I'm trying to fix this European ELBE E12D chassis tv. The inital
problem was this:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/...3/DSCF8209.JPG
http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/...3/DSCF8210.JPG

As you can see, there is a venetian blind effect, and considerable
foldover. The voltages around the IC seemed normal. It looked like a
pumpup cap failure, but a change of several caps didn't alter
anything, so I got a new TDA 8178S frame chip. that produced only the
usual horizontal line. A TDA 8170 (which was in the schematic for the
set) also did the same. Re fitting the original brings back the
initial fault.

Is this likely to be a case of requiring the original TDA8178 part or
could there be somethign else I should pursue?
-B

On Nov 26, 4:26*am, b wrote:
I'm trying to fix this European ELBE E12D chassis tv. The inital
problem was this:

http://www.fileden.com/files/2007/6/...3/DSCF8210.JPG

As you can see, there is a venetian blind effect, and considerable
foldover. The voltages around the IC seemed normal. It looked like a
pumpup cap failure, but a change of several caps didn't alter
anything, so I got a new TDA 8178S frame chip. that produced only the
usual horizontal line. A TDA 8170 (which was in the schematic for the
set) also did the same. Re fitting the original brings back the
initial fault.

Is this likely to be a case of requiring the original TDA8178 part or
could there be somethign else I should pursue?
-B

IMO you have some really bad capacitors in that vertical output. An
ESR meter, even a modest one like this

http://www.matelectronics.com/acatal..._Other_61.html

(scroll down to IN CIRCUIT CAPACITANCE TESTER)

will give you good info but keep in mind some models have large values
(1000uF) in the feedback loop. Even a very mild deterioration can
cause significant linearity issues. The tester _will_ show it as not
as good as a new one but still seems OK. Don't be fooled.

G²

Got the schematic.
measured the voltages around IC 301 TDA 8178S, All seems Ok except pin
3, with about 12v, (1.4v on schematic) and pin 5 with about 18v.
(13.8v)

Already changed c304 103k, 25v rectifier D301 1n4001. I had previously
changed C308 2200UF and C310 220UF, no change.

Before I fit the new IC, I would like to rule out the possibility of
something amiss on the circuit. Something does not seem right with
those voltages, but I don't know if it is caused by :
a) faulty TDA8178S IC (leaky)
b) misprint on schematic
c) the fact the ic fitted - tda8178s - differs from that specified on
schematic (tda 8170)
d) some problem in the vertical (frame) circuit

Any advice gratefully received. I am currently trying to upload the
extract form the schematic, will post link here when I do.

I am currently trying to upload the
extract form the schematic, will post link here when I do.

see here
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a1fb...E_E14_vert.jpg

On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:58:52 -0800 (PST), b
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am currently trying to upload the
extract form the schematic, will post link here when I do.

see here
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a1fb...E_E14_vert.jpg

Have you changed the electrolytic capacitor on the 25V rail near the
FBT???

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On 1 dic, 12:30, Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:58:52 -0800 (PST), b
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am currently trying to upload the
extract form the schematic, will post link here when I do.

see here
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a1fb...E_E14_vert.jpg

Have you changed the electrolytic capacitor on the 25V rail near the
FBT???


yeah, c427 1000uF. Picture still distorted.
I think I will just take a chance and change the IC again.
-B

On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:05:54 -0800 (PST), b
put finger to keyboard and composed:

On 1 dic, 12:30, Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:58:52 -0800 (PST), b
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am currently trying to upload the
extract form the schematic, will post link here when I do.

see here
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a1fb...E_E14_vert.jpg

Have you changed the electrolytic capacitor on the 25V rail near the
FBT???


yeah, c427 1000uF. Picture still distorted.
I think I will just take a chance and change the IC again.
-B

Why not break out the oscilloscope and take some measurements?

I'd look at the input at R303 (not IC pin 1), and I'd compare it
against the signal at the current sense resistor, R310. AFAICT, both
should be sawtooths (sawteeth?).

BTW, I believe R310 should be a 1R5 resistor, not 1M5 as shown in the
diagram.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:05:54 -0800 (PST), b
put finger to keyboard and composed:

On 1 dic, 12:30, Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:58:52 -0800 (PST), b
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am currently trying to upload the
extract form the schematic, will post link here when I do.

see here
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a1fb...E_E14_vert.jpg

Have you changed the electrolytic capacitor on the 25V rail near the
FBT???


yeah, c427 1000uF. Picture still distorted.
I think I will just take a chance and change the IC again.
-B

Why not break out the oscilloscope and take some measurements?

I'd look at the input at R303 (not IC pin 1), and I'd compare it
against the signal at the current sense resistor, R310. AFAICT, both
should be sawtooths (sawteeth?).

BTW, I believe R310 should be a 1R5 resistor, not 1M5 as shown in the
diagram.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

On 1 dic, 21:45, Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Tue, 1 Dec 2009 06:05:54 -0800 (PST), b
put finger to keyboard and composed:



On 1 dic, 12:30, Franc Zabkar wrote:
On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 09:58:52 -0800 (PST), b
put finger to keyboard and composed:

I am currently trying to upload the
extract form the schematic, will post link here when I do.

see here
http://www.filefactory.com/file/a1fb...E_E14_vert.jpg

Have you changed the electrolytic capacitor on the 25V rail near the
FBT???

yeah, c427 1000uF. Picture still distorted.
I think I will just take a chance and change the IC again.
-B

Why not break out the oscilloscope and take some measurements?

I'd look at the input at R303 (not IC pin 1), and I'd compare it
against the signal at the current sense resistor, R310. AFAICT, both
should be sawtooths (sawteeth?).

BTW, I believe R310 should be a 1R5 resistor, not 1M5 as shown in the
diagram.

- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email.

don't have a scope here (yet) so can't do much else.
today I changed the IC again and was rewarded with the horizontal
line. I don't understand why the original IC produces at least a
distorted pic but no replacement has produced anything.
In ahy case I'm losing patience with this set and have other things
piling up, so I suppose it's time to dump it
thanks all
B