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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Hi folks,
I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid |
#2
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Reid Priedhorsky wrote in message
news Hi folks, I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid Have the keys failed roughly in order of letter/function frequency or did a number of them fail about the same time ? If discrete keyswitches then you could swap good, rarely used, for bad. Anyone ever spilt liquid , even sweat of the brow down under the keys? -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Reid Priedhorsky wrote:
Hi folks, I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid Others might give you better detail on repairing the keyboard; but I'd suggest eBay as a source for a replacement.... jak |
#4
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Meat Plow writes:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:09:10 -0500, Reid Priedhorsky wrote: Hi folks, I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid Typically the switches in a keyboard are a rubber dome (for lack of a better word) on the bottom of the key with a conductive pad in the middle and a contact area on a pc board for all the keys. Unless you have something very unique there are no replaceable switches. Rubber dome or other capacitive sensor on modern keyboards with no tactile feel. Actual mechanical switches on my favorite Northgate and clone KBs. In the latter case, the individual switches can be unsoldered, popped out, and replaced easily. In many cases, they can even be disassembled and cleaned. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
#5
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
On 8 Jun, 22:14, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Meat Plow writes: On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:09:10 -0500, Reid Priedhorsky wrote: Hi folks, I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid Typically the switches in a keyboard are a rubber dome (for lack of a better word) on the bottom of the key with a conductive pad in the middle and a contact area on a pc board for all the keys. Unless you have something very unique there are no replaceable switches. Rubber dome or other capacitive sensor on modern keyboards with no tactile feel. Actual mechanical switches on my favorite Northgate and clone KBs. In the latter case, the individual switches can be unsoldered, popped out, and replaced easily. In many cases, they can even be disassembled and cleaned. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ:http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents:http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ:http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites:http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. You can buy a new keyboard for a few pounds ! Why are you messing around with this ancient one? |
#6
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Marra writes:
On 8 Jun, 22:14, Sam Goldwasser wrote: Meat Plow writes: On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:09:10 -0500, Reid Priedhorsky wrote: Hi folks, I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid Typically the switches in a keyboard are a rubber dome (for lack of a better word) on the bottom of the key with a conductive pad in the middle and a contact area on a pc board for all the keys. Unless you have something very unique there are no replaceable switches. Rubber dome or other capacitive sensor on modern keyboards with no tactile feel. Actual mechanical switches on my favorite Northgate and clone KBs. In the latter case, the individual switches can be unsoldered, popped out, and replaced easily. In many cases, they can even be disassembled and cleaned. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ:http://www.repairfaq.org/ You can buy a new keyboard for a few pounds ! Why are you messing around with this ancient one? Perhaps if you ever had used a KB with good tactile feedback you would not be so quick to throw it away. I have a pile of modern KBs I'd happily give away. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
#7
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Marra writes: On 8 Jun, 22:14, Sam Goldwasser wrote: Meat Plow writes: On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:09:10 -0500, Reid Priedhorsky wrote: Hi folks, I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid Typically the switches in a keyboard are a rubber dome (for lack of a better word) on the bottom of the key with a conductive pad in the middle and a contact area on a pc board for all the keys. Unless you have something very unique there are no replaceable switches. Rubber dome or other capacitive sensor on modern keyboards with no tactile feel. Actual mechanical switches on my favorite Northgate and clone KBs. In the latter case, the individual switches can be unsoldered, popped out, and replaced easily. In many cases, they can even be disassembled and cleaned. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ:http://www.repairfaq.org/ You can buy a new keyboard for a few pounds ! Why are you messing around with this ancient one? Perhaps if you ever had used a KB with good tactile feedback you would not be so quick to throw it away. I have a pile of modern KBs I'd happily give away. Hear, hear! I'm a big fan of the old AT style 'clickity-clacks'. I dig through every pile of thrift store keyboards, yard sales etc; to pick up every one I can find. So far, I've not been 'without', but I dread the day when I have to shell out for a new one (I understand they're still available). I happily eschew the modern special-key functionality available (including the now-standard 'Windows' key) in return for a keyboard which *feels* like a keyboard. jak |
#8
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
For those of us who like tactile feedback, here's a keyboard that comes
highly recommended: http://www.duntemann.com/january2007.htm#01-23-2007 |
#9
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Meat Plow writes:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:14:09 -0400, Sam Goldwasser wrote: Meat Plow writes: On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:09:10 -0500, Reid Priedhorsky wrote: Hi folks, I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid Typically the switches in a keyboard are a rubber dome (for lack of a better word) on the bottom of the key with a conductive pad in the middle and a contact area on a pc board for all the keys. Unless you have something very unique there are no replaceable switches. Rubber dome or other capacitive sensor on modern keyboards with no tactile feel. Actual mechanical switches on my favorite Northgate and clone KBs. In the latter case, the individual switches can be unsoldered, popped out, and replaced easily. In many cases, they can even be disassembled and cleaned. Yes I suppose the kind that have the little metal plate on top do indeed solder to the board. Where do you get replacements? How good are your eyes? Only keyboard I ever fixed was one of those Dvorak jobs for a gal at a non profit org that I used to do some work for. Actually, there are two through-hole pins on each switch, which then simply pop out. I usually just take switches from locations that are rarely used like F12 , or my parts KB. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
#10
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Meat Plow writes:
On Sat, 09 Jun 2007 08:18:57 -0400, Sam Goldwasser wrote: ubject: rebuilding a computer keyboard From: Sam Goldwasser Newsgroups: sci.electronics.repair Date: 09 Jun 2007 08:18:57 -0400 Meat Plow writes: On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:14:09 -0400, Sam Goldwasser wrote: Meat Plow writes: On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 12:09:10 -0500, Reid Priedhorsky wrote: Hi folks, I have a keyboard which I love, and which is beginning to wear out. (It's a DataDesk SmartBoard.) I am trying to get a hold of a replacement, but the company has been apparently imploding for years -- none of the linked distributors have it (except perhaps a company in Canada), the web ordering system has been "under construction" since 2001 -- and now phone calls are unanswered, with a message saying "... until May 1, we are relocating...". Anyway, I can't imagine going back to a different keyboard, so I wonder if it would be possible to rebuild the one I've got. The symptoms are that various keys are no longer reliable, giving zero or many logical keypresses for one physical keypress. Different keys are differently reliable. Some keys feel a little wonky too, esp. the spacebar. I was thinking I might disassemble it, desolder all the keyswitches, and replace them with new ones. Is this feasible? If so, is there a better source for keyswitches other than another keyboard? Or is there a better strategy? I'm no electronics expert, but I've managed to successfully build a couple of simple battery-powered switching power supplies, including soldering an SOIC-package IC. Please let me know what questions you have or what additional information would be helpful. (Alternately, a reliable source to buy one of these suckers would be very helpful!) Thanks in advance, Reid Typically the switches in a keyboard are a rubber dome (for lack of a better word) on the bottom of the key with a conductive pad in the middle and a contact area on a pc board for all the keys. Unless you have something very unique there are no replaceable switches. Rubber dome or other capacitive sensor on modern keyboards with no tactile feel. Actual mechanical switches on my favorite Northgate and clone KBs. In the latter case, the individual switches can be unsoldered, popped out, and replaced easily. In many cases, they can even be disassembled and cleaned. Yes I suppose the kind that have the little metal plate on top do indeed solder to the board. Where do you get replacements? How good are your eyes? Only keyboard I ever fixed was one of those Dvorak jobs for a gal at a non profit org that I used to do some work for. Actually, there are two through-hole pins on each switch, which then simply pop out. I usually just take switches from locations that are rarely used like F12 , or my parts KB. Makes sense until you need F12 Usually, they are flakey, not totally dead. So, maybe a bit of a stutter. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
#11
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:14:09 -0400, Sam Goldwasser wrote:
Meat Plow writes: Typically the switches in a keyboard are a rubber dome (for lack of a better word) on the bottom of the key with a conductive pad in the middle and a contact area on a pc board for all the keys. Unless you have something very unique there are no replaceable switches. Rubber dome or other capacitive sensor on modern keyboards with no tactile feel. Actual mechanical switches on my favorite Northgate and clone KBs. In the latter case, the individual switches can be unsoldered, popped out, and replaced easily. In many cases, they can even be disassembled and cleaned. The keyswitches are small black cubes around 1/2" on a side, with a little plunger on top that the key cap fits onto. They can indeed be disassembled and cleaned, but there's a number of very tiny parts inside, including a very tiny coil spring, and it's extremely difficult to put them back together. (No sign of any rubber domes.) So, I think replacement is the only reasonable option. It sounds like the strategy is to find one or a few garage sale keyboards that seem to have the right kind of switch, and scavenge keyswitches from them. Question: Are all the switches in a keyboard uniform? In other words, should I use a rarely-used keyswitch from the donor keyboard for heavily-used keys like Backspace, because they'll be less worn, or should I use e.g. the Backspace key from the donor keyboard for Backspace, because it's a tougher keyswitch? Thanks again, Reid |
#12
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 14:29:46 -0700, Marra wrote:
You can buy a new keyboard for a few pounds ! Why are you messing around with this ancient one? Without attempting to sound snarky... in this case, you get what you pay for. This keyboard costs over $100 (£50), and it's worth every penny. Nice tactile feel aside, what is really great is the arrangement of keys: instead of the rows being staggered, they form a grid -- i.e., the keys are where your fingers want to go, not 1/4" off to the side. Photos: http://www.datadesktech.com/media_photo_base.html Take care, Reid |
#13
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
Reid Priedhorsky writes:
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 17:14:09 -0400, Sam Goldwasser wrote: Meat Plow writes: Typically the switches in a keyboard are a rubber dome (for lack of a better word) on the bottom of the key with a conductive pad in the middle and a contact area on a pc board for all the keys. Unless you have something very unique there are no replaceable switches. Rubber dome or other capacitive sensor on modern keyboards with no tactile feel. Actual mechanical switches on my favorite Northgate and clone KBs. In the latter case, the individual switches can be unsoldered, popped out, and replaced easily. In many cases, they can even be disassembled and cleaned. The keyswitches are small black cubes around 1/2" on a side, with a little plunger on top that the key cap fits onto. They can indeed be disassembled and cleaned, but there's a number of very tiny parts inside, including a very tiny coil spring, and it's extremely difficult to put them back together. (No sign of any rubber domes.) So, I think replacement is the only reasonable option. It sounds like the strategy is to find one or a few garage sale keyboards that seem to have the right kind of switch, and scavenge keyswitches from them. Question: Are all the switches in a keyboard uniform? In other words, should I use a rarely-used keyswitch from the donor keyboard for heavily-used keys like Backspace, because they'll be less worn, or should I use e.g. the Backspace key from the donor keyboard for Backspace, because it's a tougher keyswitch? In the KBs I'm referring to, the switches are all the same, but some of the sttictly mechanical stuff for the spacebar and return keys differ. --- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/ Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/ +Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://www.repairfaq.org/sam/lasersam.htm | Mirror Sites: http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_mirror.html Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header above is ignored unless my full name AND either lasers or electronics is included in the subject line. Or, you can contact me via the Feedback Form in the FAQs. |
#14
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
On Fri, 08 Jun 2007 22:41:01 -0500, jakdedert
put finger to keyboard and composed: I'm a big fan of the old AT style 'clickity-clacks'. I dig through every pile of thrift store keyboards, yard sales etc; to pick up every one I can find. So far, I've not been 'without', but I dread the day when I have to shell out for a new one (I understand they're still available). I happily eschew the modern special-key functionality available (including the now-standard 'Windows' key) in return for a keyboard which *feels* like a keyboard. jak Be aware that the presence of tactile feedback doesn't necessary imply that the key switches are "mechanical". You could still have a "membrane" keyboard with a "buckling spring" mechanism to provide the "clicky" feel. See http://park16.wakwak.com/~ex4/kb/tec...ngspring_e.htm "IBM 5576-A01,003 and Enhanced 101 model M generate clicking sounds when we type. These keyboards actually use 'Membrane switches'. But it seems that many people misunderstand that these keyboards use so-called 'Mechanical switches', so I decided to let people know the truth about 'buckling keyboards'". - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
#15
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rebuilding a computer keyboard
On 09 Jun 2007 10:20:52 -0400, Sam Goldwasser
put finger to keyboard and composed: Meat Plow writes: I usually just take switches from locations that are rarely used like F12 , or my parts KB. Makes sense until you need F12 Usually, they are flakey, not totally dead. So, maybe a bit of a stutter. Why not use a key which is essentially duplicated, such as one of the keys in the numeric keypad? - Franc Zabkar -- Please remove one 'i' from my address when replying by email. |
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