Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 02:05:29 -0400, "Humbled Survivor"
wrote:

Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?

Ref: NEC 810.15, 810.20, 810.21

Both the antenna mast and the signal lead-in (via a listed antenna
discharge unit) should be grounded IAW the above sections.

Nothing prevents lightning strikes but the effects can be mitigated.

Rich Webb wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 02:05:29 -0400, "Humbled Survivor"
wrote:


Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?


Ref: NEC 810.15, 810.20, 810.21

Both the antenna mast and the signal lead-in (via a listed antenna
discharge unit) should be grounded IAW the above sections.

Nothing prevents lightning strikes but the effects can be mitigated.

actually, grounding it will attract near by strikes, but what ever..

THe emf pulse of a strike directly on a grounded mast will more than
likely cook the front end of what ever is connected to it and maybe
even jump around a bit.


Jamie

On 6/2/2013 7:39 AM, Jamie wrote:
Rich Webb wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 02:05:29 -0400, "Humbled Survivor"
wrote:


Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?


Ref: NEC 810.15, 810.20, 810.21

Both the antenna mast and the signal lead-in (via a listed antenna
discharge unit) should be grounded IAW the above sections.


But the provisions of the NEC are not to protect from direct lightning
strikes to an antenna - much more elaborate protection is required. They
can provide protection from other surge sources, like near strikes.

For best protection the ground from antenna line entry protectors must
connect with a short wire to the power earthing system. You want to
minimize the voltage between power and antenna wires.

Nothing prevents lightning strikes but the effects can be mitigated.

actually, grounding it will attract near by strikes, but what ever..

Not according to what I read.


THe emf pulse of a strike directly on a grounded mast will more than
likely cook the front end of what ever is connected to it and maybe
even jump around a bit.


Hams with high antennas routinely protect from direct strikes to their
antennas. The rest of us are not likely to install the protection hams
install. But most of us do not have antennas as exposed as some ham
antennas.

bud-- wrote:

On 6/2/2013 7:39 AM, Jamie wrote:

Rich Webb wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 02:05:29 -0400, "Humbled Survivor"
wrote:


Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?



Ref: NEC 810.15, 810.20, 810.21

Both the antenna mast and the signal lead-in (via a listed antenna
discharge unit) should be grounded IAW the above sections.


But the provisions of the NEC are not to protect from direct lightning
strikes to an antenna - much more elaborate protection is required. They
can provide protection from other surge sources, like near strikes.

For best protection the ground from antenna line entry protectors must
connect with a short wire to the power earthing system. You want to
minimize the voltage between power and antenna wires.

Nothing prevents lightning strikes but the effects can be mitigated.


actually, grounding it will attract near by strikes, but what ever..


Not according to what I read.


THe emf pulse of a strike directly on a grounded mast will more than
likely cook the front end of what ever is connected to it and maybe
even jump around a bit.


Hams with high antennas routinely protect from direct strikes to their
antennas. The rest of us are not likely to install the protection hams
install. But most of us do not have antennas as exposed as some ham
antennas.



I am a HAM, so if you're getting your information from there, then you
better read between the lines..

Ham radio towers get hit many times in a season, they are not immune
from it.

NEC guide lines is there to protect people and that means the
structures people live or work in. THey don't give a rats ass about
antennas and devices connected to them, getting destroyed, they encourage
it. That way the lightning will be drawn away from the structure in hopes
that any thing conducting to ground, your antenna and mast, will steer
it away.

In most cases as for HAM radio, the radials are horizontal because most
of them put their beams at the vary top. normally you extend the mast
above the mounting axes. I add a

The tower our 2 meter equipment is at has lightning rods at the very
top with a beacon light, however, it does not always save the day.
antennas mounted on the side of the tower still get a nice strong pulse.

We use polyphaser protection devices, they seem to work the best for
what we need.

Jamie

On 6/2/2013 9:58 AM, Jamie wrote:
bud-- wrote:

On 6/2/2013 7:39 AM, Jamie wrote:

Rich Webb wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 02:05:29 -0400, "Humbled Survivor"
wrote:


Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?



Ref: NEC 810.15, 810.20, 810.21

Both the antenna mast and the signal lead-in (via a listed antenna
discharge unit) should be grounded IAW the above sections.


But the provisions of the NEC are not to protect from direct lightning
strikes to an antenna - much more elaborate protection is required.
They can provide protection from other surge sources, like near strikes.

For best protection the ground from antenna line entry protectors must
connect with a short wire to the power earthing system. You want to
minimize the voltage between power and antenna wires.

Nothing prevents lightning strikes but the effects can be mitigated.


actually, grounding it will attract near by strikes, but what ever..


Not according to what I read.


THe emf pulse of a strike directly on a grounded mast will more than
likely cook the front end of what ever is connected to it and maybe
even jump around a bit.


Hams with high antennas routinely protect from direct strikes to their
antennas. The rest of us are not likely to install the protection hams
install. But most of us do not have antennas as exposed as some ham
antennas.



I am a HAM, so if you're getting your information from there, then you
better read between the lines..

Ham radio towers get hit many times in a season, they are not immune
from it.

And hams with high antennas are very likely to have good protection from
a direct lightning strike.

The OP is very unlikely to have antenna that is significantly exposed.


NEC guide lines is there to protect people and that means the structures
people live or work in. THey don't give a rats ass about
antennas and devices connected to them, getting destroyed, they encourage
it. That way the lightning will be drawn away from the structure in hopes
that any thing conducting to ground, your antenna and mast, will steer
it away.

The provisions in the NEC, which Rich referred to, are not intended to
protect from a direct lightning strike and won't protect from a direct
strike. NEC compliant wiring will not 'draw' the lightning away from the
structure.

On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 09:15:06 -0600, bud--
wrote:

On 6/2/2013 7:39 AM, Jamie wrote:
Rich Webb wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 02:05:29 -0400, "Humbled Survivor"
wrote:


Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?


Ref: NEC 810.15, 810.20, 810.21

Both the antenna mast and the signal lead-in (via a listed antenna
discharge unit) should be grounded IAW the above sections.


But the provisions of the NEC are not to protect from direct lightning
strikes to an antenna - much more elaborate protection is required. They
can provide protection from other surge sources, like near strikes.

For best protection the ground from antenna line entry protectors must
connect with a short wire to the power earthing system. You want to
minimize the voltage between power and antenna wires.

Roger all of the above.

Re-reading the OP's question, he may have been asking if he could
ground the mast to the premise ground and bond the signal downlead
discharge gizmo to the mast's ground wire.

\ /
\ /---.
|| |
m || | R
a || | F
s || |
t || |
|| |
,-++---[ ] discharge unit
| || |
| `---------RF--
|
| grounding wire
__|+___
|| premise ground rod
||

On Jun 2, 1:46*pm, Rich Webb wrote:
On Sun, 02 Jun 2013 09:15:06 -0600, bud--
wrote:





On 6/2/2013 7:39 AM, Jamie wrote:
Rich Webb wrote:

On Sun, 2 Jun 2013 02:05:29 -0400, "Humbled Survivor"
wrote:

Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?

Ref: NEC 810.15, 810.20, 810.21

Both the antenna mast and the signal lead-in (via a listed antenna
discharge unit) should be grounded IAW the above sections.

But the provisions of the NEC are not to protect from direct lightning
strikes to an antenna - much more elaborate protection is required. They
can provide protection from other surge sources, like near strikes.

For best protection the ground from antenna line entry protectors must
connect with a short wire to the power earthing system. You want to
minimize the voltage between power and antenna wires.

Roger all of the above.

Re-reading the OP's question, he may have been asking if he could
ground the mast to the premise ground and bond the signal downlead
discharge gizmo to the mast's ground wire.

* * \ * */
* * *\ */---.
* * * || * *|
* * m || * *| *R
* * a || * *| *F
* * s || * *|
* * t || * *|
* * * || * *|
* * ,-++---[ ] *discharge unit
* *| *|| * *|
* *| * * * * `---------RF--
* *|
* *| grounding wire
__|+___
* || premise ground rod
* ||- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

If you get a 100,000 ampere lightning strike directly to anything
other than a metal building, the V=IR (voltage = current x resistance)
drop is going to raise the voltage of everything tied together many
many volts. All you can do is try to keep everything at the same
(elevated) voltage to avoid killing people/animals. This is done by
tying everything to the same local internal "ground". By having a low
impedance to earth ground using grounding rods and water pipes, you
try to minimize the difference between the local ground and the earth
ground. The current from a lightning strike will induce many
thousands of volts in any conductor a few feet long within 1000 feet
of the actual lightning strike. I have seen an arc form from a tv
lead-in wire to a ground when lightning hit 2000 feet away. The arc
jumped a 1" air gap, so the arc voltage was well over 1000 volts. A
protection device on the lead-in wire would probably have kept that
voltage under 100 volts. So grounding the antenna mast helps, but a
protection device on the lead-in is adding suspenders to a very weak
belt.

"Humbled Survivor"

Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

** Yep.

The pole needs to be linked to metal plumbing with a heavy gauge copper
wire.


Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?


** If it is isolated by a "balun", then yep - it a good idea too.


Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?


** Can I suggest you make your peace with god right now ??




.... Phil

Phil Allison wrote:

"Humbled Survivor"

Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

** Yep.

The pole needs to be linked to metal plumbing with a heavy gauge copper
wire.

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

** If it is isolated by a "balun", then yep - it a good idea too.

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?

** Can I suggest you make your peace with god right now ??

... Phil


It's illegal to use a pipe for ground in the US. The joints corrode,
and are high resistance to ground after years of use. You had to
install a bonding jumper around a water meter, years ago when it was
legal.

Some fools have used the wrong pipe for natural gas, then another
fool assumed they were water lines and used them for a ground. The
results were explosive and sometimes fatal.

Water was run in galvanized pipe, and natural gas in black iron.
Today, both are installed in various types of plastic. Some very early
water lines were hollowed out oak, and coated with pitch.

On 6/2/2013 12:40 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"Humbled Survivor"

Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

** Yep.

The pole needs to be linked to metal plumbing with a heavy gauge copper
wire.

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

** If it is isolated by a "balun", then yep - it a good idea too.

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?

** Can I suggest you make your peace with god right now ??

... Phil


It's illegal to use a pipe for ground in the US. The joints corrode,
and are high resistance to ground after years of use. You had to
install a bonding jumper around a water meter, years ago when it was
legal.

The NEC *requires* a metal water service pipe (minimum 10 feet long in
the earth) be used as an earthing electrode, just like it has since time
began. Connection now has to be withing 5 feet of the entrance to the
house, and meters still have to have a bond around. Because plastic
water service pipe is becoming more common a "supplemental" electrode is
now also required. A metal municipal water system is the best earthing
electrode that is available at a house.


Some fools have used the wrong pipe for natural gas, then another
fool assumed they were water lines and used them for a ground. The
results were explosive and sometimes fatal.

Gas service pipe is not allowed to be used as an earthing electrode by
the NEC. But gas pipe is grounded by branch circuits, like at gas furnace.

CSST (corrugated stainless steel tubing) is becoming real common for
interior gas pipe because it is so easy to use. It is easy to use
because the wall is so thin. There have been many fires from arcing
between the thin pipe and nearby grounded surfaces. I believe all the
manufacturers now require the pipe be bonded to the house earthing
system in a way that results in the gas supply pipe being an earthing
electrode. 'Properly' bonded CSST has also caused fires. A
recommendation by an electrical inspector is for electricians to not do
the bonding, then they will not be named in the lawsuit.

bud-- wrote:

On 6/2/2013 12:40 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Phil Allison wrote:

"Humbled Survivor"

Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?

** Yep.

The pole needs to be linked to metal plumbing with a heavy gauge copper
wire.

Does the negative of the coaxial cable have to be grounded?

** If it is isolated by a "balun", then yep - it a good idea too.

Which method is best for preventing lightening strikes?

** Can I suggest you make your peace with god right now ??

... Phil


It's illegal to use a pipe for ground in the US. The joints corrode,
and are high resistance to ground after years of use. You had to
install a bonding jumper around a water meter, years ago when it was
legal.

The NEC *requires* a metal water service pipe (minimum 10 feet long in
the earth) be used as an earthing electrode, just like it has since time
began. Connection now has to be withing 5 feet of the entrance to the
house, and meters still have to have a bond around. Because plastic
water service pipe is becoming more common a "supplemental" electrode is
now also required. A metal municipal water system is the best earthing
electrode that is available at a house.


Not everyone is on municipal water, or even have a water meter. My
well is physically over 100 feet from my electrical service, in another
building. In fact, the actual pump is 20 feet past the original well
house so a bonding wire between the pump and the pole mounted drop would
be worthless. The wire is over 150 feet, and goes through three breaker
boxes before it reaches the wellhead, and another 85' downhole to the
pump itself. The casing is well grounded, and so is the old casing from
a 50' well that went dry.


Some fools have used the wrong pipe for natural gas, then another
fool assumed they were water lines and used them for a ground. The
results were explosive and sometimes fatal.

Gas service pipe is not allowed to be used as an earthing electrode by
the NEC. But gas pipe is grounded by branch circuits, like at gas furnace.


They used orange plastic pipe for gas service at the last place I
could get natural gas. There was a 14 AWG tracer wire run along the
side of the plastic, in case it needed to be located in the future. At
that time, only black iron was allowed. I should know, since I had to
replace the 40+ year old pipe. It was real fun getting a 21' piece of
black iron down a 10' stairwell. You should have seen the inspector
scratching his head, trying to figure that out. ;-)


CSST (corrugated stainless steel tubing) is becoming real common for
interior gas pipe because it is so easy to use. It is easy to use
because the wall is so thin. There have been many fires from arcing
between the thin pipe and nearby grounded surfaces. I believe all the
manufacturers now require the pipe be bonded to the house earthing
system in a way that results in the gas supply pipe being an earthing
electrode. 'Properly' bonded CSST has also caused fires. A
recommendation by an electrical inspector is for electricians to not do
the bonding, then they will not be named in the lawsuit.


I wouldn't use that, unless the local code demanded it. Even then, I
would consider having no gas appliances, or furnace. I haven't used the
furnace here, in the 14 years i've lived here. I am going to take it
out, since the firebox is now so rusted that it wouldn't be safe to
use.

"bud--"

Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?


** AFAIK - the main reason TV antennas are required to be grounded is NOT
because of possible acts by a mighty and vengeful god.

The simple reason is that the antenna may become live AC supply voltage and
so make the TV set (and anything attached to it) inside the premises into a
lethal shock hazard.

This could be because an overhead power cable has detached in a strong wind
or because of an automobile accident etc.

ALTERNATIVELY - the antenna may become live due to a faulty equipment or
wiring inside the premises and so present a lethal hazard to any poor damn
fool who is game enough to get up on the roof for any reason.

Grounding the damn antenna any which way you can is essential.



..... Phil

On 6/4/2013 6:21 AM, Phil Allison wrote:
"bud--"

Can I ground out my outdoor FM antenna from the pole?


** AFAIK - the main reason TV antennas are required to be grounded is NOT
because of possible acts by a mighty and vengeful god.

The simple reason is that the antenna may become live AC supply voltage and
so make the TV set (and anything attached to it) inside the premises into a
lethal shock hazard.

This could be because an overhead power cable has detached in a strong wind
or because of an automobile accident etc.

ALTERNATIVELY - the antenna may become live due to a faulty equipment or
wiring inside the premises and so present a lethal hazard to any poor damn
fool who is game enough to get up on the roof for any reason.

Grounding the damn antenna any which way you can is essential.

.... Phil


Other reasons are to earth static charges from the wind and control
surges induced by near strikes.