"No wonder people hate you kind of people. "

If someone tries to defraud me I am perfectly justified in defrauding them. If you don't like it, just don't try to defraud me.

You aren't in the US I assume. Well that is the way it is, how much hate do you have ?

"Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was paid."

Can't do that in Ohio. It used to be, and I never heard of any change, that if you repair the unit they can go to the law and make you pay them double the repair bill and give them the unit repaired for free.

It is a harsh law for servicers but was written to punish unscrupulous car repair shops that either just fixed it or went way over the repair estimate and then took the car. People were losing their car because the bill was twice what was expected and they simply did not have the money. Now they don't have a car either.

We had to have a rubber stamp for the invoices until the ran out and the new ones had the estimate statement on them - pretty much what was on the rubber stamp.

.."You are such a bull artist. "Lock and load" That's a laugh if I ever
heard one. "

Try climbing in my back window in the middle of the night to test your theory.

Buy I will admit it is bull**** because I have a revolver and the term "lock and load" does not apply. And it will be cocked so grabbing the turret so it can't turn won't save you.

"The customer likely made a mistake about which amp was recently serviced. "

Maybe where you are, but this is the US.

"What's wrong with art history? Do you not like art? "

There are very few jobs in the field. Learn something useful and then study arts in your spare time.

On 5/15/2017 2:59 AM, wrote:
"Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was paid."

Can't do that in Ohio. It used to be, and I never heard of any change, that if you repair the unit they can go to the law and make you pay them double the repair bill and give them the unit repaired for free.

What are you talking about??? If you repair a unit you have to pay
THEM? How do you make any money?


It is a harsh law for servicers but was written to punish unscrupulous car repair shops that either just fixed it or went way over the repair estimate and then took the car. People were losing their car because the bill was twice what was expected and they simply did not have the money. Now they don't have a car either.

I think you have not explained the law very well. What does the law say
exactly?


We had to have a rubber stamp for the invoices until the ran out and the new ones had the estimate statement on them - pretty much what was on the rubber stamp.

I also can't make sense of this. What does the rubber stamp have
written on it?

--

Rick C

On 5/15/2017 3:05 AM, wrote:
"The customer likely made a mistake about which amp was recently serviced. "

Maybe where you are, but this is the US.

That's right, in the US everyone is out to get you! Only the mistaken
make mistakes!!!

--

Rick C

On 5/15/2017 9:16 AM, rickman wrote:
I also can't make sense of this.

It's jurb6006, he makes as much sense as Cook does.
Except Nigel does it without all the conspiracy theories
and dick waving.

--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 10:16:41 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
On 5/15/2017 2:59 AM, wrote:
"Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was paid."

Can't do that in Ohio. It used to be, and I never heard of any change, that if you repair the unit they can go to the law and make you pay them double the repair bill and give them the unit repaired for free.

What are you talking about??? If you repair a unit you have to pay
THEM? How do you make any money?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about prior estimate approval. I haven't run into this personally because I communicate directly with every customer and I'm very clear on this (well, there's one exception I may bore you all later with).

If an item is repaired without the estimate being approved, the customer doesn't have to pay for it. I'm only aware of double or treble damages being awarded to the customer in small claims court cases in the event of fraud, but laws vary state by state.

In the case we're talking about, if said customer brings in an identical item for warranty repair in an attempt to defraud, and you complete the repair and bill for it because you know it's not the same item, he doesn't have to pay for it if you haven't gotten prior approval. You of course have the option of unrepairing the item and returning it in it's original condition..

In the auto business where I live (CT), a work order *must* be signed by the customer before any work is done. Even if there's no complaint by the customer, the DMV here in Connecticut will heavily fine or even shutter an auto business that doesn't get work orders signed. If anyone thinks the Nazis moved to Argentina after the war, they're wrong: they moved to Connecticut and are writing business regulations here.

"If an item is repaired without the estimate being approved, the customer doesn't have to pay for it. I'm only aware of double or treble damages being awarded to the customer in small claims court cases in the event of fraud, but laws vary state by state. "

another thing not to take lying down is when it i s taking too long and they want their unit back now, unrepaired. I ttell them, OK pay the bill. But it isn't fixed. Well I got parts on order for it that I can't cancel and when you OKed that estimate you entered into a contract to pay that amount. Call your lawyer.

Not my softie ex-boss though. He must come from a different world or something. Know what one SOB did ? Well, it was a big shop and we misplaced a TV. Customer was of course not happy and sued. Well we found the TV and called the customer, who said he was going to drop the suit, so there was no need to go. Then the SOB gets a default judgement because nobody from our side showed up. Is that not fraud
?

People are out to get whatever they can by any means possible.

On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 1:18:39 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Know what one SOB did ? Well, it was a big shop and we misplaced a TV. Customer was of course not happy and sued. Well we found the TV and called the customer, who said he was going to drop the suit, so there was no need to go. Then the SOB gets a default judgement because nobody from our side showed up. Is that not fraud?

Yes, it's fraud. But if your boss was paying attention, he would have known that the case would have been found in the customer's favor "without prejudice". This means that the case could be reopened in case there was an extenuating circumstance to explain the no-show or a procedural error.

Most people I took to small claims didn't bother to show because they knew they were wrong, but some would file to reopen just to bust my ass. I learned that when the judge says the case is dismissed in my favor "with prejudice" because the defendant was a no-show, I then presented evidence that would show the customer was a nut job. Most times the judge changed the dismissal in my favor to "with prejudice".

On 5/15/2017 4:05 PM, Gareth Magennis wrote:
Look, how about don't be a dick when met with a dick.
It doesn't help.

Unfortunately, that concept is entirely beyond some people.

--
Jeff-1.0
wa6fwi
http://www.foxsmercantile.com

---
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On 5/15/2017 11:13 AM, wrote:
On Monday, May 15, 2017 at 10:16:41 AM UTC-4, rickman wrote:
On 5/15/2017 2:59 AM, wrote:
"Or repair it and not hand it over until the repair bill was
paid."

Can't do that in Ohio. It used to be, and I never heard of any
change, that if you repair the unit they can go to the law and
make you pay them double the repair bill and give them the unit
repaired for free.

What are you talking about??? If you repair a unit you have to pay
THEM? How do you make any money?

I'm pretty sure he's talking about prior estimate approval. I
haven't run into this personally because I communicate directly with
every customer and I'm very clear on this (well, there's one
exception I may bore you all later with).

If an item is repaired without the estimate being approved, the
customer doesn't have to pay for it. I'm only aware of double or
treble damages being awarded to the customer in small claims court
cases in the event of fraud, but laws vary state by state.

Ok, but his customer dropped it off for repair saying it was under
warranty. Since it is not under warranty it can't be repaired until the
customer is given the chance to approve the estimate. I get that.


In the case we're talking about, if said customer brings in an
identical item for warranty repair in an attempt to defraud, and you
complete the repair and bill for it because you know it's not the
same item, he doesn't have to pay for it if you haven't gotten prior
approval. You of course have the option of unrepairing the item and
returning it in it's original condition.

In the auto business where I live (CT), a work order *must* be signed
by the customer before any work is done. Even if there's no
complaint by the customer, the DMV here in Connecticut will heavily
fine or even shutter an auto business that doesn't get work orders
signed. If anyone thinks the Nazis moved to Argentina after the war,
they're wrong: they moved to Connecticut and are writing business
regulations here.

Yeah, but a signed work order doesn't protect the customer. I've taken
stuff in before and said I want an estimate and the FIX the damn thing
before they call me. The fine print on the work order seems to say I'm
authorizing anything they do. I don't know how to get my car fixed
without signing one of these things unless I do it myself.

--

Rick C

On 5/15/2017 1:10 PM, wrote:

Looks like USA stands for United Stupid Assholes.

I may have my problems, but I am so glad I am not you.

--

Rick C

" Looks like USA stands for United Stupid Assholes.

I may have my problems, but I am so glad I am not you. "

You don't know the half of it.

Granted there are some areas better than others, but in the cities people are rotten.

In article , rickman wrote:
Yeah, but a signed work order doesn't protect the customer. I've taken
stuff in before and said I want an estimate and the FIX the damn thing
before they call me. The fine print on the work order seems to say I'm
authorizing anything they do. I don't know how to get my car fixed
without signing one of these things unless I do it myself.

Here in California, behavior like that on the part of any auto-repair
business would be a violation of the law, and they could have their
license pulled for doing it.

Here's the page on the legal situation and advice in
California... other states' laws may vary.

https://www.bar.ca.gov/consumer/auto_repair_guide.html

They give some very good advice. In particular "Know Your Rights",
and "Before you sign, be sure you understand the work the technician
will do. Your signature means you agree to pay for the repairs up to
the amount specified. Do not sign a blank work order."

A work order is a contract. As with any contract, the terms are
largely negotiable, and it's not binding until it's signed. Signing a
blank work order (one without an agreed-upon upper limit) is legally
like signing a blank check. Not a good idea. Revising a contract
offered to you, before you sign it, is your right: whether the shop
chooses to accept and be bound by the altered contract is the
and decision.

If the "fine print on the work order seems to say I'm authorizing
anything they do", feel free to draw a line through it with your pen
("striking it out") before you sign. Initial and date the line-out
when you do it, so it's clear that you removed it from the contract.

If they haven't filled in an amount for doing the estimate, ask
specifically "What do you charge for investigating the problem and
giving me an estimate for the repair?"

If they say there's no charge, write "$0.00" in the maximum-
authorized-charge area before you sign it. If they give you a price,
write in that amount.

Then, sign the authorization. Keep one copy.

At that point, if they do any work on the car, then they have accepted
your contract as it was when you signed it. They're bound to the
amount on the form, and can't legally charge you more than that.

If they go ahead and do a repair without giving you the estimate and
getting your authorization, it's on them.

If they refuse to work on your car without having a blank work
order... leave. Find another auto-repair shop. And, consider
reporting the offender's behavior to your state's licensing
organization.

[Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer Nor Do I Play One On Television. Check
your states' laws to see how this situation plays out in your area.
Know your rights, and your obligations.]

On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 19:30:32 UTC+1, Dave Platt wrote:
In article , rickman wrote:
Yeah, but a signed work order doesn't protect the customer. I've taken
stuff in before and said I want an estimate and the FIX the damn thing
before they call me. The fine print on the work order seems to say I'm
authorizing anything they do. I don't know how to get my car fixed
without signing one of these things unless I do it myself.

Here in California, behavior like that on the part of any auto-repair
business would be a violation of the law, and they could have their
license pulled for doing it.

Here's the page on the legal situation and advice in
California... other states' laws may vary.

https://www.bar.ca.gov/consumer/auto_repair_guide.html

They give some very good advice. In particular "Know Your Rights",
and "Before you sign, be sure you understand the work the technician
will do. Your signature means you agree to pay for the repairs up to
the amount specified. Do not sign a blank work order."

A work order is a contract. As with any contract, the terms are
largely negotiable, and it's not binding until it's signed. Signing a
blank work order (one without an agreed-upon upper limit) is legally
like signing a blank check. Not a good idea. Revising a contract
offered to you, before you sign it, is your right: whether the shop
chooses to accept and be bound by the altered contract is the
and decision.

If the "fine print on the work order seems to say I'm authorizing
anything they do", feel free to draw a line through it with your pen
("striking it out") before you sign. Initial and date the line-out
when you do it, so it's clear that you removed it from the contract.

If they haven't filled in an amount for doing the estimate, ask
specifically "What do you charge for investigating the problem and
giving me an estimate for the repair?"

If they say there's no charge, write "$0.00" in the maximum-
authorized-charge area before you sign it. If they give you a price,
write in that amount.

Then, sign the authorization. Keep one copy.

At that point, if they do any work on the car, then they have accepted
your contract as it was when you signed it. They're bound to the
amount on the form, and can't legally charge you more than that.

If they go ahead and do a repair without giving you the estimate and
getting your authorization, it's on them.

If they refuse to work on your car without having a blank work
order... leave. Find another auto-repair shop. And, consider
reporting the offender's behavior to your state's licensing
organization.

[Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer Nor Do I Play One On Television. Check
your states' laws to see how this situation plays out in your area.
Know your rights, and your obligations.]

We don't have a law like that here in UK. Customers are routinely taken advantage of.


NT

On 5/16/2017 4:48 PM, wrote:
On Tuesday, 16 May 2017 19:30:32 UTC+1, Dave Platt wrote:
In article , rickman wrote:
Yeah, but a signed work order doesn't protect the customer. I've taken
stuff in before and said I want an estimate and the FIX the damn thing
before they call me. The fine print on the work order seems to say I'm
authorizing anything they do. I don't know how to get my car fixed
without signing one of these things unless I do it myself.

Here in California, behavior like that on the part of any auto-repair
business would be a violation of the law, and they could have their
license pulled for doing it.

Here's the page on the legal situation and advice in
California... other states' laws may vary.

https://www.bar.ca.gov/consumer/auto_repair_guide.html

They give some very good advice. In particular "Know Your Rights",
and "Before you sign, be sure you understand the work the technician
will do. Your signature means you agree to pay for the repairs up to
the amount specified. Do not sign a blank work order."

A work order is a contract. As with any contract, the terms are
largely negotiable, and it's not binding until it's signed. Signing a
blank work order (one without an agreed-upon upper limit) is legally
like signing a blank check. Not a good idea. Revising a contract
offered to you, before you sign it, is your right: whether the shop
chooses to accept and be bound by the altered contract is the
and decision.

If the "fine print on the work order seems to say I'm authorizing
anything they do", feel free to draw a line through it with your pen
("striking it out") before you sign. Initial and date the line-out
when you do it, so it's clear that you removed it from the contract.

If they haven't filled in an amount for doing the estimate, ask
specifically "What do you charge for investigating the problem and
giving me an estimate for the repair?"

If they say there's no charge, write "$0.00" in the maximum-
authorized-charge area before you sign it. If they give you a price,
write in that amount.

Then, sign the authorization. Keep one copy.

At that point, if they do any work on the car, then they have accepted
your contract as it was when you signed it. They're bound to the
amount on the form, and can't legally charge you more than that.

If they go ahead and do a repair without giving you the estimate and
getting your authorization, it's on them.

If they refuse to work on your car without having a blank work
order... leave. Find another auto-repair shop. And, consider
reporting the offender's behavior to your state's licensing
organization.

[Disclaimer: I Am Not A Lawyer Nor Do I Play One On Television. Check
your states' laws to see how this situation plays out in your area.
Know your rights, and your obligations.]

We don't have a law like that here in UK. Customers are routinely taken advantage of.

There is no such law here in the US. That sort of thing is regulated at
the state level and good luck getting anything done about a shop without
having to rent a car until the matter is settled.

--

Rick C