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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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Greetings All,
My son acquired and old oscilloscope, plugged it in, said he got a spot and then nothing. The scope is an old military unit. The model is AN/USM 117B. The power cord had been removed so I looked inside to see if I could determine where it used to go. I saw what looked like a capacitor in a rectangular can with hermetically sealed pins, 2 on each end, coming out. One pin hole was empty and it looks like solder is splashed on the can around the empty hole. This can is called a "Filter" on the schematic. I found the manual online and looked at the schematic. There are two schematics in the manual showing input power. One has the power going through the filter and the other does not. Each schematic is labeled the same. Since one schematic does not show the filter I want to bypass the filter. Does this sound like a bad idea? I don't really care much about the old scope, but I would like to get it going well enough to turn it into a scope clock. Thanks, Eric |
#2
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#4
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In article ,
wrote: The power cord had been removed so I looked inside to see if I could determine where it used to go. I saw what looked like a capacitor in a rectangular can with hermetically sealed pins, 2 on each end, coming out. One pin hole was empty and it looks like solder is splashed on the can around the empty hole. This can is called a "Filter" on the schematic. I found the manual online and looked at the schematic. There are two schematics in the manual showing input power. One has the power going through the filter and the other does not. Each schematic is labeled the same. In looking at the manual, it appears to me that the original AN/USM-177 version of the scope does not include this filter, while the later AN/USB-117B versions do. Since one schematic does not show the filter I want to bypass the filter. Does this sound like a bad idea? It is probably not _functionally_ required, but the scope's performance and reliability might be slightly affected without it. Filters like this serve two purposes: they help keep any RF noise on the power lines from getting into the scope (coupling through the power trnasformer and getting into the power supply rails) and noise generated within the device (e.g. switching noise from the diodes in the power supply) from getting back out into the power lines. In a low-power device like this, the former role is a lot more significant. The FL201 filter module looks like a "differential mode only" filter... it's probably got one or more inductors in series with the two power wires, and perhaps a capacitor or two between them. It doesn't show a connection to chassis/ground and so may or may not provide common-mode filtering. I don't really care much about the old scope, but I would like to get it going well enough to turn it into a scope clock. It should work with the filter bypassed. If you want, you could pick up a more modern filter module (Corcom makes 'em in many sizes) and wire that one in, in its place. A lot of the newer ones have both common- and differential-mode filtering. On the line side, they have three leads - hot, neutral, and chassis/ground - and would be wired to all three of the contacts on the power plug. You can also buy single-piece "power entry" modules, which take a modern IEC power cable (the type you see plugged into computers and the like) and which incorporate a filter of this sort inside the module. All Electronics has a couple of 'em in stock. They might or might not fit your chassis, with or without modification. |
#6
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In article ,
wrote: That's a good idea Dave, the IEC filter. I've seen them on the All Electronics site. In the meantime I think I should try to check as many caps as I can. I'm not sure about how well the scope will work if any caps are replaced but maybe I can adjust the scope by using the manual. It looks really comprehensive. Yes, failed 'lytic caps are a prime suspect in equipment as old as this. You're likely to find a bunch that have dried out and/or leaked - many will probably show low capacitance and/or high ESR. Be sure to be careful about high voltage - the HV filter caps and even the CRT itself can hold enough charge to lethally ruin your whole day (and all of the ones that follow). |
#7
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#8
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On Saturday, 10 August 2019 02:25:50 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
On 8/9/19 6:35 PM, wrote: I'm not sure about how well the scope will work if any caps are replaced but maybe I can adjust the scope by using the manual. Replace every one of them, paper and electrolytic Leave the ceramic and mica alone for now. Also, remove the filter. Connect directly, also for now. Get the scope working, then decide if you want to add a filter. Lytics are sometimes fine, sometimes bad. Papers mostly bad, and the ones that aren't soon will be 'Micamould' caps are paper not mica, they just imitate mica caps Ceramic & film are usually fine. Wholesale replacement is not usually a great policy. NT |
#9
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On 8/10/19 5:14 AM, wrote:
On Saturday, 10 August 2019 02:25:50 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote: On 8/9/19 6:35 PM, wrote: I'm not sure about how well the scope will work if any caps are replaced but maybe I can adjust the scope by using the manual. Replace every one of them, paper and electrolytic Leave the ceramic and mica alone for now. Also, remove the filter. Connect directly, also for now. Get the scope working, then decide if you want to add a filter. Lytics are sometimes fine, sometimes bad. Papers mostly bad, and the ones that aren't soon will be 'Micamould' caps are paper not mica, they just imitate mica caps Ceramic & film are usually fine. Wholesale replacement is not usually a great policy. NT You ignorant ****. I'm not even going to waste my time explaining this to you. -- "I am a river to my people." Jeff-1.0 WA6FWi http:foxsmercantile.com |
#10
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On Saturday, 10 August 2019 12:50:11 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote:
On 8/10/19 5:14 AM, tabbypurr wrote: On Saturday, 10 August 2019 02:25:50 UTC+1, Fox's Mercantile wrote: On 8/9/19 6:35 PM, wrote: I'm not sure about how well the scope will work if any caps are replaced but maybe I can adjust the scope by using the manual. Replace every one of them, paper and electrolytic Leave the ceramic and mica alone for now. Also, remove the filter. Connect directly, also for now. Get the scope working, then decide if you want to add a filter. Lytics are sometimes fine, sometimes bad. Papers mostly bad, and the ones that aren't soon will be 'Micamould' caps are paper not mica, they just imitate mica caps Ceramic & film are usually fine. Wholesale replacement is not usually a great policy. NT You ignorant ****. I'm not even going to waste my time explaining this to you. Good. NT |
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