room, a heat pump that does not run as much, and
if I'm lucky, an attic that's cool enough so I can use it to store more
then just 'hardy' stuff. His reasoning is the R-factor of the ductwork
insulation, and the differential between the outside air temp and the
attic air temp. He went off on a bunch of stuff about BTUs, and such,
which I didn't understand, but since he was helping me for free, I was
polite and let him go.

to recap - I have 8 or so static vents on a tall peaked roof, that
offer little help in moving the HOT air out of my attic, so I'm
planning on replacing 2 of them with powered vents. there is a small
heat pump in the attic which serves the ajoining bonus room, which is
over the garage.
Right now, the bonus room is always warm and the heat pump comes on
very frequently, runs for 5 minutes, cools the bonus room down
somewhat, then shuts off, only to come back on again in another 10
minutes or so.

His only cautions we
a) make sure the soffitt vents are clear (easy to tell by turning out
the attic light and look for daylight).
b) cover up all the remaining static vents except for one or two - the
furthest away from the power vents I install.

I have a contractor coming next week to do the work and will report
back the results - hopfully GOOD results. Yesterday the temp reached
112 degrees F in the attic.

thanks again,
steve


112 degrees in a properly ventilated attic is not unusual at all. I
don't know what your expectations are, but you may be disappointed.

Steve Kulpa wrote:.
I have a contractor coming next week to do the work and will report
back the results - hopfully GOOD results. Yesterday the temp reached
112 degrees F in the attic.

For what it is worth the unbiased studies on powered vents all say that
for homes with adequate ceiling insulation the power ventilator will use
more electricity than it will save in reduced cooling costs. OTOH you
can cool the attic somewhat which may have other benefits.

http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/ventilation.htm

If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling

steve

Travis Jordan wrote:
Steve Kulpa wrote:.
I have a contractor coming next week to do the work and will report
back the results - hopfully GOOD results. Yesterday the temp reached
112 degrees F in the attic.

For what it is worth the unbiased studies on powered vents all say that
for homes with adequate ceiling insulation the power ventilator will use
more electricity than it will save in reduced cooling costs. OTOH you
can cool the attic somewhat which may have other benefits.

http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/ventilation.htm

That may be true, and would be fine with me, if:
a) it wasn't ajacent to the bonus room, which it heats up
b) there wasn't a heat pump in there, with all the duct work
c) I didn't need some storage place.

I'm disappointed now, so hopfully it won't get worse! :-)

steve

wrote:

112 degrees in a properly ventilated attic is not unusual at all. I
don't know what your expectations are, but you may be disappointed.

Steve Kulpa wrote:
If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling

steve

Travis Jordan wrote:
Steve Kulpa wrote:.
I have a contractor coming next week to do the work and will report
back the results - hopfully GOOD results. Yesterday the temp reached
112 degrees F in the attic.

For what it is worth the unbiased studies on powered vents all say that
for homes with adequate ceiling insulation the power ventilator will use
more electricity than it will save in reduced cooling costs. OTOH you
can cool the attic somewhat which may have other benefits.

http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/ventilation.htm

I think he has a EXCELLENT plan. Inside attic temp is largely dependent
on outside temp. I was told a properly vented attic shouldnt be more
than 15 degrees above outside temp, that from a home inspector...

keeping the heat pump cooler is certinally a excellent idea

Thanks! That's pretty much what the inspector I talked to said too.

steve

wrote:

I think he has a EXCELLENT plan. Inside attic temp is largely dependent
on outside temp. I was told a properly vented attic shouldnt be more
than 15 degrees above outside temp, that from a home inspector...

keeping the heat pump cooler is certinally a excellent idea

wrote in message
ups.com...

Steve Kulpa wrote:
If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling

steve

Travis Jordan wrote:
Steve Kulpa wrote:.
I have a contractor coming next week to do the work and will report
back the results - hopfully GOOD results. Yesterday the temp reached
112 degrees F in the attic.

For what it is worth the unbiased studies on powered vents all say that
for homes with adequate ceiling insulation the power ventilator will
use
more electricity than it will save in reduced cooling costs. OTOH you
can cool the attic somewhat which may have other benefits.

http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/ventilation.htm

I think he has a EXCELLENT plan. Inside attic temp is largely dependent
on outside temp. I was told a properly vented attic shouldnt be more
than 15 degrees above outside temp, that from a home inspector...

keeping the heat pump cooler is certinally a excellent idea


Temp difference is exactly what you need to look at to see if you are
successful, the actual temp is obviously dependent on the weather and time
of day.

PipeDown wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...

Steve Kulpa wrote:
If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling

steve

Travis Jordan wrote:
Steve Kulpa wrote:.
I have a contractor coming next week to do the work and will report
back the results - hopfully GOOD results. Yesterday the temp reached
112 degrees F in the attic.

For what it is worth the unbiased studies on powered vents all say that
for homes with adequate ceiling insulation the power ventilator will
use
more electricity than it will save in reduced cooling costs. OTOH you
can cool the attic somewhat which may have other benefits.

http://www.factsfacts.com/MyHomeRepair/ventilation.htm

I think he has a EXCELLENT plan. Inside attic temp is largely dependent
on outside temp. I was told a properly vented attic shouldnt be more
than 15 degrees above outside temp, that from a home inspector...

keeping the heat pump cooler is certinally a excellent idea


Temp difference is exactly what you need to look at to see if you are
successful, the actual temp is obviously dependent on the weather and time
of day.

wrote:
I was told a properly vented attic
shouldnt be more than 15 degrees above outside temp, that from a home
inspector...

With a white tile roof and a radiant heat barrier, maybe.

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/Bldg/pubs/pf337/index.htm

Travis Jordan wrote:
wrote:
I was told a properly vented attic
shouldnt be more than 15 degrees above outside temp, that from a home
inspector...

With a white tile roof and a radiant heat barrier, maybe.

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/Bldg/pubs/pf337/index.htm

Nice reference.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote:
...

I think he has a EXCELLENT plan. Inside attic temp is largely
dependent on outside temp. I was told a properly vented attic
shouldnt be more than 15 degrees above outside temp, that from a home
inspector...

keeping the heat pump cooler is certinally a excellent idea

15 degrees difference is very little in some areas. A lot of what
really is needed and what works and what is normal is area specific.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Steve Kulpa wrote:
If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling

And keep it that way. Insulating under the roof will raise the
temperature of the roof to the point it may become damaged. At least that
is true for many areas and roofing types.


steve



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Steve Kulpa wrote:
If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling

steve

Travis Jordan wrote:

Sorry I missed the first statement. It may not be a good payoff if the
cost of running the fans is greater than that of running the heat pump.

Extra note about the heat pump. Since it runs for, I believe you said
five minutes and then shuts off and you are not getting sufficient cooling
in the room(s) it services, it sounds like you have an unrelated problem
with the heat pump or the controls for it.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Extra note about the heat pump. Since it runs for, I believe you
said five minutes and then shuts off and you are not getting
sufficient cooling in the room(s) it services, it sounds like you
have an unrelated problem with the heat pump or the controls for it.

Certainly true. For the OP: is the heat pump (I mean, air conditioner)
shutting off before the thermostat set point is reached? If so, you've
got some other problem.

Powered vents, 2? Unless you know how the house is built and how to run
the numbers you could Increase the load on the AC by sucking house
cooled air through the attic. With 2 units and your inspectors [
calculations ] you probably will. Your attic is not that hot, a properly
designed and operating AC does this for millions of people. Get your AC
checked first.

Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead - the heatpump seems to be working just
fine. It comes on, air that's cooler then the room comes out of the
vent, it runs for a while (sorry, I was just guessing at the time), the
room cools down, it shuts off. Then the room warms back up again
(quicker than I'd like) and it starts all over.

The guy I talked too said since the duct work is in the attic too,
based on it's insulation R-Factor, the heat pump is working extra hard
cooling down the air from the return, which has warmed up some on it's
way to the exchanger thanks to the hot attic. By lowering the
temperature in the attic, even if it's a small amount, the return air
will cool down too, and the heat pump will be able to do it's job
easier. Plus lowering the temperature in the attic will help keep the
bonus room cooler longer after the heat pump turns off, which means it
won't come back on as quickly.

On a side note, the bonus room sits over the garage. It too was very
hot during the day, but thankfully it has 2 windows. I placed a window
fan in one window, and opened the other half way. Big difference in
the garage, which should have reduced the heat in the bonus room too,
albiet slightly, but every degree helps.

steve

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Extra note about the heat pump. Since it runs for, I believe you said
five minutes and then shuts off and you are not getting sufficient cooling
in the room(s) it services, it sounds like you have an unrelated problem
with the heat pump or the controls for it.

--
Joseph Meehan

Travis Jordan wrote:
wrote:
I was told a properly vented attic
shouldnt be more than 15 degrees above outside temp, that from a home
inspector...

With a white tile roof and a radiant heat barrier, maybe.

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/Bldg/pubs/pf337/index.htm

Amen to that. Thanks to advice from another poster here, I was
adjusting the shutoff temp on my powered roof vent the other day, and
on a sunny day with the outside temp maybe 80 degrees, it didn't
shutoff when i finally left it set at 120 degrees. This is after it had
had the fan running all day, mind you. And in New England, not Texas or
AZ or somewhere.

I wouldn't bother with the attic vents. The temperature in the attic
you mentioned doesn't seem that high at all. The heat pump sounds like
it is working fine.

The problem you mentioned is that the bonus room heats up to quickly,
causing the heat pump to come on again sooner than you would like.

It sounds like the real problem is heat gain in the bonus room. Can
you find some ways to address that? Is there insulation below the
bonus room but above the garage ceiling? Are the walls & ceiling of
the bonus room insulated? Are there windows in the bonus room that
could benefit from blinds or window tint?

Insulation can be blown under the floor, into the walls and above the
room if you discover that it was somehow left out during
construction....

Where do you live? Does it get cold there during the winter? Do you
have problems with the heat pump running a lot to heat this room during
the winter?

I would guess you are not in the frozen north if you have a heat pump.


Steve Kulpa wrote:
Sorry, I didn't mean to mislead - the heatpump seems to be working just
fine. It comes on, air that's cooler then the room comes out of the
vent, it runs for a while (sorry, I was just guessing at the time), the
room cools down, it shuts off. Then the room warms back up again
(quicker than I'd like) and it starts all over.

The guy I talked too said since the duct work is in the attic too,
based on it's insulation R-Factor, the heat pump is working extra hard
cooling down the air from the return, which has warmed up some on it's
way to the exchanger thanks to the hot attic. By lowering the
temperature in the attic, even if it's a small amount, the return air
will cool down too, and the heat pump will be able to do it's job
easier. Plus lowering the temperature in the attic will help keep the
bonus room cooler longer after the heat pump turns off, which means it
won't come back on as quickly.

On a side note, the bonus room sits over the garage. It too was very
hot during the day, but thankfully it has 2 windows. I placed a window
fan in one window, and opened the other half way. Big difference in
the garage, which should have reduced the heat in the bonus room too,
albiet slightly, but every degree helps.

steve

Joseph Meehan wrote:
Extra note about the heat pump. Since it runs for, I believe you said
five minutes and then shuts off and you are not getting sufficient cooling
in the room(s) it services, it sounds like you have an unrelated problem
with the heat pump or the controls for it.

--
Joseph Meehan

Don't know about any insulation between the floor of the bonus room and
the garage ceiling as I have no access there. I did notice a slight
improvment in the bonus room when I cooled the garage down, so maybe
there's none? I DO know there's plenty of insulation everywhere else
as I can see it from inside the attic.

I live in Nashville. No problem in the winter, the room stays very
comfortable. Enough anyway that I'm not concerned. It does get cold,
but not too many days near zero, but many between zero and 20. It's
the summer and the heat that's driving me crazy.

The attic vents are a done deal, the guy comes on Monday to install
them. I HAVE to lower the temp in the attic, period, and it's just not
getting done w/ the way it's currently set up. I want some usable
storage space (not much, just some), and I want the bonus room to not
be so warm (3 of it's 4 walls have attic space opposite them, 1
majorly).

If the bonus room was not ajacent to the hot attic, and it's heat pump
was not in the attic, then I'd blow off the storage space and live with
it. But it's not and we use the bonus room every day as that's the
play room we 'baby-proofed' for our 1-year-old, and I just don't like
the way it currently is (temperature wise).

We have blinds and curtians on the window too - it's the &%@(&# attic
that's making it so darn hot up there.

I've considered alternatives, and looked into everything else I could
try. Powered vents to force some of the hot air out (and cooler fresh
air in) sounds like a viable soultion. I'm not looking to make it a
living space, just a cool it down a bit (or maybe a lot?).

steve

twstanley wrote:
I wouldn't bother with the attic vents. The temperature in the attic
you mentioned doesn't seem that high at all. The heat pump sounds like
it is working fine.

The problem you mentioned is that the bonus room heats up to quickly,
causing the heat pump to come on again sooner than you would like.

It sounds like the real problem is heat gain in the bonus room. Can
you find some ways to address that? Is there insulation below the
bonus room but above the garage ceiling? Are the walls & ceiling of
the bonus room insulated? Are there windows in the bonus room that
could benefit from blinds or window tint?

Insulation can be blown under the floor, into the walls and above the
room if you discover that it was somehow left out during
construction....

Where do you live? Does it get cold there during the winter? Do you
have problems with the heat pump running a lot to heat this room during
the winter?

I would guess you are not in the frozen north if you have a heat pump.

Steve Kulpa wrote:
snip Yesterday the temp reached
112 degrees F in the attic.

thanks again,
steve


I'd be thrilled if I could keep my attic temperature as low as 112 F.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Joseph Meehan wrote:

Steve Kulpa wrote:

If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling


And keep it that way. Insulating under the roof will raise the
temperature of the roof to the point it may become damaged. At least that
is true for many areas and roofing types.

Do you have a credible cite for that? I suspect it's an urban myth.


steve






--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

Steve Kulpa wrote:
Don't know about any insulation between the floor of the bonus room
and the garage ceiling as I have no access there. I did notice a
slight improvment in the bonus room when I cooled the garage down, so
maybe there's none? I DO know there's plenty of insulation
everywhere else as I can see it from inside the attic.

Sounds like twstanley put his finger on it; the most likely source of
the problem is heat gain from the garage, most likely due to the lack of
adequate flooring insulation in the bonus room. Heat gain from the
attic through insulated (R-6 or better) ductwork isn't significant. I
doubt that power venting the attic will do anything to change the
situation.

CJT wrote:
Joseph Meehan wrote:

Steve Kulpa wrote:

If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling


And keep it that way. Insulating under the roof will raise the
temperature of the roof to the point it may become damaged. At
least that is true for many areas and roofing types.

Do you have a credible cite for that? I suspect it's an urban myth.

Well if I said it would start a fire, I would call it an urban legend. I
may have miss worded it. How about "Insulating under the roof may raise the
temperature of the roof to the point it may reduce its life" :-)




steve

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Steve Kulpa wrote:
Don't know about any insulation between the floor of the bonus room
and the garage ceiling as I have no access there. I did notice a
slight improvment in the bonus room when I cooled the garage down, so
maybe there's none? I DO know there's plenty of insulation
everywhere else as I can see it from inside the attic.


Bingo! The problem is the heat coming into the room and a lot of it is
coming in from the garage.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Joseph Meehan wrote:

CJT wrote:

Joseph Meehan wrote:


Steve Kulpa wrote:


If it makes the heat pump run less - that's a good trade off imho!

also, there is no insulation under the roof, just above the ceiling


And keep it that way. Insulating under the roof will raise the
temperature of the roof to the point it may become damaged. At
least that is true for many areas and roofing types.

Do you have a credible cite for that? I suspect it's an urban myth.


Well if I said it would start a fire, I would call it an urban legend. I
may have miss worded it. How about "Insulating under the roof may raise the
temperature of the roof to the point it may reduce its life" :-)




steve


What little actual information I've been able to find suggests any
temperature rise is on the order of a few degrees -- far less than
the difference between shady and exposed areas.

--
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"Steve Kulpa" wrote in message ups.com...
That may be true, and would be fine with me, if:
a) it wasn't ajacent to the bonus room, which it heats up
b) there wasn't a heat pump in there, with all the duct work

Does the heat pump use attic air for its cooling air? If so, exhausting its output air
though a gable vent, or using a vent for its input air might solve your problem,
and increase its efficiency.

Bob