In a forum about cars here we go :

"If you needed a reverse rotation engine (for some reason)its just a cam swap, a starter relocate or swap and some tuning away."

Yeah right, then the oil pump sucks the oil out of your crank and cam bearings and pistons, and feeds it into the sump. (oilpan)

Without the special gear for the distributor, it will not work. It is more than just rearraingining the lobes. the oil pump must turn the right way, the distributor not so much. And then there is the water pump, boat engines have those.

(yeah, reverse rotation engines are almost always used in twin engine boats, the yachtsters say they handle better)

But some centrifugal pumps can be run backwards. If the impellers are straigh they have no problem with it. the problem is they are very rarely straight these days. They are bent for more efficiency. I got a buddy who works or worked on the molds for impellers fro jet engines. Those do not reverse. don't think the thrust reversers even think of runing that thing backwards. Don;t work that way.

And that brings me to the real rant. Engine and motor. Most dictionaries consider them to be complete sysnonyms. They are not.

If a jet engine was a motor, you could shove its exhaust up it's exhaust and have it come out fuel and O2 from the intake end. (just HOW could that be grammatically correct ? I really want to know)

The engine is a one way street and that is why Google is not called a search motor.

Now what else did I want to bitch about today ?

Oh, a guy on AK saying that changing out caps with high ESR affects the bias of an audio amp. You know, you might have to consioder me a bit of an audiophool because I am really trying to understand these people. But some things are out of this world.

got a piece of wood costrs thousands of dollars which picks your speaker wirtes up off the floor like a couple of inches to keep from that intereference or someting, or to keep the capacitance down, whatever. You could do it yourself for twenty bucks. Now that is what I consider audiophoolery.

Bt anyway, I guess tis OP here is an invitation to bring in soe stooooopidity that maybe some of us missed. Have a few laughs and maybe find out something we didn't know before.

And if not **** it.

wrote in message
...
Oh, a guy on AK saying that changing out caps with high ESR affects the
bias of an audio amp. You know, you might have to consioder me a bit of an
audiophool because I am really trying to understand these people. But some
things are out of this world.

got a piece of wood costrs thousands of dollars which picks your speaker
wirtes up off the floor like a couple of inches to keep from that
intereference or someting, or to keep the capacitance down, whatever. You
could do it yourself for twenty bucks. Now that is what I consider
audiophoolery.

I can see how changing the capacitors MIGHT affect the bias or sound. The
older ones may have a higher leakage current and cause the voltage to shift
slightly. While I doubt it is noticable, they seem to pay high dollars for
the striped coupling capacitors from years of old.

I do agree the audio people can be sold most anything. Best example for me
is an ad I saw in a magazine that wanted them to replace the AC line cord
with some special oxygen free copper wire or something like that. Just
suspose that 6 foot pice of wire that cost about $ 100 did do anything ,
what about the 20 to 50 feet of wire going to the breaker panel and then the
miles of junk wire going from the house back to the power. generating
station.

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 10:28:52 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
Best example for me
is an ad I saw in a magazine that wanted them to replace the AC line cord
with some special oxygen free copper wire or something like that.

Those sound great, you just need to make sure they're installed properly because they are directional..

.."I can see how changing the capacitors MIGHT affect the bias or sound."

That is a big "MIGHT". either the new ones or the old ones would have to be leaky. What's more they would have to be leaky enough to affect the supply voltage to the pre-out stages. Of course there is the one between the two bases across the bias regulator. But then the leakage would have to be pretty damn severe. There is like only 2 volts across there.

"I do agree the audio people can be sold most anything. "

Well I'm not trying to do that. I even told them they sghould just use Romex for speaker wire if they think it makes that much difference. Actually I have heard the difference. I was working for a rental joint, you know, rent to own. The boss and I were arguing about that, and I mean a civil argument. I said it really doesn't matter much. Welkl I guess it is a metter of what you call much. He grabbed a new 50 foot pack of speaker wire and said "Hook it up.

I had the nice bench there. they afforded me the time to build it and I had a full patch baye with speaker in and out to test amps and speakers and line level piped out to the front and even a phono input piped out to the "patch bay" which I made out of the bac panel of an amp. I could do many things. I connected the wire from amp out to speaker in and still had the jumpers on.

When I removed the jupres I was almost taken aback. Seriously this is an EXTREME example. We are talking 50 feet of like # 22 or so. Cheap stuff. We actually used it because of that, if the idiots shorted the wires at least the amps were not given a dead short. We had to fix them no matter what while under contract, so that was not a bad idea.

But this was not really audiophile equipment.

Most people do not know really, just how good sound can sound. I had some good speakers over the years and I can tell the difference. There is a difference. Sound that like affects your brain n ****. Even maybe your body. Remember those low notes from a church organ ?

"Those sound great, you just need to make sure they're installed properly because they are directional.. "

Yes, and that is based on which way the gold doped silkworms were spinning their cocoons.

I know there is some audiophoolery out there, but some things do matter. Like in my last post, I have heard the difference when you use speaker wire that really is too thin and long. It is like putting a resistor in series with it and no it does not only attenuate, it actually changes the sound.

But the fact is with 14 guage, even at 50 feet I doubt you can hear the difference.

Oh and this capacitor thing. Oy vey miz vir. To get better sound, some are replacing caps in the protection circuit. HELLO, that is not in the audio path nor is it a supply for any audio stage. Whe you tell me that sonds better, there is something wrong here.

Maybe that's what I should do, set up a double blind and have them prove it to me. that's what Bob Carver did if I read my history correctly. People with really good ears can hear the difference in amps. He went and ith measurement only, duplicated the sound of several amps. In the double vblind, the audiophiles could tell the difference in different amp models easily, but his aim was to duplicat any amp. He did it and while they could tell the difference between the Marantz and the MAC, when he duplicated an amp they could not tell the difference.

This is some **** from back in the 1970s, but wiki does have something on it. Actually Carver was pretty damn good. An MIT dropout actually. But he did have his claim to fame. He sold Phase Linear to Pioneer and started Carver, and from then on I didn't really like the products. He went into this commutating power supply **** which is an attempt at efficiency. And indeed the 1.5T was something, and it was something that they kept the doistortion down as the TWO sets of commutators worked, and the line noise down from the "magnetic field" regulator which was pretty much a traic based light dimmer on the primary of the power transformer with optocoupler control.

And then the asymetrical charge what the **** thing, which sorta like a Shotz tuner, blended the channels of a weak FM station but added ambience to the L-R from a CCD delay chip. Dude, you just left the high fidelity realm with that one. Sonic holography could be nice. If done right it can give you the separation of headphones but on speakers. In a very small range of listneing positions. But it seems Bob started to lust after that charge coupled device.


Gone was the high current technology of the past. The 1,000 damping factor of the 400/2 for example. I have presonally heard the difference. Even at low levels and on speakers that are not world class anymore. Still cna hear a difference and I know it is flat response because I have put square waves through quite a few amps. It bugs me that what I hear I cannot see, but there is a subtle difference.

Problem I have is when they start imagining it.

Enough for now. Later. I just wish people could distinguish reality from perception. There is some rality to it of course. But like the news in alot of western countries it is so ****ed up with fluff and bull**** you don't know what is going on. Like new stereos. You can hook it up to your phone, ipad, dick, PC, laptop, CD player. OK, where are like the bass and treble, and balance controls ? Wee we figured you don't need those and anstead put in ireless conectivity to Uncle Sam kows what you'r elisting to and when. That helps them program all the music on the radio staions in the country from up in NYC.

wrote in message
...
Well I'm not trying to do that. I even told them they sghould just use
Romex for speaker wire if they think it makes that much difference.
Actually I have heard the difference. I was working for a rental joint, you
know, rent to own. The boss and I were arguing about that, and I mean a
civil argument. I said it really doesn't matter much. Welkl I guess it is
a metter of what you call much. He grabbed a new 50 foot pack of speaker
wire and said "Hook it up.

I had the nice bench there. they afforded me the time to build it and I had
a full patch baye with speaker in and out to test amps and speakers and
line level piped out to the front and even a phono input piped out to the
"patch bay" which I made out of the bac panel of an amp. I could do many
things. I connected the wire from amp out to speaker in and still had the
jumpers on.


Going from # 22 to # 12 or # 14 can make a difference especially at higher
power levels. For the same gauge wire, I doubt that using the high dollar
'Monster Cable" would be noticable over the romex or any other type of
parallel wire cable.

"Going from # 22 to # 12 or # 14 can make a difference especially at higher
power levels."

It is not so much the power level as the current. the speaker's impedance is not the same at all frequencies. When you put a resistor in series with a reactive load, which a speaker is, the frequency response curve will follow the inverse of the speaker's impedance curve.

I'll tell you where this hurrts the most - old good sealed system speakers. Them SOBs have no idea what 8 ohms is. They vary from like 3 to 300 ohms. The frequencies at which they are 300 ohms will pass ust fine, but the frequencies at which they are 3 ohms, well 1 ohm would cause noticable attenuation. Lopp off a quarter of that voltage and you lose half the power. Now THAT you can hear. It is not audiophoolery.

I just like to separate out the chaff.

On Monday, March 16, 2015 at 3:47:40 PM UTC-4, wrote:
"Those sound great, you just need to make sure they're installed properly because they are directional.. "

Yes, and that is based on which way the gold doped silkworms were spinning their cocoons.


I heard that they spin those cocoons different in the southern hemisphere, but I digress..

I'll never forget the time one of my customers had an AC line conditioner on his TV and insisted it improved the black level.

On 3/16/2015 2:55 PM, wrote:
"Going from # 22 to # 12 or # 14 can make a difference especially at higher
power levels."

It is not so much the power level as the current. the speaker's impedance is not the same at all frequencies. When you put a resistor in series with a reactive load, which a speaker is, the frequency response curve will follow the inverse of the speaker's impedance curve.

I'll tell you where this hurrts the most - old good sealed system speakers. Them SOBs have no idea what 8 ohms is. They vary from like 3 to 300 ohms. The frequencies at which they are 300 ohms will pass ust fine, but the frequencies at which they are 3 ohms, well 1 ohm would cause noticable attenuation. Lopp off a quarter of that voltage and you lose half the power. Now THAT you can hear. It is not audiophoolery.

I just like to separate out the chaff.


I'm sure many have seen this but for those that haven't it's a hoot.
This is a response when "Monster Cable had issued a cease and desist
letter to Blue Jeans Cable about their Tartan cables.

http://www.audioholics.com/news/blue-jeans-strikes-back

2008

Mikek

"I'm sure many have seen this but for those that haven't it's a hoot."

I hadn't. And now I can't unsee it LOLOLOLOL.

Know what all that is ? That is lawyer speak for "SUE ME MF !".

En el artículo ,
escribió:

Bt anyway, I guess tis OP here is an invitation to bring in soe stooooopidity
that maybe some of us missed

http://www.russandrews.com/

and look at the claims, then the prices...

--
:: je suis Charlie :: yo soy Charlie :: ik ben Charlie ::

On Sun, 15 Mar 2015 22:06:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

In a forum about cars here we go :

"If you needed a reverse rotation engine (for some reason)its just a cam swap, a starter relocate or swap and some tuning away."

Yeah right, then the oil pump sucks the oil out of your crank and cam bearings and pistons, and feeds it into the sump. (oilpan)

Without the special gear for the distributor, it will not work. It is more than just rearraingining the lobes. the oil pump must turn the right way, the distributor not so much. And then there is the water pump, boat engines have those.

(yeah, reverse rotation engines are almost always used in twin engine boats, the yachtsters say they handle better)

But some centrifugal pumps can be run backwards. If the impellers are straigh they have no problem with it. the problem is they are very rarely straight these days. They are bent for more efficiency. I got a buddy who works or worked on the molds for impellers fro jet engines. Those do not reverse. don't think the thrust reversers even think of runing that thing backwards. Don;t work that way.

And that brings me to the real rant. Engine and motor. Most dictionaries consider them to be complete sysnonyms. They are not.

If a jet engine was a motor, you could shove its exhaust up it's exhaust and have it come out fuel and O2 from the intake end. (just HOW could that be grammatically correct ? I really want to know)

The engine is a one way street and that is why Google is not called a search motor.

Now what else did I want to bitch about today ?

Oh, a guy on AK saying that changing out caps with high ESR affects the bias of an audio amp. You know, you might have to consioder me a bit of an audiophool because I am really trying to understand these people. But some things are out of this world.

got a piece of wood costrs thousands of dollars which picks your speaker wirtes up off the floor like a couple of inches to keep from that intereference or someting, or to keep the capacitance down, whatever. You could do it yourself for twenty bucks. Now that is what I consider audiophoolery.

Bt anyway, I guess tis OP here is an invitation to bring in soe stooooopidity that maybe some of us missed. Have a few laughs and maybe find out something we didn't know before.

And if not **** it.


Check this out. Many years ago I sold this company's products.
(because I would have lost my job and I had a child to support) Every
Christmas Ray Kimber would send us some nice multigrain bread and
honey. Here is one of the reasons he could be so kind.
https://www.google.com/webhp?sourcei...90930563616290

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
http://www.avast.com

On 3/16/2015 8:07 PM, amdx wrote:

I'm sure many have seen this but for those that haven't it's a hoot.


I haven't seen it and it is a hoot.



Answer to an audiophile question at alt.engineering.electrical
http://preview.tinyurl.com/38879u7
see the post by Bill Shymanski

Ralph Mowery wrote:


I do agree the audio people can be sold most anything. Best example for
me is an ad I saw in a magazine that wanted them to replace the AC line
cord
with some special oxygen free copper wire or something like that. Just
suspose that 6 foot pice of wire that cost about $ 100 did do anything ,
what about the 20 to 50 feet of wire going to the breaker panel and then
the miles of junk wire going from the house back to the power. generating
station.
They don't think of that. Which, of course, is the whole problem with the
audiophool crowd. They don't THINK! They just believe! Where have I heard
that befoe?

Jon

"They just believe! Where have I heard
that befoe? "

Politics and religion.