The switch on my Kenmore vac failed. It appears that a replacement from
Sears would cost more than $20.

A replacement switch must have the right dimensions for the body and
terminals. Is there now an online retailer with a wide selection of
fully described electrical switches?

Choreboy

Honestly...by the time you dig through a dozen websites, pay single unit
pricing, pay for shipping, handling, and insurance, $20.oo really isn't out
of line.
As well, Kenmore items usually use custom components for switches, so I
doubt that you will find a replacement.
Kim
"Choreboy" wrote in message
...
The switch on my Kenmore vac failed. It appears that a replacement from
Sears would cost more than $20.

A replacement switch must have the right dimensions for the body and
terminals. Is there now an online retailer with a wide selection of
fully described electrical switches?

Choreboy

That would make sense if I were being paid to fix it for a customer.
It's my backup vacuum. I don't want to put a lot of money into it and I
can afford to check websites at my convenience.

A few years ago the computer board for my HVAC failed. It would have
cost $200 to $300 to have it replaced. I found an online supplier with
a good inventory of well-described parts and did it for $20, including
spares. They have turned away from retail customers.

Before that I used a paper catalog with a good inventory of
well-described parts. They dropped their retail service.

If I found a good online retailer, the switch and shipping might be
under $10 and it could be as quick as ordering from Sears. I might end
up spending more than $20 for my order, but that would be because I'd
spotted other goodies.

Kim Sleep wrote:

Honestly...by the time you dig through a dozen websites, pay single unit
pricing, pay for shipping, handling, and insurance, $20.oo really isn't out
of line.
As well, Kenmore items usually use custom components for switches, so I
doubt that you will find a replacement.
Kim
"Choreboy" wrote in message
...
The switch on my Kenmore vac failed. It appears that a replacement from
Sears would cost more than $20.

A replacement switch must have the right dimensions for the body and
terminals. Is there now an online retailer with a wide selection of
fully described electrical switches?

Choreboy

Ross Herbert wrote:

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 18:07:29 -0500, Choreboy
wrote:

That would make sense if I were being paid to fix it for a customer.
It's my backup vacuum. I don't want to put a lot of money into it and I
can afford to check websites at my convenience.

A few years ago the computer board for my HVAC failed. It would have
cost $200 to $300 to have it replaced. I found an online supplier with
a good inventory of well-described parts and did it for $20, including
spares. They have turned away from retail customers.

Before that I used a paper catalog with a good inventory of
well-described parts. They dropped their retail service.

If I found a good online retailer, the switch and shipping might be
under $10 and it could be as quick as ordering from Sears. I might end
up spending more than $20 for my order, but that would be because I'd
spotted other goodies.

It would appear that you are quite handy and able to repair items
yourself. Along with this attribute it would be advantageous if you
developed your skills at component researching as most others who are
engaged in electronics development/repair have done.

I've been researching electronic components for 33 years. During that
time others have often recommended distributors. You're the first to
tell me, "That's for us to know and you to find out."

While paper
catalogues are nice to have they are costly to produce and need
constant updating.

Can you tell me why vendors of electronics parts send me paper catalogs
because I ordered online? Anyway, I'm talking about a time before there
was a www.

You have the perfect alternative right in front of
you in order to help you to find a suitable switch.

It's not a perfect alternative. Shopping on the web can take much
longer than from a paper catalog. When you seek a precise description
or try to order you may find that a vital function doesn't work with
your browser.

I am sure that any
number of suppliers such as Allied, Mouser, Digikey etc will have
something suitable, AND, they all have easily searchable on-line
catalogues, often with pictures. Even if no picture is supplied they
may give the manufacturers name and you can then go to the
manufacturers website and get further info from there.

Kim said digging through a dozen websites would take a lot of time. I
agree. That's why recommendations are valuable.

It seems to me that executives at parts distributors sometimes decide
they want only customers who buy in lots of a thousand or more. They
put up obstacles to discourage small customers. Allied did that 25
years ago.

Until ten years ago, Digikey was my favorite source. Then the cost of
small orders became unreasonable. I think they were starting to get a
lot of small orders over the web, and they decided it was a nuisance.

For awhile I had a good time with Carlton Bates. If I needed something
as small as a few diodes, they'd drop them into an envelope and charge
me only a small handling fee. A problem with online ordering is that
there may be no promise about shipping. They shocked me by putting 30
cents' worth of diodes into an insured box that shipped for ten dollars.
I got no assurance that they wouldn't do it again. It appeared that
they did not want my business.


Google is your friend....

Google has never done very well showing me the names of distributors who
encourage small customers.


Kim Sleep wrote:

Honestly...by the time you dig through a dozen websites, pay single unit
pricing, pay for shipping, handling, and insurance, $20.oo really isn't out
of line.
As well, Kenmore items usually use custom components for switches, so I
doubt that you will find a replacement.
Kim
"Choreboy" wrote in message
...
The switch on my Kenmore vac failed. It appears that a replacement from
Sears would cost more than $20.

A replacement switch must have the right dimensions for the body and
terminals. Is there now an online retailer with a wide selection of
fully described electrical switches?

Choreboy

"Choreboy" wrote in message
...
The switch on my Kenmore vac failed. It appears that a replacement from
Sears would cost more than $20.

Try other parts jobbers, but the pain of trying generic parts isn't worth
the savings IMO.

N

Ross Herbert wrote:

Since this switch is probably OEM then in order for us to help a photo
posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronics might be of assistance
so that we know what we are looking for.

I didn't expect so much assistance. I posted the picture right away. I
noticed it's marked Eaton 9221.


Yes, but with OEM items (as your rocker switch seems to be) it is
almost impossible for others to provide recommendations unless we know
full specifications of what you are looking for, as well as a picture.

It doesn't have to be a rocker. A DPST good for 6 A at 125 V should
work fine. If the terminals are the wrong size I can solder. The base
plate needs to be about 12.8 x 27.4 mm.


It seems to me that executives at parts distributors sometimes decide
they want only customers who buy in lots of a thousand or more. They
put up obstacles to discourage small customers. Allied did that 25
years ago.

I believe Allied is now part of the RS Components group and they
specifically pride themselves on small quantity sales. Admittedly the
price may be higher but if you only want one or two instead of
hundreds then the cost is worth it. I have an account with RS and
their service even for one-off is very good. If they don't have it
locally it will be sent overnight from another state. If it isn't in
Australia it will be obtained from UK within a week.

Back around 1980, a mail-order customer would send a check. The vendor
would give the check time to clear, then mail the merchandise. As I
recall, at the time, Allied required a customer to set up a corporate
account. I saw no reason for it except to exclude small customers.

Whenever I have
tried to use Mouser or Digikey they want exorbitant freight rates even
for small items weighing less than 100gms packed. I might buy US$50
worth of components and they want US$50 to send them out. It is simply
not economical. They simply won't use USPS because they have
contracts with the big freight companies such as Fedex etc. I
generally have far better luck and lower freight costs when dealing
with UK suppliers.

Because you mentioned Digikey in your last message, I checked. They
charge shipping plus $5 handling for orders under $25. That's what they
were doing 15 years ago. As I recall, their terms were less reasonable
at some point in the mean time, which is why I quit ordering.

If shipping a small order in the US costs $6, a small customer can
choose goods priced at $25 and pay only 24% extra, or $31. But is it
fair that he would pay more ($35) for a smaller order ($24)?

With web orders, I suppose the paperwork for an order doesn't cost much
because the customer types the input. Suppose in the morning somebody
has ordered three battery packs totaling $30 to repair three cordless
drills. The stockboy carts the basket with the list around the shelves,
drops in the three items, and sends the basket to shipping, which bills
another $6. The company doesn't bill for handling.

Suppose in the afternoon the same three items are ordered, but this time
it's three customers each repairing one drill. The stock boy puts three
baskets on his cart and drops in the same three items. This time the
company bills $15 for handling in addition to the $6 each for shipping.

That sounds discriminatory. Looking at how many orders are slightly
more than $25 and how few are less, an executive might conclude that
this policy increases sales. That's not the whole story.

Suppose the busy customer finds he needs an $11 item to get something
working. With $6 shipping and $5 handling he'll pay double unless he
orders more. He has a dilemma: pay double or stop what he's doing to
think of, find, and order $14 worth of other stuff. It makes ordering
less convenient. Over the years he's likely to accumulate items he
ordered in a hurry and found he couldn't use. This could discourage customers.


Google has never done very well showing me the names of distributors who
encourage small customers.

That's where the experience comes in. After a while you get to know
the companies who will. All it usually takes is an email to find out.

You led me to a breakthrough. Googling Digikey turned up Ralph
Stirling, an engineering professor with a list of electronics
distributors. I suppose he has found them reasonbable for the small customer.

Choreboy

Ross Herbert wrote:

On Fri, 25 Feb 2005 02:27:32 -0500, Choreboy
wrote:

Ross Herbert wrote:

Since this switch is probably OEM then in order for us to help a photo
posted to alt.binaries.schematics.electronics might be of assistance
so that we know what we are looking for.

I didn't expect so much assistance. I posted the picture right away. I
noticed it's marked Eaton 9221.



I just checked a.b.s.e and there is a post re the Eaton 9221. Thanks.

It looks like a pcb mount DPDT switch with long pins. The terminal
pins on one side of each pole have been cut off so it acts as a DPST
with no centre position. It seems to me that the oem specified
mounting plate has been added to suit the Kenmore vac. You won't find
one with the special mounting plate and this element seems to be the
critical component. However, you may find one you can modify.

The best you will probably find is something like this NKK M series
rocker http://www.nkkswitches.com/pdf/MrockersFlatFrame.pdf

I doubt that you will find any off-the-shelf switch these days with
long pcb pins so you will have to extend the 0.25" long pins/lugs
yourself. That should not be a problem though.

I reckon you might be able to use a M2022-TY-W-01-J-A (refer to tech
data). The mounting plate on the TY is 12.8 x 41.3 so you should be
able to trim it to suit. I specified the solder lug terminals so you
can easily add wires to lengthen them or you might specify the pcb
pins. The unused outer pins/lugs can be left alone or cut off to suit.

Now the only problem is where to get it. First port of call would be
to try the NKK distributors and reps
http://www.nkkswitches.com/NKKReps.asp

Hope this helps.

Ross H


Thank you!

M2022-TY-W-01-J-A looks like a good choice.

I could even get something functionally the same as a 9221, M2024. I
forgot to say the old switch says ON ON ON. I didn't know what to make
of it. It means SP3T.

I wouldn't have guessed it because what I need is a variation of DPST.
Well, what NKK calls SP3T is really a variation of DPDT, with a center
position where the poles are thrown opposite ways. If I clip two
terminals I'll have what I'm after.

Now I have three choices: buy an NKK M202x, install a generic switch on
the vacuum cleaner case, or follow sensible advice and get the OEM
switch from Sears. I'll see how hard it is to get an NKK.

I don't know if Sears went out of its way to use a hard-to-match switch,
but it reminds me of Henry Ford. He's known for developing a car that
was cheap to produce, but his first concern was making it cheap and easy
to repair. Before the Model T, drivers depended on OEM parts and
factory trained mechanics. If you didn't have plenty of money and stay
within towing range of a major dealer, you were better off with a horse.

Cboreboy