Dave Platt wrote:
Were these seeds alive, or dead? How about the plants which sprouted
from them after the seeds were planted?

There is a date plant growing in Jerusalem at Hebrew U. The seed it came from
was found recently at Massada http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masada where it
was left from the Jewish resistance against Rome, 1930 or so years ago.

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
New word I coined 12/13/09, "Sub-Wikipedia" adj, describing knowledge or
understanding, as in he has a sub-wikipedia understanding of the situation.
i.e possessing less facts or information than can be found in the Wikipedia.

Dave Platt wrote:

In article ,
GregS wrote:

Once they are picked, they are dead. They get no water or nutrients
to continue growing.


Funny how potatoes and onions sprount in the fridg. They
may slow down but are not dead. They are officially dead if they dry out
or are consumed by mold.

Or, consider the "Resurrection fern" (Polypodium polypodioides).
Pick it, let it dry out, and it shrivels up, losing up to about 3/4 of
their internal moisture during natural dry spells (and up to 95% or
more under experimental conditions). The cell walls fold up, it
ceases metabilizing... is it dead?

Put it back in water, several years later... and 24 hours later it
will have rehydrated itself, turned green, and it's growing healthily
once again... is it alive?

Or, for a more common example: take seeds. I've got over a dozen
healthy tomato seedlings growing outside, about to be transplanted
into the garden. Most of them were started in February, from seeds I
saved from a previous generation of open-pollenated tomato plants...
back in 1991! They've been in the freezer for almost 20 years, well
dried and then frozen... and I got about 80% germination rates for
most of the varieties.

Were these seeds alive, or dead? How about the plants which sprouted
from them after the seeds were planted?


Sigh. That's how seeds work. Try letting them start growing, then
dry them out and see what happens.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

GregS wrote:

In article , "Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

GregS wrote:

In article , "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

GregS wrote:

Heating food can make it taste damm good.
It usually makes eating dead animal meat more tolerable.


You prefer your meat still be alive?

A fresh kill might be considered live.


I wouldn't. It no longer has blood flowing, or a heart beating.


When I say its dead, is it not dead ?
I always like to stir up some thought. I eat meat.
Many nutritionists stress eating live plants.
Plans food is alive. Would you eat dead plants?


Once they are picked, they are dead. They get no water or nutrients
to continue growing.

Funny how potatoes and onions sprount in the fridg. They
may slow down but are not dead. They are officially dead if they dry out
or are consumed by mold.

They develop 'eyes' which feed on the potato or onion to survive.


--
Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!'

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Sigh. That's how seeds work.

I know, I know.

Try letting them start growing, then
dry them out and see what happens.

But, as with the resurrection fern (which has spores rather than true
seeds), the plant is certainly "alive" by a useful definition, even
after it has passed the point at which it might conventionally be
considered "dead".

My intent was to address the claim that an earlier poster made, that
picked vegetables are "dead" because they no longer have a source of
water and nutrients.

My point (which I should perhaps have made more explicitly) was that
the question of "alive" and "dead" is not so simply defined, even with
respect to plants. It isn't even always a clear question with respect
to animals... some simple animals can estivate, dehydrating themselves
into a low-water state and surviving extensive periods of drought with
their metabolisms stopped, and then restarting when rehydrated. Other
animals can survive when frozen solid.

Are these plants, and animals "dead", when their metabolisms have been
shut down due to dehydration or cold? Are they "alive", or only
"potentially alive" based on what happens in the future?

To my mind, an onion or other vegetable which is picked, and sitting
in the refrigerator, is usually still alive. Its roots may be gone,
it may be slowly dehydrating, but its cells are still metabilizing
(respiring), it's still converting stored fuel to energy (albeit at a
low rate), and it's often capable of re-sprouting and re-rooting
itself if taken out of the fridge and set into soil. Why then would
one say that it is "dead"?

--
Dave Platt AE6EO
Friends of Jade Warrior home page: http://www.radagast.org/jade-warrior
I do _not_ wish to receive unsolicited commercial email, and I will
boycott any company which has the gall to send me such ads!

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Apr 2010 09:45:17 +0100, "Arfa Daily"
wrote:

So general genetics don't
seem to have been a major player for coronary heart disease, in the case
of
his family, although obviously, it's a complex subject, and quirks of fate
in these respects, clearly happen.

Agreed.

Interesting though, how closely he seems to parallel you.

Well, it is possible that a career in RF causes so much stress from
overwork and company politics that a heart attack is probable.
However, that's conjecture.

I wonder if your
other radio club members who died, were 'casual' radio users just from a
ham
perspective, or professionals working around this stuff for 10 hours a day
for many years.

Mostly casual but there were two broadcast engineers among the mix.
One of these died from liver cancer, the other from a nasty virus that
literally ate his heart. If you want to get some real RF exposure,
there's nothing like working in a broadcast studio (near the xmitter
tower), or on a mountain top radio site, or at a military radar
station. I had a few years of such exposure back in the 1970's, but
mostly, it's been ocassional yacking on VHF/UHF with minimal power.
Basically, the sample of local hams that have died is not sufficient
to get a decent correlation. The only factoid that're really relevent
is that none of them died from coronary issues. Although I have some
obvious coronary problems, I expect to meet my end in the supermarket
parking lot, run over by some lunatic driving diagonally across the
lanes, thinking all the rules of the road are suspended in the parking
lot.

I wonder if there's any research or collated statistics on
this out on the big bad interweb ?

Actually, yes. There was a study about 10 years ago attempting to
correlate cancers with RF exposure using hams as a population sample.
The results indicated that there was a greater probability of
contracting leukemia if one was involved in ham radio, than the
control group (non-hams). The study was horribly flawed, both in it's
data gathering and sampling methods. I'm too lazy to find it.
http://www.hamradio-online.com/faq4.html
Other than mess, I don't know of any studies.

45 years ago, when I first got into ham radio, I had a full head of
hair, a positive attitude, a steady hand, and a fairly decent bank
account. After 45 years of RF exposure, the hear is almost gone, my
attitude is very pessimistic, my hand shakes, and my bank account is
depleted. Obvious, all this must be caused by RF exposure.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060


Now *that* bit sounds just like me ... :-)

Arfa

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 10:25:10 -0500, Jeffrey D Angus
wrote:

I still have my hair, but have followed a similar path.

Save me some of the hair. In about 10 years, I'll need a toupe.

I attribute it to customers that think I should pay them
for the privilege of repairing their equipment.

I do my best to turn them into repeat customers. I usually let them
cheat me on the small stuff. However, when it comes time for them to
need me for the big stuff (i.e. crash recovery because they were too
busy to do backups), I soak them for everything I can get. Think of
the small stuff as "bait".

Or for
the other parasites in my life that thought, "He has some-
thing, that I should have instead."

That reminds me... I'll ship your Symbol junk sometime next week. I'm
too busy seperating my customers from their money.

Incidentally, something more to worry about:
"Why are so many would-be terrorists engineers?"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1149370.html

Jeff

Jeff 1.0.0 beta

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Incidentally, something more to worry about:
"Why are so many would-be terrorists engineers?"
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1149370.html

Before I read the essay, my answer was "Because most engineers are political
and social conservatives" (in the context of their own societies). His
analysis is basically the same thing, but deeper and more nuanced.

Scientists and engineers are often remarkably parochial. Their training
doesn't seem to expand their thinking. Rather, it contracts it.

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 20:17:39 GMT, (Mark Zenier)
wrote:

And if you google "french frys cancer" you get refered to Acrylamide.

Anti-Cancer Drugs in French Fries: Good Idea?
http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/2009/12/23/anti-cancer_drugs_in_french_fries_good_idea.php

Most of the links I read quoted the original 2002 study in Sweden that
eventually showed *NO* correlation between acrylamide and cancer in
rodents.

"Further, the International Journal of Cancer found no link
between acrylamide consumption and cancer of the oral cavity,
pharynx, esophagus, larynx, large bowel, breast and ovaries."

However, there are plenty of dietary reasons to justify avoiding fried
foods.


--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

In article nc, "Paul Hovnanian P.E." wrote:
Jeff Liebermann wrote:

On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 20:17:39 GMT, (Mark Zenier)
wrote:

And if you google "french frys cancer" you get refered to Acrylamide.

Anti-Cancer Drugs in French Fries: Good Idea?

http://www.diet-blog.com/archives/20...n_french_fries
_good_idea.php

Most of the links I read quoted the original 2002 study in Sweden that
eventually showed *NO* correlation between acrylamide and cancer in
rodents.

"Further, the International Journal of Cancer found no link
between acrylamide consumption and cancer of the oral cavity,
pharynx, esophagus, larynx, large bowel, breast and ovaries."

However, there are plenty of dietary reasons to justify avoiding fried
foods.

Better to feed the fries to the rats and then eat the rats.


I don't know if its still true. but I like to buy Ca. oranges vs Florida since
Florida put cancer causing orange dye on the fruit.
I sometime eat skins.

Ca. seems knowlegable about that. One of those Ca. things.
Ca. did not put any dye on the orange, but I have got some real orange oranges lately.


greg

On Thu, 22 Apr 2010 10:54:10 -0700, "Paul Hovnanian P.E."
wrote:

You hold him down while I feed this stuff to him. Then we'll see if its safe
or not.
;-)

No need. I have a microwaved bacon and rabbit food omelette, with
greasy fries, last night for a combination breakfast, lunch, and
dinner. I'll let you know if I'm still alive tomorrow.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558