http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

On Jan 24, 9:52*pm, bob urz wrote:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

Reminds me of a time where a lab device tipped over and spilled
mercury all over the place.
It was some kind of storage device as I can recall. I gladly left the
room, while some
poor fool had to wipe it up.

greg

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:58:44 -0800 (PST), GS
wrote:

On Jan 24, 9:52*pm, bob urz wrote:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

Reminds me of a time where a lab device tipped over and spilled
mercury all over the place.
It was some kind of storage device as I can recall. I gladly left the
room, while some
poor fool had to wipe it up.

greg

Where I have a CFL that gets "bump" exposure (workshop, trouble light)
the CFL is bagged in a freezer grade plastic bag with a tight tape
wrap around the base. Not perfect, but better than a totally exposed
bulb.

John

wrote in message
...

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:58:44 -0800 (PST), GS
wrote:

On Jan 24, 9:52 pm, bob urz wrote:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

Reminds me of a time where a lab device tipped over and spilled
mercury all over the place.
It was some kind of storage device as I can recall. I gladly
left the
room, while some
poor fool had to wipe it up.

greg

Where I have a CFL that gets "bump" exposure (workshop, trouble
light)
the CFL is bagged in a freezer grade plastic bag with a tight
tape
wrap around the base. Not perfect, but better than a totally
exposed
bulb.

John

I am amazed that the mercury in CFLs is getting so much
attention. There has been mercury in all fluorescent lamps since
their inception. If you break a four foot tube there is a lot
more mercury there than in a CFL.

David

wrote in :

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:58:44 -0800 (PST), GS
wrote:

On Jan 24, 9:52*pm, bob urz wrote:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

Reminds me of a time where a lab device tipped over and spilled
mercury all over the place.
It was some kind of storage device as I can recall. I gladly left the
room, while some
poor fool had to wipe it up.

you don't wipe a spill like that,you vacuum with a trap bottle.


greg

Where I have a CFL that gets "bump" exposure (workshop, trouble light)
the CFL is bagged in a freezer grade plastic bag with a tight tape
wrap around the base. Not perfect, but better than a totally exposed
bulb.

John


When I was in USAF PME (precision measurement equipment)school in
Denver,during the exam for the Pressure,Temperature and Dimensional
block,an instructor had set a pressure regulator FAR too high,and even
though the student being tested configured everything right,as soon as a
valve was cracked open,the high pressure caused a mercury barometer to spew
mercury like a fountain,mercury all over the test room.
they had to evacuate,shut down the room,and clean up before testing could
resume. at least a pint of mercury got spilled,IIRC. Cleanup took quite a
while.


--
Jim Yanik
jyanik
at
localnet
dot com

On 1/25/2011 2:58 PM, GS wrote:
Reminds me of a time where a lab device tipped over and
spilled mercury all over the place.

Ah for simpler times... Back in High School chemstry class
one of the students dropped a 1/2 quart jar of Mercury on
the floor.

"That ****'s expensive" so we were all on our hands and knees
chasing it around with 3x5 cards scooping it back up and
dribbling it into a new jar.

And tell me I'm not the only one that looked forward to
"Replacement fluorescent lamp day" at the local market.
My friends and I would run off with 50-60 8' lamps and
go have an epic sword fight until they were all broken.

Jeff

I haven't seen a hot/warm CFL burst (yet), but I've had 3 of 'em start to
strobe, and then the glass spiral tubes got very hot, and may have broken by
themselves, but I was present each time, and shut them off.

I'm no specialist, but spilling cold mercury may not be the same as
releasing hot mercury vapor.. although I'm fairly certain that avoiding
either exposure is a good idea.

And as was mentioned, long tubes weren't ever scrutinized as much, and look
how many decades they have been used in massive quantities.
Also, I believe that mercury was present in early latex paints, intended to
replace the lead paints as a safer solution.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"bob urz" wrote in message
...
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:58:44 -0800 (PST), GS
wrote:

On Jan 24, 9:52*pm, bob urz wrote:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

Reminds me of a time where a lab device tipped over and spilled
mercury all over the place.
It was some kind of storage device as I can recall. I gladly left the
room, while some
poor fool had to wipe it up.

greg

Liquid mercury is not terribly hazardous, the problem is with
vaporized mercury such as found in CFLs.

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 17:06:55 -0600, "David"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

On Tue, 25 Jan 2011 12:58:44 -0800 (PST), GS
wrote:

On Jan 24, 9:52 pm, bob urz wrote:
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

Reminds me of a time where a lab device tipped over and spilled
mercury all over the place.
It was some kind of storage device as I can recall. I gladly
left the
room, while some
poor fool had to wipe it up.

greg

Where I have a CFL that gets "bump" exposure (workshop, trouble
light)
the CFL is bagged in a freezer grade plastic bag with a tight
tape
wrap around the base. Not perfect, but better than a totally
exposed
bulb.

John

I am amazed that the mercury in CFLs is getting so much
attention. There has been mercury in all fluorescent lamps since
their inception. If you break a four foot tube there is a lot
more mercury there than in a CFL.

David


CFLs get used in places that long tubes aren't - trouble lights, etc -
and they are rarely in a fixture that provides some type of cover,
which is usually the case with a long tube fixure in living or office
areas. Workshops and warehouses can be exceptions, depending on their
age.

My concern is making the cleanup of tiny glass shards easier - don't
want one of the grandkids to run barefoot through the garage and wind
up with glass in her foot. The potential mercury containment is just
a side benefit. On the other hand, a damaged but bagged CFL will
probably be accepted at your local CFL recycler.

John

Jeffrey Angus wrote:

On 1/25/2011 2:58 PM, GS wrote:

Reminds me of a time where a lab device tipped over and
spilled mercury all over the place.


Ah for simpler times... Back in High School chemstry class
one of the students dropped a 1/2 quart jar of Mercury on the floor.

Ditto here, back in the lat 1940s or so it was quite common for kids to
rub mercury on silver coins to give them a marvelous sheen which only
lasted a few hours before darkening through whatever chemical reaction
took place.

Jeff (Who spells his first name with one less "e" than Mr. Angus.)

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.


"That ****'s expensive" so we were all on our hands and knees
chasing it around with 3x5 cards scooping it back up and
dribbling it into a new jar.

And tell me I'm not the only one that looked forward to
"Replacement fluorescent lamp day" at the local market.
My friends and I would run off with 50-60 8' lamps and
go have an epic sword fight until they were all broken.

Jeff

Rubbing mercury on coins was still a fairly regular pastime in the early
60s. too.. lots of kids/teens would do this, as small quantities of mercury
were quite prevelent in many home workshops then.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"jeff_wisnia" wrote in message
...

Ditto here, back in the lat 1940s or so it was quite common for kids to
rub mercury on silver coins to give them a marvelous sheen which only
lasted a few hours before darkening through whatever chemical reaction
took place.

Jeff (Who spells his first name with one less "e" than Mr. Angus.)

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10e12 furlongs per fortnight.

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 22:16:27 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Rubbing mercury on coins was still a fairly regular pastime in the early
60s. too.. lots of kids/teens would do this, as small quantities of mercury
were quite prevelent in many home workshops then.

You mean like this?
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg
The bottle is about 40% full. I used the missing mercury for various
illegal and entertaining purposes. Re-silvering ancient sextant
mirrors was one of my sidelines. I've also supplied some mercury to
several doctors for refilling their mercury sphygmomanometer. The
typical CFL bulb has about 3mg of Hg. When full, the bottle had a net
weight of about 2kg of Hg.

As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf
"Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent
to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) – they
would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
emissions caused by humans."


`
--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On 1/27/2011 8:50 PM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:

As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf
"Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent
to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) – they
would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
emissions caused by humans."

That's interesting. Of course, it tells us *nothing* about how alarmist
and wrong what we "know" about mercury is; all it tells us is that the
amount of mercury in CFLs is much smaller than the total amount of
mercury let loose by human beans. Says nothing about mercury's toxicity.

(I guess I have an average mercury "body burden" since I have amalgam
fillings. But I still can't for the life of me figure out just how it's
OK to walk around with mercury in my TEETH just because it's been mixed
with other metals. It's not even an *alloy*, for chrissakes. How does
that work?)


--
Comment on quaint Usenet customs, from Usenet:

To me, the *plonk...* reminds me of the old man at the public hearing
who stands to make his point, then removes his hearing aid as a sign
that he is not going to hear any rebuttals.

Yep.. Lots of alarmist stuff filling the airwaves/media these days, in those
nasty microwaves and dangerous poison-laced paper products used for printed
materials.

I fill compelled to add a (personal view, based in reality) reminder/wakeup
that many of the materials considered to be extremely hazardous or
potentially deadly, began as materials that were definitely harmful to work
around for *years/decades* without proper personal protection.

Dust control, fume extraction and other precautions were simply often
neglect of employers to properly protect workers from years of long term
exposure.

--
Cheers,
WB
..............


"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...

You mean like this?
http://802.11junk.com/jeffl/crud/mercury.jpg
The bottle is about 40% full. I used the missing mercury for various
illegal and entertaining purposes. Re-silvering ancient sextant
mirrors was one of my sidelines. I've also supplied some mercury to
several doctors for refilling their mercury sphygmomanometer. The
typical CFL bulb has about 3mg of Hg. When full, the bottle had a net
weight of about 2kg of Hg.

As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf
"Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent
to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) - they
would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
emissions caused by humans."


`
--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partner...et_Mercury.pdf

"Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs sold in 2009 were sent
to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) -- they
would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
emissions caused by humans."

Mercury /is/ a poison, and we don't want people coming into contact with it.
However...

A simple mental calculation shows that 1,000,000 mercury button cells (of
the type that once powered cameras) would take up a volume of about 1 cubic
meter. Spread over 10,000 landfills, that's nothing.

As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partner...et_Mercury.pdf

"Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent
to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) – they
would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
emissions caused by humans."

That's interesting. Of course, it tells us *nothing* about how alarmist
and wrong what we "know" about mercury is; all it tells us is that the
amount of mercury in CFLs is much smaller than the total amount of
mercury let loose by human beans. Says nothing about mercury's toxicity.

I guess I have an average mercury "body burden" since I have amalgam
fillings. But I still can't for the life of me figure out just how it's
OK to walk around with mercury in my TEETH just because it's been
mixed with other metals. It's not even an *alloy*, for chrissakes. How
does
that work?

I don't know exactly what is in an amalgam. But it's well know that you have
to grind your teeth vigorously to release any mercury. If you're worried,
have your dentist replace the fillings with glass/plastic "concrete".

Metallic mercury is less toxic than organic mercury compounds. This article
(correctly) explains that the mercury in CFLs is not much of problem -- then
tells people to air out the room if they break a bulb!

This is a classic example of people worrying about things that are of
relatively little importance, while ignoring significant problems.

On Thu, 27 Jan 2011 21:26:28 -0800, David Nebenzahl
wrote:

On 1/27/2011 8:50 PM Jeff Liebermann spake thus:

As usual, much of what we know about mercury is alarmist and wrong:
http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf
"Therefore, if all 272 million CFLs3 sold in 2009 were sent
to a landfill (versus recycled, as a worst case) – they
would add 0.12 metric tons, or 0.12 percent, to U.S. mercury
emissions caused by humans."

That's interesting. Of course, it tells us *nothing* about how alarmist
and wrong what we "know" about mercury is; all it tells us is that the
amount of mercury in CFLs is much smaller than the total amount of
mercury let loose by human beans. Says nothing about mercury's toxicity.

The alarmist part is in the safe handling of broken CFL lamps and the
relative levels of mercury in the environment produced by breaking CFL
lamps verus electric power generation.

(I guess I have an average mercury "body burden" since I have amalgam
fillings.

Run a urine Porphyrin Profile test for mercury and see if you're
polluted or contaminated. It tests for organic methyl mercury
poisoning. There's also a stool test and a hair test. About $100. Be
sure to test for other heavy metals.

But I still can't for the life of me figure out just how it's
OK to walk around with mercury in my TEETH just because it's been mixed
with other metals. It's not even an *alloy*, for chrissakes. How does
that work?)

If your fillings were disappearing, you might be worried. I had some
dentistry done about 4 months ago. My wallet hurt more than my mouth.
The amalgum fillings were still all there, but the teeth rotted out
under them. So, we removed the amalgum fillings and replaced them
with UV cured cement. Cool stuff, looks good, and non-toxic, but no
improvement in overall health so far.

The danger is when the mercury binds with H2S gas produced in the
stomach and produces methyl mercury CH3-Hg-CH3 which is absorbed that
by various organs and produces assorted medical problems. There are
other mechanisms, such as eating methyl mercury in contaminated fish.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Fri, 28 Jan 2011 08:00:53 -0500, "Wild_Bill"
wrote:

Yep.. Lots of alarmist stuff filling the airwaves/media these days, in those
nasty microwaves and dangerous poison-laced paper products used for printed
materials.

Now that you mention it, most of the lead in the environment came from
the lead used in newsprint and magazine ink. It was finally banned by
the EPA in 1985. In the form of printed ink, it's easily leached by
acidic water and ends up in the water supplies.

Incidentally, the mercury bottle is made from extremely heavy glass.
My guess is about 1/4" thick. I could probably drop the bottle and it
wouldn't break. However, the thin plastic cap is a substitute. The
heavy duty original broke long ago and was replaced by an inferior
substitute.

I fill compelled to add a (personal view, based in reality) reminder/wakeup
that many of the materials considered to be extremely hazardous or
potentially deadly, began as materials that were definitely harmful to work
around for *years/decades* without proper personal protection.

I used to make PCB boards at a small electronics manufactory in the
1970's. Washing our hands with trichloroethylene was common. Of the
3 people that worked this way, two have experienced some form of liver
damage. I was the lucky one. I guess we learn from experience.

Dust control, fume extraction and other precautions were simply often
neglect of employers to properly protect workers from years of long term
exposure.

Yep. We learn from our mistakes (if we survive). The problem is with
the converse. If we have a history of successful and survivable
exposure and use of some product or chemical, there often emerges a
person or group advocating bans and regulations for dubious reasons.
Profitable litigation and settlements seems to be the current fashion.
Despite years of statistically significant data on exposure, one
marginal incident is sufficient to cast suspicion and possibly
precipitate a ban.



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Wild_Bill" wrote in
:

I haven't seen a hot/warm CFL burst (yet), but I've had 3 of 'em start
to strobe, and then the glass spiral tubes got very hot, and may have
broken by themselves, but I was present each time, and shut them off.

I'm no specialist, but spilling cold mercury may not be the same as
releasing hot mercury vapor.. although I'm fairly certain that avoiding
either exposure is a good idea.

Hot implies ALL the mercury present is going to be in the form of vapor.
Since, at room temperature, mercury has a significant vapor pressure, it is
unlikely that any will condense, you will be receive maximum exposure
rapidly.

The hazard is acute mercury poisoning.

Hold your breath, evacuate the room(s or area).
With good ventilation, airing out the room would probably be all that is
necessary and the proper response.

If you inhaled any of the vapor, get to an emergency room so that they can
test for and treat you for acute mercury poisoning.

When I was a college student studying chemistry, one of my fellow students
was exposed to a large dose of mercury vapor when an experiment left over a
Bunsen burner generated mercury vapor in the lab he was working along in.
(Yeah, he should not have been alone and the people heating the mercuric
chloride solution should have turned off their burner when they left the
lab).

He was found crawling out of the lab, taken to the hospital and treated by
IV injection of chelating agents that removed the mercury from his system.
He survived.

The treatment was extremely painful. He would have died without it.

'Cool' mercury presents a different hazard: accumulation of mercury in your
system due to long term exposure.

A few drops spilled in the corner of the room where you work will evaporate
slowly and be accumulated in your system, causing mercury poisoning.

Removal of ALL spilled mercury is NECESSARY and requires careful clean up
because it likes to break up into extremely small droplets and they can
splash long distances.


And as was mentioned, long tubes weren't ever scrutinized as much, and
look how many decades they have been used in massive quantities.
Also, I believe that mercury was present in early latex paints, intended
to replace the lead paints as a safer solution.

--
Cheers,
WB
.............


"bob urz" wrote in message
...
http://www.epa.gov/cfl/cflcleanup.html

bob

bz wrote:
cut
A few drops spilled in the corner of the room where you work will evaporate
slowly and be accumulated in your system, causing mercury poisoning.

Removal of ALL spilled mercury is NECESSARY and requires careful clean up
because it likes to break up into extremely small droplets and they can
splash long distances.
Hm... According to your theory I should have been dead
already 5 times over.
I have to disappoint you, still alive(67) and going strong.

Sjouke Burry wrote in
:

bz wrote:
cut
A few drops spilled in the corner of the room where you work will
evaporate slowly and be accumulated in your system, causing mercury
poisoning.

Removal of ALL spilled mercury is NECESSARY and requires careful clean
up because it likes to break up into extremely small droplets and they
can splash long distances.
Hm... According to your theory I should have been dead
already 5 times over.
I have to disappoint you, still alive(67) and going strong.

Depends on the ventilation in the area where you work and the amount of
time you spend there.

Also, you are unlikely to die of chronic mercury poisoning.

Do you have any of these symptoms?

http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/symptoms.html

bz wrote:
Sjouke Burry wrote in
:

bz wrote:
cut
A few drops spilled in the corner of the room where you work will
evaporate slowly and be accumulated in your system, causing mercury
poisoning.

Removal of ALL spilled mercury is NECESSARY and requires careful clean
up because it likes to break up into extremely small droplets and they
can splash long distances.
Hm... According to your theory I should have been dead
already 5 times over.
I have to disappoint you, still alive(67) and going strong.

Depends on the ventilation in the area where you work and the amount of
time you spend there.

Also, you are unlikely to die of chronic mercury poisoning.

Do you have any of these symptoms?

http://www.mercurypoisoned.com/symptoms.html


No